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Caravans: How often (frequency) can you find and engage one?

RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
" The caravan system is designed to be initiated by the player. Which means, information of the caravans launch time and route, should be a closely guarded secret. Routes will also be diverse, and the world is large, so it might behoove you to scout the route ahead before a launch. Fast travel in our game is also limited, which means unless the guild had knowledge of your plans before hand, it is likely that they will be unable to organize and travel to a location. As far as mass guilds securing trade routes, there is always a bigger fish in the pond. Also caravans will have limitations on carrying capacity and launch windows that will segment mulitiple caravans by several minutes, which would space out the caravans, making it difficult to "zerg" a defense.[12] – Steven Sharif"

So my question is how often do you think there will be caravans in transit? As stated in the quote above they might be difficult to detect if not ready for them. Will there be major downtime between caravans?
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Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    "At the end of each week leading up to a castle siege there is a period of time in the weekend where NPC generated caravans start moving toward one of the castle nodes carrying castle taxes from the nodes that fall under the castle's purview.[27][36]
    During this time it is incumbent upon the owning guild, its allies, and citizens of the nodes to escort these caravans to the castle node.[27]
    The enemies of the guild have incentive to attack these caravans to reap the rewards from the caravan and to sabotage the tax collection, which will reduce the defensive capability of the castle nodes and hence the castle itself.[27][20]
    Citizens of nodes that fall under the purview of the castle are automatically registered as defenders of these caravans and may not participate in attacks against them.[27]"

    ---https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Castle_sieges
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Dygz wrote: »
    "At the end of each week leading up to a castle siege there is a period of time in the weekend where NPC generated caravans start moving toward one of the castle nodes carrying castle taxes from the nodes that fall under the castle's purview.[27][36]
    During this time it is incumbent upon the owning guild, its allies, and citizens of the nodes to escort these caravans to the castle node.[27]
    The enemies of the guild have incentive to attack these caravans to reap the rewards from the caravan and to sabotage the tax collection, which will reduce the defensive capability of the castle nodes and hence the castle itself.[27][20]
    Citizens of nodes that fall under the purview of the castle are automatically registered as defenders of these caravans and may not participate in attacks against them.[27]"

    ---https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Castle_sieges

    Yep, that is one type of caravan. So that will be once a week for that one.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    5x per week because there are 5 Castles per server.
  • Once the economy gets going there will be caravans all the time...The idea is gathers will pick up stuff and place it in a node. A caravan will be needed to move it to a place to process(freehold or node with processing). On a mount it takes 3.5 mins to travel from one node to the next. A caravan would be slower and you might not be going directly to the next node. Then from wherever you process, you will need to take is somewhere you can craft. Last, will be to the market. All of these goods will need to be transported. It will happen all the time because this will be the way to achieve maximum profit. Even if you take the min-maxers out, you will have to move goods around to some extent to do it on any sort of scale.
  • SpifSpif Member
    I look forward to seeing their implementation of a Caravan event. This is the one case where the defenders should have several large advantages, because the attackers are risking very little. Examples that may work:
    1. Defenders can rez on the Caravan (respawn delay is probably necessary). Attackers need to be rezzed by a player or use a world rez point that may not be close by
    2. Attackers should have to destroy defenses (destroy = ?interact?, this can't be based on weapon damage) for several minutes at least, before they can have a chance to destroy something like a storage compartment and get loot to drop.
    3. The defenders should be able to repair that defense if they manage to clear the area of attackers.
    4. Mounted weapons options for defenders
    5. Armored beasts of burden so it takes longer to stop the caravan
    6. Cap on the # of attackers relative to the # of defenders? I'm not sure about this one. It just doesn't make any real world sense, but it sure would suck for your caravan with a full group on defense to run into a random world boss raid group or streamer zerg.
    7. Joining the defense could be invite only and the caravan leader can kick you.
    8. Looting caravan items is a FFA, and the attackers can fight each other for loot in some way (possibly after dropping the caravan event, anyone who looted items stays purple for 5 minutes?)
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I expect (without confirmation) that caravans will be parts of quests and of character advancement as well as a very efficient way to make money.

    You may need to do personal caravans not only for optional quests but also for advancements in certain organizations (like the Merchants' Society) or to obtain your subclass. Nodes may have to do caravans to complete advanced buildings. Guilds may have to do quests to advance in rank or obtain certain skills or to have a guild hall. Crafters, gatherers and others may need to complete caravans (or quests including caravans) to learn advanced skills for weapon or armor crafting.

    I suspect we will be given many motivations, and strong motivations, to complete caravans successfully. Some of these we may find out about in A2 and Betas, many others might be revealed only after release. So, I expect there will be lots of caravans running. However, given the world size and geography, finding the caravans is an entirely different challenge. I remember there was a thread about that back in April 2021.
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    " The caravan system is designed to be initiated by the player. Which means, information of the caravans launch time and route, should be a closely guarded secret. Routes will also be diverse, and the world is large, so it might behoove you to scout the route ahead before a launch. Fast travel in our game is also limited, which means unless the guild had knowledge of your plans before hand, it is likely that they will be unable to organize and travel to a location."

    So this I ask: Will we be able to find most caravans? Do we need spies in opposing guilds to tell us the routes? As stated if we do not know when a caravan is launched it is likely we will not be able to intercept it. Maybe some people will just lay in wait in perpetuality for one to come down the trade route. Who knows.
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  • Ravicus wrote: »
    " The caravan system is designed to be initiated by the player. Which means, information of the caravans launch time and route, should be a closely guarded secret. Routes will also be diverse, and the world is large, so it might behoove you to scout the route ahead before a launch. Fast travel in our game is also limited, which means unless the guild had knowledge of your plans before hand, it is likely that they will be unable to organize and travel to a location."

    So this I ask: Will we be able to find most caravans? Do we need spies in opposing guilds to tell us the routes? As stated if we do not know when a caravan is launched it is likely we will not be able to intercept it. Maybe some people will just lay in wait in perpetuality for one to come down the trade route. Who knows.

    I like it the way it is described. It is up to you to figure out routes or just stumble upon a caravan by chance, and then alert people if you plan on intercepting. Sounds fun!
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ravicus wrote: »
    " The caravan system is designed to be initiated by the player. Which means, information of the caravans launch time and route, should be a closely guarded secret. Routes will also be diverse, and the world is large, so it might behoove you to scout the route ahead before a launch. Fast travel in our game is also limited, which means unless the guild had knowledge of your plans before hand, it is likely that they will be unable to organize and travel to a location."

    So this I ask: Will we be able to find most caravans? Do we need spies in opposing guilds to tell us the routes? As stated if we do not know when a caravan is launched it is likely we will not be able to intercept it. Maybe some people will just lay in wait in perpetuality for one to come down the trade route. Who knows.

    I like it the way it is described. It is up to you to figure out routes or just stumble upon a caravan by chance, and then alert people if you plan on intercepting. Sounds fun!

    yes, I like the system as well. I'm just wondering if there will be much downtime between for pvp. Trying to figure out the workings of things in a broad sense :)
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited August 2023
    The frequency of a caravan isn't really something that wouldn't be able to have a figure placed on it, even once the game is live.

    How frequent caravans run is too dependent on where things are. If there is a smelter and blacksmith in the same node as an iron mine, then players can make finished products without needing a caravan for that iron.

    If those three things are all in different nodes, you now need two caravans just for the iron.

    The thing there is, it is entirely possible that any of those three things (mine, smelter, smith) could cease to exist in that node. Perhaps the mine has been exhausted, maybe a node war destroyed the Smith, or you purchased the freehold with a smelter in order to force people to get the iron out via caravan.

    In an attempt to as best answer your question as I can though, I wouldn't go expecting to be able to defeat a caravan a day. You may come across several per day, but most are likely to be so heavily protected that they arent worth attacking unless you happen to have your whole guild with you.
  • I know this will sound preposterous, but maybe the best way to get some caravan PvP action will be to join the defenders/escort side instead of looking around for one to attack.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Percimes wrote: »
    I know this will sound preposterous, but maybe the best way to get some caravan PvP action will be to join the defenders/escort side instead of looking around for one to attack.

    If everybody does that, there'll be nobody to defend against.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Percimes wrote: »
    I know this will sound preposterous, but maybe the best way to get some caravan PvP action will be to join the defenders/escort side instead of looking around for one to attack.

    If everybody does that, there'll be nobody to defend against.

    That's a big "if" considering the target audience. Technically possible, but quite unlikely.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Percimes wrote: »
    I know this will sound preposterous, but maybe the best way to get some caravan PvP action will be to join the defenders/escort side instead of looking around for one to attack.

    Ya, that is kind of the exact opposite of what I am asking in this thread :P I am kind of wanting to evaluate if there is a long wait between caravans and if there is downtime to finding and attacking them. If there is downtime it gives a chance for OWPVP. Layng in wait for a caravan that might not even happen seems like it could end up kind of boring. There might be multiple caravans all day but with no fast travel you most likely will not be able to intercept them. I wonder how many people will be flagged in the world for OWPVP or will they all be on the sea?
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited August 2023
    Sitting in wait for random caravans isn't really going to be a thing.

    Keep in mind, a caravan represents dozens of hours of player effort - expect it to be exponentially longer than that between caravans you successfully defeat.
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    Sitting in wait for random caravans isn't really going to be a thing.

    Keep in mind, a caravan represents dozens of hours of player effort - expect it to be exponentially longer than that between caravans you successfully defeat.

    Yep, I agree.
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  • daveywavey wrote: »
    Percimes wrote: »
    I know this will sound preposterous, but maybe the best way to get some caravan PvP action will be to join the defenders/escort side instead of looking around for one to attack.

    If everybody does that, there'll be nobody to defend against.

    I say to limit the number of defenders, that way people who miss out or are booted can jump onto the attacking side if they feel slighted :D
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  • CawwCaww Member
    AoC could do a generic system wide notice in chat stating something like "A caravan has left a node in the Riverlands" and give people a heads-up in a general fashion but not specific enough for the entire server to jump it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited August 2023
    Caww wrote: »
    AoC could do a generic system wide notice in chat stating something like "A caravan has left a node in the Riverlands" and give people a heads-up in a general fashion but not specific enough for the entire server to jump it.

    Nah, that's what spys are for.
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Caww wrote: »
    AoC could do a generic system wide notice in chat stating something like "A caravan has left a node in the Riverlands" and give people a heads-up in a general fashion but not specific enough for the entire server to jump it.

    Hehe that would be fun but can you imagine the PVE playerbase would go nuts. They want to get their resources home and safe :)7tcjm7sdxvny.jpg
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Caww wrote: »
    AoC could do a generic system wide notice in chat stating something like "A caravan has left a node in the Riverlands" and give people a heads-up in a general fashion but not specific enough for the entire server to jump it.
    "The caravan system is designed to be initiated by the player. Which means, information of the caravans launch time and route, should be a closely guarded secret. Routes will also be diverse, and the world is large, so it might behoove you to scout the route ahead before a launch."
    ---Steven
    https://discord.com/channels/256164085366915072/257283936756039680/258668016349347840

    Of course...
    Everything is subject to change.
  • I hope it is at least a weekly occurrence option.
  • RavicusRavicus Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    RazThemun wrote: »
    I hope it is at least a weekly occurrence option.

    I think it will be more often than just the weekends. People will need to move gathered supplies all the time. What I am wondering is if it will be worth it to be a pvp guild trying to attack caravans. The frequency, the ability to intercept, and so forth. I think A2 will provide many answers for this.
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  • RazThemunRazThemun Member
    edited August 2023
    "I think it will be more often than just the weekends. People will need to move gathered supplies all the time. What I am wondering is if it will be worth it to be a pvp guild trying to attack caravans. The frequency, the ability to intercept, and so forth. I think A2 will provide many answers for this."

    I would assume a guild could still function on that manner. As each node will likely have caravans running at different times. So Node A- may do a run Monday at 1:00. Node B- Tues 2:00. Node C- Weds 3:00. I doubt all nodes would have caravans going same day and time. So because there are so many nodes, I would assume there would be 3 or 4 you could realistically create drama for in disrupting their caravans as a guild.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Ravicus wrote: »
    RazThemun wrote: »
    I hope it is at least a weekly occurrence option.

    I think it will be more often than just the weekends. People will need to move gathered supplies all the time. What I am wondering is if it will be worth it to be a pvp guild trying to attack caravans. The frequency, the ability to intercept, and so forth. I think A2 will provide many answers for this.

    This is just opinion, but I do think this will be viable.

    The thing is, you won't just be waiting around for them.

    In order to do this, information is key. Bribes, spys and scouts will be your actual bread and butter activities, the PvP will likely be secondary to that.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    And Raz just gave me an idea...coordinate with nearby nodes to all run caravans at the same time (probably something like a Monday morning when player load is low). Doing that would increase the odds of a spy knowing of the caravans but each one might be individually safer since attackers would have difficulty hitting more than a small number.
  • tautau wrote: »
    And Raz just gave me an idea...coordinate with nearby nodes to all run caravans at the same time (probably something like a Monday morning when player load is low). Doing that would increase the odds of a spy knowing of the caravans but each one might be individually safer since attackers would have difficulty hitting more than a small number.

    Cicada survival tactic, but weekly instead of a 17 years cycle. :)
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • Ravicus wrote: »
    Hehe that would be fun but can you imagine the PVE playerbase would go nuts. They want to get their resources home and safe :)

    Just touching on this real quick.

    PvE players won't be the only ones interested in caravans getting home safe. Supplies need to move regardless of playstyle. A PvP guild will still want their caravan of potion ingredients to make it to their alchemist, or iron to their blacksmith, so they can gear up and continue warring with other players. I fully expect caravans to be carefully guarded by interested parties and you may find yourself defending your own guild's caravans just as often as you may be hunting down rival caravans.

    There will likely be a lot of potential opportunities for caravan battles, but your relationships with other guilds will influence your own approach.
  • I think that'll depend on the area. Around a major node (Tier 5/6), I suspect there will be multiple caravans daily to and from vassal nodes. To the major node because it requires large amounts of resources for maintenance alone but also for construction and the high level artisanship. From the major node to its vassal nodes because there will be players requiring the superior gear produced in "the big city" and at a later point in time the outflow of resources produced by the relics. Also, there is a case to be made that guild migration between these two will be happening.

    There will also be caravans from "the frontier", vassal nodes at the edges of the capitols ZOI. These will probably be mostly raw materials but depending on the location (a "safe" edge of the ZOI for example) it might also be a place where high quality processing materials come from, produced by a guild of players who prefer a less PvP heavy game style.

    To conclude: The primary factors in my opinion will be the area we are talking about, the "phase" the server is in (there is strong evidence that there will be periods of more and less PvP) and the general activity of players on the server.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
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