I'm not advocating for a 12 hour time to the level cap - I'm simply pointing out that people can use Steven's stated influences for Ashes to make a valid argument for it.
As an argument based on Ashes influences, a 12 hour time to the level cap is as valid a thing to ask Intrepid to change to as any other tim to the leve cap. Someone asking for that has as much of a valid reason as you have for asking for it to be longer than what Steven has stated. You are both using games that Ashes is influenced by and asking it to be more like them
What you seem to be suggesting by saying it isn't valid is that it is valid to ask for Ashes to be more like one of the games that influence it if it is a thing you want, but it is not ok to ask for Ashes to be more like one of the games that influence it if it is not a thing you want.
Completely depends on how enjoyable the leveling experience is, but I'm going to assume it will be good. Anything similar to WoW vanilla/classic is optimal to me.
Personally I'd like ascended classes (maybe this is your second class pick) and then leveling from 1 again but now as the new class (and having higher stats). Ragnarok online has this mechanic and it just feels perfect.
I would not be opposed to a longer leveling time, it would really make it feel like a achievement. More so though I want some kind of leveling after we hit max level, something to work towards like ancestrals from Archeage, or Realm Rank from DAoC, I would prefer the later, it would truly keep players playing that character for years to achieve Realm Rank 10.
id like to actually make it to max before i have grandkids so please god no
"Game only starts when you are at endgame" is not a universal truth. If you believe that - it is because of your personal MMO experience. Content being shoved down your throat faster than you can process it, turning everything into a meaningless blur.
Why craft gear or form groups for world bosses, if items you get will be irrelevant 10 minutes later and get replaced by a quest reward!? Why PVP over farming spot if you will move to new one few minutes later!? Not much of a reason, i agree. Leveling is boring and pointless, if it is made that way.
Most activities you want to do at max level you can have fun with early, they just need to be relevant.
If gear you grind will last you for a week - it will not feel like a waste of time, even at level 15. You can equally make a years-long friends and enemies at level 12, as you can at 50, as long as there is enough time and reason for those relationships to form.
I think longer leveling might also be good for natural progression from solo player to a group, guild and to alliance. Give players time to get introduced into the world and mechanics, build bonds.
Few people said it would make it too hard for new players to catch up, if leveling takes too long. They won't fully catch up either way. But game can be built so that newcomers can enjoy it, and have fun engaging with what it has to offer regardless of their level. Crazy idea to some, it seems. You don't need to be Messi or win FIFA World Cup to enjoy playing football.
I'd just like to throw this comment into consideration because it seems to be missing from the conversation as a whole. There needs to be a reason for levels to be present in the game. Leveling has a lot on concepts inherently connected to them, and scaling the time to just *longer* does not really equate to any improvement in quality of the game.
You have to keep in mind:
1. Leveling has to contain consistent content, killing the same mobs over and over is not even close to an agreeable gameplay strategy. Trying to ask Intrepid to provide consistent content for 500 hours of content during leveling is insane.
2. You need to have a sense of progression as you level, your level simply being a larger number is not enough of a reward. If you intend to have quality content to surround a KIT that a class possesses, you need to trickle the full kit into the gameplay. Having to go 3 levels without a new spell.. equivalent to 3-5 days of gameplay sounds horrifying to me at lower levels.
3. If you don't follow those two rules above, the point of there even being a leveling system is redundant.
Don't get me wrong, I fundamentally agree with the sentiment that is likely backing this post. Many MMORPGs are lost in the "It doesn't start until you're ____" That concept is in fact absurd. But what you should remember is that Ashes in it's core is not presented with this same issue. Just because you're at max level, or even maxed gear doesn't mean the game is done progressing. Us the players are responsible for making the entire world progress. If you're interested in having influence over your position in the world, your control of nodes, etc. you will inherently place less value in reaching max level. Also after reaching max level, you will still have interest in participating with people under your level, because the world and it's scenarios aren't inherently linked with your level.
There's a balance to be found here, between keeping leveling slow to ensure there is a journey, ensuring that it's fast enough that it feels rewarding to casual players, slow enough to teach the player that the world is important, not just player power. This kind of conditional balance is something I trust in Intrepid deeply to decipher. Thanks for your time!
1. Leveling has to contain consistent content, killing the same mobs over and over is not even close to an agreeable gameplay strategy. Trying to ask Intrepid to provide consistent content for 500 hours of content during leveling is insane.
And what about when you're "done" leveling? I'd imagine we'll have to wait more than 500h w/o consistent content. So if the content drought is inevitable, why loaded it all off onto the last lvl instead of spreading it over all of them?
2. You need to have a sense of progression as you level, your level simply being a larger number is not enough of a reward. If you intend to have quality content to surround a KIT that a class possesses, you need to trickle the full kit into the gameplay. Having to go 3 levels without a new spell.. equivalent to 3-5 days of gameplay sounds horrifying to me at lower levels.
You'll go months w/o getting new spells once you're done leveling. Will you feel horrified then as well? And you hitting max lvl is not the end of your character's progress. You'll just have to wait for the next expansion to come, which will be in several months (if not a year) after release, so you'll be playing with the same skillset for a loooong time either way.
Don't get me wrong, I fundamentally agree with the sentiment that is likely backing this post. Many MMORPGs are lost in the "It doesn't start until you're ____" That concept is in fact absurd. But what you should remember is that Ashes in it's core is not presented with this same issue. Just because you're at max level, or even maxed gear doesn't mean the game is done progressing. Us the players are responsible for making the entire world progress. If you're interested in having influence over your position in the world, your control of nodes, etc. you will inherently place less value in reaching max level. Also after reaching max level, you will still have interest in participating with people under your level, because the world and it's scenarios aren't inherently linked with your level.
And here you go contradicting yourself. If there's always more progress to be made then what is the difference in having that progress at lvl 45 or at lvl 50? And if high lvl players are meant to go interact with lower lvl players, then why should the game push everyone to be the same? Might as well just have everyone progress at whichever pace, while the base pace is real slow.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I mean…at max Primary Archetype, we probably will not gain new Active Skills unless they add some in a Seasonal Update or Expansion.
We have a variety of ways to gain more Augments.
If Ashes successfully implements their Nodes design, we won’t be repeatedly killing the exact same content - because content changes as Nodes rise and fall and with different dominant races. Content can also change as new Mayors construct different services.
Content also changes with Seasons.
Content also changes with the Events system.
Ashes is not supposed to be a static world where the content always respawns exactly the same way - and you only encounter new content as you travel to static regions with higher level mobs.
If Ashes successfully implements their Nodes design, we won’t be repeatedly killing the exact same content - because content changes as Nodes rise and fall and with different dominant races. Content can also change as new Mayors construct different services.
Content also changes with Seasons.
Content also changes with the Events system.
And all of this is true no matter what your lvl is, so the argument of "omg, they won't be able to create enough content for me if leveling takes 100days instead of 45" is silly. You either believe what Intrepid are telling us or you will never have "enough" content in the game.
What I gather is that the previous mmos of the majority of the posters here did not place ANY value on gear or consumables or quests, except for the final grade/tier, leading to end-game treadmills to loot (by chance) the item with the suitable bonuses; and so people cruised through the whole map.
The same people that talk about how "the nodes naturally slow down progress, as content is required to be unlocked", fail to understand that mmos like L2 had good gear at lv1-19, 20-39, 40-52, 52-61, 61-76 which (like the nodes had to be unlocked).
They fail to understand that in the pursuit of getting proper items, players had to fully explore and play and quest in ALL corners of the map, which naturaly would take more than "45D". Without gear lv20-39 players could not venture into the world of gear 40-76.
But anyway... we live in a world where people that count to 100.000 get a bunch of people to sit down and watch them count to 100.000 and then money is thrown at them...
We live in a world of people, where some says "who would I have kids, instead of doing what I want with my time?" and then proceed to spend their 40mins of that valuable time listening to someone else in discord talking about their cats.
In a few words, many of the people here have complained about not wanting to play in each area for more than a couple of hours (lv grind or whatever). I guess they have some tiktok to watch or consume other online gems because their time is valuable.
If Ashes successfully implements their Nodes design, we won’t be repeatedly killing the exact same content - because content changes as Nodes rise and fall and with different dominant races. Content can also change as new Mayors construct different services.
Content also changes with Seasons.
Content also changes with the Events system.
And all of this is true no matter what your lvl is, so the argument of "omg, they won't be able to create enough content for me if leveling takes 100days instead of 45" is silly. You either believe what Intrepid are telling us or you will never have "enough" content in the game.
Would it work also for 365 days leveling?
Or let's better make it 730 days and have the character max level 730 too.
But with freeholds available at lvl 30 as George said.
I suddenly see some advantages. Disadvantages too... but maybe is worth accepting them.
Would it work also for 365 days leveling?
Or let's better make it 730 days and have the character max level 730 too.
It works with infinite leveling, because the world itself is supposed to change and on top of that you have all the pvp content that is also a part of the game and the progress cycle.
Though in reality it is all just flavoring, cause you'll still just be grinding quests, grinding mobs, grinding bosses and having pvp fights against the same people during all of those activities. There is no variety in mmos, never have been. It's all just imaginary.
There is no variety in mmos, never have been. It's all just imaginary.
That's why most players play BG3 and Starfield and only come here to play the imaginary AoC.
Once AoC becomes real, things might change. And Steven is afraid of that change.
Would it work also for 365 days leveling?
Or let's better make it 730 days and have the character max level 730 too.
It works with infinite leveling, because the world itself is supposed to change and on top of that you have all the pvp content that is also a part of the game and the progress cycle.
Though in reality it is all just flavoring, cause you'll still just be grinding quests, grinding mobs, grinding bosses and having pvp fights against the same people during all of those activities.
Would you do any changes to some game mechanics or would all stay as it is?
If infinate leveling was offered, those lunatics who chase the 0.0001 gain, would only manage to isolate themselves in some corner of the map.
Most people wouldnt bother. At that point you may as well make an alt instead of playing 24/7 in the same old areas.
If infinate leveling was offered, those lunatics who chase the 0.0001 gain, would only manage to isolate themselves in some corner of the map.
Most people wouldnt bother. At that point you may as well make an alt instead of playing 24/7 in the same old areas.
You would still have to travel between those areas and the node and then carry stuff with caravans to be able to repair or craft gear which you need. And there are enough players who want to play one character only. They would help each-other with crafting. They could also farm resources others cannot.
Really infinite leveling is not practical with the current system unless you make the high levels somehow vulnerable to low levels, to force them cooperate and team up. But 365 levels, one per day I think could work. I suggested 730 just to reveal weaknesses. It is easier to notice them when we push numbers to the limit.
I will add also that I dismiss the opinions of people that dislike new lv caps, new gear etc. Why? Because they come from the eso -and the likes- mentality.
Let's see what it means new lv cap and new gear in eso:
You just walk up to the station and you craft or you play the two new dungeons 100 times and pray to rng.
You just grind, without owpvp, the new lv and its stats, without player conflict or a new skill to look forward to. Pointless. Every 3 months there are pointless additions when it comes to character progression.
Whilst in L2? A new expansion (once a year or so) meant new map new castles new items new crafts new levels and skills and quests and player conflict to look forward to.
PvP for everything. Guild gameplay all over the land.
You cant compare that to esos (and the likes) of having to repeat the same instanced shit over and over, just to gold out the new fotm gear.
No player conflict. No new challenge to rally against.
I think with this amount of days you suggest we encroach in expansion territory. I dont agree to that.
I would rather they introduce new areas, new lvcap and content every 1.5years or so.
I can play 6 months on a map without visiting let's say volcanic biome. And then relocate to the other side and play there. Some areas would overlap of course. In case of AoC, there will be 2 continents and the underrealm. Maybe some areas will be complex enough to require assistance from a local player, to travel through. Especially if the map changes based on seasons and events.
So a level cap for 1.5 years could be 500.
An expansion, while could add new areas, I would prefer to also remove some. At least temporarily, to prevent players spreading over a larger area while population is also decreasing as the game ages.
Would you do any changes to some game mechanics or would all stay as it is?
I'd need to know their plan for the BH system and the corruption balancing. But both of those are always "subject to change", so it's pointless to have any desire for change rn.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
It works with infinite leveling, because the world itself is supposed to change and on top of that you have all the pvp content that is also a part of the game and the progress cycle.
Though in reality it is all just flavoring, cause you'll still just be grinding quests, grinding mobs, grinding bosses and having pvp fights against the same people during all of those activities. There is no variety in mmos, never have been. It's all just imaginary.
I think grinding is probably the wrong word, but...
We should also be focused on Buy Orders... because those help progress the world.
Grinding was called grinding because we were just gaining small increments of xp by banging on static mobs that would just respawn. You kill Fippy Darkpaw 50 times, he's just going to respawn in the exact same spot.
If there is a Quest associated with Fippy, upon completion of that Quest, you should get a decent chunk of bonus xp and you should get a chunk of bonus gold and decent piece of gear that's better than the typical Fippy drop. Once.
But, outside of that one time Quest associated with Fippy, it's not going to change very much.
Same if you kill 100 Skeletons in the Feldark.
In Ashes, everything we do will contribute to Node progression and change within the world.
Most likely, people will generally not simply grind individual harvest nodes. Rather, they will attempt to fulfill some Buy Orders so that their Gathering is more meaningful than individually acquiring Resources for individual Crafting. And they can get some bonus rewards, like Node Rep and Node Coin.
Grinding meant that killing individual mobs very slowly increased xp at a trickle and increased coin at a trickle.
In RPGs, Quests are intended to provide signifcantly more than that in a variety of paths that improve the character. With Ashes, there will be methods of doing that in addition to Quests.
Killing the Winter Dragon to end the effects of the Perpetual Winter will not just be an imaginary result.
Gaining xp and excellent resources for Legendary gear will not be the only reasons to hunt the Winter Dragon.
And, really, should not be the primary reasons.
Grinding meant that killing individual mobs very slowly increased xp at a trickle and increased coin at a trickle.
In RPGs, Quests are intended to provide signifcantly more than that in a variety of paths that improve the character. With Ashes, there will be methods of doing that in addition to Quests.
Killing the Winter Dragon to end the effects of the Perpetual Winter will not just be an imaginary result.
Gaining xp and excellent resources for Legendary gear will not be the only reasons to hunt the Winter Dragon.
And, really, should not be the primary reasons.
I'm looking at the big picture here. It's near impossible to create endless unique content. No matter how many changes the game can have, if you play for long enough those changes will run out and you'll be repeating the same content over and over for whichever rewards/results they give.
Also, having a winter dragon that cools everything, a fire dragon that heats stuff up, wind dragon that I dunno blows shit over, earth dragon that brings more mobs or whichever other dragon/boss/mob - all are ultimately the same to me. Just a mob to be killed. And after the 10th such mob it all becomes a chore. And if they're powerful enough to make a ton of people need to kill them - it's a hugeass chore.
Now I love grinding, doing the same shit over and over, and all those chores. And obviously quite a lot of mmo players like that as well, cause that's exactly what you do in mmos. I just hope that AoC's chores are entertaining enough for enough people to support the game for as long as possible.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2023
We just have to see how well IS can implement their designs.
These days, MMORPGs actually are able to manually introduce new content via Seasons.
Perpetual Winter does not merely “cool things”.
It disrupts which resources are available and also impacts the productivity of Node services.
In addition to affecting which mobs are available.
It may also impact the effectiveness of specific Active Skills and Augments.
It’s not just killing the same mob or boss over and over again, because each boss will significantly impact what we’re able to do in the world.
Similar to destroying a Scientific Metro if you want to rid the server of the Fast Travel Super Power.
In Ashes, you don’t really “grind” killing bosses, just as you don’t “grind” Node Sieges.
(Also, you can’t really grind something you love to do.)
Sure, you can language drift anything, but…
We just have to see how well IS can implement their designs.
These days, MMORPGs actually are able to manually introduce new content via Seasons.
Genshin is the closest game to the "ideal" content release cycle. Every 6 weeks it gets new events, new quests and most of the time new locations with new mobs/bosses. It is able to produce all of that (and 3 other damn games with the same release schedule lol) cause it makes insane money. I dunno how hard it'll be for Intrepid to make the content updates meaningful enough and get them out often enough to keep people in the game and potentially bring in new ones, but I'd assume it'll be reaaaaal hard or at the very least real expensive.
Also, afaik majority of Genshin players can't even keep up with that content cycle. But even then they still burn out of the game because even such variety can become mundane. And Genshin is a solo game where there's no real "race" to do content or progress faster. Ashes will be different.
In Ashes, you don’t really “grind” killing bosses, just as you don’t “grind” Node Sieges.
Again, this will only be true if Intrepid somehow manage to make hundreds of absolutely unique bosses and make the players have absolutely unique sieges. L2's sieges became mundane with time, and they didn't even have the "you lose a ton of your shit if your node falls" feature.
(Also, you can’t really grind something you love to do.)
Sure, you can language drift anything, but…
But at that point it's all purely subjective. I just got done grinding in Starfield. I was killing lvl 1-5 mobs as a lvl 13 and clearing similar-looking locations of the same dumb npcs that the previous location had. I did this for 7 straight hours and did the same yesterday for 8. All while picking up every damn pickaupable thing in the game.
I loved it all the way through, but I fully realize that this kind of gameplay is seen as grindy to the majority of players. So no matter how much I love doing this - it's still a grind.
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LifeburnMember, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Currently Steven said that a very active mmo player will need 45 days more or less to reach lv cap.
This game is shaping up to be wonderful. Here is this months Dev update describing gameplay revolved around mayor elections and mayor decisions that affect your community (nodes)
I think people will be happier if it took 120 days to reach level cap and FH accessible at lv 30.
There is so much to do. People wont be bored of grinding levels because there are a million of gameplay avenues.
And the best part of a longer "journey"?
It may seem like it never ends (even though 120 days seems like nothing to me..)
Like a table of food that is still filled to the brim, despite all the other hungry guests.
Increase to 120 days imho, and FHs at lv 30.
Are you advocating for some artificial gating of levels, or just making it hard(high xp cost)
In the end, those of us who play 20h a day, will still hit the top end long before most unless you lock it behind time gates.
Time gating levels is a piss poor way to build a game, it prevents some people from playing how they want to, because someone else doesnt want them to play that way.
Comments
Indeed.
You're closer than that.
I'm not advocating for a 12 hour time to the level cap - I'm simply pointing out that people can use Steven's stated influences for Ashes to make a valid argument for it.
As an argument based on Ashes influences, a 12 hour time to the level cap is as valid a thing to ask Intrepid to change to as any other tim to the leve cap. Someone asking for that has as much of a valid reason as you have for asking for it to be longer than what Steven has stated. You are both using games that Ashes is influenced by and asking it to be more like them
What you seem to be suggesting by saying it isn't valid is that it is valid to ask for Ashes to be more like one of the games that influence it if it is a thing you want, but it is not ok to ask for Ashes to be more like one of the games that influence it if it is not a thing you want.
Personally I'd like ascended classes (maybe this is your second class pick) and then leveling from 1 again but now as the new class (and having higher stats). Ragnarok online has this mechanic and it just feels perfect.
Why craft gear or form groups for world bosses, if items you get will be irrelevant 10 minutes later and get replaced by a quest reward!? Why PVP over farming spot if you will move to new one few minutes later!? Not much of a reason, i agree. Leveling is boring and pointless, if it is made that way.
Most activities you want to do at max level you can have fun with early, they just need to be relevant.
If gear you grind will last you for a week - it will not feel like a waste of time, even at level 15. You can equally make a years-long friends and enemies at level 12, as you can at 50, as long as there is enough time and reason for those relationships to form.
I think longer leveling might also be good for natural progression from solo player to a group, guild and to alliance. Give players time to get introduced into the world and mechanics, build bonds.
Few people said it would make it too hard for new players to catch up, if leveling takes too long. They won't fully catch up either way. But game can be built so that newcomers can enjoy it, and have fun engaging with what it has to offer regardless of their level. Crazy idea to some, it seems. You don't need to be Messi or win FIFA World Cup to enjoy playing football.
You have to keep in mind:
1. Leveling has to contain consistent content, killing the same mobs over and over is not even close to an agreeable gameplay strategy. Trying to ask Intrepid to provide consistent content for 500 hours of content during leveling is insane.
2. You need to have a sense of progression as you level, your level simply being a larger number is not enough of a reward. If you intend to have quality content to surround a KIT that a class possesses, you need to trickle the full kit into the gameplay. Having to go 3 levels without a new spell.. equivalent to 3-5 days of gameplay sounds horrifying to me at lower levels.
3. If you don't follow those two rules above, the point of there even being a leveling system is redundant.
Don't get me wrong, I fundamentally agree with the sentiment that is likely backing this post. Many MMORPGs are lost in the "It doesn't start until you're ____" That concept is in fact absurd. But what you should remember is that Ashes in it's core is not presented with this same issue. Just because you're at max level, or even maxed gear doesn't mean the game is done progressing. Us the players are responsible for making the entire world progress. If you're interested in having influence over your position in the world, your control of nodes, etc. you will inherently place less value in reaching max level. Also after reaching max level, you will still have interest in participating with people under your level, because the world and it's scenarios aren't inherently linked with your level.
There's a balance to be found here, between keeping leveling slow to ensure there is a journey, ensuring that it's fast enough that it feels rewarding to casual players, slow enough to teach the player that the world is important, not just player power. This kind of conditional balance is something I trust in Intrepid deeply to decipher. Thanks for your time!
You'll go months w/o getting new spells once you're done leveling. Will you feel horrified then as well? And you hitting max lvl is not the end of your character's progress. You'll just have to wait for the next expansion to come, which will be in several months (if not a year) after release, so you'll be playing with the same skillset for a loooong time either way.
True, we should all start with all spells and passives and achievements unlocked. Who needs progression.
And here you go contradicting yourself. If there's always more progress to be made then what is the difference in having that progress at lvl 45 or at lvl 50? And if high lvl players are meant to go interact with lower lvl players, then why should the game push everyone to be the same? Might as well just have everyone progress at whichever pace, while the base pace is real slow.
We have a variety of ways to gain more Augments.
If Ashes successfully implements their Nodes design, we won’t be repeatedly killing the exact same content - because content changes as Nodes rise and fall and with different dominant races. Content can also change as new Mayors construct different services.
Content also changes with Seasons.
Content also changes with the Events system.
Ashes is not supposed to be a static world where the content always respawns exactly the same way - and you only encounter new content as you travel to static regions with higher level mobs.
The same people that talk about how "the nodes naturally slow down progress, as content is required to be unlocked", fail to understand that mmos like L2 had good gear at lv1-19, 20-39, 40-52, 52-61, 61-76 which (like the nodes had to be unlocked).
They fail to understand that in the pursuit of getting proper items, players had to fully explore and play and quest in ALL corners of the map, which naturaly would take more than "45D". Without gear lv20-39 players could not venture into the world of gear 40-76.
But anyway... we live in a world where people that count to 100.000 get a bunch of people to sit down and watch them count to 100.000 and then money is thrown at them...
We live in a world of people, where some says "who would I have kids, instead of doing what I want with my time?" and then proceed to spend their 40mins of that valuable time listening to someone else in discord talking about their cats.
In a few words, many of the people here have complained about not wanting to play in each area for more than a couple of hours (lv grind or whatever). I guess they have some tiktok to watch or consume other online gems because their time is valuable.
Would it work also for 365 days leveling?
Or let's better make it 730 days and have the character max level 730 too.
But with freeholds available at lvl 30 as George said.
I suddenly see some advantages. Disadvantages too... but maybe is worth accepting them.
Though in reality it is all just flavoring, cause you'll still just be grinding quests, grinding mobs, grinding bosses and having pvp fights against the same people during all of those activities. There is no variety in mmos, never have been. It's all just imaginary.
Once AoC becomes real, things might change. And Steven is afraid of that change.
Would you do any changes to some game mechanics or would all stay as it is?
Most people wouldnt bother. At that point you may as well make an alt instead of playing 24/7 in the same old areas.
You would still have to travel between those areas and the node and then carry stuff with caravans to be able to repair or craft gear which you need. And there are enough players who want to play one character only. They would help each-other with crafting. They could also farm resources others cannot.
Really infinite leveling is not practical with the current system unless you make the high levels somehow vulnerable to low levels, to force them cooperate and team up. But 365 levels, one per day I think could work. I suggested 730 just to reveal weaknesses. It is easier to notice them when we push numbers to the limit.
I would rather they introduce new areas, new lvcap and content every 1.5years or so.
Let's see what it means new lv cap and new gear in eso:
You just walk up to the station and you craft or you play the two new dungeons 100 times and pray to rng.
You just grind, without owpvp, the new lv and its stats, without player conflict or a new skill to look forward to. Pointless. Every 3 months there are pointless additions when it comes to character progression.
Whilst in L2? A new expansion (once a year or so) meant new map new castles new items new crafts new levels and skills and quests and player conflict to look forward to.
PvP for everything. Guild gameplay all over the land.
You cant compare that to esos (and the likes) of having to repeat the same instanced shit over and over, just to gold out the new fotm gear.
No player conflict. No new challenge to rally against.
I can play 6 months on a map without visiting let's say volcanic biome. And then relocate to the other side and play there. Some areas would overlap of course. In case of AoC, there will be 2 continents and the underrealm. Maybe some areas will be complex enough to require assistance from a local player, to travel through. Especially if the map changes based on seasons and events.
So a level cap for 1.5 years could be 500.
An expansion, while could add new areas, I would prefer to also remove some. At least temporarily, to prevent players spreading over a larger area while population is also decreasing as the game ages.
I think grinding is probably the wrong word, but...
We should also be focused on Buy Orders... because those help progress the world.
Grinding was called grinding because we were just gaining small increments of xp by banging on static mobs that would just respawn. You kill Fippy Darkpaw 50 times, he's just going to respawn in the exact same spot.
If there is a Quest associated with Fippy, upon completion of that Quest, you should get a decent chunk of bonus xp and you should get a chunk of bonus gold and decent piece of gear that's better than the typical Fippy drop. Once.
But, outside of that one time Quest associated with Fippy, it's not going to change very much.
Same if you kill 100 Skeletons in the Feldark.
In Ashes, everything we do will contribute to Node progression and change within the world.
Most likely, people will generally not simply grind individual harvest nodes. Rather, they will attempt to fulfill some Buy Orders so that their Gathering is more meaningful than individually acquiring Resources for individual Crafting. And they can get some bonus rewards, like Node Rep and Node Coin.
Grinding meant that killing individual mobs very slowly increased xp at a trickle and increased coin at a trickle.
In RPGs, Quests are intended to provide signifcantly more than that in a variety of paths that improve the character. With Ashes, there will be methods of doing that in addition to Quests.
Killing the Winter Dragon to end the effects of the Perpetual Winter will not just be an imaginary result.
Gaining xp and excellent resources for Legendary gear will not be the only reasons to hunt the Winter Dragon.
And, really, should not be the primary reasons.
Also, having a winter dragon that cools everything, a fire dragon that heats stuff up, wind dragon that I dunno blows shit over, earth dragon that brings more mobs or whichever other dragon/boss/mob - all are ultimately the same to me. Just a mob to be killed. And after the 10th such mob it all becomes a chore. And if they're powerful enough to make a ton of people need to kill them - it's a hugeass chore.
Now I love grinding, doing the same shit over and over, and all those chores. And obviously quite a lot of mmo players like that as well, cause that's exactly what you do in mmos. I just hope that AoC's chores are entertaining enough for enough people to support the game for as long as possible.
These days, MMORPGs actually are able to manually introduce new content via Seasons.
Perpetual Winter does not merely “cool things”.
It disrupts which resources are available and also impacts the productivity of Node services.
In addition to affecting which mobs are available.
It may also impact the effectiveness of specific Active Skills and Augments.
It’s not just killing the same mob or boss over and over again, because each boss will significantly impact what we’re able to do in the world.
Similar to destroying a Scientific Metro if you want to rid the server of the Fast Travel Super Power.
In Ashes, you don’t really “grind” killing bosses, just as you don’t “grind” Node Sieges.
(Also, you can’t really grind something you love to do.)
Sure, you can language drift anything, but…
Also, afaik majority of Genshin players can't even keep up with that content cycle. But even then they still burn out of the game because even such variety can become mundane. And Genshin is a solo game where there's no real "race" to do content or progress faster. Ashes will be different.
Again, this will only be true if Intrepid somehow manage to make hundreds of absolutely unique bosses and make the players have absolutely unique sieges. L2's sieges became mundane with time, and they didn't even have the "you lose a ton of your shit if your node falls" feature.
But at that point it's all purely subjective. I just got done grinding in Starfield. I was killing lvl 1-5 mobs as a lvl 13 and clearing similar-looking locations of the same dumb npcs that the previous location had. I did this for 7 straight hours and did the same yesterday for 8. All while picking up every damn pickaupable thing in the game.
I loved it all the way through, but I fully realize that this kind of gameplay is seen as grindy to the majority of players. So no matter how much I love doing this - it's still a grind.
Are you advocating for some artificial gating of levels, or just making it hard(high xp cost)
In the end, those of us who play 20h a day, will still hit the top end long before most unless you lock it behind time gates.
Time gating levels is a piss poor way to build a game, it prevents some people from playing how they want to, because someone else doesnt want them to play that way.
It's really annoying when people add their own opinions and thoughts to what you're saying, and then arguing against those additions, isn't it.
Not as annoying as you
Sick burn bro, did your dad help with it?
Im a dad
Doesn't mean you don't have a dad though.
It just seemed like a sick burn that your dad helped with, is all.