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Concerns About Early-Level Costumes in Ashes of Creation: Immersion and Fulfillment Feedback

AltairisAltairis Member
edited September 2023 in General Discussion
Greetings, fellow Ashes of Creation enthusiasts,

After closely following Ashes' development for six years and considering others' feedback, there's one recurring concern that I believe deserves our attention: 'Costumes' lacking level restrictions. Before delving into my thoughts, I want to make it clear that I understand the reasoning behind monthly FOMO cosmetics. These cosmetics play a vital role in creating a vibrant in-game world and provide a sensible monetization model. Additionally, the exclusivity of the best-looking gear being attainable only in-game is a feature I wholeheartedly applaud. I'm also aware that Steven and the community have discussed this topic several times now.

However, despite my deep affection for the game and its potential for immersion, the current availability of costumes right from level 1 gives me pause. My primary issue lies in the potential disruption to immersion and progression in the game. It feels somewhat jarring to witness brand-new characters parading around in extravagant outfits from the very beginning. This early introduction of lavish cosmetics could diminish the sense of accomplishment and progression as players level up and strive for more substantial rewards.

While some of these costumes do fit well for us to wear, like NPC allies, what about our enemies? Imagine encountering someone wearing the 'Face of Sorrow' right from the start. It can be a bit perplexing and lore-breaking, giving off the impression that they've already vanquished those sinister and edgy adversaries, and there are a thousand more players like that at the beginning.

With this concern in mind, I'd like to propose one of two suggestions that, in my opinion, could significantly enhance this aspect of the game:

1. Raise the Level Requirement: One potential solution is to consider increasing the level requirement for equipping costumes. By doing so, players would need to invest more time and effort into their characters before gaining access to these flashy cosmetics. This approach prolongs the anticipation and enhances the sense of accomplishment when players eventually unlock these unique looks. While I understand the concern about potential backlash, I believe that open communication from Intrepid Studios about the reasons behind this adjustment would be appreciated by the community. Given that you've already implemented restrictions for Freeholds and Mounts, it's a feasible step.

2. Provide Starting Cosmetic Options: An alternative approach is for Intrepid to offer stylish, lore-friendly starting cosmetics that are accessible to all players right from the beginning. These cosmetics should seamlessly align with the game world's lore, ensuring they make sense within the context of our characters' journey from Sanctus to Verra. This way, players can maintain a sense of personalization without overshadowing the early stages of character progression. It would be helpful if we could compare these starting in-game cosmetics with in-shop costumes for more transparency. So far, I've only seen a few sets of armor above level 10, which aren't exactly starting gear. We need to see more gears that can be achieved early in the game.

I know that balancing personalization and preserving the early-game experience's integrity is pivotal for the success of Ashes of Creation.

I also believe that implementing these adjustments could not only enrich the overall experience but also cater to players who prioritize immersion and progression in the game. While there's always a challenge in finding the right balance, these proposals aim to strike that balance.

What are your thoughts on these ideas? I'm eager to hear your opinions and insights on how we, as a community, can contribute to making Ashes of Creation an even more immersive and enjoyable game for us. Let's engage in this discussion!

Edit: Personally, I think just increasing the level requirement on costumes will do just fine. It's better than having no level restriction at all. Is there any specific reason for it not having any restrictions?
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Comments

  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No, just another pearl clutching "buh mah mershun!" post.
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    its a video game, people like skins, mounts, and customisation, your immersion can't overlap how other players like to play the game, the developers are putting enough limits like keeping all cosmetics lore-friendly with no bikinis, panda costumes or japanese student outfits, that's enough
    img]
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  • Personally, I think just increasing the level requirement on costumes will do just fine. It's better than having no level restriction at all. Is there any specific reason for it not having any restrictions?
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Altairis wrote: »
    Personally, I think just increasing the level requirement on costumes will do just fine. It's better than having no level restriction at all. Is there any specific reason for it not having any restrictions?

    They sold them saying we would be able to use with no level restrictions, not a good start for a game developer if they start lying before the game even launches
    img]
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  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    I personally do not want to be forced to look like some Level 1 rag-bum when I have a spank-ass costume in the closet, so please, do not restrict my choice of clothing.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    No, just another pearl clutching "buh mah mershun!" post.

    Yup! Lost track of the number of them.


    @Altairis :


    1) I paid for it, I should be able to use it, as early as I can obtain the items these cosmetics will "go over".

    2) Some of us will have the roleplay of having already lived a life on Sanctus; Not everyone coming through the portal is destitute and lower-class. Some of us may be from Sanctus's middle and upper-classes, and even claim allegiance to some of the groups that have already come before our group - such as the Verdant Keeper organization.

    3) The NPCs (particuarily the quest-givers) will already possess armor and weapons and look higher-level than you; Some people of Verra came before you, and some didn't come through the portal with rags for clothes. This doesn't mean that you can't still visually advance *yourself* from rags-to-riches.

    4) Some of us planned our cosmetic purchases to already accomodate appearances that will go from low-level to high-level; Not ALL of the cosmetics are glowy, golden-inlaid end-game-lookin' items and outfits.

    You really shouldn't concern yourself with what other players will be wearing and look like, early-on; We're NOT the first group through the portal, we're NOT all going to have the same backgrounds, and nothing anyone else wears will diminish your ability to moderate your own toon's visual advancement.



  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't understand why something being "jarring" and "perplexing" to one player is a reason that anything should change, ever.

  • Maybe just have a feature to turn off skins for yourself.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Why would travellers from Sanctus not have access to clothing that looks great?
    Are you thinking the Portals disintegrate disintegrate clothing??

    Steven will tell you that everyone who travels through a Portal from Sanctus to Verra is a hero.
    And, cosmetics are designed such that we can visually determine whether they are bought cosmetics or gear acquired in-game.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    well, you came back to verra, so you previously had a life wherever you were. that means you had clothes.
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited September 2023
    There should be a level requirement at the very least for the high end ones. I don't care about the lore and I could care less about some of the more basic lookings costumes. A huge part of MMORPGs is progression. If I spawn in level 1 day 1 and instantly see another level 1 in legendary golden legionaires armor because they swiped their credit card for 400 dollars and I didn't, that's just straight up bad game design. There is no progression or sense of it with costumes the way they are. Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago. 7th Lancer, Corvid castigator, remnant sympothizer, face of sorrow and protectors armor are all examples of what I'm talking about. Nobody should get to start the game looking like an end game/max level character. I don't care how much you paid.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    ...Are you thinking the Portals disintegrate disintegrate clothing??....

    Maybe the portals WILL have "Terminator" rules; You go through, and you're naked and confused, running around in a past world!



  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago

    bro just said cosmetics are p2w 💀💀
    img]
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    There should be a level requirement at the very least for the high end ones. I don't care about the lore and I could care less about some of the more basic lookings costumes. A huge part of MMORPGs is progression. If I spawn in level 1 day 1 and instantly see another level 1 in legendary golden legionaires armor because they swiped their credit card for 400 dollars and I didn't, that's just straight up bad game design. There is no progression or sense of it with costumes the way they are. Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago. 7th Lancer, Corvid castigator, remnant sympothizer, face of sorrow and protectors armor are all examples of what I'm talking about. Nobody should get to start the game looking like an end game/max level character. I don't care how much you paid.

    I look forward to seeing you make a free game for me that has no monetization and i don't need to pay money to play the game lol.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    "High end" cosmetics??
    There will be cosmetics that look expensive - but they will still be easily understood to be cosmetics with no stats.
    You get to RP as a general from Sanctus if you wish, but everyone will know that your appearance is just cosmetics and you could be a newbie when it comes to Verran magic.
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    orthello wrote: »
    Maybe just have a feature to turn off skins for yourself.
    That won't work either, @orthello ... the whole reason for having unique cosmetics is so you can be seen by other players (any MMO not just Ashes).

    Liniker wrote: »
    Voeltz wrote: »
    Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago

    bro just said cosmetics are p2w 💀💀
    Right?

    Can't wait till we get closer to launch ... when the number of forum-goers (with their own personal interpretations of "pay-to-win") multiplies exponentially.
  • Liniker wrote: »
    bro just said cosmetics are p2w 💀💀
    Saying 'arguably pay to win' and 'it is pay to win' are two different things. I recommend looking up the definition of the word.
    Dygz wrote: »
    "High end" cosmetics??
    There will be cosmetics that look expensive - but they will still be easily understood to be cosmetics with no stats.
    You get to RP as a general from Sanctus if you wish, but everyone will know that your appearance is just cosmetics and you could be a newbie when it comes to Verran magic.

    Obviously. And how do you know they don't have high level gear on behind the costume? You don't. That's my point, It can go both ways. You're making the visual progression of the game irrelevant which is a key component of MMORPGs. It's what allows you to distinguish a low level and high level character. They already have limits on cosmetic gear pieces, but not for whole costumes. Why? The higher price point? If they didn't already recognize an issue with this, there wouldn't be those restrictions. Just be consistent with the cosmetic system.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What limits on cosmetic gear pieces? Also, there will be an armour tab to reveal armour beneath cosmetics.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    so you prefer people naked with a stone axe at level 1? been there, done that!
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    RazThemun wrote: »
    so you prefer people naked with a stone axe at level 1? been there, done that!

    Bikini armour will be back on the menu like in Age of Conan lol.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • I don't see it as immersion breaking, pretty opposite honestly. People should have a variety of clothes armor. I think the world will be bland if there's no actual variety of the people and what they are wearing.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    No. If costumes really bug you, just kill them and reap the corruption. Nothing more immersive than unmitigated psychopathy.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    bro just said cosmetics are p2w 💀💀
    Saying 'arguably pay to win' and 'it is pay to win' are two different things. I recommend looking up the definition of the word.
    Dygz wrote: »
    "High end" cosmetics??
    There will be cosmetics that look expensive - but they will still be easily understood to be cosmetics with no stats.
    You get to RP as a general from Sanctus if you wish, but everyone will know that your appearance is just cosmetics and you could be a newbie when it comes to Verran magic.

    Obviously. And how do you know they don't have high level gear on behind the costume? You don't. That's my point, It can go both ways. You're making the visual progression of the game irrelevant which is a key component of MMORPGs. It's what allows you to distinguish a low level and high level character. They already have limits on cosmetic gear pieces, but not for whole costumes. Why? The higher price point? If they didn't already recognize an issue with this, there wouldn't be those restrictions. Just be consistent with the cosmetic system.

    Hur dur all you like. The only definition of P2W that counts here is Steven's. Enjoy.
    1qv5aal6s6tb.png

    And your second point rant shows that you are one of those that came in full of piss and vinegar without actually knowing anything about how the system works. Look to the wiki entry maintained by the excellent Lex for free (May all praise his benficience!) You will be able to tell tier and type of gear at a glance under their plans for threat assessment. You will know character name, class, and level from the nameplate. So your moaning about visual progression is moot. Don't play hard, play smart.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Threat_assessment
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    bro just said cosmetics are p2w 💀💀
    Saying 'arguably pay to win' and 'it is pay to win' are two different things. I recommend looking up the definition of the word.

    I suggest you look up the definition of the word.

    For you to think cosmetics are arguably pay to win, that means you must see an argument to that effect.

    You have not provided one at all.

    Appearance is not winning.
  • Hur dur all you like. The only definition of P2W that counts here is Steven's. Enjoy.
    1qv5aal6s6tb.png

    And your second point rant shows that you are one of those that came in full of piss and vinegar without actually knowing anything about how the system works. Look to the wiki entry maintained by the excellent Lex for free (May all praise his benficience!) You will be able to tell tier and type of gear at a glance under their plans for threat assessment. You will know character name, class, and level from the nameplate. So your moaning about visual progression is moot. Don't play hard, play smart.
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Threat_assessment
    What a childish response. Clearly, I'm not the one full of piss and vinegar. You'd think it's obvious that an icon under a nameplate does nothing for visuals/visual progression. Nothing you spewed from your toxic piehole changes anything. Try not to give yourself a stroke when you type these posts. Thank you, come again.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    There should be a level requirement at the very least for the high end ones. I don't care about the lore and I could care less about some of the more basic lookings costumes. A huge part of MMORPGs is progression. If I spawn in level 1 day 1 and instantly see another level 1 in legendary golden legionaires armor because they swiped their credit card for 400 dollars and I didn't, that's just straight up bad game design. There is no progression or sense of it with costumes the way they are. Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago. 7th Lancer, Corvid castigator, remnant sympothizer, face of sorrow and protectors armor are all examples of what I'm talking about. Nobody should get to start the game looking like an end game/max level character. I don't care how much you paid.

    costumes are costumes. they dont progress lol

    also, we came from another land back to verra, i assume we werent naked back there and we had clothes, not rags
  • I haven't looked up all the costumes, but I do remember some of them seeming (to me) like something only a higher level character would be wearing. It's not a deal breaker for me but it does affect the visual progression. Someone mentioned "naked with a stone axe" -- yea that's what I'd imagine everyone is supposed to look like at the beginning of their MMORPG journey. Then slap some plain looking cosmetics on top of that for variety.

    I wouldn't mind some progression criteria for the more extreme cosmetics that hardly belong on a level 1 character that hasn't yet progressed past hunting rabbits and whatnot, but that's coming from someone who hasn't invested any money on cosmetics for a game that doesn't exist, so I don't have any goodies waiting for me when the game launches.
  • DemostratheDemostrathe Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    There should be a level requirement at the very least for the high end ones. I don't care about the lore and I could care less about some of the more basic lookings costumes. A huge part of MMORPGs is progression. If I spawn in level 1 day 1 and instantly see another level 1 in legendary golden legionaires armor because they swiped their credit card for 400 dollars and I didn't, that's just straight up bad game design. There is no progression or sense of it with costumes the way they are. Arguably pay to win too because they will look way stronger than they actually are but really they're just a level 1 in rags that spawned 2 minutes ago. 7th Lancer, Corvid castigator, remnant sympothizer, face of sorrow and protectors armor are all examples of what I'm talking about. Nobody should get to start the game looking like an end game/max level character. I don't care how much you paid.

    No way dude said cosmetics are P2W 💀
    Referral Code : 8GTVW547SYDTHE6Nashesofcreation.com/r/8GTVW547SYDTHE6N
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2023
    Voeltz wrote: »
    You'd think it's obvious that an icon under a nameplate does nothing for visuals/visual progression.

    If visual progression is your only reason for playing (I hope it isn't; you'd be missing out on a great MMO), then you should consider whether Ashes is going to be the right game for you.

    Did you find that definition of pay-to-win yet? Able to link it for everyone?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    Obviously. And how do you know they don't have high level gear on behind the costume? You don't. That's my point, It can go both ways. You're making the visual progression of the game irrelevant which is a key component of MMORPGs. It's what allows you to distinguish a low level and high level character. They already have limits on cosmetic gear pieces, but not for whole costumes. Why? The higher price point? If they didn't already recognize an issue with this, there wouldn't be those restrictions. Just be consistent with the cosmetic system.
    You don't necessarily know what gear is equipped - that's part of the Risk of attacking a player.
    Visual progression is irrlevant - especially in a Fantasy setting with High Magic. Illusions are common.
    There will be other ways to distinguish a low level character from a high level character.

    Why the higher price point for what??
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