Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
You can't inspect at all. The devs made the armour tab to display rarity of gear. Not stats of gear. Class Icon will mean little too due to anyone using any weapon, augments from secondaries and augments from elsewhere. The combinations are numerous. You be best placed to know Melee or Ranged, Magical or Physical and rarity of item level.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
You can't inspect at all. The devs made the armour tab to display rarity of gear. Not stats of gear. Class Icon will mean little too due to anyone using any weapon, augments from secondaries and augments from elsewhere. The combinations are numerous. You be best placed to know Melee or Ranged, Magical or Physical and rarity of item level.
Unless it's an NDA thing and you cant talk about it, I don't really see the point of the armour tab to display rarity of gear on the target.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
You can't inspect at all. The devs made the armour tab to display rarity of gear. Not stats of gear. Class Icon will mean little too due to anyone using any weapon, augments from secondaries and augments from elsewhere. The combinations are numerous. You be best placed to know Melee or Ranged, Magical or Physical and rarity of item level.
Unless it's an NDA thing and you cant talk about it, I don't really see the point of the armour tab to display rarity of gear on the target.
Its not NDA to talk about the armour tab. I believe the armour tab is in some older videos. Anyway. You want to see rarity because you can transmog items, use costumes for items and use weapon skins from Apoc. You can even get Weapon FX and Skill FX from Kickstarter rewards. The reason the UI Element will exist is to placate the people who complained the stuff will skew all relevant data to a PvP fight. I've explained that you don't need to know the difference between the three armour types except damage taken, evasion parameters and speed of movement. The rest comes down to melee or ranged, magical or physical and whether the target can buff or heal.
Thank you for removing the minimum range requirement on the Ranger/Bow. Didn't know where else to put the news.
what's this? you mentioned in another thread
is the basic range ability just a quick nock and loose? does it allow empower/charge? does range/effectiveness play a role in that function?
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
You can't inspect at all. The devs made the armour tab to display rarity of gear. Not stats of gear. Class Icon will mean little too due to anyone using any weapon, augments from secondaries and augments from elsewhere. The combinations are numerous. You be best placed to know Melee or Ranged, Magical or Physical and rarity of item level.
Unless it's an NDA thing and you cant talk about it, I don't really see the point of the armour tab to display rarity of gear on the target.
Its not NDA to talk about the armour tab. I believe the armour tab is in some older videos. Anyway. You want to see rarity because you can transmog items, use costumes for items and use weapon skins from Apoc. You can even get Weapon FX and Skill FX from Kickstarter rewards. The reason the UI Element will exist is to placate the people who complained the stuff will skew all relevant data to a PvP fight. I've explained that you don't need to know the difference between the three armour types except damage taken, evasion parameters and speed of movement. The rest comes down to melee or ranged, magical or physical and whether the target can buff or heal.
oh that's still weird AF to me but I suppose I get why they did it. It's high fantasy, it's about how you look, not how the armor traditionally works to whatever degree.
The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
oh, type of gear predominately wearing and tier of quality. That makes more sense than rarity of gear lol.
Yeah, the quote is so old I didn't remember the full quote. I merely mentioned the armour tab which covered it all. I told you the devs would understand my request which is quite mute now lol.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
a toggle. like the toggle to choose whether to have melee or ranged weapon as primary weapon.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
a toggle. like the toggle to choose whether to have melee or ranged weapon as primary weapon.
sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're trying to suggest in full context.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
a toggle. like the toggle to choose whether to have melee or ranged weapon as primary weapon.
sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're trying to suggest in full context.
I assume you haven't read the wiki in full
Basically, I want the ability to select which is the primary function for the q basic attack. Either to come from the tab target, or the action camera. With the third option of having it automatic. I can already split attack with my abilities but I want the ability to choose which split attack my basic attack will use.
Please also have a toggle for players to decide if they want the basic attacks to trigger from Tab or Action Combat.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
a toggle. like the toggle to choose whether to have melee or ranged weapon as primary weapon.
sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're trying to suggest in full context.
I assume you haven't read the wiki in full
Basically, I want the ability to select which is the primary function for the q basic attack. Either to come from the tab target, or the action camera. With the third option of having it automatic. I can already split attack with my abilities but I want the ability to choose which split attack my basic attack will use.
naw, originally you just worded it terribly and vague lol.
How important is it for you to have basic attacks be a part of your combat rotation? Do you enjoy using other skills and abilities in between auto-attacks, or are you having the most fun when basic attacks are less important to how much damage you’re doing?
to put it another way: it would be very boring to use basic attacks all the time and just sometimes put an skill in between
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
-usually they are used as filler if your rotation has some gaps or you need to save MP
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
depends on the class, an archer can use regular attacks and use skills/abilitys for CC
an tank could block aktivly while magic useres could have a DoT or slow on there auto attack.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
i would prefer auto attacks as filler
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
In WoW (MMO I played most by far) there were different classes and speccs where auto-attacks hat different roles and I think thats a good way to go.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
Basic attacks give us something that is mostly impacted by our character setup (skills, talents, equip, ...) which I really enjoy.
It also gives the possibility for some very cool interaction between auto-attacks and active skills.
more damage on auto attacks for the next X seconds
slow-effect on auto attacks for x seconds
no auto-attacks for next x seconds but more block/parry/dodge
auto-attacks have a chance to enable an active skill (ex: in lotro the pet of the gandalf-like-class could trigger flanking-debuff via auto-attacks that enabled skills or additional effects on skills)
....
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
I think it should overall be balanced and there should be classes speccs where auto-attacks play a bigger role and some with a lesser.
Also auto-attacks and active abilities should interact with each other (see above)
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
I've played them; roles and functions vary, as stated by many.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
Basic attacks are cool, and often provide a degree of player agency. Honestly, the way New-World-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did basic attacks could have felt satisfying if the lunging/lurching and hitboxes weren't mostly awful. The roots of combat were there (it truly is sad they're tolling a tiny player base in an endless new-age alpha instead of finishing their game; I digress).
However, I feel that auto-attacks should ONLY exist in a limited capacity. I would've said 'not at all', but reading this forum thread has sparked an idea- someone mentioned how extremely fun it was as a rogue when auto attacks were an important part of a burst window when stacked with a surge-of-power type cooldown (specifically, to un-stealth and burst down healers in the backline in pvp). That story, and many other comments have influenced me to consider that auto-attacks can be fun and exiting if done right. So, instead of saying "not at all" I'm going to suggest that Auto-Attacks exist as a burst option- for example, maybe a certain class could slap a button (instant, off the global cooldown) to activate 30seconds (or whatever length of time) of auto attacking a target in melee range.
tldr; an auto-attack window could exist as an ability, for 'x' amount of time. It would allow more player agency than simply, "free damage always, because you stood *here*".
But auto attacks as a universal blanket treatment to all classes? No. Please, no.
Let me state that I am very against Damage Meters. They ruin games and reduce all meaningful choices to whatever the loudest community of jokers can sim in an environment impossibly removed from reality- then, eventually, even the casual community of players will, in a very mean way, grief all those who aren't lemmings. That said- when completing a raid and reviewing logs, seeing that the majority of melee classes are dealing the largest portion of their damage with auto-attacks, is... well, it means that the majority of the game is now ----> "Mostly, Just Stand *Here*". Maybe that even makes sense for a certain class/subclass, but I'd argue that 'massive automatic damage' should not be the state of all melee classes.
Further, I want to point out that for auto-attacks to exist, then all casters should have "auto wand" or something like it. Yes, this would be visually disconnected amid casting animations- same is already true for melee. Imagine if WoW's WotLK's Fire Mage dealt the majority of its damage with auto-wand-ing WHILE CASTING. That's just... what? Well, then why are they doing that with the melee classes....?
While I don't think unrestrained "free auto attack while performing abilities" should be baseline for melee OR casters, it could exist more like the 'burst window' as mentioned above; but for casters (or even melee), this is achievable in a visually pleasing way, by producing something along the lines of the Arc Soul from Desinty 2's Arc Warlock, which is a little orb buddy that floats near your shoulder for a bit of time, auto-firing little projectiles at a target within range- this is just an example of 'auto attack' damage from a limited distance, and obviously this could be done umpteen different ways tailored to class fantasy, both single or multi target. I'm just using the Arc Soul to allude to the root of the "automatic damaging attacks" discussion, to get people to think about auto attacks as less of a melee issue, and more as a "free damage" issue... because if it's viewed more as a "free damage" issue, than perhaps it could be agreed upon that "auto attacks" should not be a limitless, uninteresting and forgettable crutch for melee combat.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
I'd like to see basic attacks and abilities be the meat & potatoes. Auto attack windows could be sprinkled in, to varying degree's, and could be much stronger on some classes- whatever makes sense to the balance and the fantasy.
Lastly, I'm just a guy who plays games. It's just an idea from an average gamer, and it's not in a flawless state. My main argument is that less "limitless automatic attacks" will deliver more player agency, thus more interesting and rewarding gameplay.
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
In Eq they were very important for a melee type, they did most of your damage. The damage was calculated from the weapon and speed of the weapon along with your stats. In Daoc they were a place holder form of damage that if you were not able to use a skill you at least could do a basic attack and help with the damage. In most current games basic attacks are used as a filler for waiting on ability cool downs.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
I think they are an important aspect to combat but should not be the main focus like EQ. Having them be the main focus makes combat more boring. I have always felt that Daoc had the best idea when it came to auto attacks. Many of the skills in Daoc for melee types depended on positioning. They also had combo skills that could make a good chain of attacks yet if you missed an attack your character would auto attack. Skills would use stamina and at times you would run out and be left only auto attacking, while your stamina would regenerate.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
I would keep auto attacks but have them be used as little as possible. I also don't like cool downs on abilities. I would prefer positioning and situational abilities that are not always guarantied to work if the situation changes. Without cooldowns your abilities have to be weaker so you cant just spam one ability that does tons of damage. If you have cooldowns than your abilities could do more damage. Thus I would say that if you don't use an ability an auto attack can occur. this way your at least helping the fight but the auto attack should not do a lot of damage just your base line damage.
I have seen some people talk about casters and auto wand attacks etc. Depending on how the damage of spells vs melee is balanced should decide if that is a needed element. Ie if your spell damage is more on the low end than auto attack with a wand is a good idea, however if a spell does a ton of damage then adding auto attacking wands hurts the balance of game.
Hopefully basic attacks are more meaningful in AOC. Auto attacks in a lot of other games just don't seem impactful and I hope that basic attacks are not performed automatically.
I'd love to see basic attack combos that can be expanded as your weapon levels up. In Dragon's Dogma for example, your light weapon attack combo changes on the timing of your swings. For example:
Combo 1: Attack, Attack, Attack (basic 3 swing combo)
Combo 2: Attack, Attack, (Pause), Attack, Attack, Attack (5 hit combo, with 3 quick attacks after the pause)
This combo is pretty basic, but it created super engaging combat, even when you only using your basic weapon attacks. Dragon's Dogma 2 is expanding even further on this concept. I know there's a lot of differences between a single player action rpg and a MMORPG, but the feeling of DD's combat system is on another level and if AOC can take some inspiration from it, the combat will feel much better and more engaging.
“To know the Gods, we must first know ourselves. Science is our looking glass.”
Can we also get an active bar switch dependant on which type of weapon we have active - ranged weapon or melee weapon so the combat rotation chosen can accompany the basic attacks.
Can we also get an active bar switch dependant on which type of weapon we have active - ranged weapon or melee weapon so the combat rotation chosen can accompany the basic attacks.
I do like games like that where your bar changes when you change weapons. 100% would like that feature!
Can we also get an active bar switch dependant on which type of weapon we have active - ranged weapon or melee weapon so the combat rotation chosen can accompany the basic attacks.
I do like games like that where your bar changes when you change weapons. 100% would like that feature!
BDO has a feature like that one of the skills lets you hold it to charge it up and as you hold it, you active block dmg in front of you.
If stances (defensive, offensives, balanced, etc) are included in the game for specific archetypes, then to add to the game quality, the base attacks could differ based on the stance the character is in.
I have played MMO's with autoattack (Everquest, World of Warcraft), MMO's with basic attack (Elder Scrolls online with light and heavy attacks), and MMO's without either, or so called action attacks (New World).
What ever you do, please do not implement attack weaving as they did in ESO. It is a horrible thing.
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
For old school tab-target MMO's, basic attacks was melee-classes primary source of damage, and the raid's sustained damage. Many classes had skills that directly impacted auto-attacks, like chance to hit, chance to crit, double attacks, triple attacks, etc.
While moving up to a target, and hitting a single button to engage automatic attacking is no longer as engaging as it once was (due to the development of games over the years), I would accept both it's presence and absense. I don't consider it directly detrimental, nor crucial for good melee gameplay experience.
A well designed game can most likely come up with something that feels much better and more impactful.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
Avid making basic attacks a simple rescource generating tool. I prefer class-specific rescoureces that have different implementations.
Rage that build up over time, and unlock large bonuses for a short burst of damage.
Perfect hit's let you build up to a finisher, similar to WoW's combo points.
Mana as a self-recharging battery of energy.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation? Rotations should be based on abilities, not timed to auto-attacks or mixed with basic attacks.
To add to this thread, I don't think it's fun to no-life AI bosses/monsters and dungeons/raids endlessly to get the perfect gear and get behind everyone when new expansion comes out. I'd rather like to have an endgame gear (legendary gear for example) that we work hard for it but it will always be the S tier gear no matter what expansion they deliver post-launch. After that, it's all about complex hard-to-learn mechanics (skills rotation, boss/raids mechanics, game knowledge, reaction time to dodge, etc) that determines if a person win the fight or not.
There're plenty of system we can put in the game that can make the character's progression feel rewarding/enjoyable.
Comments
Bow has a minimum range function. This used to affect Ranger but Steven said it no longer affects ranger.
Edit: Also, please make the UI Elements for Rarity of Armours not be hover-able. Please make it visible at all times whilst a person is selected. Don't want to waste precious seconds in combat to hover over UI elements.
oh, a minimum range function. That could've been weird for basic attacks.
also, you want to be able to see the targets armour rarity as a UI feature? That's weird to me especially without more context.
There's a UI tab that already exists. I merely want that visible at all times rather than a hoverable tab. The devs will understand what I mean even if they refuse the request.
The only thing that should be available of the target player is the HP bar, Resource bar, and the "class" icon in my opinion and not necessarily the values that tie to it. I'm not even a fan of being able to inspect during combat to see hidden stats and gear etc.
You can't inspect at all. The devs made the armour tab to display rarity of gear. Not stats of gear. Class Icon will mean little too due to anyone using any weapon, augments from secondaries and augments from elsewhere. The combinations are numerous. You be best placed to know Melee or Ranged, Magical or Physical and rarity of item level.
Unless it's an NDA thing and you cant talk about it, I don't really see the point of the armour tab to display rarity of gear on the target.
Its not NDA to talk about the armour tab. I believe the armour tab is in some older videos. Anyway. You want to see rarity because you can transmog items, use costumes for items and use weapon skins from Apoc. You can even get Weapon FX and Skill FX from Kickstarter rewards. The reason the UI Element will exist is to placate the people who complained the stuff will skew all relevant data to a PvP fight. I've explained that you don't need to know the difference between the three armour types except damage taken, evasion parameters and speed of movement. The rest comes down to melee or ranged, magical or physical and whether the target can buff or heal.
oh that's still weird AF to me but I suppose I get why they did it. It's high fantasy, it's about how you look, not how the armor traditionally works to whatever degree.
but ok, thank you for explaining.
Turns out the tab is actually the nameplate now.
The "type" of armor (cloth, leather, plate) a character is predominantly wearing is visible in their nameplate.[31][51]
There will be strengths and weaknesses for armor sets that opponents can exploit with gear enhancements, for example.[31]
53:08
oh, type of gear predominately wearing and tier of quality. That makes more sense than rarity of gear lol.
Yeah, the quote is so old I didn't remember the full quote. I merely mentioned the armour tab which covered it all. I told you the devs would understand my request which is quite mute now lol.
wouldn't pushing the button to use a basic attack be the same thing? how and why would a target lock affect that?
unless you're assuming basic attacks and auto attack would be two different things?
auto attacks are essentially basic attacks, just auto instead of manual. Auto attacks should never be a thing, it's like watching a boxing match but their arms are just wind milling until they throw a punch lol
I'm not asking for auto attack. I want the ability to select whether I want tab to be used to target and press q or if I want action camera to be used and press q.
so what exactly did you imply with trigger from switching between the two modes? sounds like what you're asking for is options for key binds.
a toggle. like the toggle to choose whether to have melee or ranged weapon as primary weapon.
sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're trying to suggest in full context.
I assume you haven't read the wiki in full
Basically, I want the ability to select which is the primary function for the q basic attack. Either to come from the tab target, or the action camera. With the third option of having it automatic. I can already split attack with my abilities but I want the ability to choose which split attack my basic attack will use.
naw, originally you just worded it terribly and vague lol.
I get what you mean now.
to put it another way: it would be very boring to use basic attacks all the time and just sometimes put an skill in between
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
-usually they are used as filler if your rotation has some gaps or you need to save MP
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
depends on the class, an archer can use regular attacks and use skills/abilitys for CC
an tank could block aktivly while magic useres could have a DoT or slow on there auto attack.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
i would prefer auto attacks as filler
Basic attacks give us something that is mostly impacted by our character setup (skills, talents, equip, ...) which I really enjoy.
It also gives the possibility for some very cool interaction between auto-attacks and active skills.
- more damage on auto attacks for the next X seconds
- slow-effect on auto attacks for x seconds
- no auto-attacks for next x seconds but more block/parry/dodge
- auto-attacks have a chance to enable an active skill (ex: in lotro the pet of the gandalf-like-class could trigger flanking-debuff via auto-attacks that enabled skills or additional effects on skills)
- ....
I think it should overall be balanced and there should be classes speccs where auto-attacks play a bigger role and some with a lesser.Also auto-attacks and active abilities should interact with each other (see above)
I've played them; roles and functions vary, as stated by many.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
Basic attacks are cool, and often provide a degree of player agency. Honestly, the way New-World-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did basic attacks could have felt satisfying if the lunging/lurching and hitboxes weren't mostly awful. The roots of combat were there (it truly is sad they're tolling a tiny player base in an endless new-age alpha instead of finishing their game; I digress).
However, I feel that auto-attacks should ONLY exist in a limited capacity. I would've said 'not at all', but reading this forum thread has sparked an idea- someone mentioned how extremely fun it was as a rogue when auto attacks were an important part of a burst window when stacked with a surge-of-power type cooldown (specifically, to un-stealth and burst down healers in the backline in pvp). That story, and many other comments have influenced me to consider that auto-attacks can be fun and exiting if done right. So, instead of saying "not at all" I'm going to suggest that Auto-Attacks exist as a burst option- for example, maybe a certain class could slap a button (instant, off the global cooldown) to activate 30seconds (or whatever length of time) of auto attacking a target in melee range.
tldr; an auto-attack window could exist as an ability, for 'x' amount of time. It would allow more player agency than simply, "free damage always, because you stood *here*".
But auto attacks as a universal blanket treatment to all classes? No. Please, no.
Let me state that I am very against Damage Meters. They ruin games and reduce all meaningful choices to whatever the loudest community of jokers can sim in an environment impossibly removed from reality- then, eventually, even the casual community of players will, in a very mean way, grief all those who aren't lemmings. That said- when completing a raid and reviewing logs, seeing that the majority of melee classes are dealing the largest portion of their damage with auto-attacks, is... well, it means that the majority of the game is now ----> "Mostly, Just Stand *Here*". Maybe that even makes sense for a certain class/subclass, but I'd argue that 'massive automatic damage' should not be the state of all melee classes.
Further, I want to point out that for auto-attacks to exist, then all casters should have "auto wand" or something like it. Yes, this would be visually disconnected amid casting animations- same is already true for melee. Imagine if WoW's WotLK's Fire Mage dealt the majority of its damage with auto-wand-ing WHILE CASTING. That's just... what? Well, then why are they doing that with the melee classes....?
While I don't think unrestrained "free auto attack while performing abilities" should be baseline for melee OR casters, it could exist more like the 'burst window' as mentioned above; but for casters (or even melee), this is achievable in a visually pleasing way, by producing something along the lines of the Arc Soul from Desinty 2's Arc Warlock, which is a little orb buddy that floats near your shoulder for a bit of time, auto-firing little projectiles at a target within range- this is just an example of 'auto attack' damage from a limited distance, and obviously this could be done umpteen different ways tailored to class fantasy, both single or multi target. I'm just using the Arc Soul to allude to the root of the "automatic damaging attacks" discussion, to get people to think about auto attacks as less of a melee issue, and more as a "free damage" issue... because if it's viewed more as a "free damage" issue, than perhaps it could be agreed upon that "auto attacks" should not be a limitless, uninteresting and forgettable crutch for melee combat.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
I'd like to see basic attacks and abilities be the meat & potatoes. Auto attack windows could be sprinkled in, to varying degree's, and could be much stronger on some classes- whatever makes sense to the balance and the fantasy.
Lastly, I'm just a guy who plays games. It's just an idea from an average gamer, and it's not in a flawless state. My main argument is that less "limitless automatic attacks" will deliver more player agency, thus more interesting and rewarding gameplay.
In Eq they were very important for a melee type, they did most of your damage. The damage was calculated from the weapon and speed of the weapon along with your stats. In Daoc they were a place holder form of damage that if you were not able to use a skill you at least could do a basic attack and help with the damage. In most current games basic attacks are used as a filler for waiting on ability cool downs.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
I think they are an important aspect to combat but should not be the main focus like EQ. Having them be the main focus makes combat more boring. I have always felt that Daoc had the best idea when it came to auto attacks. Many of the skills in Daoc for melee types depended on positioning. They also had combo skills that could make a good chain of attacks yet if you missed an attack your character would auto attack. Skills would use stamina and at times you would run out and be left only auto attacking, while your stamina would regenerate.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation?
I would keep auto attacks but have them be used as little as possible. I also don't like cool downs on abilities. I would prefer positioning and situational abilities that are not always guarantied to work if the situation changes. Without cooldowns your abilities have to be weaker so you cant just spam one ability that does tons of damage. If you have cooldowns than your abilities could do more damage. Thus I would say that if you don't use an ability an auto attack can occur. this way your at least helping the fight but the auto attack should not do a lot of damage just your base line damage.
I have seen some people talk about casters and auto wand attacks etc. Depending on how the damage of spells vs melee is balanced should decide if that is a needed element. Ie if your spell damage is more on the low end than auto attack with a wand is a good idea, however if a spell does a ton of damage then adding auto attacking wands hurts the balance of game.
I'd love to see basic attack combos that can be expanded as your weapon levels up. In Dragon's Dogma for example, your light weapon attack combo changes on the timing of your swings. For example:
Combo 1: Attack, Attack, Attack (basic 3 swing combo)
Combo 2: Attack, Attack, (Pause), Attack, Attack, Attack (5 hit combo, with 3 quick attacks after the pause)
This combo is pretty basic, but it created super engaging combat, even when you only using your basic weapon attacks. Dragon's Dogma 2 is expanding even further on this concept. I know there's a lot of differences between a single player action rpg and a MMORPG, but the feeling of DD's combat system is on another level and if AOC can take some inspiration from it, the combat will feel much better and more engaging.
I do like games like that where your bar changes when you change weapons. 100% would like that feature!
BDO has a feature like that one of the skills lets you hold it to charge it up and as you hold it, you active block dmg in front of you.
What ever you do, please do not implement attack weaving as they did in ESO. It is a horrible thing.
What role and function have basic attacks or auto-attacks had in previous MMORPGs you’ve played?
For old school tab-target MMO's, basic attacks was melee-classes primary source of damage, and the raid's sustained damage. Many classes had skills that directly impacted auto-attacks, like chance to hit, chance to crit, double attacks, triple attacks, etc.
While moving up to a target, and hitting a single button to engage automatic attacking is no longer as engaging as it once was (due to the development of games over the years), I would accept both it's presence and absense. I don't consider it directly detrimental, nor crucial for good melee gameplay experience.
A well designed game can most likely come up with something that feels much better and more impactful.
What role do you feel basic attacks and auto-attacks should play in MMORPG combat?
Avid making basic attacks a simple rescource generating tool. I prefer class-specific rescoureces that have different implementations.
Rage that build up over time, and unlock large bonuses for a short burst of damage.
Perfect hit's let you build up to a finisher, similar to WoW's combo points.
Mana as a self-recharging battery of energy.
Do you want your rotation to be mostly abilities, or do you want to have auto-attacks be important in your rotation? Rotations should be based on abilities, not timed to auto-attacks or mixed with basic attacks.
There're plenty of system we can put in the game that can make the character's progression feel rewarding/enjoyable.