Rewards for Node development Question based on Race

I don't know if this is a problem or not, but as far as I understand it, the race that puts the most progress towards a node's development is what determines the architecture when the node finishes development. To me, this seems like something that will 100% be rigged by discord guilds essentially denying people access to their guild if they are not the race they want doing development in a node they want... this seems a bit off to me.

Wouldn't it make more sense to do either of the following:

The mayor elect determines the architecture style upon being elected

OR

The mayor elect determines the style after being elected

OR

The mayor elect can mix and match architecture styles across the buildings in their node based upon work order renovations

For some reason this makes more sense to me, but I wonder does anyone else here agree? If not, if you care to elaborate why I'm wrong, that will suffice too

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Azherae

We're pretty sure the conflict is the point.

Ludullu

Yep, conflict is the point. You think some discord kittens are trying to prevent you from doing something? Do smth about it in the game. Usually that means "go to war; participate in subterfuge; politics your way out; punch people in the face until they leave that node; etc"

Soft friction and all that good stuff.

Kilion

bloodandthunder wrote: »

To me, this seems like something that will 100% be rigged by discord guilds essentially denying people access to their guild if they are not the race they want doing development in a node they want... this seems a bit off to me.

The underlying assumptions here seem to be:

There are enough of these "discord guilds" to globaly deny other players major influence.
Players will care so much about the architecture that it will be a reason for conflict.

If I am correct with that I'd point out that I think both are incorrect. There will be enough players with no preference for architecture as long as they are the number 1 node in the region and they are not picky about who their allies are. And I also doubt that the number of architecture obsessed players is high enough for this to be more than an occasional reason for conflict.

Also I don't see the mayor being able to "solve" the problem you proposed. The same discord guild could just overwhelm anyone else in the election and then freely decide on the architecture.

unknownsystemerror

Ahhhh, the ole "Ashes is going to be a race war!" thread. I have missed it. It only shows up every few years now. Don't worry, @Dygz and @Noaani will be along shortly to fan the flames of war. Me? I am going to go make a new batch of popcorn.

Enigmatic Sage

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

Ahhhh, the ole "Ashes is going to be a race war!" thread. I have missed it. It only shows up every few years now. Don't worry, @Dygz and @Noaani will be along shortly to fan the flames of war. Me? I am going to go make a new batch of popcorn.

hopefully the flames will be large enough so you can cook the popcorn from a front row seat lol

Dygz

Oh. Not "Ashes is going to be a race war", but yes...
Race will be one motive for Sieges and...
Noanni will argue that Race wiil just be insignificant.

Tyranthraxus

Am planning on joining up with a group of branchler-Elves, and to bury ourselves deep in the forest, somewhere. Humans and Elves do seem quite popular in MMOs, but AoC seems to have some rather expressive Dwarven organizations, even this early.

I'm also sure the Tulnar archetecture will be *quite* prevalent in the Underrealm, since I can't think of a reason for non-Tulnar to opt for the Underrealm starting-area, once the game begins.

Orcish archetecture will probably be a scarcity. Will have to roll some alts on a server wherein they manage to take a foothold, to check it out. Haven't seen a lot of to-be Orc guilds, yet.

Raven016

Dygz wrote: »

Oh. Not "Ashes is going to be a race war", but yes...
Race will be one motive for Sieges and...
Noanni will argue that Race wiil just be insignificant.

Are those who value the race look of buildings in the nodes typically good PvPers?
I have the feeling that PvPers have other concerns than race alignment of the node. Or will race bring some advantages and disadvantages to nodes?

Raven016

bloodandthunder wrote: »

For some reason this makes more sense to me, but I wonder does anyone else here agree? If not, if you care to elaborate why I'm wrong, that will suffice too

Is not clear to me if mayors can win elections without large guild support.
So your suggestion would give even more influence to a few, potentially one large guild. But you say you want to prevent that.

Also a node has many guilds. Guilds try to grow a good community and will try to stay together even if their node falls.
Player's character race will not matter.

bloodandthunder wrote: »

I don't know if this is a problem or not, but as far as I understand it, the race that puts the most progress towards a node's development is what determines the architecture when the node finishes development.

The interesting case is thar players contribute to node development even if are not citizens of the node. So tulnar merchants will have an influence too.

Dygz

Raven016 wrote: »

Are those who value the race look of buildings in the nodes typically good PvPers?
I have the feeling that PvPers have other concerns than race alignment of the node. Or will race bring some advantages and disadvantages to nodes?

There is also Racial Progression.
Steven has confirmed that completion of Racial Progression is tied to having a Metro with your Race dominant on the server.
If a PvPer builds their character around Racial Progression advantages, you can expect them to push to have a Metro with their Race dominant on the server.

Really has nothing to do with the architecture appearance.

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

Raven016 wrote: »

Are those who value the race look of buildings in the nodes typically good PvPers?
I have the feeling that PvPers have other concerns than race alignment of the node. Or will race bring some advantages and disadvantages to nodes?

There is also Racial Progression.
Steven has confirmed that completion of Racial Progression is tied to having a Metro with your Race dominant on the server.
If a PvPer builds their character around Racial Progression advantages, you can expect them to push to have a Metro with their Race dominant on the server.

Really has nothing to do with the architecture appearance.

Do we know if the progression dips and rises with the metro's existence? or will the progression be at peak once the peak is unlocked?

Dygz

I dunno what you mean by "at peak".
You can expect that the NPCs that help with the final stages of Racial Progression will not be around if there is no Metro for that Race. We'll have to see if that includes Racial forms of Social Progression and Religious Progression

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

I dunno what you mean by "at peak".
You can expect that the NPCs that help with the final stages of Racial Progression will not be around if there is no Metro for that Race. We'll have to see if that includes Racial forms of Social Progression and Religious Progression

Yes, I understand that point - that only blocks off new players from reaching peak. But, those who have already unlocked the peak should keep the peak irrespective of what NPCs are existent in the world after the feat.

Edit: I call it the peak because I don't know what else to call the ultimate unlock for the paradigms.

Dygz

I don't no why you say only new players since Ashes is a dynamic game, rather than a static game.
Some veteran players may never have a Metro on their server that has their Race as dominant.

I also don't know what you mean by "ultimate". You can expect plenty of horizontal progression at the vertical max of Racial Progression.

Maybe you are confusing Racial Progression with Node Type Super Powers???

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

I don't no why you say only new players since Ashes is a dynamic game, rather than a static game.
Some veteran players may never have a Metro on their server that has their Race as dominant.

I also don't know what you mean by "ultimate". You can expect plenty of horizontal progression at the vertical max of Racial Progression.

Sometimes its like drawing blood from a stone. I call them new players because they are new to the feat. I also call it peak or ultimate because its the end stance of the progression. I can't say 'Racial Tattoos' or 'Racial Inheritance' because I don't know what the end progression will be and neither do you.

Dygz

It's not my fault that what you think makes little sense.
New to what feat? And why would those be "new players"???

Vertical max is not the "end stance of the progression" in a game with a plethora of horizontal progression.
The NPCs that provide the quests related to Stage 6 Racial Progression will not be available if the server does not have a Metro with that dominant Race.
And, sure, that could be a variety of gear and augments and tattoos and Artisan recipes.... a whole bunch of stuff. That will only remain available while that Metro remains on the server.

It's not like everyone of that Race will immediately gain access to some "peak" or "ultimate".
People will be missing out for a variety of reasons...

There are 5 Metros and 9 Races.
And, once a Metro is destroyed, the player characters who did not obtain all the stuff they wanted will have to wait until another Metro with their Racial type appears.
Also, keep in mind that having a Vek City does not guarantee it will become a Vek Metro when that Node pops to Stage 6. You can expect those Vek characters to be motivated to destroy that Metro and try again for a Vek Metro, if there is no Vek Metro on that server.

But, you can also expect the 4+ Races that have no Metro on the server to be motivated to construct a Metro for their Race. Veterans as well as newbies.

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

It's not my fault that what you think makes little sense.
New to what feat? And why would those be "new players"???

Vertical max is not the "end stance of the progression" in a game with a plethora of horizontal progression.
The NPCs that provide the quests related to Stage 6 Racial Progression will not be available if the server does not have a Metro with that dominant Race.
And, sure, that could be a variety of gear and augments and tattoos and Artisan recipes.... a whole bunch of stuff. That will only remain available while that Metro remains on the server.

It's not like everyone of that Race will immediately gain access to some "peak" or "ultimate".
People will be missing out for a variety of reasons...

There are 5 Metros and 9 Races.
And, once a Metro is destroyed, the player characters who did not obtain all the stuff they wanted will have to wait until another Metro with their Racial type appears.
Also, keep in mind that having a Vek City does not guarantee it will become a Vek Metro when that Node pops to Stage 6. You can expect those Vek characters to be motivated to destroy that Metro and try again for a Vek Metro, if there is no Vek Metro on that server.

But, you can also expect the 4+ Races that have no Metro on the server to be motivated to construct a Metro for their Race. Veterans as well as newbies.

There must be tasks to complete the feat of unlocking all the augments. I doubt you can magically unlock all augments just because an NPC suddenly pops up. Surely, the NPC must give access to something in order to unlock augments in sequence. Much the same as the other social organisations. They would be new players because they are new to the unlock sequence. If I've played twenty years and never touched the arena and then after twenty years start doing arena I am new to arena.

It really comes down to semantics and my application of my intelligence to a circular problem like usual.

Taleof2Cities

I think even the Discord kittens view this as a First World problem.

Dygz

Neurath wrote: »

There must be tasks to complete the feat of unlocking all the augments. I doubt you can magically unlock all augments just because an NPC suddenly pops up. Surely, the NPC must give access to something in order to unlock augments in sequence. Much the same as the other social organisations. They would be new players because they are new to the unlock sequence. If I've played twenty years and never touched the arena and then after twenty years start doing arena I am new to arena.

It really comes down to semantics and my application of my intelligence to a circular problem like usual.

I don't know why you mention "all".
You can expect a bunch of NPCs, not just one. But, those Racial NPCs only appear when the Node has that Racial type as the dominant Race.
Whether the player is new or veteran is irrelevant. Doesn't really even matter if it's a new player character.

And, no... it's not semantics. It's actual mechanics.

Songcaller

Dygz wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

There must be tasks to complete the feat of unlocking all the augments. I doubt you can magically unlock all augments just because an NPC suddenly pops up. Surely, the NPC must give access to something in order to unlock augments in sequence. Much the same as the other social organisations. They would be new players because they are new to the unlock sequence. If I've played twenty years and never touched the arena and then after twenty years start doing arena I am new to arena.

It really comes down to semantics and my application of my intelligence to a circular problem like usual.

I don't know why you mention "all".
You can expect a bunch of NPCs, not just one. But, those Racial NPCs only appear when the Node has that Racial type as the dominant Race.
Whether the player is new or veteran is irrelevant. Doesn't really even matter if it's a new player character.

And, no... it's not semantics. It's actual mechanics.

The argument about mechanics is semantics because you combat the labels and not the undercurrent ideation. I never even used the word 'all' in that post. It matters because I wondered whether the augments disappear with the loss of the node.

I differentiated between those who do not have the augments with those who do by using the term new. Thus, new players won't have access with the loss of a node and old players could lose the progress with the loss of a node.

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