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Rewards for Node development Question based on Race

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Its not a poor analogy at all.
    I said what I said.
    I'm done discussing that with you.

    Excellent. Defeat can taste bitter but taste buds love the bitter tastes when one is older.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    I understand that the Racial Progression refers to an individual character.
    I made the assumptions that:
    - it will be rather horizontal than vertical
    - players will want to play multiple races
    - those who want the horizontal progression, will want it for each race they chose.
    It's both vertical and horizontal.
    Some players will want to play multiple races. Doesn't mean all of their characters (alts) will be focused on Racial Progression.


    Raven016 wrote: »
    If I start on a server a few months after the launch and if I also know about the racial progression, I might chose a race which already has a metro. Or I chose a server with a metro I want, if possible.
    If I start at launch, I spend some time leveling and then I notice that I have no metro with my race, I would decide to either create an alt with another race and start leveling again in one of the 5 metros or I would focus on something else, like artisan progression. Eventually I will make alts anyway.
    You could start on a server that already has Metro with the dominant Race of your character.
    There is no guarantee that the server will still have a Metro with the dominant Race of your character by the time you reach max Adventurer Level (or whatever Level it is that can begin using the Stage 6 Racial perks and Augments.)
    If I'm trying to build a Py'Rai Tank focused on Py'Rai Progression and the 5 Metros on the server don't include Py'Rai as the dominant Race, it will behoove me to destroy one of those 5 to make room for a Py'Rai Metro.


    Raven016 wrote: »
    But if you say that the racial progression has a vertical part too, then players who have the metros, will have the advantage of being better than the rest, because they completed their progression. That moves the balance a bit in their advantage, in addition to the fact that metros have strong defenses. This could make metros survive even longer. The balance doesn't feel good this way because the state discourage change. It is like a ball in a depression instead of being on a horizontal surface. The game balance should favor neither change nor stagnation.
    I'm not sure what "advantage" means.
    Some player characters will be interested in focusing on their Racial Progression, some player characters won't be interested in that. Some player characters may only want a few Stage 6 Racial perks and Augments, while other player characters want the as many as possible.
    It's not really about advantage, rather it's about how each individual player character is built.
    It's not more advantageous to focus on Racial Augments rather than Secondary Archetype Augments or Social Org Augments or Religious Augments. It's just a choice of how you want to build that specific character. But, if you want your character to acquire Stage 6 Racial perks and Augments, there has to be a Stage 6 Node with your dominant Race for those Racial perks and Augments to be available to acquire.

    There is no "balance" advantage that I can see.
    I also don't know what you mean by "completed their progression".
    You can still "complete" your Adventurer progression by focusing on Stage 6 Secondary Archetype perks and Augments or by focusing on Stage 6 Social Org perks and Augments or by focusing on Stage 6 Religious perks and Augments.
    But, if you want to build your character with Stage 6 Racial perks and Augments, there will have to be a Stage 6 Metro where your Race is the dominant Race in order for those perks and Augments to be available to acquire.

    I don't know what you mean by "the state discourages change".
    It's not really about what the "state" wants. It's really about whether there are enough like-minded players on the server to support or overthrow the "state".
    When my Py'Rai City popped to a Dünir Metro, was that luck? Are there enough players on the server who would prefer a Py'Rai Metro, rather than a Dünir Metro? Can I find enough allies to help me destroy that Dünir Metro so we can have a Py'Rai Metro on the server?
    What happens if a Dünir City becomes a Tulnar Metro... and the server doesn't want a Tulnar Metro?

    Racial Progression has no effect on game balance.
    It's just a matter of what types of Metros players want on each server - and how much support or opposition people can garner to maintain the desired Metros.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited October 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    I understand that the Racial Progression refers to an individual character.
    I made the assumptions that:
    - it will be rather horizontal than vertical
    - players will want to play multiple races
    - those who want the horizontal progression, will want it for each race they chose.
    It's both vertical and horizontal.
    Some players will want to play multiple races. Doesn't mean all of their characters (alts) will be focused on Racial Progression.
    What is the difference between horizontal and vertical progression?
    Could be that I understand something different, based on what meaning I deduced reading forum posts.

    Is it not about how much advantage / power it brings in combat or whatever the game needs to defend nodes?
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    Dygz wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    If I start on a server a few months after the launch and if I also know about the racial progression, I might chose a race which already has a metro. Or I chose a server with a metro I want, if possible.
    If I start at launch, I spend some time leveling and then I notice that I have no metro with my race, I would decide to either create an alt with another race and start leveling again in one of the 5 metros or I would focus on something else, like artisan progression. Eventually I will make alts anyway.
    You could start on a server that already has Metro with the dominant Race of your character.
    There is no guarantee that the server will still have a Metro with the dominant Race of your character by the time you reach max Adventurer Level (or whatever Level it is that can begin using the Stage 6 Racial perks and Augments.)
    If I'm trying to build a Py'Rai Tank focused on Py'Rai Progression and the 5 Metros on the server don't include Py'Rai as the dominant Race, it will behoove me to destroy one of those 5 to make room for a Py'Rai Metro.
    That would be like for all players at server launch.
    But at server launch players have higher risk as they do not have a view about the politics yet. A metro which leveled up recently after server start will have good chances to survive long enough to allow players to level up a character with that race.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Raven016 wrote: »
    What is the difference between horizontal and vertical progression?
    Could be that I understand something different, based on what meaning I deduced reading forum posts.
    Vertical progression provides an increase in damage or health - higher numbers.
    Horizontal progression provides a diversity of types or methods.

    Vertical Racial Progression does not make a character more or less powerful than a character that is instead pursuing Social Org Progression or Religion Progression.
    Same way that Tank/Rogue is not inherently more powerful than a Tank/Fighter.
    A Py'Rai Tank/Rogue is not inherently more powerful than a Dunir Tank/Rogue.
    A Py'Rai Tank/Rogue that focuses on Racial Progression is not inherently more powerful than a Py'Rai Tank Rogue who ignores Racial Progression.
    But, all of those characters will feel different and play their combat roles differently.

    Just as you can't get Stage 6 Secondary Archetype Augments if there is no Stage 6 Metro where Stage 6 Augments are available, you can't get Stage 6 Racial Augments if there is no Stage 6 Metro where Stage 6 Racial Augments are available.
    If the is no Py'Rai Metro for my Py'Rai Tank/Rogue, I can still max the Adventurer levels of that character at a Vek Metro. But, I would have to use Stage 6 Secondary Archetype Augments or Stage 6 Religion Augments instead of using Stage 6 Py'Rai Augments.
    Which is less than ideal if I'm trying to build a Py'Rai Tank/Rogue with a Racial build rather than a Py'Rai Tank/Rogue with a Religion build.



    Raven016 wrote: »
    That would be like for all players at server launch.
    But at server launch players have higher risk as they do not have a view about the politics yet. A metro which leveled up recently after server start will have good chances to survive long enough to allow players to level up a character with that race.
    That is all too vague to have any meaning.
    A higher risk of what??
    There is no way to ascertain or anticipate good chances to survive for long. Sieges happen - for a variety of reasons.
    I can progress my Py'Rai Tank/Rogue to max Adventurer level in any Metro. Doesn't mean I can build that character the way I want to because the NPCs I need (for quests and rewards) won't exist until there is a Metro that produces those specific types of NPCs.

    You have to be very specific with what type of Metro is available on the server to have a hope of having a meaningful example.
    A Node which recently progressed to Stage 6 Metro will last long enough for some players to max their characters. True.
    And if it's a Py'Rai Metro and I've been playing since launch, I will probably have time to reach the vertical max of my Racial progression. But, that's assuming that one of the 5 Metros on that server is a Py'Rai Metro.
    Horizontal Racial Progression is potentially endless.

    If there is no Py'Rai Metro on the server, I'm going to want to destroy one of the Metros and strive to create a Py'Rai Metro.
    Similarly, if one of the 5 Metros is not a Scientific Node and I want my server to have a Fast Travel Super Power, I'm going to want to destroy one of the Metros and strive to create a Scientific Metro.

    Sure, probably the longer a Metro stands, the more diffiuclt it will be to destroy it.
    How difficult it will be for me to accomplish my goals and how many like-minded allies I might have to support those goals on a specific server is a different discussion topic, though.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    bloodandthunder wrote: »

    The mayor elect determines the architecture style upon being elected

    OR

    The mayor elect determines the style after being elected

    OR

    The mayor elect can mix and match architecture styles across the buildings in their node based upon work order renovations

    For some reason this makes more sense to me, but I wonder does anyone else here agree? If not, if you care to elaborate why I'm wrong, that will suffice too :smile:
    Keep in mind that it's not just the style of Architecture, it's also the Race of NPCs.
    And, it certainly would not make sense for the Mayor Elect to determine the Race of the NPCs.
    Also, those specific NPCs will determine the specifics of the quests and rewards that become available.
    We can also expect the Race of the NPCs to influence the mobs that become available.
    And for that to significantly affect the Events system.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited October 2023
    Dygz wrote: »
    How difficult it will be for me to accomplish my goals and how many like-minded allies I might have to support those goals on a specific server is a different discussion topic, though.

    Life will be hard :smile:
    I'd like to have a freehold too.
    You explained well and I guess is clear for me now.
    Thank you.

    Now if nobody else disagree, the thread will die.
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    @Dygz Do the biomes have any affect on the racial progression and augments?

    IE: an elf dominant metro in river lands vs elf dominant metro in mountains?

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    We know that Py'Rai dominant Scientific Metros will offer different quests than Py'Rai dominant Economic Metros and also different than Empyrean dominant Scientific Nodes.

    It has been said that different Seasons can significantly change which mobs appear or disappear from the world. And that Weather can significantly impact travel by shutting down roads.
    Seems likely that would also affect what quests are available.
    We have not been told that different Races will respond differently to specific Seasons or Weather.

    Py'Rai revere plant life. We'll have to see if Py'Rai Racial quests in Forests and Jungles are significantly different than Empyrian Racial quests in the same Biomes. And we'll have to see if Py'Rai Racial quests are different than Py'Rai Racial quests in Deserts and Snow Mountains.

    We know that Secondary Archetypes each have 4 different Augment Schools.
    We don't know how many different Schools each Race might have in Racial Progression.
    Could be that some of the Racial Augment Schools are associated with specific Biomes.
    If that's the case, it could be that the quests to acquire those Racial Augments are only available when both criteria are met - eg, quests to acquire Py'Rai Arctic School Augments are only available in Arctic Biome Nodes when Py'Rai are the dominant Race.
    Steven has not shared that degree of detail, though.
  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    @Dygz I was thinking something along similar lines but not to that detail haha
  • SweatycupSweatycup Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Its ok to be “rigged” or should we use the proper non-assumptions form that ashes when it comes down to architecture will be decided by players? This is meant to happen. It causes friction as others stated. This game requires you to make sacrifices to get to where you want to be and i am particularly talking nodes. It is a social game. If you are a solo RP player who plans to live in a all dunir node your going to have to find that group of players. Personally i never thought about architecture choice, it simply does not matter to me. The building types are the same minus visuals amongst races. By the way there are guilds forming that only allow certain races already. Check recruitment forms if that is your thing. I am impartial to the issue personally.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's more than just architecture, though.
    Also determines the Race of the NPCs in that Node and which quests and tasks and mobs are associated with those NPCs.
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