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Right click "duel"

GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
With how big of a deal dying is in this game due to the penalties that come with it, I think that the game needs to launch with a right click duel option.

People want to fight their friends. People want to practice PvP. In a PvX game, all the more! But without a clean option to duel people with no accidental deaths, there is no good alternative.

My suggestion is to take WoW Classic's approach to it. Simple enough, duel starts, there's a "duel" range where if you leave, you forfeit, and if your character hits 1hp, he stops taking all damage, and both unflag immediately. Then people can heal up and go again if they want to, or go on with their day :)
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Comments

  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Am i weird when i say, that i actually " expect " this Option - as a matter of Course ?

    Why would People be unable to chose, if they want to fight either to the dead - or until one of them is simply unable to continue the fight ? Why would Surrendering in a Duel not be an Option ? Why would avoiding killing not be an Option ?
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  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    As long as the option exists to turn off the feature or auto reply Decline to avoid harassment then any QoL improvement is good.
  • ImoxatorImoxator Member, Alpha Two
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    I suspect they don’t want dueling in the open world because that can circumnavigate a lot of possible PvP scenarios. “Hey, we both want claim to X, right? Let’s settle this in a way that doesn’t involve any corruption risk!”
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I honestly expect to see duels by the start of Alpha 2, is such a core and easy to implement feature to test and practice pvp
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  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Imoxator wrote: »
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    I suspect they don’t want dueling in the open world because that can circumnavigate a lot of possible PvP scenarios. “Hey, we both want claim to X, right? Let’s settle this in a way that doesn’t involve any corruption risk!”

    I did see this, although I went to the source video, and it comes off that Steven simply includes that dueling is possible in freeholds/nodes, but doesn't exclude open world.
  • ImoxatorImoxator Member, Alpha Two
    Right. And it’s confusing because all land mass is included in some “node” too haha. Which, when there’s confusion in a statement, it means we’ll likely get clarification on what that means. You should ask the question in the next stream Q&A section!
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Hopefully duels don't flag us purple. I'd hate to be at 1 health after a duel and have someone one shot me. I noticed the devs said its not part of the flagging system. I hope it doesn't change.
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  • Nova_terraNova_terra Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Hopefully duels don't flag us purple. I'd hate to be at 1 health after a duel and have someone one shot me. I noticed the devs said its not part of the flagging system. I hope it doesn't change.

    I seriously doubt they would make dueling anything more than flag/unflag. It would be easy to game the system if it turned you purple.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i rather have right click exterminate ;3
  • ArnasPanikaArnasPanika Member
    I'd prefer not to have duels in a pvp based game and encourage people to learn/practice pvp while doing pvp, but yeah, if they implement things like arena's, etc. then I guess it changes the concept of a open world pvp game anyway so I guess it's too late to complain :#
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    There is a very easy way to make duels, a no brainer

    As soon as a duel start, you gain a blue HP bar regardless of whatever hit points you had before, when that duel HP bar gets to 0% OR if you get hit by a player or mob or outside heal during the duel, it's cancelled and you immediately drop back to your actual HP bar with the hit points you had previously - or + the damage/heal you just took,

    as simple as that, there's no exploiting, nothing, a very simple system that takes no effort to code, and you dont need to actually mess with player's hit points making players need to heal up with potions after the duel etc, perfectly balanced
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  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    There is a very easy way to make duels, a no brainer

    As soon as a duel start, you gain a blue HP bar regardless of whatever hit points you had before, when that duel HP bar gets to 0% OR if you get hit by a player or mob or outside heal during the duel, it's cancelled and you immediately drop back to your actual HP bar with the hit points you had previously - or + the damage/heal you just took,

    as simple as that, there's no exploiting, nothing, a very simple system that takes no effort to code, and you dont need to actually mess with player's hit points making players need to heal up with potions after the duel etc, perfectly balanced

    Why is that better than ending a duel at 1hp, and having to heal back up to full? I feel like ending at 1hp feels "better". Maybe it's cause that's the way it is in WoW, but that feeling of "yup, I was dead if it was a real fight" is real.
  • PyrololPyrolol Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" so I think this will stop people getting cheap kills, either way dueling has helped with heaps of things other than just PvP It helps with spell/ability rotations, testing talents, testing serviceability, different builds etc
    I believe New World did the same as WoW and can duel anywhere and drop to 1hp
    Usually there are healers watching duels anyways to use there heals
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  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" so I think this will stop people getting cheap kills, either way dueling has helped with heaps of things other than just PvP It helps with spell/ability rotations, testing talents, testing serviceability, different builds etc
    I believe New World did the same as WoW and can duel anywhere and drop to 1hp
    Usually there are healers watching duels anyways to use there heals

    New World and WoW do it opposite, you can't duel inside cities/safe zones, and only in open world.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    GrappLr wrote: »

    Why is that better than ending a duel at 1hp, and having to heal back up to full? I feel like ending at 1hp feels "better". Maybe it's cause that's the way it is in WoW, but that feeling of "yup, I was dead if it was a real fight" is real.

    someone can flag up and kill you with 1 hit after the duel ends
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  • PyrololPyrolol Member, Alpha Two
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" so I think this will stop people getting cheap kills, either way dueling has helped with heaps of things other than just PvP It helps with spell/ability rotations, testing talents, testing serviceability, different builds etc
    I believe New World did the same as WoW and can duel anywhere and drop to 1hp
    Usually there are healers watching duels anyways to use there heals

    New World and WoW do it opposite, you can't duel inside cities/safe zones, and only in open world.

    That’s literally what I wrote?
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  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    GrappLr wrote: »

    Why is that better than ending a duel at 1hp, and having to heal back up to full? I feel like ending at 1hp feels "better". Maybe it's cause that's the way it is in WoW, but that feeling of "yup, I was dead if it was a real fight" is real.

    someone can flag up and kill you with 1 hit after the duel ends

    And that's a risk they have to take. Also, if they do that, they will gain corruption, as you shouldn't be flagged from dueling.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    why not have your hp back to how it was after a duel? -_-
    unless you want to slow down how frequently people duel...
    they could even kill you with a level 1 alt lol
    or if they time it right, hit you with an attack while your duel opponent's attack is in mid air, canceling the duel and then your duel partner gets corruption then he dies to a gangbang, and loses his stuff.
    they could mob drop and you as well...

    l2 had the most suitable duel settings for an owpvp game
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    why not have your hp back to how it was after a duel? -_-
    unless you want to slow down how frequently people duel...
    they could even kill you with a level 1 alt lol
    or if they time it right, hit you with an attack while your duel opponent's attack is in mid air, canceling the duel and then your duel partner gets corruption then he dies to a gangbang, and loses his stuff.
    they could mob drop and you as well...

    l2 had the most suitable duel settings for an owpvp game

    I don't think it's "bad" to have hp back to same as pre duel. I just think it's less fun overall. Makes dueling feel like a "minigame" instead of an extension of the actual game. "magic hp pools for duels" < "we stop fighting when one person goes to 1hp".
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why not have your hp back to how it was after a duel? -_-
    unless you want to slow down how frequently people duel...
    they could even kill you with a level 1 alt lol
    or if they time it right, hit you with an attack while your duel opponent's attack is in mid air, canceling the duel and then your duel partner gets corruption then he dies to a gangbang, and loses his stuff.
    they could mob drop and you as well...

    l2 had the most suitable duel settings for an owpvp game

    I don't think it's "bad" to have hp back to same as pre duel. I just think it's less fun overall. Makes dueling feel like a "minigame" instead of an extension of the actual game. "magic hp pools for duels" < "we stop fighting when one person goes to 1hp".

    what? that doesnt change the duel though. the duel its still the same while the duel is happening.
  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why not have your hp back to how it was after a duel? -_-
    unless you want to slow down how frequently people duel...
    they could even kill you with a level 1 alt lol
    or if they time it right, hit you with an attack while your duel opponent's attack is in mid air, canceling the duel and then your duel partner gets corruption then he dies to a gangbang, and loses his stuff.
    they could mob drop and you as well...

    l2 had the most suitable duel settings for an owpvp game

    I don't think it's "bad" to have hp back to same as pre duel. I just think it's less fun overall. Makes dueling feel like a "minigame" instead of an extension of the actual game. "magic hp pools for duels" < "we stop fighting when one person goes to 1hp".

    what? that doesnt change the duel though. the duel its still the same while the duel is happening.

    Yes, but it changes the context of what a duel is. When you get a magic HP bar that is for the duel only, you're basically initiating a minigame, something "outside" of the game world. An extreme exaggeration would be "when a duel starts, both teleport to a duel arena". It breaks immersion with the world.

    If the duel effects your HP, and you drop to 1hp, then duel ends, it's an extension of the actual game world.

    Make sense?
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  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    GrappLr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    why not have your hp back to how it was after a duel? -_-
    unless you want to slow down how frequently people duel...
    they could even kill you with a level 1 alt lol
    or if they time it right, hit you with an attack while your duel opponent's attack is in mid air, canceling the duel and then your duel partner gets corruption then he dies to a gangbang, and loses his stuff.
    they could mob drop and you as well...

    l2 had the most suitable duel settings for an owpvp game

    I don't think it's "bad" to have hp back to same as pre duel. I just think it's less fun overall. Makes dueling feel like a "minigame" instead of an extension of the actual game. "magic hp pools for duels" < "we stop fighting when one person goes to 1hp".

    what? that doesnt change the duel though. the duel its still the same while the duel is happening.

    Yes, but it changes the context of what a duel is. When you get a magic HP bar that is for the duel only, you're basically initiating a minigame, something "outside" of the game world. An extreme exaggeration would be "when a duel starts, both teleport to a duel arena". It breaks immersion with the world.

    If the duel effects your HP, and you drop to 1hp, then duel ends, it's an extension of the actual game world.

    Make sense?

    i see what you mean. people should be able to kill each other too during a duel, following the same logic.
    i mean, if the other dude is at 5 hp and you hit him with ur most powerful, world-ending, armageddon bringing attack, it doesnt make sense that it only does 4 damage. its immersion breaking.

    my sword cut him but the bleeding stopped when his hp was at 1.

    my poison stopped affecting him because he lost the duel, not because he took the antidote.

    ok

    gameplay > rp
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Duelling doesn't have death penalties associated with the feat. Thus, I don't particularly care if the duel is to the actual death (RP) or to 1 HP.
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  • PyrololPyrolol Member, Alpha Two
    Dueling will only be occurring in freeholds/nodes
    So I doubt people will be dying in these towns
    Doesn’t make sense
    1hp end duel does
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  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    Dueling will only be occurring in freeholds/nodes
    So I doubt people will be dying in these towns
    Doesn’t make sense
    1hp end duel does

    you can kill people in their freeholds...
  • SathragoSathrago Member
    Pyrolol wrote: »
    Dueling will only be occurring in freeholds/nodes
    So I doubt people will be dying in these towns
    Doesn’t make sense
    1hp end duel does

    See the problem here is that a node is a massive swathe of land and we cant really say what they meant when they said node at the time. Otherwise from the current plans you will just not be able to duel on the ocean.
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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hopefully duels will happen outside Taverns. Would be a great place to have a duelling scene.
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?
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  • Enigmatic SageEnigmatic Sage Member
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    why not? :smile: the flagging system doesn't affect it and if it did unless there were limitations to where you could duel then it's a risk you just got to take.

    I'm assuming it wouldn't be available during scenario's like sieges etc
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