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Right click "duel"

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Comments

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I think for terms of immersion it should be possible. We don't want a situation where players can simply initiate a duel and walk around invincible to harm whilst not fighting each other.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Nova_terraNova_terra Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I just don't think this leads to a good outcome. As it stands, you can only duel in freeholds and nodes which you can't really fight in otherwise (unless there is an active siege or something). So there isn't currently a way to run up on someone like that since the duels only take place in spaces where you can't snipe someone. With that said, I think dueling would be something no one does if there is a chance you can just get sniped from 30 meters away in any space. It just wouldn't be worth it or if it is you can just hand out the cheese and wine.
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think for terms of immersion it should be possible. We don't want a situation where players can simply initiate a duel and walk around invincible to harm whilst not fighting each other.

    This can easily be solved by timers or simple rule sets like a small AOE space that if you leave it the duel ends, or if you spend 10 seconds not doing any damage etc. I'm sure we can poke holes in this, but overall at least 90% use case those two simple rules fix most issues.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I just don't think this leads to a good outcome. As it stands, you can only duel in freeholds and nodes which you can't really fight in otherwise (unless there is an active siege or something). So there isn't currently a way to run up on someone like that since the duels only take place in spaces where you can't snipe someone. With that said, I think dueling would be something no one does if there is a chance you can just get sniped from 30 meters away in any space. It just wouldn't be worth it or if it is you can just hand out the cheese and wine.
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think for terms of immersion it should be possible. We don't want a situation where players can simply initiate a duel and walk around invincible to harm whilst not fighting each other.

    This can easily be solved by timers or simple rule sets like a small AOE space that if you leave it the duel ends, or if you spend 10 seconds not doing any damage etc. I'm sure we can poke holes in this, but overall at least 90% use case those two simple rules fix most issues.

    I think you can fight inside Nodes. I also think a duel zone should be big if one exists to be able to kite and use maximum range skills etc. I don't like the idea of a timed duel due to some classes taking longer to kill than others.

    Edit: You can also duel in the open world/hunting grounds. Not just inside Nodes.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • Nova_terraNova_terra Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I just don't think this leads to a good outcome. As it stands, you can only duel in freeholds and nodes which you can't really fight in otherwise (unless there is an active siege or something). So there isn't currently a way to run up on someone like that since the duels only take place in spaces where you can't snipe someone. With that said, I think dueling would be something no one does if there is a chance you can just get sniped from 30 meters away in any space. It just wouldn't be worth it or if it is you can just hand out the cheese and wine.
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think for terms of immersion it should be possible. We don't want a situation where players can simply initiate a duel and walk around invincible to harm whilst not fighting each other.

    This can easily be solved by timers or simple rule sets like a small AOE space that if you leave it the duel ends, or if you spend 10 seconds not doing any damage etc. I'm sure we can poke holes in this, but overall at least 90% use case those two simple rules fix most issues.

    I think you can fight inside Nodes. I also think a duel zone should be big if one exists to be able to kite and use maximum range skills etc. I don't like the idea of a timed duel due to some classes taking longer to kill than others.

    Edit: You can also duel in the open world/hunting grounds. Not just inside Nodes.

    Maybe I am missing something from the wiki, or some insight so I'd love someone to correct me. But I am not sure you are able to kill people IN the node. Like you can't just walk the streets and murder everyone in there. I know you can fight in the nodes ZOI and in the hunting grounds around it.

    As for the piece about time/area limitations. I am all for making it a huge area for kiting (when I say huge I mean like 50ft+) but would solve the "duel and walk away invincible" issue. as for the timing, I agree that some classes will have long ttk which is why I said if you make it something like if you haven't damaged target in 20 seconds the duel ends which would be fine from a ttk duration angle and would also give a stealth class time to LOS/heal/re-engage if needed. Again, there are plenty of other things that can be done but even simple rules would fix many of the gaps in abusability.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Nova_terra wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I just don't think this leads to a good outcome. As it stands, you can only duel in freeholds and nodes which you can't really fight in otherwise (unless there is an active siege or something). So there isn't currently a way to run up on someone like that since the duels only take place in spaces where you can't snipe someone. With that said, I think dueling would be something no one does if there is a chance you can just get sniped from 30 meters away in any space. It just wouldn't be worth it or if it is you can just hand out the cheese and wine.
    Neurath wrote: »
    I think for terms of immersion it should be possible. We don't want a situation where players can simply initiate a duel and walk around invincible to harm whilst not fighting each other.

    This can easily be solved by timers or simple rule sets like a small AOE space that if you leave it the duel ends, or if you spend 10 seconds not doing any damage etc. I'm sure we can poke holes in this, but overall at least 90% use case those two simple rules fix most issues.

    I think you can fight inside Nodes. I also think a duel zone should be big if one exists to be able to kite and use maximum range skills etc. I don't like the idea of a timed duel due to some classes taking longer to kill than others.

    Edit: You can also duel in the open world/hunting grounds. Not just inside Nodes.

    Maybe I am missing something from the wiki, or some insight so I'd love someone to correct me. But I am not sure you are able to kill people IN the node. Like you can't just walk the streets and murder everyone in there. I know you can fight in the nodes ZOI and in the hunting grounds around it.

    As for the piece about time/area limitations. I am all for making it a huge area for kiting (when I say huge I mean like 50ft+) but would solve the "duel and walk away invincible" issue. as for the timing, I agree that some classes will have long ttk which is why I said if you make it something like if you haven't damaged target in 20 seconds the duel ends which would be fine from a ttk duration angle and would also give a stealth class time to LOS/heal/re-engage if needed. Again, there are plenty of other things that can be done but even simple rules would fix many of the gaps in abusability.

    The node has a zoi in the open world. Which is also part of the hunting grounds. otherwise, the whole map would be covered in zoi and no hunting grounds would exist. I believe you can duel there. Also, I do love the idea of a big duel zone like you described. As for the timed period of non combat I'd have to test it to understand whether I like it or not.

    Edit: When I said 'Not just inside nodes, I referred to the ZOI which isn't just inside nodes. Sorry for the confusion.
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  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Should you still be able to PK someone that's engaged in a duel with someone else? Like, if they're fighting each other, can I come along and nuke them both while they're low on health? Or would I have to wait for them to finish the duel before I could attack them?

    Thoughts?

    I dont like the idea of allowing it, but I actually think its going to be allowed. I remember them saying you can even attack players inside towns. So it wouldnt surprise me if you can.
    8vf24h7y7lio.jpg
    Commissioned at https://fiverr.com/ravenjuu
  • Taleof2CitiesTaleof2Cities Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2023
    Sathrago wrote: »
    I dont like the idea of allowing it, but I actually think its going to be allowed. I remember them saying you can even attack players inside towns. So it wouldnt surprise me if you can.
    Pretty sure the answer is "no" to PKs while dueling ... or at least that's the way I interpret the Wiki.

    Because duels self-contained, it's impossible to do damage or flag up as an outside bystander.

    Which, by the way, also means you're doing self-heals if solo dueling. No outside interference from other healers ... if the healers chose not to participate when queuing up the duel.

    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" ...
    There isn't much info on this topic. My opinion? If duels are self-contained you should be able to initiate one almost anywhere on the map and have full use of that area. When one side dies, the duel ends. Everyone returns to full stats ... and the losing party incurs no death penalties and can resurrect where they died. Initiate another duel if you wish.


    @Liniker and @GrappLr have already noted the biggest benefit of duels.

    That's testing out your character build against other players (and group testing your raid group against other guilds).
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Sathrago wrote: »
    I dont like the idea of allowing it, but I actually think its going to be allowed. I remember them saying you can even attack players inside towns. So it wouldnt surprise me if you can.
    Pretty sure the answer is "no" to PKs while dueling ... or at least that's the way I interpret the Wiki.

    Because duels self-contained, it's impossible to do damage or flag up as an outside bystander.

    Which, by the way, also means you're doing self-heals if solo dueling. No outside interference from other healers ... if the healers chose not to participate when queuing up the duel.

    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" ...
    There isn't much info on this topic. My opinion? If duels are self-contained you should be able to initiate one almost anywhere on the map and have full use of that area. When one side dies, the duel ends. Everyone returns to full stats ... and the losing party incurs no death penalties and can resurrect where they died. Initiate another duel if you wish.


    @Liniker and @GrappLr have already noted the biggest benefit of duels.

    That's testing out your character build against other players (and group testing your raid group against other guilds).

    So, we can queue in duels? I had hoped we could do duels between teams of players and not just 1vs1. Also, 1vs2 and 1vs3 etc would be good for training purposes.
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  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Sathrago wrote: »
    I dont like the idea of allowing it, but I actually think its going to be allowed. I remember them saying you can even attack players inside towns. So it wouldnt surprise me if you can.
    Pretty sure the answer is "no" to PKs while dueling ... or at least that's the way I interpret the Wiki.

    Because duels self-contained, it's impossible to do damage or flag up as an outside bystander.

    Which, by the way, also means you're doing self-heals if solo dueling. No outside interference from other healers ... if the healers chose not to participate when queuing up the duel.

    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" ...
    There isn't much info on this topic. My opinion? If duels are self-contained you should be able to initiate one almost anywhere on the map and have full use of that area. When one side dies, the duel ends. Everyone returns to full stats ... and the losing party incurs no death penalties and can resurrect where they died. Initiate another duel if you wish.


    @Liniker and @GrappLr have already noted the biggest benefit of duels.

    That's testing out your character build against other players (and group testing your raid group against other guilds).

    pretty sure the answer is yes ;3

    why would duels give you any protection from other players? thats highly abusable. you will get healed or pked by a 3rd party if you are dueling. its pretty common ;3
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Sathrago wrote: »
    I dont like the idea of allowing it, but I actually think its going to be allowed. I remember them saying you can even attack players inside towns. So it wouldnt surprise me if you can.
    Pretty sure the answer is "no" to PKs while dueling ... or at least that's the way I interpret the Wiki.

    Because duels self-contained, it's impossible to do damage or flag up as an outside bystander.

    Which, by the way, also means you're doing self-heals if solo dueling. No outside interference from other healers ... if the healers chose not to participate when queuing up the duel.

    Pyrolol wrote: »
    From the sounds of it all, dueling sounds like it will happen in "safe areas/non contested" ...
    There isn't much info on this topic. My opinion? If duels are self-contained you should be able to initiate one almost anywhere on the map and have full use of that area. When one side dies, the duel ends. Everyone returns to full stats ... and the losing party incurs no death penalties and can resurrect where they died. Initiate another duel if you wish.


    @Liniker and @GrappLr have already noted the biggest benefit of duels.

    That's testing out your character build against other players (and group testing your raid group against other guilds).

    pretty sure the answer is yes ;3

    why would duels give you any protection from other players? thats highly abusable. you will get healed or pked by a 3rd party if you are dueling. its pretty common ;3

    depends on the setup. if there is a favourite spot where duellists go to duel you will have a hard time interrupting duels unless you want to be killed. duellists protect the duel spots and are often good at pvp.
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  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    yeah but im talking about the game allowing you to attack people who are dueling ;3
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    yeah but im talking about the game allowing you to attack people who are dueling ;3

    Yeah I'm in agreement. We don't want protective bubbles in a PvX game. If someone wants to flag on a duellist (I assume you can flag on a duellist) and check to see if corruption applies or not I don't see why not. Corruption should apply in theory but if the duellist is not part of the flagging system the duellist is not technically green.
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  • GrappLrGrappLr Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    All of this is pretty silly. Corruption already protects duelers. If you PK someone who is low hp on a duel, you get corruption (as dueling doesn't flag either dueler). Punishment is within the corruption system already, so it should be allowed, but punished by corruption accordingly.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    GrappLr wrote: »
    All of this is pretty silly. Corruption already protects duelers. If you PK someone who is low hp on a duel, you get corruption (as dueling doesn't flag either dueler). Punishment is within the corruption system already, so it should be allowed, but punished by corruption accordingly.

    Hey, I just go where the threads take me. Its an exploratory fascination of mine. Where flagging system usually doesn't apply the participants are combatants which means they can be killed without corruption...However, an external 'force' can still kill these entities and gain corruption if they don't fight back. Thus, you could still flag against someone who intervenes and corruption won't apply - you'd effectively flag against the outside force if you force attack. The only way this wouldn't happen is if the duel is self contained and can not be interrupted unlike a guild war which also doesn't use the flagging system.
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