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another pitch for flintlock type firearms as later expansions after launch

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Comments

  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yehl wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Yehl wrote: »
    more like im showing that im not talking about modern ars or shit like that. im talking about things so damn close in appearance to crossbows to draw attention to the fact that if your ok with one, why not the other? like srly the ONLY thing that you would notice if you dont use them is the sound effect BUT that would be obsceured by all the other sound effects constantly going off in a battle and be no different likely to a fireball explosion sound effect meaning you wont even likely notice that so AT BEST all it could do to hurt your LOTR fantasy vibe is maybe you see what looks like a weird armless crossbow outta the corner of your eye in a fight or see said weird crossbow user doing a funky looking animation every so often..... like full stop there is about no way it would be hurting the LOTR vibe unless you are truly that incapable of just letting things be for other people and thats what im trying to draw attention to.
    Why Steven doesn't like Steampunk and black powder, flintlock guns doesn't have to make sense to you.
    Accept that Steven is firmly against adding them - or don't accept it.
    Highly unklikely anything you say is going to change his mind.

    also for the sake of my sanity, at least acknowledge that you guys only say no cause steven does and accept you were wrong that there literally is basically no way guns could hurt your LOTR fantasy vibes if you just choose to not use them because it fucking cant...

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowderhttps://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowderhttps://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowder

    Pretty much what people are saying is that when Steven says, "no" rarely does he change his mind and nor does it need further discussion.

    Arcane Engineering will be in the game, it just wont be class based or weapon based.
  • Yehl wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Yehl wrote: »
    more like im showing that im not talking about modern ars or shit like that. im talking about things so damn close in appearance to crossbows to draw attention to the fact that if your ok with one, why not the other? like srly the ONLY thing that you would notice if you dont use them is the sound effect BUT that would be obsceured by all the other sound effects constantly going off in a battle and be no different likely to a fireball explosion sound effect meaning you wont even likely notice that so AT BEST all it could do to hurt your LOTR fantasy vibe is maybe you see what looks like a weird armless crossbow outta the corner of your eye in a fight or see said weird crossbow user doing a funky looking animation every so often..... like full stop there is about no way it would be hurting the LOTR vibe unless you are truly that incapable of just letting things be for other people and thats what im trying to draw attention to.
    Why Steven doesn't like Steampunk and black powder, flintlock guns doesn't have to make sense to you.
    Accept that Steven is firmly against adding them - or don't accept it.
    Highly unklikely anything you say is going to change his mind.

    also for the sake of my sanity, at least acknowledge that you guys only say no cause steven does and accept you were wrong that there literally is basically no way guns could hurt your LOTR fantasy vibes if you just choose to not use them because it fucking cant...

    I don't remember the books anymore but in the movie during a siege, orcs were running with a torch toward the wall, to trigger an explosion. The first was killed but the 2nd manage to reach the place and destroyed the wall. I don't know why he had to advertise himself instead of running in a more covert way. Probably for the viewers.

    II think the absence of guns makes the game more realistic. Because with guns and explosives I would start questioning how players survive 30-60 sec in combat and why ships don't sink when destroyed.
    Crossbows were sometime ago intended. I think were removed for a similar reason: they are supposed to cause more damage compared to a bow.

    What happens after release remains to be seen. It is so far in the future that nobody will remember this thread.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 2023
    Yehl wrote: »
    at least acknowledge that you guys only say no cause steven does and accept you were wrong that there literally is basically no way guns could hurt your LOTR fantasy vibes if you just choose to not use them because it fucking cant...
    Has nothing to do with right or wrong.
    Has everything to do with Steven's preference and his vision of the setting.
    Verra is not Middle Earth. It's also not WarHammer.
    Verra is Steven's Pathfinder homebrew setting.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yehl wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Yehl wrote: »
    more like im showing that im not talking about modern ars or shit like that. im talking about things so damn close in appearance to crossbows to draw attention to the fact that if your ok with one, why not the other? like srly the ONLY thing that you would notice if you dont use them is the sound effect BUT that would be obsceured by all the other sound effects constantly going off in a battle and be no different likely to a fireball explosion sound effect meaning you wont even likely notice that so AT BEST all it could do to hurt your LOTR fantasy vibe is maybe you see what looks like a weird armless crossbow outta the corner of your eye in a fight or see said weird crossbow user doing a funky looking animation every so often..... like full stop there is about no way it would be hurting the LOTR vibe unless you are truly that incapable of just letting things be for other people and thats what im trying to draw attention to.
    Why Steven doesn't like Steampunk and black powder, flintlock guns doesn't have to make sense to you.
    Accept that Steven is firmly against adding them - or don't accept it.
    Highly unklikely anything you say is going to change his mind.

    also for the sake of my sanity, at least acknowledge that you guys only say no cause steven does and accept you were wrong that there literally is basically no way guns could hurt your LOTR fantasy vibes if you just choose to not use them because it fucking cant...

    Nah man. This isn't about what Steven wants at all, for me at least. I don't want guns in Ashes because I don't think they match the setting. I think they cheapen and detract from it. You really need to learn to accept that people like and prefer different things than you, instead of trying to invent reasons they don't like your suggestions.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    When ever they do add new weapons to the game they should add a secret into the game and not tell anyone about it, could be hidden quests that give hints to unlock a secret room in a dungeon that has blueprint for the new weapon which then unlocks the weapon recipe for everyone but they should tell anyone about it it should be a secret to discover :P
  • El Stevo has changed his mind on a couple of things, but I don't think this is going to be one of them.

    Probably the only explosions you'll be seeing are something cannon like from a ship, a fireball, and maybe a summoned critter expiring by exploding, causing some final damage before death. Now that would be cool...

    As for reasons, I just think gunpowder and guns in general are associated with a weapon development timeline beyond the medieval, and though its mostly a fantasy setting, ballistae and trebuchets are about as 'modern' as they want to go. Just my 2 cents.
    The girl watched the last of the creatures die and murmured a soft 'Thank you' to her rescuer.

    The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.

    'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
  • @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowder

    Weaponry such as Potion launchers, Siege weapons and weapons used in Naval combat are based on the arcane arts.[2][3][5]

    The elements (evocation magic).[3][5]
    The use of radiance and darkness.[5]

    It's still similar just different. Magic used to launch something from a barrel.
  • Raven016Raven016 Member
    edited November 2023
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.
    The device can look like a coil or a vertical rod, to be sure nobody thinks to cannons.
  • Raven016 wrote: »
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.

    They're called Mage/Magus Cannons. Essentially what you described as an output amplifier of said magic type or spell. The potion launcher is essentially that where the potions are the spell type cast on impact.

    The discussion thread just reminds me of the ballista vs crossbow thing.
  • Raven016 wrote: »
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.

    They're called Mage/Magus Cannons. Essentially what you described as an output amplifier of said magic type or spell. The potion launcher is essentially that where the potions are the spell type cast on impact.

    The discussion thread just reminds me of the ballista vs crossbow thing.

    I just added that
    The device can look like a coil or a vertical rod, to be sure nobody thinks to cannons. :smile:
  • edited November 2023
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.

    They're called Mage/Magus Cannons. Essentially what you described as an output amplifier of said magic type or spell. The potion launcher is essentially that where the potions are the spell type cast on impact.

    The discussion thread just reminds me of the ballista vs crossbow thing.

    I just added that
    The device can look like a coil or a vertical rod, to be sure nobody thinks to cannons. :smile:

    no worries, I know what you mean. Aesthetics aside it still functions the same as a spell launcher regardless if from the weapon itself or ammo on impact :smile:
  • Raven016 wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.

    They're called Mage/Magus Cannons. Essentially what you described as an output amplifier of said magic type or spell. The potion launcher is essentially that where the potions are the spell type cast on impact.

    The discussion thread just reminds me of the ballista vs crossbow thing.

    I just added that
    The device can look like a coil or a vertical rod, to be sure nobody thinks to cannons. :smile:

    no worries, I know what you mean. Aesthetics aside it still functions the same as a spell launcher regardless if from the weapon itself or ammo on impact :smile:

    The functioning can be changed too.
    You can have two mages, one casting the spells which travel toward the enemy line and the other explodes them.
    The enemies could also try to either explode them fast or divert them.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    More likely to get hand held Potion Launchers, like we had in APOC, rather than black powder and flintlock.

  • edited November 2023
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    Raven016 wrote: »
    @AnimusRex assuming naval ships will have cannons that launch potions by magic as the wiki states... It's not like they couldn't invent a smaller version technically.
    We can be creative.
    Let's say the fire balls are cast by mages but they use some device which amplifies their output. That means the mage would charge first the device with energy and then would cast the fireball through it.

    They're called Mage/Magus Cannons. Essentially what you described as an output amplifier of said magic type or spell. The potion launcher is essentially that where the potions are the spell type cast on impact.

    The discussion thread just reminds me of the ballista vs crossbow thing.

    I just added that
    The device can look like a coil or a vertical rod, to be sure nobody thinks to cannons. :smile:

    no worries, I know what you mean. Aesthetics aside it still functions the same as a spell launcher regardless if from the weapon itself or ammo on impact :smile:

    The functioning can be changed too.
    You can have two mages, one casting the spells which travel toward the enemy line and the other explodes them.
    The enemies could also try to either explode them fast or divert them.

    It's definitely an idea :smile: Could be a bit too "complex" for the average player lol

    I imagine they'll just explode on impact unless special ammo types for bounces unless they want to go down the whole trajectory path and bouncing off surfaces based on angles.
  • https://youtu.be/zOm07Kqr0R0?t=505

    Apoc hand held potion launcher
  • RuerikRuerik Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    No thank you, so many of us bought into the fantasy setting, not pre industrial revolution setting.
    It has already been said anyway no gunpowder things.

    There is a wiki for these kind of things to check before bashing everyone on the forum that doesn't agree with you

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowder
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