I think that this is the best Verra has looked so far(although I waited for the 4k Youtube video as Twitch bitrate doesn't do the aesthetics any favours) The golden shades of autumn brought the foilage to life in a way I've felt has been missing from previous "all green scenes". Colour is good!
The falling leaves, the occasional bird, the shooting stars (the night levels are ideal IMO) the sky box and the volumetric clouds were all super. (I would like to see some more "non-hostile" fauna, grazing cows, deer, stag, foxes, wild horses, and fantastical beasts, etc) The fireflies look fantastic (although perhaps need to be toned down just a tad) The corruption looks awesome and the ominous Harbinger lurking in the distance was great.
The Gathering is looking sweet. The chaos physics on the mining gatherables is *chefs kiss*. (A small suggestion would be to add a little spark or dust when/where the pickaxe makes contact with the stone to drive home that feeling of impact) Certain gatherables being available during different times or seasons is great.
I'll reserve commenting too much on the UI as it is still very much a WIP. A couple of thoughts though. I would like to see a definitive border around the mini-map. Consider playing around with the opacity levels to break up the large blocks of black space seen in menus (perhaps 80% opacity for backgrounds) Give the icons more 3D (or layered) qualities. Use coloured text to highlight important stats, numbers or pertinent information.
I'm not yet sold on the Tetris-style bag layouts. There is a part of me that thinks it is needless complication when standard-sized icons, weight, stacking and bag types allowing you to carry more of a certain type of resource is a simple, but more effective route to take.
Each of the different stations (Agricultural Supply, Stone Works, Wood Shop) all looked decent, although I would suggest they need a bit more flair. The anvil crafting "stations" were a bit paltry and whilst I liked the animations on the NPCs processing the wood and stone, the characters and their stations felt a bit underdeveloped and bland. More character, more atmosphere... these should be memorable locations to visit. (and will be used a lot!) go to town on them! I've mentioned before but NPCs (of all types) should feel like living breathing characters that you are interacting and engaging with. Not just static posts allowing you to open a UI from.
Having different quality of items as a result of using different quality of ingredients is fantastic. Using materials as fuel as a sink is also a good idea.
Overall I was very happy with the update. The world, gathering, processing and crafting are all looking good. The systems seem solid and I look forward to testing them out. The jury is still out on the Tetris-style bags and I would like to see more attention given to NPCs (and their interactions), more style and atmosphere given to stations and as always... even more life pumped into the world.
Great job Intrepid! Keep on going, with a present this good the future is looking bright!
I just want to provide a bit of feedback in regards to the changes of night time, i like the increase in darkness levels however i do think the nodes need a bit of light sources scattered around the place i feel nodes lack lights atm (maybe it just cause it a village) and there be more later but i think we could still do with a couple more to bring in the details of building a little more during nights (the towers around the town also needs some torches on) there like omonius black siluettes at night
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VarkunMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
For me personally this was the best live stream in the past nearly 7 years just loved it. I know there is so much more to be revealed but to see these systems implemented and working is fantastic. Crafting and gathering is what I love to do in MMOs and while it is great to see them on stream true understanding will only come when I am hands on in A2, with what feels good and what doesn't.
Fantastic live stream so much to look forward to with AOC in 2024.
Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
Some things I'd like to point out, I am not happy with being able to acquire T1 of all 22 professions, have five T2 professions, four T3, three T4 and especially be able to have two T5 professions all from different artisan branches, this is really really bad IMO,
people will gather every single T1 tree and rock messing up with the economy making T1 stuff worthless and mess up with the environment manager system since everyone can collect stuff and damage other regions,
this also takes away from the social aspect and makes a singular player able to have their own artisan loop now without needing others, wish you kept the initial plan and tested first with being locked to 1 branch,
A concern I had watching this stream is that it seems like Intrepid is deviating from the original plan of mastering professions being a "monumental" achievement that you would be recognized in your region if you reached the highest tiers of crafting, if this was the case, there shouldn't ever be more than a handful of T5 crafters in a region at least for the first few months,
but from what It looks like now, guilds will boost multiple crafters to T5 in the first month, like in every other mmo, since it looks like everyone will be able to get to T4 and T5 crafting just by putting in some time, and since T5 crafting is available in nodes, you don't even need guild structure and having any social aspect,
my last hope is that for T5 items you actually require mats that only drop from the highest end-game content available like legendary raids or legendary world bosses, something that does require guild effort to achieve, because if its not like that, this system will be steamrolled through very quickly,
also, just adding in my feedback from a different post about the change to make night time darker,
I'm not particularly happy with this change, I will have people doing this in A2 and sending in feedback to prove the point, but basically, by making the scenes darker and more "spooky" Intrepid introduced a mandatory "meta" for a open-world PvP game to play with high gama or use monitor filters/settings at night,
There are spots where you can not be seen by other players because its too dark now, this gives you a huge disadvantage, and just like in ARK and other similar games with open-world PvP, competitive players will have to play with shitty settings that makes your game washed out, to be able to see people in the dark now,
as for positive feedback, game is looking amazing, hope performance is always the number 1, love the bag system with spacial inventory system its looking great and gives AoC's artisan system a unique aspect, very in dept system that I think its brilliant,
I really enjoyed seeing how processing works with fuel, gathering tools with durability, the corrupted zone looked absolutely amazing, overall very solid stream I enjoyed most of it
looking forward for the Ranger showcase next month, but please if possible ask Steven to showcase both action camera and tab camera mode and showcase combat in both modes
Be part of a community of fantastic people with a professional objective. Defeat the forces of corruption by gathering, crafting, trading with friends, and contributing to your node of choice.
My concern is about the shirt, pants, tool belt, and bags. Very glad to hear there are assets coming for these. Perhaps an asset for player bags could be created as well. Especially a backpack, because it is a visual queue. It lets people around you know you may be carrying multiple items, or have the ability to carry multiple items.
The night opal and moon bell were certainly dope. The more assets created regarding resources going from point A(harvest) to point B(processing) the more belief players will have in Vera. May be your mount can move logs from the harvest site to the processor.
Fragments of various rarities to effect the stats of the item, I like it. One thing I will suggest about crafting. The possibility to lose your materials because of a failed attempt. It feels so good to finally craft the item after a couple of failed attempts. Your skill could have been higher before you made the attempt, there needs to be some type of risk and reward system when it comes to crafting. The higher your skill, the higher chance you have of crafting the item and not lose any materials. It is a surge of dopamine that is difficult to explain, like gambling I suppose. When you finally get the item you have been longing for all this time, IT FEELS SO GOOD because you can then show it off to your friends, remember scarcity.
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truenoirMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
I'm really glad that we went with the system in which plants during the day and night are a feature aside from the season change because it really brings an overall unique dynamic to harvesting rather then the static each area always has the same flowers and herbs growing.
I think what we saw so far in terms of the other processing stations is really cool as well. And I like that the lumberjack or other types of equipment has its own slot in a characters wearing inventory cause most games normally make you replace your wearables to have a herbalism equipment which i find annoying and usually never end up using them.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I see a lot of people upset about the durability system but honestly I feel like if we are going to make resources valuable consistently having the fuel cost, durability of items will help keep those systems functioning. I do however have a compromise which could help give a slight compromise to people worried about durability and the potential to breaking an item. I used to play a game that had a class that was able to repair a broken weapon by sacrificing some of the durability stats giving longer life to the item. In this game gear and pickaxes could be broken as well as any wearables but that class with the proper items found in the world could take a 0/100 durability item and turn it back into a 75/75 item by using the cost of rare items in game and having the class leveled high enough and sacrificing the items overall durability. Cause the game had items which could be crafted more powerful by chance like lucky upgrade. It's just a thought to give items reusability after broken. But honestly I feel durability is really going to keep the overall economy healthy and not make items become useless.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
The only thing I'm wondering about when it comes to gathering and resources is whether pvp can also happen as well as killing people for those resources like they have a possibility to drop. In the event that we get inundated with bots which eventually could happen since all games do eventually especially with now AI becoming a very easy thing to implement if we have the ability to kill bots we find and loot the resources even if it's just a portion of what they drop I feel like that can also help the dynamic of economy and balance the overall resource hunting as well.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
The night dynamic is brilliant I made a post before cause I was hoping that we would see those and gave some examples of flowers that grow at night. Not only is it good just for rarity and change the overall dynamic of the game but it helps the aesthetics of how the game looks at night. Hoping that we see more use of that and more examples as time goes on and we get introduced to more of the plants and flowers.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I think the selectable varies being different quality affecting the outcome is an interesting thought but I do want to see the dynamic of how well you do during the crafting game interaction effect the stats of the items result as well.
Like for example:
A green sword which was shown had the following stats:
Green 15 Physical Damage 10 Magic Penetration
Blue 10 Physical Damage 13 Magical Penetration 12 magical damage
Yellow 12 Physical Damage 18 Magical Penetration 16 magical damage
Getting a lucky craft of a green version could raise the base physical and magical penetration based on how good of a success you had like a range of 15 to 20 max for physical damage and a pen level 10 to 15 the next level of blue could be a 10 to 15 with magic pen and magic damage being increased as well. Or having the potential to add extra stats.
The reason being is it would be nice to have that option to keep crafting an item to get the best rolls on it especially when we reach a point in the end game where we want to best of the best and not just simply going to get the crafting material to get the highest tier and then that's it. This is what gives games replay ability like for example ARPG's like Path of Exile even if you find a unique item the stat's on that item might be total trash or the crafting you put into making your god tier bow might require a multi step process in order to get the best of the best.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
The look and feel of the system is great. It's represented in a way that make you feel like you're doing something instead of just navigating a UI. I really like that you are putting multiple layers over the economy to allow people to specialize.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I'm excited about the exploration and survey aspect of gathering. I definitely want to see the time taken to explore rewarded in all parts of the game, not just gathering. I'm concerned about the actual crafting, when you finally made the sword, you just hit a button. It didn't feel like you did anything. I'd like to see some agency on the player's end. For example experimentation to change the outcome or affect the quality. I think it needs to feel like something you did, not just a button push after getting materials from others.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Looks great. Three levels of production will create a healthy economy as various goods compete for the same basic resources and processors make decisions about how to spend their time.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
Perfect. It, again, rewards exploration and knowledge. You need to actively search out items and resources. There is satisfaction in gaining a level of expertise around areas of the map and categories of resources.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
Not good. You just hit a button. I'd would want to see some experimentation and customization. You said during q&a that would come later.
The gathering and processing are the best I've seen in any MMO. I'd like to see the survey system shown and described a bit more, the idea sounds great (and similar to SWG) but it would be good to have some details.
Crafting depends on how the manual crafting works so wait and see there. I would say craft by craft unless you are building a large, generic batch of items.
I also worry about how actual items are leaving the economy, do we have durability on crafted items like weapons and armor?
When leveling your recipe, you said an item has a potential to have different types of outcomes (I am assuming negative ones too), so why not leave that to a player instead of RNG?
There was this indie game that had weapon smithing where you had silhouette of a weapon you are making and behind it, a giant metal bar that you had to shape into a, lets say, sword.
You had this entire array of hammers that helped you get desired shape, with different intensity of hits. If you were successful you would get positive effect and if you went over the silhouette and damaged the weapon you would negative ones or in some extreme cases, a broken blade (useless).
I don't know-Maybe this is to complicated or people would get tired of that mechanic, but just an idea.
That's how you would level your weapon smithing-On trial and error.
If you messed up, it would be on you and not on RNG.
Night tuning was a good decision and I would really love to see how dark can it get indoor without any light source. Making things in a distance even more darker would be even better.Ofc, assuming its not something elevated like that tower in a video.
Snipe skill is visually is amazing. Reminds me of Dragons Dogma spell effects, a game you should look up to when it comes to spell effects-At least when it comes to color saturation of your spells.
That arrow barrage skill sound effect is just perfect. Again, compliments to your sound designer.
[*] How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
I like that best crafting will be in nodes and not in freeholds and freeholds get only the best processing as bonus.
Question: I am curious if transporting processed materials to the node will be protected by corruption or not.
I am happy that we finally got the info how mules will work. I assume players will also load output from processing stage in freeholds into the crates of a mule or caravan. However killing the mules before used to give corruption. Seems like mules are silently merged into caravans.
I don't like that NPCs stand if they have no job. If they finished the job for the player they should switch to a different work behavior, to keep the feeling that the city is alive.
"Fuel" should be replaced with "cost" where possible, as the NPC is doing the job.
However I would like an option to do the job myself too, with better outcomes but the way to not be repetitive and boring like the NPC job. This queue job feels like you was not able to come up with a smart way of crafting these last 7 years. I am disappointed. Basically it shows that the game is not made by people who were crafters as primary role, and fighter as secondary role.
I like the darker night from immersion point of view. But you have to decide what should happen from PvP point of view. If the darkness is meant to help players and NPCs hide, then visibility should not depend on dark colors only but on something else too, like fog, diffuse character contour, no name tags... If using higher gamma brings an advantage, the players who want the immersion will have no choice but change the gamma too. Changing gamma should have no benefit. I can tell from personal experience that I played without changing the gamma and then I finally switched to high gamma in caves or during night, I got more satisfaction that this way I can help my guild during fights than having the immersion. But it took a long time for me to adopt the gamma changing habit. Now I will have no regret adjusting the gamma in AoC as soon as I need, if there are no other visibility limiting features.
I like the tetris inventory system
I like durability loss on artisan tools, like the sickle
UI bug reporting: please add a way to report bugs from withing the game client, with option to mark the reports as feedback only, to be able to filter the bugs out from just opinions. Bugs could have more categories. Maybe take screenshot too - in this case the screenshot should allow also UI screenshot, so a hotkey is needed to trigger the report without closing the menus, to allow proper screenshot capture.
UI: I don't like that the UI shows only after placing the higher tier resources, that the item being produced becomes better. I would prefer to be able to select what tier I want for the final item and to know what to use, and to not unintentionally upgrade the final item by using higher tier materials.
UI: be sure to add ways to know what purpose a resource collected in the world has, unless is intended to be part of a secret recipe.
UI: Was not clear why Steven had to use the zinc one first instead of the wood, what would happen if the order is wrong? https://youtu.be/W6dhCycYAJQ?t=3583
Concept: I don't like that the recipe to make the higher tier items have the same material input. I would prefer each tier to require one additional input type compared to the previous tier.
The crafting feels too primitive.
Concept: I don't like the experience concept where you have to craft multiple times to level up experience. I went through this kind of crafting in other games (not unique as you claimed in the stream) and is not fun. It is just grind because players buy in advance the required materials and do all those in one stage. Today I feel that this crafting concept can make me want to avoid being a crafter in AoC even though that I like crafting in MMOs. That can push me to play another MMO if I find a better crafting system. Actually as I posted in past feedbacks that I bought access to Alpha 2 expecting that AoC will not be my main MMO. You do not seem to become a top level mmo yet.
Concept: I would prefer recipes to have two ways to use recipes:
- one where you give it to the NPC and does it automatically as you showed in stream
- a more intricate crafting done manually, with multiple intermediate stages at the processing stage and with higher chance of failure but also with possibility to get better results.
It would make AoC unique in this regard and let players chose their preferred way.
The intermediate outputs in this proposed intricate manual processing should be character bound and stored in intermediate storage in the freehold which the crafter has to manage and relocate if needed but subject to become corrupted glint via PvP. Ideally the intricacy of manual crafting could have random (optional) steps specific to each player which could be discovered through experimentation. Then players will want to keep them secret. Those could also slightly change over time, from season to season, from year to year. Wood collected during winter could be boiled for a few minutes in salty water, or resin could be added in different amounts to oils etc. Characters who would attempt crafting after a longer break would have to discover again their specific knowledge how to craft efficiently.
I like the artisanship leveling system where players can do everything only at novice level and then is limited to only 5, 4, 3, 2 things. I understand that highest level crafting will be accessible only to citizens and that nodes will specialize and that freeholds will specialize too. So a player will be able to craft at max level only what his node allows and the freehold will also be unable to offer all grand-master processing stations. Be sure freeholds cannot swap processing stations easily.
The two moons should sometime overlap, to eclipse each-other. Solar eclipses could happen too. Maybe the darker nights should happen when the moons are not visible on the sky (new moons).
Regarding the answer to a question: Animals reaction to player activity can be important for PvP, to reveal players who are not careful or if a fight started somewhere. Depends also how much weight will be on PvP in this game, if we expect to have to watch for every hint that another player is around or not. If corruption will protect enough, such animal behavior is just for immersion.
Please make the crafting aspect of the game for crafters in the 1st place and not for the fighters. Let the fighters be great gatherers but leave the crafting to players who enjoy being one without having to compete with bots and players who used multi-boxing. Crafters will fight too but will chose support roles because the main fighting roles need more training.
Make resources drop from NPCs. Those NPCs could be poachers or bandits or creatures. Just be sure people have to fight to get the resources. Cutting trees should attract treants or some enemies. Don't let players relax while gathering.
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Alpha Two Artisanship Preview shown during the November Development Update
Don't forget to add children NPCs too. People come to live, not not only to fight, right?
before I start playing Alpha 2, I will stop interacting on the forum. I really need to be able to give feedback through the game interface.
Backpacks
- stacking bonus is a good idea based on bag type
- generally like the direction
Certification Quests
- good idea for levelling artisan skills
- option to skip on alts?
Crafting Gear Bonuses
- the simplicity of the bonuses is ideal.
- don't want to see overly intricate bonus systems
Biome Season
- autumn looks really good
- would like to see more multicoloured leaf transitions / multi-toned variations
- good to see different tree species transition differently
- would like to see more leaf in the seasonal overlay of the UI
- perhaps even seeing leaf's more dense or aggressive depending on weather
UI
- noticed a delay between the wolf's HP bar and the UI HP bar (top middle)
- noticed that the UI bar doesn't represent the damage dissolve visual either
Corruption zone
- looks good
- would like to see more chaotic visuals as it escalates such as lightning, (arc, heat, ring)
- looks good at night time as well
- would like to see the corruption embers be more dynamic on the tree. The glow feels static. A pulse or flare up would be better to see.
Night time
- sky box looks better and more profound
- darkness is in a better direction
- ambiance potential with design is much greater
- fire flies look good
- glow on specialised resources looks better
- would like to see clouds cast a shadows or affect the darkness slightly and temporarily as they pass over the moon
Processing
- looks good
- curious if there will be specific fuel types for higher end recipes
- can a single player occupy multiple stations at node?
Future Night Time and Biome/Weather
- going off the moon comment steven made..
- can we expect to see special moon effects based on location, time of day and weather? halos, sun dogs, etc
- northern lights?
- light pillars?
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE bring the PLAYER's skill back in crafting!
Please consider some sort of minigame for crafting. How well you know this minigame and how well you overcome complications during the minigame determines the grade of what you are crafting. You might have a look at how crafting was done in the old mmo "Vanguard: Saga of Heroes" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5snx6pcHg
If the stats and quality of the crafted items only depends on the rarity of the ingredients, then everything you can achieve in this game depends on how well you (or someone you pay) are at fighting:
Fight a dragon -> Gather "Dragons Breath" -> Craft flaming sword
Survive a night at a corrupted grave yard -> Gather "Wiggling Bones" -> Craft Living Armor
Defeat Giant Tortoise -> Gather it's shield -> Craft Shield of Giantness
This stream was one of the best ones for awhile (recent streams lacked a bit of what I consider critical information)
SECTION: **Artisan System**
Recipes:
* I like that learning recipes is done with items and not just auto-unlocking. I hope that different regions make different recipes available based on their local resources allowing for more dynamic world interaction in different places.
Tools:
- I like that tools are crafted by the professions and not relying on a blacksmith to create the tools for you.
- I like that tools for each profession are equipped in the Artisan tab and you don't have to remember to switch each time you want to do a different task or gatherable.
Equipment:
* I like that crafting gear co-exists with adventuring gear. This is very important in a PvX game.
* Hopefully the bags will have a keyword on them on mouse over to indicate they are a bag. Right now it's very unclear that they are bags. The current UI icons don't do enough to convey that if you don't already know.
* I like the need to pick the right bags for my journey. Deciding between a 'general' bag, an 'herb' bag and a 'mining' bag will be important for the professions I'm planning on playing and the people I'm planning on playing with.
Profession Certification
- I like the certification system and the different tiers.
- I'm mildly disappointed that the restriction to 'category' (Crafting/Profession/Gathering) no longer exists for Master+. I liked that these were separate because it prevented the gatherers from processing their own thing and flooding the market. Having the middle-man creates a stop-gap from 'infinite' supply and demand to keep prices meaningful.
That said, the fact that there is a time limit on the smelting queues might serve the same purpose.
* I like that we can be a novice of every profession to try them out and do some basics. This allows players to decide what they want as they play rather than pick right at the start. It also allows players to be self-sufficient early while still allowing economic dependency later as characters progress.
Gathering
* I like the balance that the survey system allows for resources to exist without necessarily be showing on the world. This might allow for systems were people aren't necessarily competing for the same nodes on a timer (but obviously the resource conservation degradation system might make surveying give less results)
Processing
For context I intend to be a 'Processing Main'.
* I like the fuel system shown. It looks like you can add different fuels (like herbs). I wonder if different fuels will allow for different outcomes and alloys like the different crafting recipes (ie: iron ore smelted over corrupted wood might yield corrupted iron ingots - or cooking bacon over apple wood will give apple wood smoked bacon.)
* Queue system is a nice touch. There might be a layer where the more people using the same station in a node it could give a debuff which would be an equivalent simulation of too many people trying to use a station requiring it to be upgraded.
* Job size is nice, being able to batch them if your station is upgraded to be able to process more in the same slot (even if it takes the same amount of time as doing them individually).
* Would be nice if we can re-arrange jobs without cancelling them if something comes up that winds up being more urgent.
* I hope that there will be special recipe variations for ingots and other processing things. If you have Electrum that takes silver and gold ores but have an optional 'faery dust' component to make Fey Electrum that would give some kind of a bonus to whatever is crafted with it. This might be similar to whatever enchantment that exists that also requires faery dust to allow multiple paths to a similar result.
SECTION: **Night**
- The darkness is closer to what I wanted, might still be a bit brighter than I'd prefer. It is now dark enough that adventuring at night is a bit of a challenge (which is good!) I now hope we'll have torches or spells on Mages, Clerics, /Mages and /Clerics to help see in the dark.
- I like that at one point you said 'Night is at least an hour away'. This indicates that the day/night cycle isn't an hour each like in many games. Also I hope that winter has longer nights and summer has shorter nights - because that's how seasons work.
- In addition to the above I like that resources can exist based on day/night as well, which will create some cycles for items to increase scarcity because you might not be able to get everything you want in the times you log on.
- it doesn't look like shadows cast on the player model (but they do on other player models). I don't know if that was intentional so you could always see your character or not.
SECTION: **Corrupted Zones**
- These look great and are a lot more thematic than recent previous games.
- Mild worry that when there are special resources and predicates that trigger from these. This is going to create some conflict between those that want to clear these areas vs people that might want to let them spread for those events to trigger.
SECTION: **Other Notes**
* 'Wanting to have a viable option for every build that players want to try' This makes me SUPER happy. As someone who really wants to see bow using Weaponmater (fighter/fighter) bow users and melee Striders (Ranger/Fighter) I'm glad to hear this kind of statement.
* In the Q&A you clarified that mules use the cargo system, not the regular inventory system. This alleviates some of my concern I had from last stream since it's previously been said you can be green on a mule. It's limited to smallest cargo sizes, but it's at least something to do these things without the full risk of the caravan system.
* Steven had an echo when he got excited/loud. I think there was someone in the background watching the video (Margaret?) at the same time he was recording it and it was creating a mild feedback. They should wear headphones.
Regarding Processing; I get that it would be nice to have player freedom to not be locked into an extended duration processing animation oneself, but it seems odd to raise your Processing level by not actually doing the work yourself as the character, and instead having an NPC do so. I see the pro's and con's but it feels a little odd. I lean towards liking New World's style.
This is a great point. Given that the players have lived in Sanctus our whole lives and we developed technology without magic, it would make sense for these to be somewhat automated (windmills/gravity powered etc) rather than having an NPC doing things (as much as I love the NPC animations. The debarker was quite notable)
My issue is the bags, you saw Steven fail with them live on stream, showing 1 of the issues that will still be an issue after balance pass. You need to remember like Stevens fails Processors need to use those bags to take materials TO & FROM processing stations.
Real talk non negotiable Fuel needs it own bag slot if you are dead set on using the meme fuel & meme showcased bags going forward even though knowing they are pointless. As I said not Negotiable, this is a NEED to combat the pointlessness forced onto players.
I was actually a little surprised by this since they are in-node. Why did the processing results not go to Node Storage? We shouldn't have to need to carry materials to/from storage if node storage exists.
Fueling old men to debark your trees with dandelions makes no sense. Use food or money as fuel when the job is labor and coal or wood for fires when it makes sense.
Agree
Certification gating your ability to mine a rock also makes no sense, use terms like knowledge or experience. No government in the node is stopping you from gathering, it is your lack of ability. Certifications come from regulating bodies or standardized testing. No one in the wild is going to tell you to put down that axe from your node unless you have certification police.
Certifications also imply continuing education and upkeep in many trades; consider this is if that is truly the system you are aiming for
It is. One of the systems they've indicated for the Science nodes is that you have to go to the high level ones to master your skills.
Some things I'd like to point out, I am not happy with being able to acquire T1 of all 22 professions, have five T2 professions, four T3, three T4 and especially be able to have two T5 professions all from different artisan branches, this is really really bad IMO,
people will gather every single T1 tree and rock messing up with the economy making T1 stuff worthless and mess up with the environment manager system since everyone can collect stuff and damage other regions,
this also takes away from the social aspect and makes a singular player able to have their own artisan loop now without needing others, wish you kept the initial plan and tested first with being locked to 1 branch,
A concern I had watching this stream is that it seems like Intrepid is deviating from the original plan of mastering professions being a "monumental" achievement that you would be recognized in your region if you reached the highest tiers of crafting, if this was the case, there shouldn't ever be more than a handful of T5 crafters in a region at least for the first few months,
I share the first concern. However the second isn't a concern assuming they keep to the need for Science nodes to level up your professions (this was stated in the past and is on the wiki). In that situation, there won't be any Masters/Grandmasters until a sufficient level Science node exists (which will probably take longer than a month)
I dunno, I'm sorry. I just couldn't get past that fricking huge sword that Slurpy was using. So bad. It's just waaaay too big. Makes the group look like a bunch of clowns running around. Every time it came on-screen, it emphasised just how badly it was out of place.
The Artisanship system is what I’ve been looking forward to the most. I can see myself focusing on Gathering and running around the world finding rare materials and ingredients, leveling up, and eventually becoming a master in one of the gathering professions. Exploring the beautiful world of Verra as shown in this and previous livestreams (I absolutely loved the corrupted area) during day, night, or any of the seasons will give it a unique atmosphere every time you are in an area. I love the dynamics shows so far for gathering.
Unfortunately, I feel like the Processing and Crafting part feels kind of underwhelming in comparison. It could be that I don’t understand it well enough, or can’t see the possibilities yet, but right now I don’t see the appeal in putting my hard-earned skill points into those professions. Processing seems like an automated system, as long as I have the materials and find a processing station, I just need to wait and it’s done. If I understand correctly, the high-end processing stations are found at Freeholds, meaning that I need to get myself a Freehold, which won’t be cheap, or get permission to use someone else’s Freehold stations. Once there, I once again, process the materials by giving them and waiting. It seems like there is little to do as someone who focuses on processing. Why would I try to master those professions?
The Crafting part has the same problem. I first need to find the recipes before I can start making something. Once I got the recipe, I need processed materials. If I have bought a recipe and the necessary materials I go to the crafting station and craft it by just waiting until it’s done. Crafting seems more about finding recipes (through combat?) and buying materials, than the crafting process itself. I do, however, love the idea of using extra materials to upgrade whatever you are making and the possibility of receiving recipe experience.
What I want to say is, I miss the gameplay part in Processing and Crafting professions that make me want to become a master in those, that makes me want to focus solely on those. If it’s talking about the whole process, from gathering resources to making a final product, there is enough gameplay. But as far as I understand, I can’t be a master in all three, Gathering, Processing, and Crafting. If I focus on Crafting, I can’t process the best materials I need for the best recipes, and I can’t gather the materials I need for that processing since those are too high-end. All I can do is buy materials, choose the unique combination, click the craft button, and wait. Processing and Crafting professions seem to have more to do with buying and selling than with the profession itself, with the act of processing or crafting itself.
Going into combat and defeating enemies is something I could do hour after hour. Running around and finding new materials is something I could do hour after hour. However, processing wood seems like something you do while you're doing something else, and crafting a staff or a chair out of the wood seems like something you either do by waiting if it has a long duration or by repeatedly clicking the same button.
I would like to show my support for the current processing model, where it's an NPC doing the work and the players just adding things to the queue.
1. Economy
Steven said during the livestream that they are actively limiting the amount of materials in the artisan chain via the processing system. We know from the wiki that the higher tier stuff can take days to process, with upgraded processing stations cuttting that time in half at max station upgrade level.
By forcing players to stay stuck at processing stations, they have to *severely* reduce the amount of time it takes to process things, which essentially causes them to have to redo the entire planned game economy balance and the other artisanship systems as well. That's gonna take a lot of time, caused by such a seemingly small change.
2. Boredom, alts and afk gameplay
Forcing players to stay stuck in animation while processing incentivizes AFK gameplay, alts on second accounts made for just that purpose, and it's just really boring gameplay. I don't want to see BDO lifeskilling recreated here.
3. Collision, visuals and PvP
Especially in nodes, having 100 players stand on top of each other - like, inside each other - working the same crusher is just bad visually. Also it would mess up the collision detection system that is still present at all times, including in nodes, and for PvP purposes it's horrible too. People can try to hide in the stack, forcing attackers to have to cycle through the stack of people one by one to target the specific player, or if they just use AOE, get corruption worth a lifetime.
Then there is the question of being caught in PvP while processing. A lot of that can be mitigated by allowing players to instantly leave and such, but I would still very much prefer them not forcing players into these locked positions for longer than is absolutely necessary.
4. Freehold processing
I considered if a more hands-on approach could be used in freeholds, since there are fewer players interacting with the stations, but all the other negatives would still apply. I would much rather the same system is applied to processing in freeholds, than differentiating between the two.
5. Conclusion
I would much rather see Intrepid allowing players to run back and forth between stations, queueing up different process jobs and being active than the soporific standing still in one spot doing nothing else for minutes or hours of gameplay.
I am completely open to the idea of paying some gold to the NPC doing the work, and only applying a material fuel cost where it makes sense. Like coal for smelting and just gold for crushing.
I don't care enough about the suspension of disbelief when it comes to the character increasing the skill levels, when it's an NPC doing the actual work, compared to a system forcing players to stand still for long periods of time (or use alt accounts).
Crafting seems more about finding recipes (through combat?) and buying materials, than the crafting process itself. I do, however, love the idea of using extra materials to upgrade whatever you are making and the possibility of receiving recipe experience.
What I want to say is, I miss the gameplay part in Processing and Crafting professions that make me want to become a master in those, that makes me want to focus solely on those.
Another fantastic stream, night look a lot better. In theory we should use stations ourselves at the end of the day we are gaining XP and progressing, not a NPC doing work for us; but in the other hand some stuff will take hours to make a job complete so make sense. But using flowers to fuel processing wood sound kinda meh. Rest was just amazing the corrupted area at night, moon, lighting, recipes etc. Im happy with direction this is going.
Just please get rid off this squicky wood sound while crushing metals. Cant image hearing this for x amount of time over and over again. Broken stone sound is enough no need for this broken cat meoooow sound every time machine go up
Q: What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system? Do you have any concerns?
A: The current system and demonstration has removed all excitement I previously had for it for the following reasons:
1.) Inventory tetris mini-game is a level of complicated user interaction that unnecessarily burdens the player. Just give us bags that get bigger or have perks. I don't want inventory management to be so tedious - in it's current state it seems tedious and complicated in a way that negatively impacts my immersion, gameplay loop, and roleplaying experience.
While it is nice to be given rewards in the vein of bag size, stack size, weight management, etc. as you reach a new rank it should not come with the feeling of being something that must be so micro-managed.
2.) Why do you have the NPC's doing the processing instead of the player? You have really great animations for the NPC's but the demonstration made me feel disconnected from the process. How can you gain exp in processing if you yourself are not doing the processing? That is counter intuitive.
3.) Why are there no animations around the crafting of an item by the player? Perhaps it's not implemented yet but the lack of animation disconnects me from the process.
4.) The simple click to craft button and queing of crafting items seems like a very lazy approach. The simplicity I desire in inventory management is applied here and the complexity of crafting is applied in the bag system. This seems the be reversed to the type of crafting, processing, and gathering gameplay loop that I have most enjoyed in previous games.
Suggestion: take your tetris mini-game in the inventory and apply it to a critical thinking process of crafting. Take your material gradation idea and then implement different crafting processes that enhance or detracts from the values of certain aspects of the crafting. This is a much more productive investment in time from my perspective and one that would be welcome.
Q:) What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
A:) I appreciate this detail and I like that resources will have specific requirements that need to be met to be found, gathered, or used.
Q:) What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
A:) For the biggest issues please reference my above comments. In regards to the specifics around rarity of the same item, I like rarity as a modifier for crafting. I also like that the type of rarity or the type of component can change the expected stats on an item.
I would prefer there to be a way to control the range of values and, as mentioned above, that various combinations of techniques or unlocked crafting processes would narrow the range or even influence the outcome just as much as the materials used.
My general impression is that the crafting system, something that has been spoken of as being emphasized so much, is severely lacking in immersion, complexity, and the resulting outcomes seem underwhelming.
As a final suggestion, I noticed that there was nothing celebratory from a visual perspective around increasing your gathering rank in town. This is indicated as you reach a new level in the field but upon ranking up there is no visual. Please consider adding a rank up visual. It just feels good to have it.
I rewatched the stream this am. I do think the crafting of the tool seems like an unnecessary addition. Feels tedious and an additional step for something so BASIC. If we are can buy repair kits to keep in inventory, I would be fine with that OR if the tool had a much longer lifespan. But I don't want to have to go back n forth to the city/merchant for more tools or to repair when the world is so big. I'm afraid I would end up just staying close to cities vs being out adventuring and farming materials.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
What excites me the most about interacting with the Artisanship system is being a Grandmaster gatherer and being requested by Grandmaster processor or crafter who need a resource they can't gather. Similarly finding an ultra rare gatherable but needing to find and build trust and relationship with a Grandmaster processor/crafter to trust them with giving them this resource to build something with that ultra rare resource.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I am not necessarily concerned, because I have faith in the Intrepid team, but I do really hope that there is an immense diversity of resources to gather. Although this would make the array tables very large, I think it would greatly increase the joy of finding something you've been looking for for a long time, kind of like Rune hunting in D2.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
I appreciate having that base knowledge of how the cycle works, I look forward to the details we can dive into a much higher level.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
It's a great way to lower the amount of development time for individual elements so thats really good. And I could imaging that one of the most common materials, when harvested as a grandmaster with the proper equipmennt and the right conditions gives the one of the most rare material. Hidden things in the world like that are what make me really excited to be a gatherer. Example: Normally when you harvest a flower you get "flower petals" but if you harvest that same flower on only the very last day of fall if you sue the highest gathering tool you get "flower stigma". This means that you must try things, or read books in the library to learn this otherwise you will not know to do it! Sorry for the rant! So excited at all the possibilities!
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I love that there are intricacies to the optional resources, and potentially even the order? During the stream one of the dev's told Steven the Zinc first before the Oak, not sure if that is true but that would add even more complexity to the role table for the items which would be fun to understand through trial and error. I really hope that it is way more dynamic than what was shown in its final version.
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TeylouneMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited December 2023
Hejo,
The Alpha Two Artisanship Preview was pretty good. There was a lot that I liked, and I'm honestly a bit overloaded with all the good information that we got from this. So far, from what I've seen, I feel like everyone involved and working on this is doing a great job. Very solid-looking ideas and systems.
I found it difficult to see how good things actually looked until I watched the Artisanship Preview a second time in 4K on YouTube, since a lot of details were entirely lost while watching on Twitch at the max of 1080p.
I'm glad that there was an effort made to improve the nights. I would like to see the nights get just a tad bit darker, but the lights in the nodes also a tad bit brighter to make them pop more. However, I fully understand that if it gets too dark, it might become hard to play the game, and finding that balance requires a lot of tweaking.
I'm a big fan of the shooting stars! They look rather nice, and I cannot remember ever having seen one in a game, but that might be because you can't sell shooting stars to players in a shop. Who knows? I hope to see a shooting star shower during a nightly event. I would love that!
I absolutely loved Slurpy's massive sword! It looks quite close to some historical greatswords but with just the right amount of fantasy touch to it. Are there plans for weapon scaling based on race/height?
That you can wear both your Artisan Gear and Adventuring gear at the same time and can switch what is being displayed is a very player-friendly decision. I like that one a lot. Not having to switch between Artisan Gear to Adventuring gear is great because this has been a huge annoyance for me in other games to a point where I did not want to interact with their crafting systems. However, here I look forward to doing so. Good job!
I liked that it wasn't just shown how to gather resources but also the danger and risk involved.
The updated corrupted zones and a better explanation of how they can spread were good.
I like that you can level different Artisan Professions to different levels. That means players have to make meaningful decisions on what they want to specialize in. However, quite a few people have been confused by how many professions can be leveled up to what tier (Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Grandmaster), so I hope that it will be very easy for players to see and understand in the game how much further they can progress so that they do not make a mistake that gimps their character by leveling an Artisan Class too far by mistake.
That the crafting stations in the nodes have personal queues, and that the queues on Freeholds are shared with your Family and Guild(?) sounds interesting. I'm going to have to test that out in the game to really understand the difference and the impact of the difference here.
I very much like the 'Selectables' category in the crafting menu that allows me to use resources to upgrade what I am crafting into a higher Quality and how that affects the crafting; that seems like a really cool system. I hope it will be easy to see how the added 'Selectables' affect the stats.
I liked the idea of certain resources only being visible during certain times of the day or night. That means thinking about when to do things becomes a meaningful decision, and going to a place that I explored during the day might be worth revisiting during the night.
I would like to see this system be expanded to also different weathers, like for example a certain resource only showing up when it is raining or during a snowstorm.
I like the specialized material bags, and that you have to decide if you want to take several material bags of one type and be super efficient with stacking one specific type of material, or if you want to take a variety of different material bags.
I liked that we had all these awesome people in the Alpha Two Artisanship Preview that guided Steven through the whole process and explained how things worked. I feel like that helped a lot to make sure that Steven didn't just wander off and get lost in this awesome-looking world.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
I am all about exploring and tinkering with the possibilities I am given and one of the things that got me very excited is the material access shown in the livestream. Finding rare material for other players that they neither have the knowledge, ability and/or time for to acquire and having the methods of getting them as my own little "trade secret" is a great role for me to play as I want to venture out and learn about all the secrets in the world.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
Excitement - mainly the skill trees shown shown for gathering professions. That is awesome, but I hope that we cant just max the whole skill board and instead have to specialize in some way (i.e. maximize amount of resources found or increase our chances to harvest the highest materials from a source).
Concern - (1) While the colors of gatherables at night were beautiful, I thought they were a bit over the top as of now, I'd hope this will be toned down and maybe become part of the skill tree to spot specific resource types from further away. (2) I might have seen this wrong but it seemed like the stat bonuses for the higher tiered Night Blade only became visible when Steven inserted the necessary materials. As an artisan creating a piece of gear for a customer, I might want to be able to talk to him about what advantages it would have to bring me certain extra materials. Of course this could be a process of proficiency, meaning I'd have to craft a higher tier level gear piece once before the additional effects of adding things to the base piece will be noted down in my recipe book, but I'd want to know what doing extra gathering would get me before I invest the time in acquiring the optional resources.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Overall I thought it was already pretty good, at this point it looks like a solid cycle to me that we would probably see implemented this way in other games. However I think there are a few things that definitely can be improved upon.
(1) Materials didn't seem particularly rare, the surveying mechanic wasn't necessary to find any of that. This could be because it is not ready yet and obviously we wouldn't want to have a showcase of 30min searching one particular flower, but I would hope that we really need to put in some efforts for some gatherables. Being loot from a difficult boss fight shouldn't be the only type of "hard to come by" resource.
(2) For cutting down trees - This might just be a personal thing but I don't mind branches clipping into the ground if that means that the trunk at least touches the floor. This hasn't worked with every tree Steven cut down, but its a minor thing really.
(3) Maybe we can get some visual breakdown on the gatherable materials will gathering them? Like some leaves flying or being binded into a bushle for herbs, an actual cut appearing in the trunk of a tree before it falls or cracks going through rocks we are mining? Its something I liked in minecraft but it also added some nice flavor in the Pax Dei test and if it is not to complicated I would enjoy seeing that in Ashes as well.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
I'd give it an 8 out of 10 overall, but for an Alpha showcase this was a 9 out of 10 easily.
I think the level of visibility needs adjusting, but beyond that the idea that specific materials could transform like that is great.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
Difficult to say with the active part missing but I definitely like the tier system. It great to have the option to enhance the product with optional resources, though as mentioned before, it would definitely help to know what kinds of bonuses you can expect when you gather those additional materials otherwise it becomes a gamble with your time and efforts.
The other thing I was hoping to see was actually deconstruction. This will be important obviously so it's a bit unfortunate that we couldn't check that one out either - though I realize you still need some things to make it an artisan showcase trilogy ;D
As for the recipe book: It would be interesting to know what other features this will hold. Can I sort by products for which the necessary materials are already in my possession (inventory & storage)? If there are items that at some point no longer improve my proficiency - will this be something I can see in my book?
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Alpha Two Artisanship Preview shown during the November Development Update
I have a few things in mind that might be fun and hopefully not to complicated to implement:
Peculiar resources - I think a game that has a strong story base benefits greatly from rewarding people for their engagement with that lore. e.g. if you ask the old hag on how to find Twinklebells, she may not only say that those grow mainly in the enchanted forest at the other side of the map but she could also give us a litte rumor, if we helped her with a quest before, that if you kill a fairy near a Meadowbloom (I'm making up names here, its the mechanic that counts), that Meadowbloom will turn into a Twinklebell - and that happens more often in the enchanted forest but basically can be replicated anywhere. Soooo we could set out to verify or falsefy that rumor. And if one of these rumors turns out to be true, we found ourselves basically a great income source... that we might not want to share.
Backpacks - So I am fairly positive that bags in general are probably one of the most underestimated things in regards to their importance for this game. I wonder: How deep can we go with crafting them? It would be great to have the option to create a backpack that has a bit less space than the average bag but one slot will not drop its contents unless all other slots are empty (or the drop chance increases with every other possible tile in the same bag) for couriers. Can we decide to switch a few of the form for diffrent ones e.g. less of the 2-tiled-straight in favor of more 3-tiled-hook cause we might want a particular herb in that form which is great for healing potions.
Nametags & Lighting - On a more personal note, I'm still unclear about name tags in general. From how far do I see them? Can I see from afar whether they are purple (or red)? Will there be assistance for a colorblind dork like me? Does day and night time change the visibility of other players name tags (especially neutral or enemies)?
With all that being said, this was a great showcase, I feel this really is coming to the point where there is a lot of things for us to test in the Alpha 2, well made systems that even in their testing stage can be fun to work with. Keep it up guys, can't wait to see more!
Edit: At 1:40:00 on the main video manual crafting was stated to be a work in progress. Please take this feedback as my commentary on how important that gameplay layer is and how I am looking forward to seeing it!
Main feedback: At about 22 Minutes I saw the first tree come down and it was the old progress bar tree chopping mechanic. And then the ore at 23:30 same progress bar. Then you fight the wolfs around you and it's super engaging and busy on screen.
Can the gathering be more interactive? I love the bouncy tree too but is that all? I'd love to be a crafter/gatherer main but the gameplay in most MMO's is always just so droll. And it is always so bot friendly coincidentally???
At 43 minutes and at 47 minutes we see the first Start Job for processing and I can agree this specific task since it's being performed by an NPC does not warrant an interaction/user activity in the same way wood cutting would or mining. You are asking the NPC to complete a task for you and it is queued so you can go do other things.
Then again at 51 minutes we see Steven Create the Ax and again it's the standard progress bar. No player involvement other than the submit button.
Going back to the wolves combat vs the axe crafting. I mean; real life axe crafting is as involved as real life wolf fighting no? But seemingly in game, one gets more action and active play than the other, right?
At around 55 Minutes we see the group tree chop and I love it! Even with no "activity". I love that you needed 3 people to come together to bring the tree down. If there was an activity at all here maybe its gameplay synchronicity between the party members to successfully get the tree down? Kind of like in Dead by daylight with the generators.
At the 1 hour mark i love the ability to improve the quality of the weapon! However in line with the theme of the post. Steven Clicks and bar progress flys across the screen and pop comes the sword. No user activity.
The full gameplay loop is great! My feedback is to make the crafter gather job as fun for the crafter gather as it is for the user who gets to take that weapon out into the world and kill stuff with it in the combat loop of leveling and dungeons and raids etc. Its is ashes of "creation" after all right?
Thanks for your efforts on the game and great stream. Here is my other thoughts based on the prompt and a thread on the topic.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
I am looking forward to players needing the resources I gather/craft and a system that doesn't support botting. This will make me feel as though interacting with the artisan and gathering systems is worthwhile. Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
Main Concern Above. How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Explained above. I like it. If a tree needs three skilled crafters to chop it down that makes the resource rare and valuable. I am curious if Steven could have chopped it down by himself but similar to a dungeon or raid you need people to get things done!!! This is a great example of that applied to crafting/gathering. Come together and build things. What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
This is a very cool concept! I am sure with seasons time of day or lunar cycles or world events there will be more stones trees and herbs that become available right? What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I loved this and would like to see it applied to improving items dropped from bosses/raids etc. The best gear should come from the hardest content but also from those who work with the community to bring those items to life.
Artisanship looks very functional and interesting with how it interacts with different materials, player progression, and node progression... but doesn't look very fun on it's own. It seems like a lot of running around and waiting, plus a ton of knowledge checks (where do I find these dozen different materials, processing stations, NPCs, and crafting stations?). But I guess that makes sense. Artisanship drives the economy and creates most of the impetus for other forms of gameplay, so it doesn't need to be fun by itself.
But if that is the intended direction, then I hope Intrepid puts some effort into making sure these chores aren't too frustrating. For example, I don't like the sound of experimenting with multiple versions of a recipe. If different materials provide different stats, I would prefer to know all the possible combinations and results ahead of time, rather than experimenting blindly, and then throwing away the 80% of my work, because it turned out to be worthless....
On second thought, the better option is to make these "failed" experiments worthwhile rather than eliminating them altogether. Perhaps by giving an EXP bonus for first-time crafts, and/or allowing players to refund/salvage most of the materials from an unused item via deconstruction.
In any case, glad to see that more and more features are coming online. The complexity and interwoven nature of these systems is what really impresses me about AoC. So keep up the good work, and I can't wait to try it out in Beta.
Yeah, I generally hate dark-dark darkness in-game, cos it just means that I have to mess with my monitor brightness settings. But, it looks like you may have gauged it right. Look forward to trying it in person... in player... in character.... you know what I mean.
Comments
I think that this is the best Verra has looked so far(although I waited for the 4k Youtube video as Twitch bitrate doesn't do the aesthetics any favours) The golden shades of autumn brought the foilage to life in a way I've felt has been missing from previous "all green scenes". Colour is good!
The falling leaves, the occasional bird, the shooting stars (the night levels are ideal IMO) the sky box and the volumetric clouds were all super. (I would like to see some more "non-hostile" fauna, grazing cows, deer, stag, foxes, wild horses, and fantastical beasts, etc) The fireflies look fantastic (although perhaps need to be toned down just a tad) The corruption looks awesome and the ominous Harbinger lurking in the distance was great.
The Gathering is looking sweet. The chaos physics on the mining gatherables is *chefs kiss*. (A small suggestion would be to add a little spark or dust when/where the pickaxe makes contact with the stone to drive home that feeling of impact) Certain gatherables being available during different times or seasons is great.
I'll reserve commenting too much on the UI as it is still very much a WIP. A couple of thoughts though. I would like to see a definitive border around the mini-map. Consider playing around with the opacity levels to break up the large blocks of black space seen in menus (perhaps 80% opacity for backgrounds) Give the icons more 3D (or layered) qualities. Use coloured text to highlight important stats, numbers or pertinent information.
I'm not yet sold on the Tetris-style bag layouts. There is a part of me that thinks it is needless complication when standard-sized icons, weight, stacking and bag types allowing you to carry more of a certain type of resource is a simple, but more effective route to take.
Each of the different stations (Agricultural Supply, Stone Works, Wood Shop) all looked decent, although I would suggest they need a bit more flair. The anvil crafting "stations" were a bit paltry and whilst I liked the animations on the NPCs processing the wood and stone, the characters and their stations felt a bit underdeveloped and bland. More character, more atmosphere... these should be memorable locations to visit. (and will be used a lot!) go to town on them! I've mentioned before but NPCs (of all types) should feel like living breathing characters that you are interacting and engaging with. Not just static posts allowing you to open a UI from.
Having different quality of items as a result of using different quality of ingredients is fantastic. Using materials as fuel as a sink is also a good idea.
Overall I was very happy with the update. The world, gathering, processing and crafting are all looking good. The systems seem solid and I look forward to testing them out. The jury is still out on the Tetris-style bags and I would like to see more attention given to NPCs (and their interactions), more style and atmosphere given to stations and as always... even more life pumped into the world.
Great job Intrepid! Keep on going, with a present this good the future is looking bright!
Fantastic live stream so much to look forward to with AOC in 2024.
people will gather every single T1 tree and rock messing up with the economy making T1 stuff worthless and mess up with the environment manager system since everyone can collect stuff and damage other regions,
this also takes away from the social aspect and makes a singular player able to have their own artisan loop now without needing others, wish you kept the initial plan and tested first with being locked to 1 branch,
A concern I had watching this stream is that it seems like Intrepid is deviating from the original plan of mastering professions being a "monumental" achievement that you would be recognized in your region if you reached the highest tiers of crafting, if this was the case, there shouldn't ever be more than a handful of T5 crafters in a region at least for the first few months,
but from what It looks like now, guilds will boost multiple crafters to T5 in the first month, like in every other mmo, since it looks like everyone will be able to get to T4 and T5 crafting just by putting in some time, and since T5 crafting is available in nodes, you don't even need guild structure and having any social aspect,
my last hope is that for T5 items you actually require mats that only drop from the highest end-game content available like legendary raids or legendary world bosses, something that does require guild effort to achieve, because if its not like that, this system will be steamrolled through very quickly,
also, just adding in my feedback from a different post about the change to make night time darker,
as for positive feedback, game is looking amazing, hope performance is always the number 1, love the bag system with spacial inventory system its looking great and gives AoC's artisan system a unique aspect, very in dept system that I think its brilliant,
I really enjoyed seeing how processing works with fuel, gathering tools with durability, the corrupted zone looked absolutely amazing, overall very solid stream I enjoyed most of it
looking forward for the Ranger showcase next month, but please if possible ask Steven to showcase both action camera and tab camera mode and showcase combat in both modes
My concern is about the shirt, pants, tool belt, and bags. Very glad to hear there are assets coming for these. Perhaps an asset for player bags could be created as well. Especially a backpack, because it is a visual queue. It lets people around you know you may be carrying multiple items, or have the ability to carry multiple items.
The night opal and moon bell were certainly dope. The more assets created regarding resources going from point A(harvest) to point B(processing) the more belief players will have in Vera. May be your mount can move logs from the harvest site to the processor.
Fragments of various rarities to effect the stats of the item, I like it. One thing I will suggest about crafting. The possibility to lose your materials because of a failed attempt. It feels so good to finally craft the item after a couple of failed attempts. Your skill could have been higher before you made the attempt, there needs to be some type of risk and reward system when it comes to crafting. The higher your skill, the higher chance you have of crafting the item and not lose any materials. It is a surge of dopamine that is difficult to explain, like gambling I suppose. When you finally get the item you have been longing for all this time, IT FEELS SO GOOD because you can then show it off to your friends, remember scarcity.
I'm really glad that we went with the system in which plants during the day and night are a feature aside from the season change because it really brings an overall unique dynamic to harvesting rather then the static each area always has the same flowers and herbs growing.
I think what we saw so far in terms of the other processing stations is really cool as well. And I like that the lumberjack or other types of equipment has its own slot in a characters wearing inventory cause most games normally make you replace your wearables to have a herbalism equipment which i find annoying and usually never end up using them.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I see a lot of people upset about the durability system but honestly I feel like if we are going to make resources valuable consistently having the fuel cost, durability of items will help keep those systems functioning. I do however have a compromise which could help give a slight compromise to people worried about durability and the potential to breaking an item. I used to play a game that had a class that was able to repair a broken weapon by sacrificing some of the durability stats giving longer life to the item. In this game gear and pickaxes could be broken as well as any wearables but that class with the proper items found in the world could take a 0/100 durability item and turn it back into a 75/75 item by using the cost of rare items in game and having the class leveled high enough and sacrificing the items overall durability. Cause the game had items which could be crafted more powerful by chance like lucky upgrade. It's just a thought to give items reusability after broken. But honestly I feel durability is really going to keep the overall economy healthy and not make items become useless.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
The only thing I'm wondering about when it comes to gathering and resources is whether pvp can also happen as well as killing people for those resources like they have a possibility to drop. In the event that we get inundated with bots which eventually could happen since all games do eventually especially with now AI becoming a very easy thing to implement if we have the ability to kill bots we find and loot the resources even if it's just a portion of what they drop I feel like that can also help the dynamic of economy and balance the overall resource hunting as well.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
The night dynamic is brilliant I made a post before cause I was hoping that we would see those and gave some examples of flowers that grow at night. Not only is it good just for rarity and change the overall dynamic of the game but it helps the aesthetics of how the game looks at night. Hoping that we see more use of that and more examples as time goes on and we get introduced to more of the plants and flowers.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I think the selectable varies being different quality affecting the outcome is an interesting thought but I do want to see the dynamic of how well you do during the crafting game interaction effect the stats of the items result as well.
Like for example:
A green sword which was shown had the following stats:
Green 15 Physical Damage 10 Magic Penetration
Blue 10 Physical Damage 13 Magical Penetration 12 magical damage
Yellow 12 Physical Damage 18 Magical Penetration 16 magical damage
Getting a lucky craft of a green version could raise the base physical and magical penetration based on how good of a success you had like a range of 15 to 20 max for physical damage and a pen level 10 to 15 the next level of blue could be a 10 to 15 with magic pen and magic damage being increased as well. Or having the potential to add extra stats.
The reason being is it would be nice to have that option to keep crafting an item to get the best rolls on it especially when we reach a point in the end game where we want to best of the best and not just simply going to get the crafting material to get the highest tier and then that's it. This is what gives games replay ability like for example ARPG's like Path of Exile even if you find a unique item the stat's on that item might be total trash or the crafting you put into making your god tier bow might require a multi step process in order to get the best of the best.
College Lessons
The look and feel of the system is great. It's represented in a way that make you feel like you're doing something instead of just navigating a UI. I really like that you are putting multiple layers over the economy to allow people to specialize.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I'm excited about the exploration and survey aspect of gathering. I definitely want to see the time taken to explore rewarded in all parts of the game, not just gathering. I'm concerned about the actual crafting, when you finally made the sword, you just hit a button. It didn't feel like you did anything. I'd like to see some agency on the player's end. For example experimentation to change the outcome or affect the quality. I think it needs to feel like something you did, not just a button push after getting materials from others.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Looks great. Three levels of production will create a healthy economy as various goods compete for the same basic resources and processors make decisions about how to spend their time.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
Perfect. It, again, rewards exploration and knowledge. You need to actively search out items and resources. There is satisfaction in gaining a level of expertise around areas of the map and categories of resources.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
Not good. You just hit a button. I'd would want to see some experimentation and customization. You said during q&a that would come later.
The gathering and processing are the best I've seen in any MMO. I'd like to see the survey system shown and described a bit more, the idea sounds great (and similar to SWG) but it would be good to have some details.
Crafting depends on how the manual crafting works so wait and see there. I would say craft by craft unless you are building a large, generic batch of items.
I also worry about how actual items are leaving the economy, do we have durability on crafted items like weapons and armor?
There was this indie game that had weapon smithing where you had silhouette of a weapon you are making and behind it, a giant metal bar that you had to shape into a, lets say, sword.
You had this entire array of hammers that helped you get desired shape, with different intensity of hits. If you were successful you would get positive effect and if you went over the silhouette and damaged the weapon you would negative ones or in some extreme cases, a broken blade (useless).
I don't know-Maybe this is to complicated or people would get tired of that mechanic, but just an idea.
That's how you would level your weapon smithing-On trial and error.
If you messed up, it would be on you and not on RNG.
Night tuning was a good decision and I would really love to see how dark can it get indoor without any light source. Making things in a distance even more darker would be even better.Ofc, assuming its not something elevated like that tower in a video.
Snipe skill is visually is amazing. Reminds me of Dragons Dogma spell effects, a game you should look up to when it comes to spell effects-At least when it comes to color saturation of your spells.
That arrow barrage skill sound effect is just perfect. Again, compliments to your sound designer.
However I would like an option to do the job myself too, with better outcomes but the way to not be repetitive and boring like the NPC job. This queue job feels like you was not able to come up with a smart way of crafting these last 7 years. I am disappointed.
The crafting feels too primitive.
- one where you give it to the NPC and does it automatically as you showed in stream
- a more intricate crafting done manually, with multiple intermediate stages at the processing stage and with higher chance of failure but also with possibility to get better results.
It would make AoC unique in this regard and let players chose their preferred way.
The intermediate outputs in this proposed intricate manual processing should be character bound and stored in intermediate storage in the freehold which the crafter has to manage and relocate if needed but subject to become corrupted glint via PvP. Ideally the intricacy of manual crafting could have random (optional) steps specific to each player which could be discovered through experimentation. Then players will want to keep them secret. Those could also slightly change over time, from season to season, from year to year. Wood collected during winter could be boiled for a few minutes in salty water, or resin could be added in different amounts to oils etc. Characters who would attempt crafting after a longer break would have to discover again their specific knowledge how to craft efficiently.
Backpacks
- stacking bonus is a good idea based on bag type
- generally like the direction
Certification Quests
- good idea for levelling artisan skills
- option to skip on alts?
Crafting Gear Bonuses
- the simplicity of the bonuses is ideal.
- don't want to see overly intricate bonus systems
Biome Season
- autumn looks really good
- would like to see more multicoloured leaf transitions / multi-toned variations
- good to see different tree species transition differently
- would like to see more leaf in the seasonal overlay of the UI
- perhaps even seeing leaf's more dense or aggressive depending on weather
UI
- noticed a delay between the wolf's HP bar and the UI HP bar (top middle)
- noticed that the UI bar doesn't represent the damage dissolve visual either
Corruption zone
- looks good
- would like to see more chaotic visuals as it escalates such as lightning, (arc, heat, ring)
- looks good at night time as well
- would like to see the corruption embers be more dynamic on the tree. The glow feels static. A pulse or flare up would be better to see.
Night time
- sky box looks better and more profound
- darkness is in a better direction
- ambiance potential with design is much greater
- fire flies look good
- glow on specialised resources looks better
- would like to see clouds cast a shadows or affect the darkness slightly and temporarily as they pass over the moon
Processing
- looks good
- curious if there will be specific fuel types for higher end recipes
- can a single player occupy multiple stations at node?
Future Night Time and Biome/Weather
- going off the moon comment steven made..
- can we expect to see special moon effects based on location, time of day and weather? halos, sun dogs, etc
- northern lights?
- light pillars?
Please consider some sort of minigame for crafting. How well you know this minigame and how well you overcome complications during the minigame determines the grade of what you are crafting. You might have a look at how crafting was done in the old mmo "Vanguard: Saga of Heroes"
If the stats and quality of the crafted items only depends on the rarity of the ingredients, then everything you can achieve in this game depends on how well you (or someone you pay) are at fighting:
Fight a dragon -> Gather "Dragons Breath" -> Craft flaming sword
Survive a night at a corrupted grave yard -> Gather "Wiggling Bones" -> Craft Living Armor
Defeat Giant Tortoise -> Gather it's shield -> Craft Shield of Giantness
-Karp
SECTION: **Artisan System**
Recipes:
* I like that learning recipes is done with items and not just auto-unlocking. I hope that different regions make different recipes available based on their local resources allowing for more dynamic world interaction in different places.
Tools:
- I like that tools are crafted by the professions and not relying on a blacksmith to create the tools for you.
- I like that tools for each profession are equipped in the Artisan tab and you don't have to remember to switch each time you want to do a different task or gatherable.
Equipment:
* I like that crafting gear co-exists with adventuring gear. This is very important in a PvX game.
* Hopefully the bags will have a keyword on them on mouse over to indicate they are a bag. Right now it's very unclear that they are bags. The current UI icons don't do enough to convey that if you don't already know.
* I like the need to pick the right bags for my journey. Deciding between a 'general' bag, an 'herb' bag and a 'mining' bag will be important for the professions I'm planning on playing and the people I'm planning on playing with.
Profession Certification
- I like the certification system and the different tiers.
- I'm mildly disappointed that the restriction to 'category' (Crafting/Profession/Gathering) no longer exists for Master+. I liked that these were separate because it prevented the gatherers from processing their own thing and flooding the market. Having the middle-man creates a stop-gap from 'infinite' supply and demand to keep prices meaningful.
That said, the fact that there is a time limit on the smelting queues might serve the same purpose.
* I like that we can be a novice of every profession to try them out and do some basics. This allows players to decide what they want as they play rather than pick right at the start. It also allows players to be self-sufficient early while still allowing economic dependency later as characters progress.
Gathering
* I like the balance that the survey system allows for resources to exist without necessarily be showing on the world. This might allow for systems were people aren't necessarily competing for the same nodes on a timer (but obviously the resource conservation degradation system might make surveying give less results)
Processing
For context I intend to be a 'Processing Main'.
* I like the fuel system shown. It looks like you can add different fuels (like herbs). I wonder if different fuels will allow for different outcomes and alloys like the different crafting recipes (ie: iron ore smelted over corrupted wood might yield corrupted iron ingots - or cooking bacon over apple wood will give apple wood smoked bacon.)
* Queue system is a nice touch. There might be a layer where the more people using the same station in a node it could give a debuff which would be an equivalent simulation of too many people trying to use a station requiring it to be upgraded.
* Job size is nice, being able to batch them if your station is upgraded to be able to process more in the same slot (even if it takes the same amount of time as doing them individually).
* Would be nice if we can re-arrange jobs without cancelling them if something comes up that winds up being more urgent.
* I hope that there will be special recipe variations for ingots and other processing things. If you have Electrum that takes silver and gold ores but have an optional 'faery dust' component to make Fey Electrum that would give some kind of a bonus to whatever is crafted with it. This might be similar to whatever enchantment that exists that also requires faery dust to allow multiple paths to a similar result.
SECTION: **Night**
- The darkness is closer to what I wanted, might still be a bit brighter than I'd prefer. It is now dark enough that adventuring at night is a bit of a challenge (which is good!) I now hope we'll have torches or spells on Mages, Clerics, /Mages and /Clerics to help see in the dark.
- I like that at one point you said 'Night is at least an hour away'. This indicates that the day/night cycle isn't an hour each like in many games. Also I hope that winter has longer nights and summer has shorter nights - because that's how seasons work.
- In addition to the above I like that resources can exist based on day/night as well, which will create some cycles for items to increase scarcity because you might not be able to get everything you want in the times you log on.
- it doesn't look like shadows cast on the player model (but they do on other player models). I don't know if that was intentional so you could always see your character or not.
SECTION: **Corrupted Zones**
- These look great and are a lot more thematic than recent previous games.
- Mild worry that when there are special resources and predicates that trigger from these. This is going to create some conflict between those that want to clear these areas vs people that might want to let them spread for those events to trigger.
SECTION: **Other Notes**
* 'Wanting to have a viable option for every build that players want to try' This makes me SUPER happy. As someone who really wants to see bow using Weaponmater (fighter/fighter) bow users and melee Striders (Ranger/Fighter) I'm glad to hear this kind of statement.
* In the Q&A you clarified that mules use the cargo system, not the regular inventory system. This alleviates some of my concern I had from last stream since it's previously been said you can be green on a mule. It's limited to smallest cargo sizes, but it's at least something to do these things without the full risk of the caravan system.
* Steven had an echo when he got excited/loud. I think there was someone in the background watching the video (Margaret?) at the same time he was recording it and it was creating a mild feedback. They should wear headphones.
This is a great point. Given that the players have lived in Sanctus our whole lives and we developed technology without magic, it would make sense for these to be somewhat automated (windmills/gravity powered etc) rather than having an NPC doing things (as much as I love the NPC animations. The debarker was quite notable)
I was actually a little surprised by this since they are in-node. Why did the processing results not go to Node Storage? We shouldn't have to need to carry materials to/from storage if node storage exists.
Agree
It is. One of the systems they've indicated for the Science nodes is that you have to go to the high level ones to master your skills.
I share the first concern. However the second isn't a concern assuming they keep to the need for Science nodes to level up your professions (this was stated in the past and is on the wiki). In that situation, there won't be any Masters/Grandmasters until a sufficient level Science node exists (which will probably take longer than a month)
Unfortunately, I feel like the Processing and Crafting part feels kind of underwhelming in comparison. It could be that I don’t understand it well enough, or can’t see the possibilities yet, but right now I don’t see the appeal in putting my hard-earned skill points into those professions. Processing seems like an automated system, as long as I have the materials and find a processing station, I just need to wait and it’s done. If I understand correctly, the high-end processing stations are found at Freeholds, meaning that I need to get myself a Freehold, which won’t be cheap, or get permission to use someone else’s Freehold stations. Once there, I once again, process the materials by giving them and waiting. It seems like there is little to do as someone who focuses on processing. Why would I try to master those professions?
The Crafting part has the same problem. I first need to find the recipes before I can start making something. Once I got the recipe, I need processed materials. If I have bought a recipe and the necessary materials I go to the crafting station and craft it by just waiting until it’s done. Crafting seems more about finding recipes (through combat?) and buying materials, than the crafting process itself. I do, however, love the idea of using extra materials to upgrade whatever you are making and the possibility of receiving recipe experience.
What I want to say is, I miss the gameplay part in Processing and Crafting professions that make me want to become a master in those, that makes me want to focus solely on those. If it’s talking about the whole process, from gathering resources to making a final product, there is enough gameplay. But as far as I understand, I can’t be a master in all three, Gathering, Processing, and Crafting. If I focus on Crafting, I can’t process the best materials I need for the best recipes, and I can’t gather the materials I need for that processing since those are too high-end. All I can do is buy materials, choose the unique combination, click the craft button, and wait. Processing and Crafting professions seem to have more to do with buying and selling than with the profession itself, with the act of processing or crafting itself.
Going into combat and defeating enemies is something I could do hour after hour. Running around and finding new materials is something I could do hour after hour. However, processing wood seems like something you do while you're doing something else, and crafting a staff or a chair out of the wood seems like something you either do by waiting if it has a long duration or by repeatedly clicking the same button.
I would like to show my support for the current processing model, where it's an NPC doing the work and the players just adding things to the queue.
1. Economy
Steven said during the livestream that they are actively limiting the amount of materials in the artisan chain via the processing system. We know from the wiki that the higher tier stuff can take days to process, with upgraded processing stations cuttting that time in half at max station upgrade level.
By forcing players to stay stuck at processing stations, they have to *severely* reduce the amount of time it takes to process things, which essentially causes them to have to redo the entire planned game economy balance and the other artisanship systems as well. That's gonna take a lot of time, caused by such a seemingly small change.
2. Boredom, alts and afk gameplay
Forcing players to stay stuck in animation while processing incentivizes AFK gameplay, alts on second accounts made for just that purpose, and it's just really boring gameplay. I don't want to see BDO lifeskilling recreated here.
3. Collision, visuals and PvP
Especially in nodes, having 100 players stand on top of each other - like, inside each other - working the same crusher is just bad visually. Also it would mess up the collision detection system that is still present at all times, including in nodes, and for PvP purposes it's horrible too. People can try to hide in the stack, forcing attackers to have to cycle through the stack of people one by one to target the specific player, or if they just use AOE, get corruption worth a lifetime.
Then there is the question of being caught in PvP while processing. A lot of that can be mitigated by allowing players to instantly leave and such, but I would still very much prefer them not forcing players into these locked positions for longer than is absolutely necessary.
4. Freehold processing
I considered if a more hands-on approach could be used in freeholds, since there are fewer players interacting with the stations, but all the other negatives would still apply. I would much rather the same system is applied to processing in freeholds, than differentiating between the two.
5. Conclusion
I would much rather see Intrepid allowing players to run back and forth between stations, queueing up different process jobs and being active than the soporific standing still in one spot doing nothing else for minutes or hours of gameplay.
I am completely open to the idea of paying some gold to the NPC doing the work, and only applying a material fuel cost where it makes sense. Like coal for smelting and just gold for crushing.
I don't care enough about the suspension of disbelief when it comes to the character increasing the skill levels, when it's an NPC doing the actual work, compared to a system forcing players to stand still for long periods of time (or use alt accounts).
I totally agree.
You nailed it.
Just please get rid off this squicky wood sound while crushing metals. Cant image hearing this for x amount of time over and over again. Broken stone sound is enough no need for this broken cat meoooow sound every time machine go up
Q: What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system? Do you have any concerns?
A: The current system and demonstration has removed all excitement I previously had for it for the following reasons:
1.) Inventory tetris mini-game is a level of complicated user interaction that unnecessarily burdens the player. Just give us bags that get bigger or have perks. I don't want inventory management to be so tedious - in it's current state it seems tedious and complicated in a way that negatively impacts my immersion, gameplay loop, and roleplaying experience.
While it is nice to be given rewards in the vein of bag size, stack size, weight management, etc. as you reach a new rank it should not come with the feeling of being something that must be so micro-managed.
2.) Why do you have the NPC's doing the processing instead of the player? You have really great animations for the NPC's but the demonstration made me feel disconnected from the process. How can you gain exp in processing if you yourself are not doing the processing? That is counter intuitive.
3.) Why are there no animations around the crafting of an item by the player? Perhaps it's not implemented yet but the lack of animation disconnects me from the process.
4.) The simple click to craft button and queing of crafting items seems like a very lazy approach. The simplicity I desire in inventory management is applied here and the complexity of crafting is applied in the bag system. This seems the be reversed to the type of crafting, processing, and gathering gameplay loop that I have most enjoyed in previous games.
Suggestion: take your tetris mini-game in the inventory and apply it to a critical thinking process of crafting. Take your material gradation idea and then implement different crafting processes that enhance or detracts from the values of certain aspects of the crafting. This is a much more productive investment in time from my perspective and one that would be welcome.
Q:) What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
A:) I appreciate this detail and I like that resources will have specific requirements that need to be met to be found, gathered, or used.
Q:) What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
A:) For the biggest issues please reference my above comments. In regards to the specifics around rarity of the same item, I like rarity as a modifier for crafting. I also like that the type of rarity or the type of component can change the expected stats on an item.
I would prefer there to be a way to control the range of values and, as mentioned above, that various combinations of techniques or unlocked crafting processes would narrow the range or even influence the outcome just as much as the materials used.
My general impression is that the crafting system, something that has been spoken of as being emphasized so much, is severely lacking in immersion, complexity, and the resulting outcomes seem underwhelming.
As a final suggestion, I noticed that there was nothing celebratory from a visual perspective around increasing your gathering rank in town. This is indicated as you reach a new level in the field but upon ranking up there is no visual. Please consider adding a rank up visual. It just feels good to have it.
What excites me the most about interacting with the Artisanship system is being a Grandmaster gatherer and being requested by Grandmaster processor or crafter who need a resource they can't gather. Similarly finding an ultra rare gatherable but needing to find and build trust and relationship with a Grandmaster processor/crafter to trust them with giving them this resource to build something with that ultra rare resource.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
I am not necessarily concerned, because I have faith in the Intrepid team, but I do really hope that there is an immense diversity of resources to gather. Although this would make the array tables very large, I think it would greatly increase the joy of finding something you've been looking for for a long time, kind of like Rune hunting in D2.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
I appreciate having that base knowledge of how the cycle works, I look forward to the details we can dive into a much higher level.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
It's a great way to lower the amount of development time for individual elements so thats really good. And I could imaging that one of the most common materials, when harvested as a grandmaster with the proper equipmennt and the right conditions gives the one of the most rare material. Hidden things in the world like that are what make me really excited to be a gatherer. Example: Normally when you harvest a flower you get "flower petals" but if you harvest that same flower on only the very last day of fall if you sue the highest gathering tool you get "flower stigma". This means that you must try things, or read books in the library to learn this otherwise you will not know to do it! Sorry for the rant! So excited at all the possibilities!
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I love that there are intricacies to the optional resources, and potentially even the order? During the stream one of the dev's told Steven the Zinc first before the Oak, not sure if that is true but that would add even more complexity to the role table for the items which would be fun to understand through trial and error. I really hope that it is way more dynamic than what was shown in its final version.
The Alpha Two Artisanship Preview was pretty good. There was a lot that I liked, and I'm honestly a bit overloaded with all the good information that we got from this. So far, from what I've seen, I feel like everyone involved and working on this is doing a great job. Very solid-looking ideas and systems.
I found it difficult to see how good things actually looked until I watched the Artisanship Preview a second time in 4K on YouTube, since a lot of details were entirely lost while watching on Twitch at the max of 1080p.
I'm glad that there was an effort made to improve the nights. I would like to see the nights get just a tad bit darker, but the lights in the nodes also a tad bit brighter to make them pop more. However, I fully understand that if it gets too dark, it might become hard to play the game, and finding that balance requires a lot of tweaking.
I'm a big fan of the shooting stars! They look rather nice, and I cannot remember ever having seen one in a game, but that might be because you can't sell shooting stars to players in a shop. Who knows? I hope to see a shooting star shower during a nightly event. I would love that!
I absolutely loved Slurpy's massive sword! It looks quite close to some historical greatswords but with just the right amount of fantasy touch to it. Are there plans for weapon scaling based on race/height?
That you can wear both your Artisan Gear and Adventuring gear at the same time and can switch what is being displayed is a very player-friendly decision. I like that one a lot. Not having to switch between Artisan Gear to Adventuring gear is great because this has been a huge annoyance for me in other games to a point where I did not want to interact with their crafting systems. However, here I look forward to doing so. Good job!
I liked that it wasn't just shown how to gather resources but also the danger and risk involved.
The updated corrupted zones and a better explanation of how they can spread were good.
I like that you can level different Artisan Professions to different levels. That means players have to make meaningful decisions on what they want to specialize in. However, quite a few people have been confused by how many professions can be leveled up to what tier (Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Grandmaster), so I hope that it will be very easy for players to see and understand in the game how much further they can progress so that they do not make a mistake that gimps their character by leveling an Artisan Class too far by mistake.
That the crafting stations in the nodes have personal queues, and that the queues on Freeholds are shared with your Family and Guild(?) sounds interesting. I'm going to have to test that out in the game to really understand the difference and the impact of the difference here.
I very much like the 'Selectables' category in the crafting menu that allows me to use resources to upgrade what I am crafting into a higher Quality and how that affects the crafting; that seems like a really cool system. I hope it will be easy to see how the added 'Selectables' affect the stats.
I liked the idea of certain resources only being visible during certain times of the day or night. That means thinking about when to do things becomes a meaningful decision, and going to a place that I explored during the day might be worth revisiting during the night.
I would like to see this system be expanded to also different weathers, like for example a certain resource only showing up when it is raining or during a snowstorm.
I like the specialized material bags, and that you have to decide if you want to take several material bags of one type and be super efficient with stacking one specific type of material, or if you want to take a variety of different material bags.
I liked that we had all these awesome people in the Alpha Two Artisanship Preview that guided Steven through the whole process and explained how things worked. I feel like that helped a lot to make sure that Steven didn't just wander off and get lost in this awesome-looking world.
I am all about exploring and tinkering with the possibilities I am given and one of the things that got me very excited is the material access shown in the livestream. Finding rare material for other players that they neither have the knowledge, ability and/or time for to acquire and having the methods of getting them as my own little "trade secret" is a great role for me to play as I want to venture out and learn about all the secrets in the world.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
Excitement - mainly the skill trees shown shown for gathering professions. That is awesome, but I hope that we cant just max the whole skill board and instead have to specialize in some way (i.e. maximize amount of resources found or increase our chances to harvest the highest materials from a source).
Concern - (1) While the colors of gatherables at night were beautiful, I thought they were a bit over the top as of now, I'd hope this will be toned down and maybe become part of the skill tree to spot specific resource types from further away. (2) I might have seen this wrong but it seemed like the stat bonuses for the higher tiered Night Blade only became visible when Steven inserted the necessary materials. As an artisan creating a piece of gear for a customer, I might want to be able to talk to him about what advantages it would have to bring me certain extra materials. Of course this could be a process of proficiency, meaning I'd have to craft a higher tier level gear piece once before the additional effects of adding things to the base piece will be noted down in my recipe book, but I'd want to know what doing extra gathering would get me before I invest the time in acquiring the optional resources.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Overall I thought it was already pretty good, at this point it looks like a solid cycle to me that we would probably see implemented this way in other games. However I think there are a few things that definitely can be improved upon.
(1) Materials didn't seem particularly rare, the surveying mechanic wasn't necessary to find any of that. This could be because it is not ready yet and obviously we wouldn't want to have a showcase of 30min searching one particular flower, but I would hope that we really need to put in some efforts for some gatherables. Being loot from a difficult boss fight shouldn't be the only type of "hard to come by" resource.
(2) For cutting down trees - This might just be a personal thing but I don't mind branches clipping into the ground if that means that the trunk at least touches the floor. This hasn't worked with every tree Steven cut down, but its a minor thing really.
(3) Maybe we can get some visual breakdown on the gatherable materials will gathering them? Like some leaves flying or being binded into a bushle for herbs, an actual cut appearing in the trunk of a tree before it falls or cracks going through rocks we are mining? Its something I liked in minecraft but it also added some nice flavor in the Pax Dei test and if it is not to complicated I would enjoy seeing that in Ashes as well.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
I'd give it an 8 out of 10 overall, but for an Alpha showcase this was a 9 out of 10 easily.
I think the level of visibility needs adjusting, but beyond that the idea that specific materials could transform like that is great.
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
Difficult to say with the active part missing but I definitely like the tier system. It great to have the option to enhance the product with optional resources, though as mentioned before, it would definitely help to know what kinds of bonuses you can expect when you gather those additional materials otherwise it becomes a gamble with your time and efforts.
The other thing I was hoping to see was actually deconstruction. This will be important obviously so it's a bit unfortunate that we couldn't check that one out either - though I realize you still need some things to make it an artisan showcase trilogy ;D
As for the recipe book: It would be interesting to know what other features this will hold. Can I sort by products for which the necessary materials are already in my possession (inventory & storage)? If there are items that at some point no longer improve my proficiency - will this be something I can see in my book?
Please don’t feel limited by the thought starters above. Feel free to share anything you’d like about Ashes of Creation’s Alpha Two Artisanship Preview shown during the November Development Update
I have a few things in mind that might be fun and hopefully not to complicated to implement:
With all that being said, this was a great showcase, I feel this really is coming to the point where there is a lot of things for us to test in the Alpha 2, well made systems that even in their testing stage can be fun to work with. Keep it up guys, can't wait to see more!
Main feedback: At about 22 Minutes I saw the first tree come down and it was the old progress bar tree chopping mechanic. And then the ore at 23:30 same progress bar. Then you fight the wolfs around you and it's super engaging and busy on screen.
Can the gathering be more interactive? I love the bouncy tree too but is that all? I'd love to be a crafter/gatherer main but the gameplay in most MMO's is always just so droll. And it is always so bot friendly coincidentally???
At 43 minutes and at 47 minutes we see the first Start Job for processing and I can agree this specific task since it's being performed by an NPC does not warrant an interaction/user activity in the same way wood cutting would or mining. You are asking the NPC to complete a task for you and it is queued so you can go do other things.
Then again at 51 minutes we see Steven Create the Ax and again it's the standard progress bar. No player involvement other than the submit button.
Going back to the wolves combat vs the axe crafting. I mean; real life axe crafting is as involved as real life wolf fighting no? But seemingly in game, one gets more action and active play than the other, right?
At around 55 Minutes we see the group tree chop and I love it! Even with no "activity". I love that you needed 3 people to come together to bring the tree down. If there was an activity at all here maybe its gameplay synchronicity between the party members to successfully get the tree down? Kind of like in Dead by daylight with the generators.
At the 1 hour mark i love the ability to improve the quality of the weapon! However in line with the theme of the post. Steven Clicks and bar progress flys across the screen and pop comes the sword. No user activity.
The full gameplay loop is great! My feedback is to make the crafter gather job as fun for the crafter gather as it is for the user who gets to take that weapon out into the world and kill stuff with it in the combat loop of leveling and dungeons and raids etc. Its is ashes of "creation" after all right?
Thanks for your efforts on the game and great stream. Here is my other thoughts based on the prompt and a thread on the topic.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/56743/artisan-and-gathering-progress-bar-style-gameplay-mmos-need-to-stop-doing-this#latest
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Artisanship system?
I am looking forward to players needing the resources I gather/craft and a system that doesn't support botting. This will make me feel as though interacting with the artisan and gathering systems is worthwhile.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Artisanship Preview?
Main Concern Above.
How do you feel about the full-cycle of Artisanship shown during the November livestream?
Explained above. I like it. If a tree needs three skilled crafters to chop it down that makes the resource rare and valuable. I am curious if Steven could have chopped it down by himself but similar to a dungeon or raid you need people to get things done!!! This is a great example of that applied to crafting/gathering. Come together and build things.
What is your impression of the dynamics shown with gathering? (E.g. Nightstone being invisible during the day, and visible at night)
This is a very cool concept! I am sure with seasons time of day or lunar cycles or world events there will be more stones trees and herbs that become available right?
What is your impression of the crafting portion of the livestream? (E.g. Using fragments of various rarities to affect the stats of the item)
I loved this and would like to see it applied to improving items dropped from bosses/raids etc. The best gear should come from the hardest content but also from those who work with the community to bring those items to life.
Night time dark =
But if that is the intended direction, then I hope Intrepid puts some effort into making sure these chores aren't too frustrating. For example, I don't like the sound of experimenting with multiple versions of a recipe. If different materials provide different stats, I would prefer to know all the possible combinations and results ahead of time, rather than experimenting blindly, and then throwing away the 80% of my work, because it turned out to be worthless....
On second thought, the better option is to make these "failed" experiments worthwhile rather than eliminating them altogether. Perhaps by giving an EXP bonus for first-time crafts, and/or allowing players to refund/salvage most of the materials from an unused item via deconstruction.
In any case, glad to see that more and more features are coming online. The complexity and interwoven nature of these systems is what really impresses me about AoC. So keep up the good work, and I can't wait to try it out in Beta.