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Two mana bars instead of one!
Arya_Yeshe
Member
Since I like hearing people's opions just for the sake of it, I will toss something wild into the mix, untested and unheard of, could be a complete disaster or success:
For parties:
Very wild!
Why do something like this:
I'm simply throwing this onto the table, I am curious to see people's beliefs and what they feel about this, I don't think this exists afaik. I am intrigued, I mean you want group effects and is not willing to commit the mana for the group?
- personal mana bar only: for solo players
- personal + party mana bar: for parties
For parties:
- in a party, AoE spells draw from the party mana, if someone excessively spams AoE then party mana would deplete for the entire party
- party mana bar would regenerate based on the members regeneration, fill your personal bar and then fill the party bar, people would prefer to strategically use AoE
- If the party mana pool bar is empty, you could still use AoE. However, casting AoE again would draw mana from your personal mana with an additional cost of 50%. If the party bar has 50 mana and the spell costs 100, then you would consume those last 50 mana and 75 mana from your personal bar (50 * (50 * 1.50))
- single-target spells would initially draw mana from your individual mana bar. When your personal mana is empty, the next single-target spell would draw mana from the party mana instead (if you have your own mana in the party bar), with no additional cost
- how much mana would be taken from your personal bar and stored in to the party mana pool would depend on the AoE spells you have, if you only have AoE then all your mana would go to the party mana bar
- if you only have single target spells then you wouldn't share anything with the party
Very wild!
Why do something like this:
- it is party and zergging mechanic
- counters mind numbing AoE spam
- people would have to play stategically and consider your options better
- organized parties would survive more, disorganized parties would burn the mana as a group and then implode
- on first contact there would be a bang of AoE and then people would jump on individual targets
I'm simply throwing this onto the table, I am curious to see people's beliefs and what they feel about this, I don't think this exists afaik. I am intrigued, I mean you want group effects and is not willing to commit the mana for the group?
PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
1
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Split would recalculate the bar, the party bar is just a mirrage, do you see?
If my character has 1000 mana and I have some AoE spells that syphon 500 mana to the party mana... once I move to another party then they will have my 500 mana there and the previous party would not have it anymore.
I believe that unconsciouss, dead, out of range people should take back then mana that belongs to them from the party bar, since they could be over there trying to fight for their lives against someone. Also, if they died with some mana, this shouldn't be available for the party anymore.
We have parties of 8 players and raids of 40 players.
My question was what happens if the 40 players stay in the raid but split on the map, traveling in different directions and meeting again later.
You want each player to see a 2nd mana pool bigger or smaller depending on how many players are around or how many players are in the raid?
There is also this: how do you know how much of your mana is in the party bar? Well, the full bar could have 100.000 mp and you contributed with 4.000 mp. If you leave the party when the bar is at 63.000 mp then you would get back to your personal bar only:
X=(63000*500)/100000= 3150 mp
Just stick with the simplest possible math and only calculate it when something relevant happens, like a member is not active anymore (leaves or dies) and in the option of Adaptive bar then it would include the bar recalculation in group split and merge
A large disorganized group would just burn all their mana with the 50% penalty and then crumble
In the case of Static mana bar, a squad of healers would greatly increase the value of competent healers, in all games I played very few people wanted to be the healer. Also, having a shared bar would greatly increase the value of consumables for mana regeneration, people would even share their potions with others just to make sure that bar is filled
There's some social gains in this
whatt?now you get more mana and more spam o-o
It is, until you deplete the party mana and start burnning 50% more mana
There is less mana now, after the party spent the party mana in AoEs then you will start burnning mana 50% faster if you cast more AoE
Then you fill up your party with single-target classes tuned for high mana high dmg abilities. Give them a single aoe augment (if they somehow don't have an aoe at all) and just let those fuckers use up the party mana with their solo skills, while it all gets regened at way higher speeds than their own.
So, unless we go with the crazy scaling aoes from another thread - solo snipers would use this strat to simply annihilate players in super quick succession.
Oh, and just to be clear here - I don't really like this
But when players team up, the 2nd bar would merge and become a common mana pool, with advantages and disadvantages.
Or when the 2nd mana pool is created, the private mana pool would become smaller, and the total amount of mana would be the same.
The advantage would be to allow more powerful but less frequent spells. One would be the main caster, selecting the target area and trigger the cast, the others would assist to protect or extend range by positioning themselves properly on the battlefield.
It is just a step away from:
Up to eight players of the same primary archetype can band together to create monumental effects during a siege.[3]
you said that the regen will be based on the members regen. if i understood correctly, this extra bar will have higher regen since it will be based on the individual members regen combined?
also, if there is less mana, then this is less anti zerg, because you cant cast as often. the zerg will have more members and parties casting aoe than you.
It is all a trade off, so such batteries would have much less hp, much less damage and would do nothing at all?
Well, if it is a group strategy it is valid, still an AoE span would deplete the party mana
People specialized in single target spells are not toxic to the gameplay, they are fine
The bar is a mirage, mana will regen on the same amount as solo players, the mana will just be summed up in the party mana bar. However, this opens the opportunity for an agreement between party members about letting strongest mages use the mana while the others use their staffs and other resources. It's a group effort
The great different is that if you can link people in a mana pool and take this mana from AoE spells then they would end up burnning 50% more mana if they insist spamming. They would have to be smart about how to manage their mana and use the AoC strategically
If such group had a couple mages used as batteries, only adding mana while trying to use mostly single target spells, than that's fine
If the group decides to nuke the other party by everybody using their AoE, they will still be able to do it, but the party mana will be gone and so their individual mana will burn 50% faster. The defenders will do what they can to survive and counter the attackers who will have almost no mana
If people are a a party and want all the benefits of being in the party then they should contribute to something and should have a drawback in AoE spam/zergging. People come together and share the benefits and the risks, be punished as a group for their lack of coordination and leadership
However, solo players do not have party benefits like boosts and heals, so it's a trade off... they keep solo and share nothing while not receiving any benefit for being in a party So, such second mana bar for AoE would punish people individually, which I would pass and I don't think it has the vision for AoC
Absolutely, a very good mage would be of high value to the party and he would be calling the shots
Yes, it vibes with the idea of siege summons, where people put together their strengh and their actions
Either way, I feel like this system would be a bit too complex for majority of people and simply too convoluted for others.
if i have 200 mana and i regen 20 mana per second and you have 100 mana and u regen 5 mana per second, how much mana our bar should have and how much should it regen per second?
thats what i mean. if we just add everything, now we both have an extra 300 mana that regens at 25 mana per second. i get a bit more, but you basically have infinite mana.
if you assume there will be only one person casting the AoE, then yes, possibly this one guy com cast infinite AoE. That's fine, that is tankable
I don't think it's necessary, I just believe it would make thinks more spicy and strategical, people would have to actually think instead of just spamming F1
Both sides will burst, that's for sure, I will assume balancing everything will take many months or maybe years
And put all that red blood into the tanks
WIth this, what I would do is place a character in the opposing raid/raids for things like node wars, sieges and caravans. This is all content in which you don't have control at all over who is on your side and who isn't.
Then I would just spam AoE's to deplete this second mana bar.
As a suggestion, this would only ever work in a game where organised groups are the expectation all the time. Ashes is more about community content where anyone (regardless of motivation) can join.
Any suggestion made needs to take in to account that not everyone in your raid is necessarily on your side.
You would be kicked out the party, I considered this possibility, that's why this is purely party based, there's also party boosts and heals.
It's a trade off, it's like being in spiritual communion with the party for all those boosts and heals, however even a part of the mana would be mixed in this communion making it party mana. That's what I came up with to justify such thing lorewise
Even if we just ignore the definate fact that people will do as I said above (even if nothing else it forces your rivals to keep an eye on their own raid when they should be focusing on yours), there is the matter of people simply not knowing better.
In Ashes, you WILL end up in groups and raids with complete randoms at times. It will happen in sieges, it will happen with caravans. These are content pieces that are open to anyone that wants to participate.
Intrepid putting in a mechanic that gives people a very specific reason to not want these people to come along is counter intuitive to what the game is as a whole.
Edit to add; as an idea, this is something that would probably work reasonably well in a game that is designed around the notion of either mostly or always only grouping with people you know well. Its Ashes notion of community content being a fairly large aspect of the game that makes this (and a number of other peoples suggestions) not work well in my mind.