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COMBAT - More SKILL shot abilities

VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
edited December 2023 in General Discussion
We need MORE of these for all ARCHTYPE / CLASSES

It's the blend of "action combat" that could really allow for more dynamic combat, with the use of the action camera.

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Comments

  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    why tf would a cleric need skill shots?
    img]
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  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    why tf would a cleric need skill shots?
    High value low cost healing that requires very good teamwork during hectic gameplay.

    Obviously the pve would have to be reaaaal difficult to counterbalance the OP potential of such a heal, but still.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Liniker wrote: »
    why tf would a cleric need skill shots?
    High value low cost healing that requires very good teamwork during hectic gameplay.

    Obviously the pve would have to be reaaaal difficult to counterbalance the OP potential of such a heal, but still.

    Having seen their stuff evolve, I'm gonna have to agree with Liniker here, though.

    Back when I thought Ashes was going to be very Hybrid, there was some benefit to having these because it would put pressure on the Cleric's personal positioning in terms of their ability to track where damage was going to come from (i.e. other people's powerful skillshots).

    But as it slowly appears to move away from that back towards the base standard, this positioning complexity could be achieved through just the 'Chain Heals' and 'Formation Heals'. This isn't to say I'm not glad for what they seem to have already, but they don't necessarily need more.

    Balancing 'skillshot' healing with the rest of the way the game works right now (assuming Evasion even applies to Headshot and Snipe since they are 'kinda Tab Target' at least) would just be lessening the appeal of Cleric to a lot more of the type of person who wants to play Cleric.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    NiKr wrote: »
    High value low cost healing that requires very good teamwork during hectic gameplay.

    Obviously the pve would have to be reaaaal difficult to counterbalance the OP potential of such a heal, but still.

    yea... nah, big pass for me, can't think of a single MMO that had skill shot healing, not even full action games like new world, they added target locking for a reason, it sucks
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  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    why tf would a cleric need skill shots?

    I mean clerics don't ONLY heal.

    Like com'on
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Imo making support more difficult to use in this type of game just makes people complain. Leave the skill shot stuff to competition elements in it rather than the cooperative elements.

    Granted it doesn't mean you won't have a skill shot that upon hitting enemies it can heal yourself or your team based on class customization.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    We need MORE of these for all ARCHTYPE / CLASSES

    It's the blend of "action combat" that could really allow for more dynamic combat, with the use of the action camera.

    cgpzyj6vdcm9.png

    Aye. More skill shots and we need to see the action camera functionality as Steven stated it to be.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    High value low cost healing that requires very good teamwork during hectic gameplay.

    Obviously the pve would have to be reaaaal difficult to counterbalance the OP potential of such a heal, but still.

    yea... nah, big pass for me, can't think of a single MMO that had skill shot healing, not even full action games like new world, they added target locking for a reason, it sucks

    Best Healers I’ve ever seen came out of Darkfall Unholy Wars and that was pure action.

    By best healers I mean they were better MMO players.
  • DK SLATERDK SLATER Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    why tf would a cleric need skill shots?

    Don't ground targeted AoEs also count as skillshots?
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    Aimed target specific healing is terrible, worse than portrait wack a mole. It will end up getting shunned in class meta comps. So just forget it as skill based ability enhancement...because it never feels as rewarding as you believe it should be and will never perform better than other healing ability applications...

    Although I did have more hope for 'aimed' reticle abilities the outcome after apocalypse "testing" with its heavy 3rd person shooter style into a more GW2 tab/soft lock... with sprays cleaves and splash damage to bridge the cross over...

    However that does not take into effect timing and input duration which typical TAB does not other than cool down rotations...

    For a typical TAB user myself the current direction and development of the overall combat system as well as the responses to player feedback has been generally very good...

    With usual late to the party commentators (new to forums) making snap off the cuff judgments because it does not compare to their preferred single player game....
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    dkslater_ wrote: »

    Don't ground targeted AoEs also count as skillshots?

    don't think so, AoEs I'm all in for, skill shots afaik are skills that you shoot in a straight line and you need to aim and can easily miss, and that for healers I think its really bad,
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.

    Did not say skill shots are exclusive to headshot, that was used as an example and extends to any kind of precision shots body, arm, leg, head, etc.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.

    Did not say skill shots are exclusive to headshot, that was used as an example and extends to any kind of precision shots body, arm, leg, head, etc.

    Gotcha, that's not what this request is aimed at.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.

    Did not say skill shots are exclusive to headshot, that was used as an example and extends to any kind of precision shots body, arm, leg, head, etc.

    Gotcha, that's not what this request is aimed at.

    knowing when to press your buttons, not just pressing them, makes you a good player as well.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    Depraved wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.

    Did not say skill shots are exclusive to headshot, that was used as an example and extends to any kind of precision shots body, arm, leg, head, etc.

    Gotcha, that's not what this request is aimed at.

    knowing when to press your buttons, not just pressing them, makes you a good player as well.

    Very much agree.

    Example of a game a lot of players played that can probably relate would be the Mage and Cone of Cold. A simple ability for a "skill shot" but requires timing, and positioning.

    I'm just interested in seeing more mechanics to abilities like they have done with Scatter Shot, and the additional timing of the ability to make it multi faceted.
  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vyril wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Vyril wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    People are tooo obsessed with skill shots imo and I'm super pro action combat. All there needs to be is soft lock and for the amount of soft lock to be gauged based on whatever design reasons.

    No one is looking for headshots, etc or its a very small crowd. Just needs to be so people can move in and out to dodge attacks or block vision on projectiles or use skills to avoid being hit.

    AOE ground template abilities are not soft locked, and they shouldn't be. There is no reason you can't expand it more like they have with the Ranger.

    Skills shots, also don't equal headshot type game play.

    Did not say skill shots are exclusive to headshot, that was used as an example and extends to any kind of precision shots body, arm, leg, head, etc.

    Gotcha, that's not what this request is aimed at.

    knowing when to press your buttons, not just pressing them, makes you a good player as well.

    Very much agree.

    Example of a game a lot of players played that can probably relate would be the Mage and Cone of Cold. A simple ability for a "skill shot" but requires timing, and positioning.

    I'm just interested in seeing more mechanics to abilities like they have done with Scatter Shot, and the additional timing of the ability to make it multi faceted.

    Well we are gonna get some aiming abilities, that's a good thing. Darkfall had rays and lines for healers and those dudes were cracked at healing and coordination, they had to be.

    We don't need people excuses, some more action abilities isn't going to hurt anyone.
  • edited December 2023
    I'm not against skill shots and healing abilities.

    Side note...

    ranger+cleric (soulbow) life augments could do some minor healing or minimally apply precursor status effects to target for cleric procedurals.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 2023
    I'm not against skill shots and healing abilities.

    Side note...

    ranger+cleric (soulbow) life augments could do some minor healing or minimally apply precursor status effects to target for cleric procedurals.

    Oh yeah I wasn't even thinking like that either.

    Cleric using a bow, and having actual skill shots that come from the Ranger augments.

    I can get behind some ultra ranged skill shot healing.
  • edited December 2023
    Vyril wrote: »
    I'm not against skill shots and healing abilities.

    Side note...

    ranger+cleric (soulbow) life augments could do some minor healing or minimally apply precursor status effects to target for cleric procedurals.

    Oh yeah I wasn't even thinking like that either.

    Cleric using a bow, and having actual skill shots that come from the Ranger augments.

    I can get behind some ultra ranged skill shot healing.

    :wink:

    Ranger + Cleric = soulbow. Ranger abilities with cleric augments (life and death)


    Cleric + Ranger = protector. Cleric abilities with ranger augments (hunts and marks?)

    Could definitely see some main weapon type tangible options.
  • They're leaning tab heavily. I prefer action combat much more but I don't expect them to pivot from one extreme to the other. They should go the route of League of Legends at this point. Roughly 50/50 on auto target and skill shots with a wide variety. Ground target AOEs, frontal cones, linear aoes, and projectile based skill shots. All of which have various effects, damage, healing, CCs, buffs, and debuffs.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    They're leaning tab heavily. I prefer action combat much more but I don't expect them to pivot from one extreme to the other. They should go the route of League of Legends at this point. Roughly 50/50 on auto target and skill shots with a wide variety. Ground target AOEs, frontal cones, linear aoes, and projectile based skill shots. All of which have various effects, damage, healing, CCs, buffs, and debuffs.

    I didn't want to bring up LoL specifically, but the Scatter Shot immediately made me think of LoL.

    The game can still be mostly tab, don't mind it. Just add in some spice with more Scatter Shot inspired abilities for all the classes etc.
  • edited December 2023
    The action aiming mode is essentially just soft tab targeting based on where your crosshair is/near unless you choose to hard target. World of Warcraft has the same option called Action Targeting. Saves some time but is still essentially tab targeting.

    AoC does feel more like a tab target combat game even with the "action" soft targeting regardless of these "skill" shots, being able to do abilities without a target and holding a shield especially with the RNG passive defensives in play as we saw with the tank passively blocking.

    Seems as if about every MMORPG with "tab-target" combat has action aiming/soft targeting and some action combat elements such as dodging, active blocking etc. Quite difficult to call it a unique system when most games are doing it now. Not that this is a bad thing per se, it's just been currently given too much credit for innovation in my opinion.
  • VyrilVyril Member, Alpha Two
    The action aiming mode is essentially just soft tab targeting based on where your crosshair is/near unless you choose to hard target. World of Warcraft has the same option called Action Targeting. Saves some time but is still essentially tab targeting.

    AoC does feel more like a tab target combat game even with the "action" soft targeting regardless of these "skill" shots, being able to do abilities without a target and holding a shield especially with the RNG passive defensives in play as we saw with the tank passively blocking.

    Seems as if about every MMORPG with "tab-target" combat has action aiming/soft targeting and some action combat elements such as dodging, active blocking etc. Quite difficult to call it a unique system when most games are doing it now. Not that this is a bad thing per se, it's just been currently given too much credit for innovation in my opinion.

    Skill Shots/Template AoE are not using soft-targeting. It's free aim.
  • Vyril wrote: »
    The action aiming mode is essentially just soft tab targeting based on where your crosshair is/near unless you choose to hard target. World of Warcraft has the same option called Action Targeting. Saves some time but is still essentially tab targeting.

    AoC does feel more like a tab target combat game even with the "action" soft targeting regardless of these "skill" shots, being able to do abilities without a target and holding a shield especially with the RNG passive defensives in play as we saw with the tank passively blocking.

    Seems as if about every MMORPG with "tab-target" combat has action aiming/soft targeting and some action combat elements such as dodging, active blocking etc. Quite difficult to call it a unique system when most games are doing it now. Not that this is a bad thing per se, it's just been currently given too much credit for innovation in my opinion.

    Skill Shots/Template AoE are not using soft-targeting. It's free aim.

    i know.. it goes without saying plus I did mention it in the post. Other games have them too that are "tab-target" lol.
  • @Vyril

    this "skill" shot is a direction narrowing cleave / narrowing frontal
    eagyb1yp8lrj.png


    Raining Death (i believe)

    Is a Frontal With Multi Target Tracking, aka homing missiles

    q7k685rmycjq.png

    Other than Air strike and flying around like peter pan, most of the other abilities we saw were your typical tab target which work the same with Action Targeting.

    It really comes down to how the ability is designed for class and type. Sure we can "free-aim" but it's definitely heavily favouring tab-target in ability ratio's currently. I dont really need to explain how some melee abilities/attacks are essentially aoe cleaves.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Voeltz wrote: »
    They're leaning tab heavily. I prefer action combat much more but I don't expect them to pivot from one extreme to the other. They should go the route of League of Legends at this point. Roughly 50/50 on auto target and skill shots with a wide variety. Ground target AOEs, frontal cones, linear aoes, and projectile based skill shots. All of which have various effects, damage, healing, CCs, buffs, and debuffs.

    its not really one or other its both based on what players want to do with some leaning more towards action or tab. If you use action all tab skills work based on who you are targeting. They just have not shown it as much since things are being developed.
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited December 2023
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    its not really one or other its both based on what players want to do with some leaning more towards action or tab. If you use action all tab skills work based on who you are targeting. They just have not shown it as much since things are being developed.
    IT IS one or the other. The design of the ability is what determines how it is used, not the combat mode. Both have a lock on function regardless. 3 out of the 20 or so skills that were showcased needed to be aimed, that's barely anything and obviously tab focused combat.
  • XeegXeeg Member, Alpha Two
    Liniker wrote: »
    yea... nah, big pass for me, can't think of a single MMO that had skill shot healing, not even full action games like new world, they added target locking for a reason, it sucks

    Don't the WOW Dracthyr healers have "skill shots"? At least at the same level as Scatter Shot was shown on stream.
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