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Asmongold's Video
The_Gaming_Butler
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Yesterday, Asmongold posted this video, reacting to Lazy Peon's video: 
https://youtu.be/Dh9dqPRKCd0?si=PaHGft2BAiF5_MPj
Overall, I agree with most of what Zach had to say about Ashes of creation - except for one critically important thing.
Zach puts fourth an opinion that players should be forced to play in game modes they don't want to (nor enjoy) because its better for the game when people experience all of it.
I can't say, strongly enough, how much I disagree with this sentiment. Zach is obviously entitled to his own opinions, but I felt compelled to come here and state this. (in hopes the community managers will bubble the sentiment up)
I think, at all times, the strength of Ashes will come from people being able to play however they want, and never be forced into game play they don't want to participate in.
Some people will only ever do crafting, fishing, gathering, PVP, etc. Some may only ever play the economic side of AoC, and at no point should anyone have to go do other content in order to fully enjoy the game as they see fit.
I could go on and on, but I'll just leave this statement as is; desiring only to offer a counter voice to one as prominent in the gaming community, as Asmongold's tends to be.
Thanks for reading.
-=TGB
https://youtu.be/Dh9dqPRKCd0?si=PaHGft2BAiF5_MPjOverall, I agree with most of what Zach had to say about Ashes of creation - except for one critically important thing.
Zach puts fourth an opinion that players should be forced to play in game modes they don't want to (nor enjoy) because its better for the game when people experience all of it.
I can't say, strongly enough, how much I disagree with this sentiment. Zach is obviously entitled to his own opinions, but I felt compelled to come here and state this. (in hopes the community managers will bubble the sentiment up)
I think, at all times, the strength of Ashes will come from people being able to play however they want, and never be forced into game play they don't want to participate in.
Some people will only ever do crafting, fishing, gathering, PVP, etc. Some may only ever play the economic side of AoC, and at no point should anyone have to go do other content in order to fully enjoy the game as they see fit.
I could go on and on, but I'll just leave this statement as is; desiring only to offer a counter voice to one as prominent in the gaming community, as Asmongold's tends to be.
Thanks for reading.
-=TGB
Ashes of Creation News can be found on The Gaming Butler News Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
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haha yeah thats true. though he would probably say that his intention was, similar to there being a ranger and a fighter, there is a class called Woodcutter or Leatherworker. So basically non-combatant players that can be pvped, can technically go to pve, but their entire kit revolves around their professions instead of being adventurers. I think you could add pve tools they could bring that would add to pve/pvp but thats a whole other design avenue that I dont think games are ready for just yet.
I think you're correct, and people have had fair warning.
While El Stevo has pushed the 'this game will have something for everyone' mantra (and I don't think he's wrong), the perhaps more pertinent one is that to be entirely successful, you're going to possibly be doing some stuff that's not entirely your flavour.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
Just find like minded individuals, guilds and nodes to suit your playstyle to reduce the undesirable gameplay one doesn't want to experience to a minimum.
I shouldn't need to get an Arena rank of 2000 in order to get the best fishing pole.
I shouldn't need to kill 3 specific world bosses to level up my refinement stations.
I shouldn't need to win 10 sieges to make the highest level pick axe for mining.
These are overly simplistic, extreme, examples, but they highlight the point that, if someone wants to just focus on the economy(buying and selling), manage a metropolis, build a refinement outpost on their freehold, sit in town as a Grand Master crafter, sit on the dock of the bay fishing, do nothing but PVP all day - all of these should be viable without needing to expend grand efforts in other game elements.
Again, all my opinion and desire. ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
You can choose to play the game more PvP heavy and that's up to the player, guild wars and opt-in events.
There is only 5 level 6 nodes (metro's) allowed simultaneously across the current map of Verra. How those vassals are divided can change based on where they are and the current level of other nodes nearby.
You cant siege or go to war with allied vassals in the same vassal network. This means you want to work against the other 4 networks potentially meaning you want to attack their caravans, siege their nodes, go to war with their nodes, their guilds etc.
There will probably be a lot more PvP intensity along the borders of the various metro network's depending on politics etc. until empires grow, diminish or change leaderships.
On a micro level, sure you can attack players indiscriminately in the open world, but as I said, your immoral actions could come with repercussions. I'm sure there will be some intermittent chaos over the transitional leaderships and random raiding parties lol.
A nodes reputation including yours will be very important regardless of who the parent node is.
Understood. I appreciate your perspective.
The spirit of my post had little to do with PVP. I added that comment because others were pointing out that on some level, that will be a forced participation for most players.
The spirit of the post is around a game design philosophy that Asmongold posited as "good" - referencing forced player interactions with game modes/elements that they didn't want to play. My position is the opposite; that if someone wants to log in every day and hammer away making swords, then log off - I feel thats a great way to offer a good experience to a wide array of players.
Conversely, referencing my previous examples - I'd prefer to not see people forced to (as an example) go raiding every week to get a widget thats necessary to rank up their crafting skills.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
haha, no worries. Figured I would put it out there. I've noticed a lot of people focused around the micro parts of the game vs the macro side in perspective bias.
I agree.
If you want to log on and make swords all day because that's what you want to do, then go for it. Nothing is truly forced. PvX allows you to level and play the game your way to some degree.
u can still do that. log in, hammer a few things then log off.
And sure, I can be wrong about this and this is a complete matter of nerd satisfaction for him and if Ashes ends up being being not a good game to play on stream he might just play it after he finishes his stream, but I doubt that.
I also remember him saying that players in MMOs shouldn't have agency over the gaming experience of other players in that game which sounds like it defeats the purpose of playing an MMO in the first place. And maybe he was oversimplifying what he meant or there is some context missing but this just doesn't strike me as the mindset of someone wanting to play an MMORPG where people "make" the game.
I like to watch him to get that precise opinion and see his chat's reaction to those takes. Obviously the chat is mostly on his side, cause that's how twitch works, but when he has a particularly hot take majority of chat still disagrees, so it's a nice check for the player limits.
Now he says people should be forced into playing what they dont want
I've literally never watched him and have no desire/need to. I enjoyed games long before Content Creation was a thing. They may or may not be seen as necessary and useful now, but I'm going to TRY to really exclude them from my AoC experience. Will probably cost me at some point but I love my discovery in games too much.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
Will it completely change the direction of a game? probably not, it depends on the ego behind the design. We should be fine with ashes and Steven when it comes to moving true, but they have literally premade an asmongold character in the character creator to troll him. During the latest livestream Steven was watching asmongold's stream for his and the chats reaction for feedback.
I believe Steven will be able to sort out the good and bad ideas with his team, as so far I have not really seen evidence of bad decisions.
If you build a good game, people will come. Maybe it won't be the typical dwindling MMO playerbase, but it will draw a ton of players from other genres. As Steven said, you have to take risks, and that's what it will take for MMOs to grow again.
I enjoy his videos. But I will never understand how people just eats up whatever he say like he's the spokesperson for what games should be like. But I am happy that he, along with influencers like LazyPeon is showing excitement for AoC and supports the development, because influencers thoughts on a product has great impact on sales depending on audience size. Cancel culture is still a thing.
All that said, I agree with him on this. People who are gatherers should be expected to PvE mobs around gather nodes, for example. They should also expect other people to want to gather what they gather, making PvP highly possible and even likely. You can be a crafter, but you will nonetheless be forced by the nature of the game to engage in other aspects of the game - either by doing it yourself or getting another player to do it for you (like a guard). This is a natural progression of gameplay.
What people are really thinking about with this topic is "Will I have to PvP in this MMO in which PvP is going to be a central feature?" and the answer is almost certainly going to be "Yes". How much is variable, but it's going to happen even if you try to avoid it. A big part of people's aversion to PvP is feeling the "pressure to perform" as opposed to the gameplay being in of itself unfun. The game should be designed to facilitate players overcoming that pressure, not removing the source of the pressure entirely.
Dear Asmo needs to realise - > he WANTS a Game that will finally challenge him, again.
He WANTS an MMO Game that is as tough as WoW Vanilla - AND probably or hopefully more.
He " WANTS " to play a Game, where You actually "need" to team up again with Others - instead of being able to mostly completely "SOLO" 98% to 99% of the Open World alone, aside from World Bosses who spawn once in a Week.
Ashes will be great because We are " NOT " the chosen Champion of the World anymore - like it was the Case later on in Azeroth,
because we do NOT turn the Tide of the Battle simply by arriving at the Place of peril - and probably metaphorically wipe the Asses of Faction Leaders and give them a new Set of Pants because they soiled themself because we were late.
We will only be ONE Person of many. And only our Team-Work together with Others, will make a Difference.
United we stand. Divided we fall. And it will not matter at all, if One Player is the overwhelmingly strongest single Player by far 1-v-1 compared to Everyone else. No single Person alone will create and rise a Node, build it out to a Metropolis,
AND defend it against Enemy Raid Parties alone who want to take the Node down and build their own in the same Place.
I can safely prophesy Everyone, that the " MOST social Guilds " - will not unlikely rule the biggest and most powerful Cities on the Servers.
Change my Mind if you can. (lol)
In other words, Ashes is Batman.
For example in the last stream for the December dev update, he stated he liked seeing the health loss when the archer was hitting his target...Which was just a demonstration aspect of the stream. I don't believe they pivoted direction on not seeing players hp bars that are not part of your party/raid/guild/alliance, if they did, they would of probably brought it up.
He stated on stream he hopes there will be jump puzzles, which we already have known for a long while there will be. Which can also easily be found on the wiki.
His previous takes in his older streams regarding raid bosses, instances, world first, raid loot being top tier, etc. and so on shows he didn't really read the wiki or any available info at all. Just compare it to his experiences in WoW. His pov has probably evolved from this by now, hopefully, but doesn't look like it has to a large extent as he simply doesn't keep up with the game at all. Only hopping on for reaction content and checking in rarely.
My biggest worry is how he's introducing AoC to his audience. I can say right now that the WoW community will be in for the biggest shock when they get in game and see how it will actually play out. Considering the lack of a facts wall when he just throws words out, and his chat shows they don't have a clear understanding. I just wish he put more time into actually reading up and absorbing the info that is readily available to have a better grasp and be a better spokesperson. The scope and scale of what Ashes is trying to achieve is massive, and a complete different direction than what WoW offers and other instanced themepark mmo's.
I believe only Lineage 2 and Archeage players have a real understanding of how the gameplay will roll out in Ashes. Specifically more so Lineage 2, as we've already experienced the flagging, Karma (Corruption system), guilds/alliance contested content, etc. For those that state we don't know how the system will play out, I'm sorry to say that is false...As the flagging and corruption system is literally IDENTICAL to Lineage 2. With thankfully fixes too alleviate some of the loopholes and exploits that were in place in L2. No other game has come close to what those two facilitated in the PvX regard. Nothing as memorable as three massive alliances of 100+ each awaiting for a world boss spawn, and commence to slaughter each other once it rises. Followed up with resurrecting allies, defending the funnel point to said boss, and split between defending and spanking for the rare loots. With many guild wars, KoS lists, and contested pvp after....Good times ^_^.
Regardless though, Asmon does formulate good takes, while others are off base, on a multitude of different topics. Nothing wrong with having opinions, that's a good thing, being opinionated would be the issue, which he has shown he is not of the latter as his thoughts on subjects evolve. Enjoy his content when I do check in, but just wish he'd spend some more time learning about AoC, as not providing proper info and context could have a negative result from his massive following in the future when they finally get in game, only to realize there will be no raid nights, and AoC will most likely not be their cup of tea.
I don't have a strong stance on this, but I'm leaning towards freedom to be a crafter without having to PVP. I do think you are right in people being worried about PvP but that's not what this is about for me nor was the OP's intention (I think).
If you want to be a crafter maybe you don't necessarily need to be a gatherer but can buy materials from people who do go out and pvp or pve to get the mats.
So what exactly is better for the game and why? If a person is forced to e.g. PVP to craft something or maybe kill a world boss that they don't want to, is it more or less likely this person will continue playing the game?
As oppose to staying in a town and just crafting without the penalty of not being able to craft something (maybe small exceptions aside).
Mind you, the same goes vice versa. I'd probably end up only PvPing, so am I going to have to kill a world boss or raid a dungeon to get something so I can stay on par in PvP or can I just go and PvP without that penalty...
I think what you're saying should, in theory, be possible. But think about this from stage one. If someone is going to stay in town and just play the economy game - how are they going to get their seed money? Where are they going to sell their goods if it's not profitable to do so where they are? If they want to make something but there's no crafting station available where they are, they'll have to travel, right?
Once you answer these questions then what follows is logical. To get money to buy goods to begin with they will need to do at least PvE content. I don't think anyone will really have a problem with that - I don't know any game that lets you get straight into crafting without doing the leg work first.
But the other two questions land us in the controversial reality - if you have to travel somewhere out in the world you are possibly going to have to deal with other people, and that means you're going to have to possibly deal with PvP. Sure, you're not going to have to anoint the sword you craft in the blood of another player in order for the weapon to be complete, but the odds of you avoiding other facets of this game I believe are close to zero, even if it's not directly involved in the gameplay loop you're pursuing, because parts of that gameplay loop are inevitably going to put you in the path of other people. And in a game where PvP is a central aspect, putting you in the path of other people puts you in the path of fighting other people.
I'm not blind to the downsides to this - I played enough ArcheAge to know where this can go bad from a player experience standpoint. But on the whole I think it's better that people accept this than wish for something that ultimately breaks the economy of the game. You can see the other side of this with New World, where bots and other players camped resource nodes 24/7 and there would be nothing you can do about it except try and harvest things on a timer because you can't kill anyone and they can't kill you. Less of an issue with the act of crafting, but crafting itself is inseparable from the gathering system, and the gathering system is inseparable from the open world, and the open world is inseparable from PvE and PvP. You yourself may not have to do PvP or PvE in order to do your crafting, but somebody will. And as long as that's the case, the game should continue to work smoothly.
My dude if you think he actually lives in that house instead of using it as a set, I have a bridge to sell you lol
Yeah, I see what you are saying but you're still focusing on the PvP. Being forced into all aspects of the game is what is being questioned. Such as having to kill a world boss for an item so that you can craft, when all you want to do is craft.
But to take a step back, How are they going to get seed money? So we have to start somewhere and this hypothetical agoraphobic crafter has to go outside to gather some wood and iron. Is pvp everywhere? I was under the impression there will be safe zones. Alternatively the crafter can have someone bring him mats for the crafts and some fee. They can then start buying mats, and hire people to sell them in other areas (i've no idea how economy is supposed to work in this game). This sounds like a silly example and all, but I betcha someone would get a kick out of RPing a pacifist agoraphobic crafter ^^
I do think that you shouldn't be forced to kill a world boss yourself if you are not into that, so that's a more straightforward example; would you make special bop mats or anything can be sold?
P.S. I'm pretty sure he lives in that house ;p
Like I said in another comment, he's a casual wow-rotted player who wants the most convenient game ever w/ no friction.
Damn, that is some capitalism-rotten brain you have. Not everyone cares to live in a mansion if they have the money for one. You distrust and paranoia about "everyone's lying" is taking you to far.