I think those "wants" should've been "needs". Cause even if he did realize that those are all good things - he still wouldn't want them. But he does need them to fully understand that they're good.
In other words, Ashes is Batman.
This is the funny Contradiction regarding our dear Asmo.
Whenever he wants, he is immediately capable of critical thinking regarding what a VideoGame should have or might need.
But then right away - like in the next Seconds or Moments - he is falling back into Habbits without realising, that it are these bad Habbits that made for Example WoW worse and worse over the Years.
A VideoGame gets not better by becoming "easier and easier" over the Years.
Balance between Classes do "not" get better by all Classes become more and more similar to each other - with every single Class having at least One or Two Self-heal Abilities, Abilities to try to get away - or lots of Stunlock Abilities.
The " Rock-Paper-Scissors " -Principle of WoW Vanilla was very good. Everyone knew who he or she has an Advantage against, with the own Class - and against who oneself was at a Disadvantage.
It forced People to think. Maybe learn Engineer as a Profession so that one can have Reflectors, or a Death-Ray, or a Hat that let You control an Enemy Player for Fifteen to Twenty Seconds in Case the RNG-Throw for mental Control was better than your Enemies.
This Element of Uncertainty and Surprise every time was also what made WoW Vanilla so much Fun compared to how World of Warcraft was later on, in the Day.
Let Ashes of Creation have this Element of Surprise regularly and/or from time to time - and PvP in it will be definitely better than what we see from WoW since Years.
ESPECIALLY because there are not +3 up to +5 Addons involved, which completely take the Need to think away from the Players involved.
3
Options
leameseMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
He doesn't know what he wants. Literally a few minutes before he says that he also says "people should be able to just be crafters in the game". Always take his takes with 3.5 bags of salt.
noticed that as well. It might even be intentional. if you take any standpoint, that way he is able to relate to everyone.
I don't have a strong stance on this, but I'm leaning towards freedom to be a crafter without having to PVP. I do think you are right in people being worried about PvP but that's not what this is about for me nor was the OP's intention (I think).
If you want to be a crafter maybe you don't necessarily need to be a gatherer but can buy materials from people who do go out and pvp or pve to get the mats.
So what exactly is better for the game and why? If a person is forced to e.g. PVP to craft something or maybe kill a world boss that they don't want to, is it more or less likely this person will continue playing the game?
As oppose to staying in a town and just crafting without the penalty of not being able to craft something (maybe small exceptions aside).
Mind you, the same goes vice versa. I'd probably end up only PvPing, so am I going to have to kill a world boss or raid a dungeon to get something so I can stay on par in PvP or can I just go and PvP without that penalty...
I think what you're saying should, in theory, be possible. But think about this from stage one. If someone is going to stay in town and just play the economy game - how are they going to get their seed money? Where are they going to sell their goods if it's not profitable to do so where they are? If they want to make something but there's no crafting station available where they are, they'll have to travel, right?
Once you answer these questions then what follows is logical. To get money to buy goods to begin with they will need to do at least PvE content. I don't think anyone will really have a problem with that - I don't know any game that lets you get straight into crafting without doing the leg work first.
But the other two questions land us in the controversial reality - if you have to travel somewhere out in the world you are possibly going to have to deal with other people, and that means you're going to have to possibly deal with PvP. Sure, you're not going to have to anoint the sword you craft in the blood of another player in order for the weapon to be complete, but the odds of you avoiding other facets of this game I believe are close to zero, even if it's not directly involved in the gameplay loop you're pursuing, because parts of that gameplay loop are inevitably going to put you in the path of other people. And in a game where PvP is a central aspect, putting you in the path of other people puts you in the path of fighting other people.
I'm not blind to the downsides to this - I played enough ArcheAge to know where this can go bad from a player experience standpoint. But on the whole I think it's better that people accept this than wish for something that ultimately breaks the economy of the game. You can see the other side of this with New World, where bots and other players camped resource nodes 24/7 and there would be nothing you can do about it except try and harvest things on a timer because you can't kill anyone and they can't kill you. Less of an issue with the act of crafting, but crafting itself is inseparable from the gathering system, and the gathering system is inseparable from the open world, and the open world is inseparable from PvE and PvP. You yourself may not have to do PvP or PvE in order to do your crafting, but somebody will. And as long as that's the case, the game should continue to work smoothly.
Anyone who has seen his house and take what is says seriously is a issue lmao. He has good and bad takes and you should go by your own thought process. Granted part of it is the whole culture thing and memes I don't think anyone is really preaching what he says. The chat just enjoys spamming the memes.
My dude if you think he actually lives in that house instead of using it as a set, I have a bridge to sell you lol
That isn't a set im sorry to tell you. He has a deep attachment to his mother, I don't think he will ever leave there until he fixes his own headspace problem.
Its been a real pleasure reading through this thread and seeing all of your thoughts. Some really well thought out opinions.
Just to restate clearly, my intention for this post. I often agree with much of Asmongold's opinions - but certainly not all.
I also know that Steven watches his videos.
Given that the world we now live in, is one in which YouTubers / Content creators are seen (in some ways) as champions of the people - a single voice for the many - I wanted to come here and call specific attention to this one opinion that Zach has - in which I vehemently disagree with.
Intrepid are always (thankfully) asking for feedback, and this was something important enough to me that I wanted to post my own personal opinion about that very myopic issue.
I agree that its likely healthy for a game, community, and individual gamers to be incentivized to go out there and experience the full game. Incentivize and force are two very different things to me. My opinion is heavily rooted in no one being forced to play in content they don't want to.
I've been a WoW player for all 19+ years its been around. I have been forced to do things I didn't want to do; such as:
-dailies
-grind certain faction rep
-participate in rated PVP (yes I know AoC is a PVP game, but I don't enjoy WoW PVP)
-specific timed events
-needless unlocks (I remember you, pathfinder achievement to unlock flying)
and the list goes on and on.
The spirt of this post, without desiring to get into the weeds, and be extremely granular - was to convey to the Intrepid team, that I am one player who desperately wants to play how I want to play, and not be forced to do content I don't want to do. This is not specifically about crafting, PVP, or anything else - its a very broad brush stroke - on purpose.
I don't get the sense that Ashes will have forced content (other than the very obvious standard things) - so I'm not particularly worried about it.
That said, I just wanted to affirm my stance.
Again, really appreciated reading all these responses. Thank you for participating in this discussion!
A comment on the real influence of Asmon from another YTer. Asmon has a much bigger reach/influence than some might assume. He has a big enough audience of true followers (that do whatever he does) that it starts a snowball, due to how algorithms on social media work.
netrimosMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I like watching his take on Ashes.He does a great job of echoing the average sentiment of a displaced WoW gamer. I don't really see any of his opinions about ashes as broadly controversial, because every complaint I've heard from him about the game I've already seen on the forums or reddit multiple times. The real issue is that most people who are bored or over WoW are constantly looking at every upcoming MMO as a candidate to fill that void for them, but MMO is too broad of a category and most of them end up with dealbreakers or huge flaws. Ashes has a pretty niche vision, but visually has mass mmo market appeal. People see the flashy graphics and beautiful world and they start projecting their favorite MMO systems and activities into that world. They hear inventory management as a feature and they go soft, because thats not something they associate with fun in MMOs. Having played Archeage in the past, I know how much fun I've had with gameplay that is enabled from inventory management (trade routes, plot management, etc).
At the end of the day, people are always going to advocate for their ideal version of the game, even if that ideal version isn't in line with the developers vision. It's up to the team to resist capitulation on anything that would compromise their vision. Their record on this is really good so far, so i'm not too worried about it right now.
I've been a WoW player for all 19+ years its been around. I have been forced to do things I didn't want to do; such as:
-dailies
Worth noting that it was community/player feedback that changed El Stevo's mind about dailies, not a CC.
I'm positive I'm in the minority but I hope IS don't spend too many manhours on their CC program. Let them stand or fall on their own merit. I'd also have some concern about conflict of interest if I intended to spend much time watching them. But walkthroughs/short cuts and too much advice from outside sources tends to wear down my immersion in a game, so I won't be.
The girl watched the last of the creatures die and murmured a soft 'Thank you' to her rescuer.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
The only thing he has is a following. I hope all the best for him but he is a moron. He makes videos looking for veiw over really knowing what he is asking for. The last thing Ashes staff needs to do is take anything he requests as something this games needs to change because of his requests. He has no clue what Ashes key systems how they work together and what kind of player this game is trying to target. Please Intrepid, disregard any feedback he gives.
The only thing he has is a following. I hope all the best for him but he is a moron. He makes videos looking for veiw over really knowing what he is asking for. The last thing Ashes staff needs to do is take anything he requests as something this games needs to change because of his requests. He has no clue what Ashes key systems how they work together and what kind of player this game is trying to target. Please Intrepid, disregard any feedback he gives.
Sometimes his takes are ok and sometimes his takes are one of the worst possible. Like this idea of having a million people on one mega server.
Like this idea of having a million people on one mega server.
Yeah, I still don't get what's the difference between having 10k people, of whom you might meet ~1k in the years of playing the game, and 1mil people, of whom you might meet the same fucking 1k.
He also hates player friction, so obviously all those 1mil people would have to have their own rewards in their own little instanced dungeons, which means that everyone just sits in towns (or right at the dungeon entrance). And no game can support even just a few thousand people in one place (w/o EVE's dilation), so you'll have to have channels or a similar system AT WHICH POINT YOU HAVE FUCKING SERVERS
Its the dumbest take out of all of his imo (same with all the other people who argue for channels instead of servers).
The only thing he has is a following. I hope all the best for him but he is a moron. He makes videos looking for veiw over really knowing what he is asking for. The last thing Ashes staff needs to do is take anything he requests as something this games needs to change because of his requests. He has no clue what Ashes key systems how they work together and what kind of player this game is trying to target. Please Intrepid, disregard any feedback he gives.
Sometimes his takes are ok and sometimes his takes are one of the worst possible. Like this idea of having a million people on one mega server.
I also loved his dumb Idea of a PvE server. Every system in this game is tied into PvP. Watching a few videos can quickly teach you how this game is designed and what market it's designed for.
He also hates player friction, so obviously all those 1mil people would have to have their own rewards in their own little instanced dungeons, which means that everyone just sits in towns (or right at the dungeon entrance).
This! tbh as much as I love Asmon's content in general, guy is really charismatic and fun to watch, I am convinced that he as a player is the opposite of the target audience Intrepid is going for, and he just won't have fun in the game,
he hates player friction, open world pvp and pvp in general, not everyone getting their own rewards, competition for resources, he thinks dungeons that are not instanced sucks, and many many more features that are core to AoC, and the bad thing is, his viewers parrot whatever he says to a concerning degree, to this day the "game looking generic and no art style because its not stilized like WoW" is something that came from an Asmon opinion, imagine when we get to testing actual systems that the WoW/FF14 players hate...
I believe there will be a lot of loud negativity from those players and I hope Intrepid and @StevenSharif is ready for it, thats the downside of a game that is made for a specific target audience getting the spotlights of a large portion of the community, hope they know how to handle it and don't bend, moving away from their vision to cater to the loud voices,
He also hates player friction, so obviously all those 1mil people would have to have their own rewards in their own little instanced dungeons, which means that everyone just sits in towns (or right at the dungeon entrance).
This! tbh as much as I love Asmon's content in general, guy is really charismatic and fun to watch, I am convinced that he as a player is the opposite of the target audience Intrepid is going for, and he just won't have fun in the game,
he hates player friction, open world pvp and pvp in general, not everyone getting their own rewards, competition for resources, he thinks dungeons that are not instanced sucks, and many many more features that are core to AoC, and the bad thing is, his viewers parrot whatever he says to a concerning degree, to this day the "game looking generic and no art style because its not stilized like WoW" is something that came from an Asmon opinion, imagine when we get to testing actual systems that the WoW/FF14 players hate...
I believe there will be a lot of loud negativity from those players and I hope Intrepid and @StevenSharif is ready for it, thats the downside of a game that is made for a specific target audience getting the spotlights of a large portion of the community, hope they know how to handle it and don't bend, moving away from their vision to cater to the loud voices,
i dont really watch him, but one of the few times ive seen him, he said what he likes is being able to fight people in the open and steamroll them. just outgear them and completely dumpster them lol so i guess he likes open world pvp
i dont really watch him, but one of the few times ive seen him, he said what he likes is being able to fight people in the open and steamroll them. just outgear them and completely dumpster them lol so i guess he likes open world pvp
Nah, he likes to do that because he's a gremlin and he knows it. But he doesn't consider that a good design exactly because he knows that there's gonna be gremlins like him that will "ruin" other people's experience.
He makes me want to watch the videos with him, just so I explain to him how he's wrong or misinformed.
Has some decent takes on a things, but he's so disconnected from real MMOs, and doesn't really know the details of Ashes design. So he makes "suggestions" that do not fit Ashes systems.
I also loved his dumb Idea of a PvE server. Every system in this game is tied into PvP. Watching a few videos can quickly teach you how this game is designed and what market it's designed for.
I still smell and perceive a Chance here.
Who else is playing with the Idea, of becoming a little bit of an ingame-Service working as Escorts, Bodyguards, etc. ??
For Players who may - or may not - find themselves being targeted by ((( (( (certain other Players) )) ))) who like to pick on certain Noobies, or generally People who may not have great Skills in PvP,
and who " WILL " without fail sooner or later, become a Case for the Bountyhunter-Mechanic anyway.
Just me ?
It's not like we need to demand for Example "Prices" (ingame Money/Stuff) from the People we protect. The Fact alone that we might make new Friends and Allies by being the " overly protective (lol), friendly Neighbourhood Highwaymen " , ( Sorry Spidey, lol ),
that Thought is kinda appealing to me.
Some People want to be complete Dicks towards Others ? Fine by me,
but " CAN " these People be Dicks towards other Players, in a way that i might profit from it ?
One Man's Peril is another Man's Opportunity. I am 100% confident we will have these Cases with Caravans anyway and (((SOMEOME))) will need to protect them if you catch my drift,
but if People drive other Players to me - LITERALLY - so that these other Players might end up being thankful if i try to help them against the PK'ers to the best of my Ability, oh i am SO gotta take it. .
I also loved his dumb Idea of a PvE server. Every system in this game is tied into PvP. Watching a few videos can quickly teach you how this game is designed and what market it's designed for.
I still smell and perceive a Chance here.
Who else is playing with the Idea, of becoming a little bit of an ingame-Service working as Escorts, Bodyguards, etc. ??
For Players who may - or may not - find themselves being targeted by ((( (( (certain other Players) )) ))) who like to pick on certain Noobies, or generally People who may not have great Skills in PvP,
and who " WILL " without fail sooner or later, become a Case for the Bountyhunter-Mechanic anyway.
Just me ?
It's not like we need to demand for Example "Prices" (ingame Money/Stuff) from the People we protect. The Fact alone that we might make new Friends and Allies by being the " overly protective (lol), friendly Neighbourhood Highwaymen " , ( Sorry Spidey, lol ),
that Thought is kinda appealing to me.
Some People want to be complete Dicks towards Others ? Fine by me,
but " CAN " these People be Dicks towards other Players, in a way that i might profit from it ?
One Man's Peril is another Man's Opportunity. I am 100% confident we will have these Cases with Caravans anyway and (((SOMEOME))) will need to protect them if you catch my drift,
but if People drive other Players to me - LITERALLY - so that these other Players might end up being thankful if i try to help them against the PK'ers to the best of my Ability, oh i am SO gotta take it. .
If PvP is not your thing, this will not be the game to buy. It's not just a PvP game, it's PvX, meaning all PvE content has the chance that PvP will happen and you will be rewarded when you win the encounters. This will be everything from world bosses, dungeons and even foraging for crafting goods. I personally love being on the edge of always at any moment I could get attacked.
If PvP is not your thing, this will not be the game to buy.
And this is exactly what People must get into their Head. It will be realistic. In Reallife, People can also attack each other whenever they want. There is no invisible mechanic like being in the same Faction like in World of Warcraft.
I am relieved that Ashes will not be so much of a "Safe-Zone" like for Example most of the Content and World/s of WoW are.
Meaning - > being social - > being able to make Friends or at least Allies - > will be more valuable than in WoW, right ?
Right ?
I think i am not wrong when i write it like this.
It is sad that in WoW, so many People - ALL INSIDE the SAME Faction - became absolute Douchebags and Jerks towards other Members of the same Faction all those Years,
because they were always convinced it is of no negative Consequence towards them. I think this is why Blizzard even changed their Policies somewhat later on, so that People are exhorted not to be rude, offensive and insulting towards each other.
And since awhile, it is even addressed "not to SABOTAGE" the own Faction in Battlegrounds ... ... 😆 . 😅
Why is that, i wonder ?
WHY is that that some People have such an unbelievably hard time being respectful and social towards their fellow Videogamers ? 😅
I mean, in Ashes - there won't even be Factions like Alliance and Horde.
But why do i have the Feeling, People might act smarter and more careful than when they were in the actual same Faction as in WoW ?
Imagine Two different Nodes being at Odd's with each other.
I don't think when they go to War - and are about anywhere near same as strong - > that One of them will be able to afford pissing off the own Players. The Moment they leave, everything can collapse. 😁 . 😈
If PvP is not your thing, this will not be the game to buy.
And this is exactly what People must get into their Head. It will be realistic. In Reallife, People can also attack each other whenever they want. There is no invisible mechanic like being in the same Faction like in World of Warcraft.
I am relieved that Ashes will not be so much of a "Safe-Zone" like for Example most of the Content and World/s of WoW are.
Meaning - > being social - > being able to make Friends or at least Allies - > will be more valuable than in WoW, right ?
Right ?
I think i am not wrong when i write it like this.
It is sad that in WoW, so many People - ALL INSIDE the SAME Faction - became absolute Douchebags and Jerks towards other Members of the same Faction all those Years,
because they were always convinced it is of no negative Consequence towards them. I think this is why Blizzard even changed their Policies somewhat later on, so that People are exhorted not to be rude, offensive and insulting towards each other.
And since awhile, it is even addressed "not to SABOTAGE" the own Faction in Battlegrounds ... ... 😆 . 😅
Why is that, i wonder ?
WHY is that that some People have such an unbelievably hard time being respectful and social towards their fellow Videogamers ? 😅
I mean, in Ashes - there won't even be Factions like Alliance and Horde.
But why do i have the Feeling, People might act smarter and more careful than when they were in the actual same Faction as in WoW ?
Imagine Two different Nodes being at Odd's with each other.
I don't think when they go to War - and are about anywhere near same as strong - > that One of them will be able to afford pissing off the own Players. The Moment they leave, everything can collapse. 😁 . 😈
8-/ think you should look up node progression. You want to get your node to the next level, you need to attack and delevel the nodes around you.
This game will have just as many jerks as WoW. Anything online that let's you hide who you are in real life, let's people do what they want with no consequence. In Ashes just because someone is a jerks the flagging system will still protect them on some level. You want to earn corruption, then sure get your revenge. It's just gonna cost you.
While in WoW, People were only Jerks for the sole purpose and sake of it. " Enough " that Blizzard pulled the Brakes and put it even into the Policies that People remember their Place and be not unnecessarily douchy while there is absolutely no need to.
Levelling up the own Node intead, IS a reason to be douchy and hostile towards other Nodes and their Players.
Anything online that let's you hide who you are in real life, let's people do what they want with no consequence.
Not true.
I have already witnessed that People "got banned" from WoW which i more or less knew as Acquaintances, because they didn't stop treating other Players like Garbage.
It hit especially a few Folks who always did Dungeon Runs - and then "KICKED" one or two Players from their Groups to replace them with Guild-Members or Friends from their Friendlist,
to give those the Reward of defeating the last Boss in a Dungeon, which it was for Example a Dungeon-World(?) Quest one can make every few Days.
They wrote about it in Discord. Some even them got banned for several Months. And this was ONLY as a Warning. x'D
Funny Story. Even if a scary one. Now the Question i ask myself is -> how many Times did something like this have to happen,
until Blizzard finally decided to intervene because of probably endless Complains about this douchy Behaviour ?
What is the outrageous part in this - is -> it wasn't between the two officially hostile Factions.
It was always between Alliance-only or Horde-only Players. So in other Words -> absolutely unnecessary, douchy Behaviour. x')
Asmongold is a bit of a weather vane - he has his views but they change with the wind. But regardless of how they change, they're not radically out of step with a significant minority or even majority of MMO players so they should be taken seriously.
All that said, I agree with him on this. People who are gatherers should be expected to PvE mobs around gather nodes, for example. They should also expect other people to want to gather what they gather, making PvP highly possible and even likely. You can be a crafter, but you will nonetheless be forced by the nature of the game to engage in other aspects of the game - either by doing it yourself or getting another player to do it for you (like a guard). This is a natural progression of gameplay.
What people are really thinking about with this topic is "Will I have to PvP in this MMO in which PvP is going to be a central feature?" and the answer is almost certainly going to be "Yes". How much is variable, but it's going to happen even if you try to avoid it. A big part of people's aversion to PvP is feeling the "pressure to perform" as opposed to the gameplay being in of itself unfun. The game should be designed to facilitate players overcoming that pressure, not removing the source of the pressure entirely.
Exactly. Intrepid has to fight against the non-fun components of PvP and that's what they an great emphasis on as we heard on multiple occasions from Steven.
He certainly goes back and forth on many of his views. 3 months from now he may state the complete opposite.
I do hope that developers come to realize everyone has different tastes in what they want from a game. And you as the developer will NEVER be able to provide what everyone wants or expects. Even if you want to!
Intrepid needs to form their vision and stick with it. The players that enjoy the game will enter and stay. Those that do not like Ashes will move on to another game. The issue many games are having right now is that they are trying to cater to everyone..... all the time..... resulting in so many games feeling the same. Even if they are not the same game, they feel to similar... so why stay?
He certainly goes back and forth on many of his views. 3 months from now he may state the complete opposite.
I do hope that developers come to realize everyone has different tastes in what they want from a game. And you as the developer will NEVER be able to provide what everyone wants or expects. Even if you want to!
Intrepid needs to form their vision and stick with it. The players that enjoy the game will enter and stay. Those that do not like Ashes will move on to another game. The issue many games are having right now is that they are trying to cater to everyone..... all the time..... resulting in so many games feeling the same. Even if they are not the same game, they feel to similar... so why stay?
Yeah, a lot of content creators go back and forth on opinions as it creates content, views and revenue. It's good to hear many perspectives from different sources.
Those creators essentially control a large demographic for sales through opinion seeking viewers as a following for advertising which many of them make more revenue through via sponsorships. Intrepid unfortunately over listens in my opinion. They're back and forth on their design as well. I get they want to make the "best" version of their game but they're doing what blizzard did/does catering to the masses to accommodate retention goals.
It's a sad genre that keep falling into the same feature loop.
Comments
This is the funny Contradiction regarding our dear Asmo.
Whenever he wants, he is immediately capable of critical thinking regarding what a VideoGame should have or might need.
But then right away - like in the next Seconds or Moments - he is falling back into Habbits without realising, that it are these bad Habbits that made for Example WoW worse and worse over the Years.
A VideoGame gets not better by becoming "easier and easier" over the Years.
Balance between Classes do "not" get better by all Classes become more and more similar to each other - with every single Class having at least One or Two Self-heal Abilities, Abilities to try to get away - or lots of Stunlock Abilities.
The " Rock-Paper-Scissors " -Principle of WoW Vanilla was very good. Everyone knew who he or she has an Advantage against, with the own Class - and against who oneself was at a Disadvantage.
It forced People to think. Maybe learn Engineer as a Profession so that one can have Reflectors, or a Death-Ray, or a Hat that let You control an Enemy Player for Fifteen to Twenty Seconds in Case the RNG-Throw for mental Control was better than your Enemies.
This Element of Uncertainty and Surprise every time was also what made WoW Vanilla so much Fun compared to how World of Warcraft was later on, in the Day.
Let Ashes of Creation have this Element of Surprise regularly and/or from time to time - and PvP in it will be definitely better than what we see from WoW since Years.
ESPECIALLY because there are not +3 up to +5 Addons involved, which completely take the Need to think away from the Players involved.
noticed that as well. It might even be intentional. if you take any standpoint, that way he is able to relate to everyone.
That isn't a set im sorry to tell you. He has a deep attachment to his mother, I don't think he will ever leave there until he fixes his own headspace problem.
Just to restate clearly, my intention for this post. I often agree with much of Asmongold's opinions - but certainly not all.
I also know that Steven watches his videos.
Given that the world we now live in, is one in which YouTubers / Content creators are seen (in some ways) as champions of the people - a single voice for the many - I wanted to come here and call specific attention to this one opinion that Zach has - in which I vehemently disagree with.
Intrepid are always (thankfully) asking for feedback, and this was something important enough to me that I wanted to post my own personal opinion about that very myopic issue.
I agree that its likely healthy for a game, community, and individual gamers to be incentivized to go out there and experience the full game. Incentivize and force are two very different things to me. My opinion is heavily rooted in no one being forced to play in content they don't want to.
I've been a WoW player for all 19+ years its been around. I have been forced to do things I didn't want to do; such as:
-dailies
-grind certain faction rep
-participate in rated PVP (yes I know AoC is a PVP game, but I don't enjoy WoW PVP)
-specific timed events
-needless unlocks (I remember you, pathfinder achievement to unlock flying)
and the list goes on and on.
The spirt of this post, without desiring to get into the weeds, and be extremely granular - was to convey to the Intrepid team, that I am one player who desperately wants to play how I want to play, and not be forced to do content I don't want to do. This is not specifically about crafting, PVP, or anything else - its a very broad brush stroke - on purpose.
I don't get the sense that Ashes will have forced content (other than the very obvious standard things) - so I'm not particularly worried about it.
That said, I just wanted to affirm my stance.
Again, really appreciated reading all these responses. Thank you for participating in this discussion!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP31ixSBO7GHKLBefWVcJaA
At the end of the day, people are always going to advocate for their ideal version of the game, even if that ideal version isn't in line with the developers vision. It's up to the team to resist capitulation on anything that would compromise their vision. Their record on this is really good so far, so i'm not too worried about it right now.
Worth noting that it was community/player feedback that changed El Stevo's mind about dailies, not a CC.
I'm positive I'm in the minority but I hope IS don't spend too many manhours on their CC program. Let them stand or fall on their own merit. I'd also have some concern about conflict of interest if I intended to spend much time watching them. But walkthroughs/short cuts and too much advice from outside sources tends to wear down my immersion in a game, so I won't be.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
Sometimes his takes are ok and sometimes his takes are one of the worst possible. Like this idea of having a million people on one mega server.
He also hates player friction, so obviously all those 1mil people would have to have their own rewards in their own little instanced dungeons, which means that everyone just sits in towns (or right at the dungeon entrance). And no game can support even just a few thousand people in one place (w/o EVE's dilation), so you'll have to have channels or a similar system AT WHICH POINT YOU HAVE FUCKING SERVERS
Its the dumbest take out of all of his imo (same with all the other people who argue for channels instead of servers).
I also loved his dumb Idea of a PvE server. Every system in this game is tied into PvP. Watching a few videos can quickly teach you how this game is designed and what market it's designed for.
This! tbh as much as I love Asmon's content in general, guy is really charismatic and fun to watch, I am convinced that he as a player is the opposite of the target audience Intrepid is going for, and he just won't have fun in the game,
he hates player friction, open world pvp and pvp in general, not everyone getting their own rewards, competition for resources, he thinks dungeons that are not instanced sucks, and many many more features that are core to AoC, and the bad thing is, his viewers parrot whatever he says to a concerning degree, to this day the "game looking generic and no art style because its not stilized like WoW" is something that came from an Asmon opinion, imagine when we get to testing actual systems that the WoW/FF14 players hate...
I believe there will be a lot of loud negativity from those players and I hope Intrepid and @StevenSharif is ready for it, thats the downside of a game that is made for a specific target audience getting the spotlights of a large portion of the community, hope they know how to handle it and don't bend, moving away from their vision to cater to the loud voices,
i dont really watch him, but one of the few times ive seen him, he said what he likes is being able to fight people in the open and steamroll them. just outgear them and completely dumpster them lol so i guess he likes open world pvp
Has some decent takes on a things, but he's so disconnected from real MMOs, and doesn't really know the details of Ashes design. So he makes "suggestions" that do not fit Ashes systems.
I still smell and perceive a Chance here.
Who else is playing with the Idea, of becoming a little bit of an ingame-Service working as Escorts, Bodyguards, etc. ??
For Players who may - or may not - find themselves being targeted by ((( (( (certain other Players) )) ))) who like to pick on certain Noobies, or generally People who may not have great Skills in PvP,
and who " WILL " without fail sooner or later, become a Case for the Bountyhunter-Mechanic anyway.
Just me ?
It's not like we need to demand for Example "Prices" (ingame Money/Stuff) from the People we protect. The Fact alone that we might make new Friends and Allies by being the " overly protective (lol), friendly Neighbourhood Highwaymen " , ( Sorry Spidey, lol ),
that Thought is kinda appealing to me.
Some People want to be complete Dicks towards Others ? Fine by me,
but " CAN " these People be Dicks towards other Players, in a way that i might profit from it ?
One Man's Peril is another Man's Opportunity. I am 100% confident we will have these Cases with Caravans anyway and (((SOMEOME))) will need to protect them if you catch my drift,
but if People drive other Players to me - LITERALLY - so that these other Players might end up being thankful if i try to help them against the PK'ers to the best of my Ability, oh i am SO gotta take it.
If PvP is not your thing, this will not be the game to buy. It's not just a PvP game, it's PvX, meaning all PvE content has the chance that PvP will happen and you will be rewarded when you win the encounters. This will be everything from world bosses, dungeons and even foraging for crafting goods. I personally love being on the edge of always at any moment I could get attacked.
Then being Protectors of a Caravan is ERP, or how am i to understand this ?
And this is exactly what People must get into their Head. It will be realistic. In Reallife, People can also attack each other whenever they want. There is no invisible mechanic like being in the same Faction like in World of Warcraft.
I am relieved that Ashes will not be so much of a "Safe-Zone" like for Example most of the Content and World/s of WoW are.
Meaning - > being social - > being able to make Friends or at least Allies - > will be more valuable than in WoW, right ?
Right ?
I think i am not wrong when i write it like this.
It is sad that in WoW, so many People - ALL INSIDE the SAME Faction - became absolute Douchebags and Jerks towards other Members of the same Faction all those Years,
because they were always convinced it is of no negative Consequence towards them. I think this is why Blizzard even changed their Policies somewhat later on, so that People are exhorted not to be rude, offensive and insulting towards each other.
And since awhile, it is even addressed "not to SABOTAGE" the own Faction in Battlegrounds ... ... 😆 . 😅
Why is that, i wonder ?
WHY is that that some People have such an unbelievably hard time being respectful and social towards their fellow Videogamers ? 😅
I mean, in Ashes - there won't even be Factions like Alliance and Horde.
But why do i have the Feeling, People might act smarter and more careful than when they were in the actual same Faction as in WoW ?
Imagine Two different Nodes being at Odd's with each other.
I don't think when they go to War - and are about anywhere near same as strong - > that One of them will be able to afford pissing off the own Players. The Moment they leave, everything can collapse. 😁 . 😈
Neither of those are true.
The stranger's eyes lifted to the blood red cloud on the horizon.
'We have to move. It's not safe here.'
8-/ think you should look up node progression. You want to get your node to the next level, you need to attack and delevel the nodes around you.
This game will have just as many jerks as WoW. Anything online that let's you hide who you are in real life, let's people do what they want with no consequence. In Ashes just because someone is a jerks the flagging system will still protect them on some level. You want to earn corruption, then sure get your revenge. It's just gonna cost you.
How are these not true ?
What stops You for Example - in Reallife - to just attack and swing at a random Stranger and Person you meet somewhere on a Street ?
Only your own Sanity, right ?
There is no invisible, almighty-seeming Wall or Force-field that stops you from doing so.
This sounds scary AND awesome at the same time.
But for a Reason.
While in WoW, People were only Jerks for the sole purpose and sake of it. " Enough " that Blizzard pulled the Brakes and put it even into the Policies that People remember their Place and be not unnecessarily douchy while there is absolutely no need to.
Levelling up the own Node intead, IS a reason to be douchy and hostile towards other Nodes and their Players.
Not true.
I have already witnessed that People "got banned" from WoW which i more or less knew as Acquaintances, because they didn't stop treating other Players like Garbage.
It hit especially a few Folks who always did Dungeon Runs - and then "KICKED" one or two Players from their Groups to replace them with Guild-Members or Friends from their Friendlist,
to give those the Reward of defeating the last Boss in a Dungeon, which it was for Example a Dungeon-World(?) Quest one can make every few Days.
They wrote about it in Discord. Some even them got banned for several Months. And this was ONLY as a Warning. x'D
Funny Story. Even if a scary one. Now the Question i ask myself is -> how many Times did something like this have to happen,
until Blizzard finally decided to intervene because of probably endless Complains about this douchy Behaviour ?
What is the outrageous part in this - is -> it wasn't between the two officially hostile Factions.
It was always between Alliance-only or Horde-only Players. So in other Words -> absolutely unnecessary, douchy Behaviour. x')
Exactly. Intrepid has to fight against the non-fun components of PvP and that's what they an great emphasis on as we heard on multiple occasions from Steven.
I do hope that developers come to realize everyone has different tastes in what they want from a game. And you as the developer will NEVER be able to provide what everyone wants or expects. Even if you want to!
Intrepid needs to form their vision and stick with it. The players that enjoy the game will enter and stay. Those that do not like Ashes will move on to another game. The issue many games are having right now is that they are trying to cater to everyone..... all the time..... resulting in so many games feeling the same. Even if they are not the same game, they feel to similar... so why stay?
Yeah, a lot of content creators go back and forth on opinions as it creates content, views and revenue. It's good to hear many perspectives from different sources.
Those creators essentially control a large demographic for sales through opinion seeking viewers as a following for advertising which many of them make more revenue through via sponsorships. Intrepid unfortunately over listens in my opinion. They're back and forth on their design as well. I get they want to make the "best" version of their game but they're doing what blizzard did/does catering to the masses to accommodate retention goals.
It's a sad genre that keep falling into the same feature loop.