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Skill-Tree


Skill-Tree

Reference:
The difference between the wiki-graphic and the ranger-2-update.
Discussion Topics:
-freedome of choice
-in depth skilling
-visuals (so far)
-accessibility and understanding

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Comments

  • Bapfi_BoandlBapfi_Boandl Member
    edited December 2023
    I have to admit I am a hugh fan of the wiki image. It was a hugh buying aspect for me.

    I couldn't wait to invest all my points in passives regarding the weapons i am using. Allowing me to boost my char to its limits while only using one or two active abilities. Now it looks more like the passives are restricted to the active abilities and the weapon choice.
    Yes, the ranger-skill-tree has more in depth skilling for active abilities, which changes the ability itself. Isn't it easier and less time consuming to balance all 64 classes while using the wiki image? Do you really need to skill the various active abilites into your liking. Can't they change themself by using another subclass. What are subclasses for, if not for that? Also I couldn't see the passives regarding my char... Maybe I missed it, did I?
    For the visuals: Yeah, they said they work on it...Despite that, it looks like any other MMO-Skill-Tree. If you look at the wiki-image you can see all possibilitys at the same time which leads to the last topic: accessibility and understanding.
    One small window for all your possible skill-point-investments: great overview. simple to understand. straightforward. Fast decision making possible while restricted to the easiest. Compared to that we have the ranger-skill-tree. Well, it is quite the opposite: several tabs; a maze of abilities with several starting points and overall clunky as hell. Also it triggers the image of using unnecessary points on the way to invest in the thing you want later...

    Summory:
    In my opinion they have gone overboard with the ranger-skill-tree. Why wanna complicate things if easy is the better/faster option...
  • The new fully upgraded tree looks confusing as fuck. Obviously it'll be more understandable when we go from nothing, but I personally prefer simplistic direct visuals.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    The new fully upgraded tree looks confusing as fuck. Obviously it'll be more understandable when we go from nothing, but I personally prefer simplistic direct visuals.

    Yeah exactly, it's always confusing to see a full tech tree if you didn't add the skills one by one during several weeks )
  • I like a good tree. Looks totally alright for a first iteration with barely any skills
  • For me none of the options is ok.
    But as I do not have the game to hover the mouse and read the skills and think what to choose, I cannot estimate how hard is to get used to it.
    At least the 2nd version looks more interesting, like a puzzle :)
  • NiKr wrote: »
    The new fully upgraded tree looks confusing as fuck. Obviously it'll be more understandable when we go from nothing, but I personally prefer simplistic direct visuals.

    i dont know where the starting point of the 2nd tree is T_T i think its at the bottom but im not sure omg
  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    edited December 2023
    For me, the most important is not the icon but the explanations about how the sill works...
  • Depraved wrote: »
    i dont know where the starting point of the 2nd tree is T_T i think its at the bottom but im not sure omg
    Judging by the arrows, there's several starting points - not a single one.
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    i dont know where the starting point of the 2nd tree is T_T i think its at the bottom but im not sure omg
    Judging by the arrows, there's several starting points - not a single one.

    no those are like..."get this first to unlock this one" arrows
  • Depraved wrote: »
    no those are like..."get this first to unlock this one" arrows
    Yeah, and they don't all have the same starting point. There's several beginnings.
  • Bapfi_BoandlBapfi_Boandl Member
    edited December 2023
    --sry posted twice due to technical issues--

    please feel free to add more...
  • Depraved wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    The new fully upgraded tree looks confusing as fuck. Obviously it'll be more understandable when we go from nothing, but I personally prefer simplistic direct visuals.

    i dont know where the starting point of the 2nd tree is T_T i think its at the bottom but im not sure omg

    For me it looks like there are more than one starting point. select a active and then passives
  • Honestly the color organization alone made understanding the skill tree quite easy so I disagree.
  • Shapes vs Colours

    I'm fine with the talent tree as long as it has structural sense to it. It should have options to start on whatever branch you want. As long as there is something good to work towards eventually.
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited December 2023
    I would like to see something like Darktides talent trees. Theirs are really nice because you have many crossover points where you can get to other abilities that aren't apart of the same path. Most games will force you down one path that you may not be entirely interested in, but this system gives you much more freedom over your build.

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  • I hope they release a skill calculator where you can do your build before applying on your character so you can have a general look on how your character will look like on end game, something similar to: https://archeagecodex.com/us/calc/

    There you can build up the class and skills according to your level, and see how your skills will look like in the end
  • @Trickster Wouldn`t a calculator take away the exploration aspect between the classes/subclasses? On the other hand if Intrepid doesn't release a claculator, someone of the community is going to do one definitly. Is a calculator needed anyway? They say you can change the subclasses easy so i guess this shoud affect the skill points as well?

    Amazing topic you brought up....
  • TricksterTrickster Member
    edited December 2023
    @Trickster Wouldn`t a calculator take away the exploration aspect between the classes/subclasses? On the other hand if Intrepid doesn't release a claculator, someone of the community is going to do one definitly. Is a calculator needed anyway? They say you can change the subclasses easy so i guess this shoud affect the skill points as well?

    Amazing topic you brought up....

    Well, the way I can express my feelings about it is.. As a competitive player who loves PvP, I always strive to create the best setup for my character. Having a dedicated tool instead of tinkering with the in-game skill tree is much more efficient. Furthermore, it enables people to continually innovate, sharing their builds. By doing so, you naturally gain a deeper understanding of your skills and how they perform in PvP.
  • @Trickster Wouldn`t a calculator take away the exploration aspect between the classes/subclasses?

    it wouldnt. you still want to test your builds and try them out to see how they feel nd if they are effective. a calculator would just help you with the theory.

    also not everyone would be interested in that "exploration" aspect. it isnt a bad thing.

    i also want a calculator. hell, i might even make one myself xD
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    First i miss the character passives. Maybe I missed it on the stream, did I? I really enjoy investing all my skill points into passives and only play with one or two active abilities.

    what are your thoughts.. feel free to add more...
    Active Skills are square.
    Passive Skills are round.

    Kinda difficult to demonstrate Passives.
    But, yes... seems like now you have to spec into the associated Active Skill before gaining access to the Passive Skills.

    I'd have to see what the updated Skill Tree looks like for Cleric to know how I feel about this change in the UI.
    (Because I played Cleric in Alpha 1)
  • What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans? :D

    Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans? :D

    Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.

    I liked PoE's skill tree lol

    It allowed for better customisation option however, if a game has no class structure other than skill tree's for class definition it creates a more linear meta as controversial as that sounds especially with re-specialisation options being allowed liberally. I do prefer some baseline structure to class identity ironically.

    But in games like Elden Ring, those class choices are essentially starter kits providing baseline ideal weapons, armour and focus items providing access to early abilities provided by a free level jump amount. I for one pick the wretch.

    Skill tree's should allow you to relatively choose/start where you want so you can focus on creating a build more suitable for your playstyle within the class regardless of the masses going to levelling guides (they'll be out before release 100%).

    This creator reiterated some interesting points in their recent video about how many points we could potentially be acquiring as they quoted steven about getting skill points through milestones. One at 25%, 50%, 75% and new level. Hypothetically, we could be getting 200 skill points to spend by the time we're max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MYBkW0d8z4
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited December 2023
    don't dumb down the game because players are confused or lazy at first glance, that's how we got to WoW retail

    look at a PoE skill tree, players will figure it out, keep the complexity in, and the meaningful choices
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  • Liniker wrote: »
    don't dumb down the game because players are confused or lazy at first glance, that's wow we got to WoW retail

    look at a PoE skill tree, players will figure it out, keep the complexity in, and the meaningful choices

    Agreed.

    Weird how gamers have become discouraged because of game depth. It's almost as if mainstream gaming has created a problem.
  • Missing game depth? Aren`t there meaningful choices either way? Do you spec more into passives or a variaty of skills, or wanna invest more into your weapon skill points? I dont see where the game is going to dump-down? As Dygz mentioned the passives are related to the active skills now. So we do not have character passives anymore. In exchange we got what? one or two passives related to an active skill? I feel more restricted by that choice. So I need to invest in active abilities , if i wanna or not.
  • VoeltzVoeltz Member
    edited December 2023
    PoE's skill tree is fine, but it fits better in that games design. From what I can tell it's only gear, skill choice, and the skill tree that decides your build. Looks like its mostly if not entirely general stat buffs like increased mana regen, increased range, increased attack speed. That's pretty basic honestly. I'd rather have quality over quantity.

    Based on the last showcase, the devs are taking more of a direct approach in Ashes. Your choices buff specific abilities or change how it's used ie. Omnidirectional disengage. They're not going to be able to fill up a 1300 slot PoE style skill tree that way, but that's ok. Also remember Ashes has several additional layers of customization which includes skill choice, gear, the augment system, skill tree, weapon skill tree, AND a universal skill tree.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Missing game depth? Aren`t there meaningful choices either way? Do you spec more into passives or a variaty of skills, or wanna invest more into your weapon skill points? I dont see where the game is going to dump-down? As Dygz mentioned the passives are related to the active skills now. So we do not have character passives anymore. In exchange we got what? one or two passives related to an active skill? I feel more restricted by that choice. So I need to invest in active abilities , if i wanna or not.
    I think the Passives in Alpha 1 were also based on Primary Archetype; not character.
    But, I think there were some that were the same for every Primary Archetype.
    There was a separate tree for Passives and a separate tree for Actives.

    I think it's likely, I probably would have been choosing Passives that would support my Actives, so this update to the UI could be more streamlined and might save us some Skill Points.
    But, again... I'd have to test it to know.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    How a skill tree looks is no where what's important. What matters is how it interests with the skills in a way that gives me meaningful builds. I really don't care what they look like. I don't like how you can tell what's a passive vs an active skill before you even read the description. Even Steven said they are working on this now. So...
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Um. I definitely want to know what's a Passive and what's an Active before I read the description.
  • CROW3 wrote: »
    What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans? :D

    Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.

    POE skill tree is awesome, whatever game does anything close to it gets bonus points from me.

    Idea of the tree in AoC looks cool, I'm expecting it to be larger with more levels, etc.
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