Skill-Tree

Reference:
The difference between the wiki-graphic and the ranger-2-update.
Discussion Topics:
-freedome of choice
-in depth skilling
-visuals (so far)
-accessibility and understanding

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Comments

CROW3

What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans?

Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.

Enigmatic Sage

CROW3 wrote: »

What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans?

Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.

I liked PoE's skill tree lol

It allowed for better customisation option however, if a game has no class structure other than skill tree's for class definition it creates a more linear meta as controversial as that sounds especially with re-specialisation options being allowed liberally. I do prefer some baseline structure to class identity ironically.

But in games like Elden Ring, those class choices are essentially starter kits providing baseline ideal weapons, armour and focus items providing access to early abilities provided by a free level jump amount. I for one pick the wretch.

Skill tree's should allow you to relatively choose/start where you want so you can focus on creating a build more suitable for your playstyle within the class regardless of the masses going to levelling guides (they'll be out before release 100%).

This creator reiterated some interesting points in their recent video about how many points we could potentially be acquiring as they quoted steven about getting skill points through milestones. One at 25%, 50%, 75% and new level. Hypothetically, we could be getting 200 skill points to spend by the time we're max level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MYBkW0d8z4

Liniker

don't dumb down the game because players are confused or lazy at first glance, that's how we got to WoW retail

look at a PoE skill tree, players will figure it out, keep the complexity in, and the meaningful choices

Enigmatic Sage

Liniker wrote: »

don't dumb down the game because players are confused or lazy at first glance, that's wow we got to WoW retail

look at a PoE skill tree, players will figure it out, keep the complexity in, and the meaningful choices

Agreed.

Weird how gamers have become discouraged because of game depth. It's almost as if mainstream gaming has created a problem.

Bapfi_Boandl

Missing game depth? Aren`t there meaningful choices either way? Do you spec more into passives or a variaty of skills, or wanna invest more into your weapon skill points? I dont see where the game is going to dump-down? As Dygz mentioned the passives are related to the active skills now. So we do not have character passives anymore. In exchange we got what? one or two passives related to an active skill? I feel more restricted by that choice. So I need to invest in active abilities , if i wanna or not.

Voeltz

PoE's skill tree is fine, but it fits better in that games design. From what I can tell it's only gear, skill choice, and the skill tree that decides your build. Looks like its mostly if not entirely general stat buffs like increased mana regen, increased range, increased attack speed. That's pretty basic honestly. I'd rather have quality over quantity.

Based on the last showcase, the devs are taking more of a direct approach in Ashes. Your choices buff specific abilities or change how it's used ie. Omnidirectional disengage. They're not going to be able to fill up a 1300 slot PoE style skill tree that way, but that's ok. Also remember Ashes has several additional layers of customization which includes skill choice, gear, the augment system, skill tree, weapon skill tree, AND a universal skill tree.

Dygz

Bapfi_Boandl wrote: »

Missing game depth? Aren`t there meaningful choices either way? Do you spec more into passives or a variaty of skills, or wanna invest more into your weapon skill points? I dont see where the game is going to dump-down? As Dygz mentioned the passives are related to the active skills now. So we do not have character passives anymore. In exchange we got what? one or two passives related to an active skill? I feel more restricted by that choice. So I need to invest in active abilities , if i wanna or not.

I think the Passives in Alpha 1 were also based on Primary Archetype; not character.
But, I think there were some that were the same for every Primary Archetype.
There was a separate tree for Passives and a separate tree for Actives.

I think it's likely, I probably would have been choosing Passives that would support my Actives, so this update to the UI could be more streamlined and might save us some Skill Points.
But, again... I'd have to test it to know.

nanfoodle

How a skill tree looks is no where what's important. What matters is how it interests with the skills in a way that gives me meaningful builds. I really don't care what they look like. I don't like how you can tell what's a passive vs an active skill before you even read the description. Even Steven said they are working on this now. So...

Dygz

Um. I definitely want to know what's a Passive and what's an Active before I read the description.

Mag7spy

CROW3 wrote: »

What? No Path of Exile skill tree fans?

Both of the above trees are clearly stand-in UI. I'm sure they'll make an intuitive tree.

POE skill tree is awesome, whatever game does anything close to it gets bonus points from me.

Idea of the tree in AoC looks cool, I'm expecting it to be larger with more levels, etc.

Mag7spy

Liniker wrote: »

don't dumb down the game because players are confused or lazy at first glance, that's wow we got to WoW retail

look at a PoE skill tree, players will figure it out, keep the complexity in, and the meaningful choices

AoC skill tree isn't even that complex lol. Im sure it will end up being more so since this is just A WIP for showcase.

willsummon

If what I understand is concept shown in the Ranger Showcase, there is one ability skill tree for the archetype. The variations on the skills in the ability tree will partly be from that tree and partly from points invests in various weapon trees.

If that is the case, that is a simplistic, but brilliant design and concept.

Diamaht

I like the complexity and the multiple pathways. WoW and SWTOR are examples of oversimplified skill trees, and hopefully not the direction Intrepid will go.

While I don't want PoE level of complexity, I like the multiple pathways suggested by the new skill tree.

Edit: As for UI, I'm sure it will be cleaned up as we go. As for visual reference, I definitely want to know what type of node I'm looking at, at a glance. Hopefully we'll have clear icons for actives vs passives. A large variety of icons to identify even different types of passives would be great.

I want basic info at a glance, don't want to have to read all of the descriptions just to know anything at all about a node.

Bapfi_Boandl

sounds great. basic information for first glance. and a option to read the full skill with all the related percentages and numbers as a second option

Yuyukoyay

It's pretty much impossible to judge it by what they got now because it will still likely change a few more times before release anyway. That said I really like how Diablo 2 separated their skill trees into different groups. So I knew exactly where to go when I wanted something. Diablo 2 only had active abilities, but putting points into certain ones synergized into passive benefits for other skills.

So the idea to separate them is just reusing the best version of the system ever done. They don't have to be separated quite like they are in the wiki. It's probably better that the passive benefits are next to the skills they benefit for instance.

I certainly don't want a mess like Path of Exile did either. Diablo 4 has a completely better visual concept for that exact system that is just better in every conceivable way. Neither of them are necessarily good. I'd rather the art be an afterthought than the entire thing to be built around the art. It's for seeing and planning your character. Not for going to the museum menu.

Scarctic

nanfoodle wrote: »

How a skill tree looks is no where what's important. What matters is how it interests with the skills in a way that gives me meaningful builds. I really don't care what they look like. I don't like how you can tell what's a passive vs an active skill before you even read the description. Even Steven said they are working on this now. So...

What are you even saying that makes no sense... Why do you want to cripple the UI with clutterings of bad design when you can have a clean easy-to-read, step-by-step, only the relevant stuff is shown UI?!

I don't want to study my builds before I can play the game, I want to go in and play and learn by doing.
OFC later when I'm somewhat into the systems and want to really figure things out there needs to be enough options and meaningful choices, but not from the get-go.

Intrepid needs to make reasonable compromises here.

However, my conclusion to this is that as long as everything is intuitive, meaningful, and easy on the eyes I'm in for it!

Diamaht

Scarctic wrote: »

nanfoodle wrote: »

How a skill tree looks is no where what's important. What matters is how it interests with the skills in a way that gives me meaningful builds. I really don't care what they look like. I don't like how you can tell what's a passive vs an active skill before you even read the description. Even Steven said they are working on this now. So...

What are you even saying that makes no sense... Why do you want to cripple the UI with clutterings of bad design when you can have a clean easy-to-read, step-by-step, only the relevant stuff is shown UI?!

I don't want to study my builds before I can play the game, I want to go in and play and learn by doing.
OFC later when I'm somewhat into the systems and want to really figure things out there needs to be enough options and meaningful choices, but not from the get-go.

Intrepid needs to make reasonable compromises here.

However, my conclusion to this is that as long as everything is intuitive, meaningful, and easy on the eyes I'm in for it!

Even the PoE tree is marked so you see what type of nodes are around at a glance and it has a realy nice active search function. If I type in "health" every health node on the tree glows so I can easily find them.

People want information hidden so they can get an advantage over others. They know if important info is buried in long descriptions people won't search for it or will miss it.

That mentality only hurts games in the end.

Enigmatic Sage

Skill tree's are simple, especially if there is a capstone or multiple capstone options to get to. Once a player understands their class design and build goals it is even simpler.

Smaashley

I hope they make skill-trees as complexe as they can get with a huge variety of choice without being able to master everything and allow respecs.

Enigmatic Sage

Smaashley wrote: »

I hope they make skill-trees as complexe as they can get with a huge variety of choice without being able to master everything and allow respecs.

I believe they said in one of the most recent streams that artisan re-specialisations could be much more difficult and time gated than class re-specialisations in comparisons. The frequency of class
re-specialisations or any cost associated with it has not been officially addressed or covered except vague implications in Q & A.

As for skill tree complexity, will have to see. Probably wont be too complex. Even so, I imagine most will just look up guides for meta's anyways.

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