I really dont get why knowing the distance to your target suddenly trivializes the gameplay. This is not where skill will be determined in any meaningful way.
If the range is only visible in the description of the ability, then only people who know ranges of majority of skills across all classes would be able to move in and out of ranges, while also using their own stuff w/o spamming buttons needlessly.
Even ability bar going grey when outside of range wouldn't really help, cause high skill players don't look at the bar, but they would notice the range if it was on the nameplate, cause you can just move the nameplate to be right within your vision.
And all the casuals can just rely on the bar indication or just spam their buttons away. The skill floor is still low, but the ceiling is a bit higher.
Unless you build in an clunky anti-spam mechanic to spells, people will just spam the button until in range for targeted abilities, and for projectile/directed skills you will have half of them like the bear trap in the latest showcase and the others will be what you are talking about. And this will only apply to effects that have a limited range but cover an area like a cone effect or projectiles that just disappear after x distance.
So from my view, you are wanting to protect something with little impact on the gameplay in an attempt to keep the game "more skill based" at the risk of making combat in general feel worse.
I don't get how can this upset someone, as it's shown on the screenshot would be a small distance indicator above the target life bar, which would be helpful for classes like ranger or even to take more information about how far a boss/mob or whatever is from you... Obviously if you don't like it just tweak it off
I don't get how can this upset someone, as it's shown on the screenshot would be a small distance indicator above the target life bar, which would be helpful for classes like ranger or even to take more information about how far a boss/mob or whatever is from you... Obviously if you don't like it just tweak it off
people come up with the delusion that having indicators like this or dps meters will make the game "easy" and players should just practice and get good, but the truth is, most saying it are casuals and regardless of features like this wouldn't be at the top even if the game was as easy as WoW with all their add-ons nowdays xd, it just looks like bronze players in league giving feedback that something made the game easier, while they are still ranked bronze xd
I would favor customized sights on the reticle to mark distance, then use the shot feedback to adjust and provide a relative distance. Three sight markings would be sufficient. These sights would appear in active mode, and would be much less effective with rapid fire since you are not spending your action to aim. Also think with a bow the active mode POV needs to have movement relative to shot accuracy and the skill of the archer. Plus I am in the camp of not having ranged attacks be tab targeted. Players will learn to use visual cues to better determine the initial shot.
The idea of a distance meter when the game is excluding so many other meters of equivalent or more important things just does not seem to follow the intent.
Also think distance should be more applicable to damage. While most players don’t care for a Dead zone on a bow, there most definitely is a Kill zone where the damage is most optimal. And that mechanic should mean much farther, albeit less accurate shots compared to what we’ve seen. As for Dead zones, I think it should only come into play for causing damage to the bow if the projectile cannot properly clear the weapon. Perhaps greater wear and tear is the cost of having shots within a Dead zone, but that is basically a very short distance relative to the weapon.
Friendly fire is also a thing, but not in a lot of games because ranged players like to complain about it being too hard to properly target during the chaos of most MMO combats. Guess spell effects don’t make it any easier for them. Most games using friendly fire rule tend to be games where the players are all mostly ranged, otherwise it tends to result in player to play conflict. And how would friendly fire work with corruption?
people come up with the delusion that having indicators like this or dps meters will make the game "easy" and players should just practice and get good, but the truth is, most saying it are casuals and regardless of features like this wouldn't be at the top even if the game was as easy as WoW with all their add-ons nowdays xd, it just looks like bronze players in league giving feedback that something made the game easier, while they are still ranked bronze xd
That's the whole point though. I want to get better and so I want harder designs to push me to get better. If everything's presented to me on a silver platter - I ain't getting better. This is exactly how we got the wow-easy designs in the first place.
I don't get how can this upset someone, as it's shown on the screenshot would be a small distance indicator above the target life bar, which would be helpful for classes like ranger or even to take more information about how far a boss/mob or whatever is from you... Obviously if you don't like it just tweak it off
people come up with the delusion that having indicators like this or dps meters will make the game "easy" and players should just practice and get good, but the truth is, most saying it are casuals and regardless of features like this wouldn't be at the top even if the game was as easy as WoW with all their add-ons nowdays xd, it just looks like bronze players in league giving feedback that something made the game easier, while they are still ranked bronze xd
Dps meters bring a whole different gameplay and mentality to content.
Where range indicators are mostly making something easier to understand.
I personally don't think we need DPS meters for multiple reasons, but range indicators are a none issue in general.
people come up with the delusion that having indicators like this or dps meters will make the game "easy" and players should just practice and get good, but the truth is, most saying it are casuals and regardless of features like this wouldn't be at the top even if the game was as easy as WoW with all their add-ons nowdays xd, it just looks like bronze players in league giving feedback that something made the game easier, while they are still ranked bronze xd
The irony. You're a zerg leader of 2000 players, that's not exactly a shining example of skill. Anyone who feels the need to have a guild size more than 6x the in game cap is heavily compensating for something. Asking for a convenience combat mechanic then getting mad and calling people bronze and casuals for not wanting it. Comical.
The irony. You're a zerg leader of 2000 players, that's not exactly a shining example of skill. Anyone who feels the need to have a guild size more than 6x the in game cap is heavily compensating for something. Asking for a convenience combat mechanic then getting mad and calling people bronze and casuals for not wanting it. Comical.
I see I really struck a nerve ahah feel free to show me your achievements in games that had these easy convenience combat mechanics, surely they made the game so easy that you were competing at the top, surely
@Voeltz to add to that, this is like the third time you quote me saying I'm just a zerg leader and questioning my skill as a player, may I challenge you for NA East server in Alpha 2 lets have a duel in like a month after A2 is live, and we post the results here surely you can easily beat the shit out of a brainless zerg leader right? I'll ping you again when A2 draws near with a reminder
That's the whole point though. I want to get better and so I want harder designs to push me to get better. If everything's presented to me on a silver platter - I ain't getting better. This is exactly how we got the wow-easy designs in the first place.
I see where you are coming from, but what I mean is, I played Archeage, and Tera, both games that had the mentioned distance indicators, Archeage being one of the most high-ceiling tab-based combat MMO out there, and Tera being one of the hardest action combat systems to master, both individually and for mass-pvp, and distance indicators had literally no impact on making the game easier, for me, that sounds as stupid as saying a game having a party UI is bad because makes MMOs easy,
If I am to take a statement like this seriously, I at least expect it coming from someone who mastered one of those games, and has achievements to share that support the claim of being a top-ranked player or guild to come here and say indicators made the game easy for him,
I see where you are coming from, but what I mean is, I played Archeage, and Tera, both games that had the mentioned distance indicators, Archeage being one of the most high-ceiling tab-based combat MMO out there, and Tera being one of the hardest action combat systems to master, both individually and for mass-pvp, and distance indicators had literally no impact on making the game easier, for me, that sounds as stupid as saying a game having a party UI is bad because makes MMOs easy,
Did those games have those indicators from the very start or were they added in later? Cause if it's the former then you wouldn't know if it was easier or harder, cause you only experienced it one way.
L2 didn't have distance indicators and due to its high cast/atk speed, spamming a button up until you were in range wasn't beneficial because you always wanted to sequence your abilities asap and as optimally as possible, so switching from spamming of one button into another input introduced a small lag in your actions (a mental one, not gameplay-related).
Also, in L2 your character would try to move in range automatically if you tried using an ability out of range, which could mess up your movement (and quite often did on low skill players), so it was more beneficial to "feel" the distance rather than just spam until it starts casting.
And based on that experience, if I could see a very precise distance to my target right in the center of my screen - it'd be way easier for me to weave in and out of both mine and their ranges. Would this not be true in AA/Tera, were they to not have an indicator?
True skill is like learning to parallel park trusting your judgement and getting better at it vs the auto-pilot, camera mirrors and whatever other bells and whistles holding your hand after you do it once or twice to pass your drivers licence.
The classic 1 v 1 bro. Usually doesn't solve much other than an ego check but the facts remain.
Funny thing though about the 1v1 thing in relation to AoC and military nodes....
Could have some decent combatants but shit mayors running them lol But I suppose the guild would ideally be running the node assuming the winner is part of one haha
The classic 1 v 1 bro. Usually doesn't solve much other than an ego check but the facts remain.
lol its usually the easy way to end a conversation, 0.1% of the times people who like doing forum/chat pvp and measuring e-penis actually go through, I prefer the good old ways
The classic 1 v 1 bro. Usually doesn't solve much other than an ego check but the facts remain.
lol its usually the easy way to end a conversation, 0.1% of the times people who like doing forum/chat pvp and measuring e-penis actually go through, I prefer the good old ways
Did those games have those indicators from the very start or were they added in later? Cause if it's the former then you wouldn't know if it was easier or harder, cause you only experienced it one way.
from memory, I think they did have it from start yea, I could be wrong tho, but I get what you are saying,
I just don't really see how UI information such as distance indicator/target-of-target or other similar elements could make a game easier when it usually implies an extra layer of strategy and practice around it, and 99% won't even know how to use this for their advantage,
like in archeage our pvp callers would have some shotcalls around keeping some classes at a certain distance from our targets, and pushing the distance in specific moments playing with the range and engage, this was something that required a lot of synergy and a good shot caller, if the game had no indicator the call would actually be a lot easier to follow, since players wouldn't have that extra element to think about, so for mass-pvp it actually made it harder to master, but gave organized groups an advantage against zergs that didn't bother min-maxing their positioning,
like in archeage our pvp callers would have some shotcalls around keeping some classes at a certain distance from our targets, and pushing the distance in specific moments playing with the range and engage, this was something that required a lot of synergy and a good shot caller, if the game had no indicator the call would actually be a lot easier to follow, since players wouldn't have that extra element to think about, so for mass-pvp it actually made it harder to master, but gave organized groups an advantage against zergs that didn't bother min-maxing their positioning,
How exactly would it mechanically be easier though? Would the requirement to keep that distance suddenly be removed? I'd assume that distance was kept for ability-related reasons, same as it was in L2. So not seeing that distance would require every player in your group to precisely feel the distance and relate it to their speed, while keeping opponents' speed in mind.
Obviously dumb zergs don't care about that, but that's why I said that not having an indicator would push the ceiling higher. Best players will be able to move w/o it the same way your group moved with it.
Any indicator makes the game easier, because it provides you information that you can use to play better. And it'd be difficult to play as well as that w/o said information. This is why we have that damned dps meter thread. Outside of the wow people who're used to seeing all the mechanics in their addons, the core premise of everyone who's for it is "I just wanna see the information about the fight in a more presentable and parseable way".
Except with distance indicators the feedback would be even more impactful, cause you'd be relying on it directly during the encounter, rather than afterwards.
Did those games have those indicators from the very start or were they added in later? Cause if it's the former then you wouldn't know if it was easier or harder, cause you only experienced it one way.
from memory, I think they did have it from start yea, I could be wrong tho, but I get what you are saying,
I just don't really see how UI information such as distance indicator/target-of-target or other similar elements could make a game easier when it usually implies an extra layer of strategy and practice around it, and 99% won't even know how to use this for their advantage,
like in archeage our pvp callers would have some shotcalls around keeping some classes at a certain distance from our targets, and pushing the distance in specific moments playing with the range and engage, this was something that required a lot of synergy and a good shot caller, if the game had no indicator the call would actually be a lot easier to follow, since players wouldn't have that extra element to think about, so for mass-pvp it actually made it harder to master, but gave organized groups an advantage against zergs that didn't bother min-maxing their positioning,
I see I really struck a nerve ahah feel free to show me your achievements in games that had these easy convenience combat mechanics, surely they made the game so easy that you were competing at the top, surely
@Voeltz to add to that, this is like the third time you quote me saying I'm just a zerg leader and questioning my skill as a player, may I challenge you for NA East server in Alpha 2 lets have a duel in like a month after A2 is live, and we post the results here surely you can easily beat the shit out of a brainless zerg leader right? I'll ping you again when A2 draws near with a reminder
Sorry to anyone this might disappoint, BUT: Anyone who can realistically corral as many players as this person might?
That's REAL online dedication. Yours truly was a guild-leader of a "server-giant" guild on Bria, in SWG. Yours truly knows personally the charisma, online-presence, and inter-player diplomacy that leading such a guild demands; It's no light task.
Granted, it doesn't necessarily put him in a position to speak on authority for a topic such as distance-indicators - but he'd certainly have more access to game-input than most people would have immediately available.
Never criticize a man for his successes. It simply validates his position of accomplishment; Anything you do that is big? Will *always* attract detractors.
UI informational bloat creep is going to make gamers even more mindless in my opinion. We all know features like this get abused. Look how the inclusivity features for people with disabilities completely overhauled the gaming meta. Macro scripts, add-ons, key binds and control type allowances.
Does it take information bloat overload before gamers begin to blame themselves or will they start blaming the developers that the game is too hard. It's getting absurd with these "next gen" gamers in my opinion. I'm not saying the range indicator is going to be game breaking or anything especially since how heavily tab target the combat in this game is.
Feels like it's always an excuse until the soul of the game skill is minimal.
The irony. You're a zerg leader of 2000 players, that's not exactly a shining example of skill. Anyone who feels the need to have a guild size more than 6x the in game cap is heavily compensating for something. Asking for a convenience combat mechanic then getting mad and calling people bronze and casuals for not wanting it. Comical.
I see I really struck a nerve ahah feel free to show me your achievements in games that had these easy convenience combat mechanics, surely they made the game so easy that you were competing at the top, surely
@Voeltz to add to that, this is like the third time you quote me saying I'm just a zerg leader and questioning my skill as a player, may I challenge you for NA East server in Alpha 2 lets have a duel in like a month after A2 is live, and we post the results here surely you can easily beat the shit out of a brainless zerg leader right? I'll ping you again when A2 draws near with a reminder
Not a need at all. As one plays... they will be able to determine when a shot is to far or not. Adding such a thing is just more clutter on the screen....
Comments
Unless you build in an clunky anti-spam mechanic to spells, people will just spam the button until in range for targeted abilities, and for projectile/directed skills you will have half of them like the bear trap in the latest showcase and the others will be what you are talking about. And this will only apply to effects that have a limited range but cover an area like a cone effect or projectiles that just disappear after x distance.
So from my view, you are wanting to protect something with little impact on the gameplay in an attempt to keep the game "more skill based" at the risk of making combat in general feel worse.
That's skill/experience, not dragging a UI element into the center of the screen.
people come up with the delusion that having indicators like this or dps meters will make the game "easy" and players should just practice and get good, but the truth is, most saying it are casuals and regardless of features like this wouldn't be at the top even if the game was as easy as WoW with all their add-ons nowdays xd, it just looks like bronze players in league giving feedback that something made the game easier, while they are still ranked bronze xd
The idea of a distance meter when the game is excluding so many other meters of equivalent or more important things just does not seem to follow the intent.
Also think distance should be more applicable to damage. While most players don’t care for a Dead zone on a bow, there most definitely is a Kill zone where the damage is most optimal. And that mechanic should mean much farther, albeit less accurate shots compared to what we’ve seen. As for Dead zones, I think it should only come into play for causing damage to the bow if the projectile cannot properly clear the weapon. Perhaps greater wear and tear is the cost of having shots within a Dead zone, but that is basically a very short distance relative to the weapon.
Friendly fire is also a thing, but not in a lot of games because ranged players like to complain about it being too hard to properly target during the chaos of most MMO combats. Guess spell effects don’t make it any easier for them. Most games using friendly fire rule tend to be games where the players are all mostly ranged, otherwise it tends to result in player to play conflict. And how would friendly fire work with corruption?
Dps meters bring a whole different gameplay and mentality to content.
Where range indicators are mostly making something easier to understand.
I personally don't think we need DPS meters for multiple reasons, but range indicators are a none issue in general.
I see I really struck a nerve ahah
@Voeltz to add to that, this is like the third time you quote me saying I'm just a zerg leader and questioning my skill as a player, may I challenge you for NA East server in Alpha 2 lets have a duel in like a month after A2 is live, and we post the results here
I see where you are coming from, but what I mean is, I played Archeage, and Tera, both games that had the mentioned distance indicators, Archeage being one of the most high-ceiling tab-based combat MMO out there, and Tera being one of the hardest action combat systems to master, both individually and for mass-pvp, and distance indicators had literally no impact on making the game easier, for me, that sounds as stupid as saying a game having a party UI is bad because makes MMOs easy,
If I am to take a statement like this seriously, I at least expect it coming from someone who mastered one of those games, and has achievements to share that support the claim of being a top-ranked player or guild to come here and say indicators made the game easy for him,
L2 didn't have distance indicators and due to its high cast/atk speed, spamming a button up until you were in range wasn't beneficial because you always wanted to sequence your abilities asap and as optimally as possible, so switching from spamming of one button into another input introduced a small lag in your actions (a mental one, not gameplay-related).
Also, in L2 your character would try to move in range automatically if you tried using an ability out of range, which could mess up your movement (and quite often did on low skill players), so it was more beneficial to "feel" the distance rather than just spam until it starts casting.
And based on that experience, if I could see a very precise distance to my target right in the center of my screen - it'd be way easier for me to weave in and out of both mine and their ranges. Would this not be true in AA/Tera, were they to not have an indicator?
True skill is like learning to parallel park trusting your judgement and getting better at it vs the auto-pilot, camera mirrors and whatever other bells and whistles holding your hand after you do it once or twice to pass your drivers licence.
The classic 1 v 1 bro. Usually doesn't solve much other than an ego check but the facts remain.
Could have some decent combatants but shit mayors running them lol But I suppose the guild would ideally be running the node assuming the winner is part of one haha
haha that's fair
from memory, I think they did have it from start yea, I could be wrong tho, but I get what you are saying,
I just don't really see how UI information such as distance indicator/target-of-target or other similar elements could make a game easier when it usually implies an extra layer of strategy and practice around it, and 99% won't even know how to use this for their advantage,
like in archeage our pvp callers would have some shotcalls around keeping some classes at a certain distance from our targets, and pushing the distance in specific moments playing with the range and engage, this was something that required a lot of synergy and a good shot caller, if the game had no indicator the call would actually be a lot easier to follow, since players wouldn't have that extra element to think about, so for mass-pvp it actually made it harder to master, but gave organized groups an advantage against zergs that didn't bother min-maxing their positioning,
Obviously dumb zergs don't care about that, but that's why I said that not having an indicator would push the ceiling higher. Best players will be able to move w/o it the same way your group moved with it.
Any indicator makes the game easier, because it provides you information that you can use to play better. And it'd be difficult to play as well as that w/o said information. This is why we have that damned dps meter thread. Outside of the wow people who're used to seeing all the mechanics in their addons, the core premise of everyone who's for it is "I just wanna see the information about the fight in a more presentable and parseable way".
Except with distance indicators the feedback would be even more impactful, cause you'd be relying on it directly during the encounter, rather than afterwards.
archeage did have it from the beginning.
Sorry to anyone this might disappoint, BUT: Anyone who can realistically corral as many players as this person might?
That's REAL online dedication. Yours truly was a guild-leader of a "server-giant" guild on Bria, in SWG. Yours truly knows personally the charisma, online-presence, and inter-player diplomacy that leading such a guild demands; It's no light task.
Granted, it doesn't necessarily put him in a position to speak on authority for a topic such as distance-indicators - but he'd certainly have more access to game-input than most people would have immediately available.
Never criticize a man for his successes. It simply validates his position of accomplishment; Anything you do that is big? Will *always* attract detractors.
Does it take information bloat overload before gamers begin to blame themselves or will they start blaming the developers that the game is too hard. It's getting absurd with these "next gen" gamers in my opinion. I'm not saying the range indicator is going to be game breaking or anything especially since how heavily tab target the combat in this game is.
Feels like it's always an excuse until the soul of the game skill is minimal.
duel on day 1! lvl 1 fights r the best xD