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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Crafting vs Gear dropped from Bosses
ArchivedUser
Guest
I want to open up the discussion about gear in Ashes because as we know we will have instances Dungeons and Raids. We also know we want Crafting to be very important to the world. So how do we balance Crafted gear like Armor or Weapons when so often we have Dungeons and Raids that drop the best gear and Crafters are left holding the bag?
One thing I can think of is having resistances and weapons that have different elements that can be used. I also think any Dungeon or Raid boss should have things they are resistant against and a element they are weak against. For Example a Fire Elemental boss should be Resistant to fire, but a weapon that brings with it a Ice or Water magic attack with it should do heavy damage to the Fire Elemental boss.
I also think Players in PVP should pick and choose which resistances they want to ware and have weakness in others. YES PVP will be unbalanced in this way. If you are resistant to water magic but you have a fire Mage throwing a fireball at you; yes you should take more damage.
I also think that Item Decay is big which is another post I put out there, but I also want to point out here having weapons that are charged for a handful of uses that can do massive damage but are not easily replaced or crafted. This will keep top end crafters busy trying to replace a Staff of pyroblast That does 500 direct damage and 250 Damage each second for 5 seconds. Thing is a Staff like this should be very hard to make because the materials for it should be hard to get.
Any crafted equipment should be also be dropped off of any boss set in a tier. For Example let's say Dungeons have 9 tiers of loot tables. Each table is equal to the tier of crafted gear that can be made. So an Axe with a 50 Damage Per hit is a Tier 2 item crafted and Tier 2 dungeons will drop that same Axe but all bosses share the same table BUT its a randomize drop in that table. It makes Crafters the best way to getting gear but not the only way to get gear. You can also add these same tables into the quest/quest rewards. Players should have multiple ways of getting items BUT 1 way should not be better gear than others if on the same Tier, it should be which method does the player want to use to get the gear.
One thing I can think of is having resistances and weapons that have different elements that can be used. I also think any Dungeon or Raid boss should have things they are resistant against and a element they are weak against. For Example a Fire Elemental boss should be Resistant to fire, but a weapon that brings with it a Ice or Water magic attack with it should do heavy damage to the Fire Elemental boss.
I also think Players in PVP should pick and choose which resistances they want to ware and have weakness in others. YES PVP will be unbalanced in this way. If you are resistant to water magic but you have a fire Mage throwing a fireball at you; yes you should take more damage.
I also think that Item Decay is big which is another post I put out there, but I also want to point out here having weapons that are charged for a handful of uses that can do massive damage but are not easily replaced or crafted. This will keep top end crafters busy trying to replace a Staff of pyroblast That does 500 direct damage and 250 Damage each second for 5 seconds. Thing is a Staff like this should be very hard to make because the materials for it should be hard to get.
Any crafted equipment should be also be dropped off of any boss set in a tier. For Example let's say Dungeons have 9 tiers of loot tables. Each table is equal to the tier of crafted gear that can be made. So an Axe with a 50 Damage Per hit is a Tier 2 item crafted and Tier 2 dungeons will drop that same Axe but all bosses share the same table BUT its a randomize drop in that table. It makes Crafters the best way to getting gear but not the only way to get gear. You can also add these same tables into the quest/quest rewards. Players should have multiple ways of getting items BUT 1 way should not be better gear than others if on the same Tier, it should be which method does the player want to use to get the gear.
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I'd like to see materials harvested from mobs and the environment for which crafters then use to create the items for the world.
The world of Ashes though was once inhabited by us so I would be surprised if we never came across items used before the mass exodus, and that are still functional upon our return. This is a fantasy game after all so I am hoping to see some legendary items lost to the ages waiting to be discovered again.
I’d like to see materials harvested from mobs and the environment for which crafters then use to create the items for the world.
The world of Ashes though was once inhabited by us so I would be surprised if we never came across items used before the mass exodus, and that are still functional upon our return. This is a fantasy game after all so I am hoping to see some legendary items lost to the ages waiting to be discovered again.
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See I dont mind this so much. The reason why is I think of Dizzit in D&D and how he fought Icingdeath with Wulfgur. Dizzit then looted a sword from Icingdeath's loot. To me that fits an RPG Game. Look at the Hobbit with Bilbo's sword, they killed the trolls and then looted their cave.
Whatever ways are used, crafting should be made to matter it should not be boring and repetitive, but should be challenging. Being a master crafter should not be something anyone can achieve similar to how not everyone becomes a top tier raider.
Example : player A needs to go to raid A go to player B and ask to craft a set/weapon for the raid, putting, some materials, and some fee he can go to raid.. get an PVP weapon/armor, go to palyer C to discover the enchantment in the item, with this done player A goes to PVP with especific equipment, the idea is that the actually hardcore raiders, can actively use a system that requires his guildmates, so the guilds can be more open, and not just power houses for PVP its, just a base idea, to give some meaning to other skills than hack and slash, iam not a fan of raids, and iam not a fan of auction houses, i think, that they just ruin the game, in social lvl at least, and create a big barrier beetween players that can pull off all the raids with 20-30 people, and the people that can´t get that many people together.
Or at least if any of this can be done, the idea of the raids not giving top gear it could be good too. The top tier gear should be crafted not dropped randomly and sent to the AH because i have already a dozen of the LAST MEGA UNIQUE DESTROYER SWORD.
Sorry for my half assed english
Allow sweet loot to drop from bosses but make it customizable.
In real crafting, 90% of what is done is not creation, it's repair and modification.
So a play loots *Uber Mace of Fluffy Tail* from *The Flying Squirrel of Venatras* Great! but they notice its rusted(low durability), dull(reduced atk), and missing some jewels(has 2 open sockets)
The sockets would need jewelers, and repairing it would need a high level weapon smith. Additionally, it double be upgraded for better stats, or roughed down,(stat reset).
Crafters can also make items from scratch, perhaps giving the items stat set a larger diversity in base stats compared to dropped items, allowing for custom builds.
*shrug*
Whatever ways are used, crafting should be made to matter it should not be boring and repetitive, but should be challenging. Being a master crafter should not be something anyone can achieve similar to how not everyone becomes a top tier raider.
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I too think it would be cool to implement the idea of adjusting armor or weapons that don't necessarily fit to your character.
I mainly get frustrated with games these days that have professions of some sort like blacksmithing or tailoring like in Wow, but yet to a certain point they become useless and a waste of time to make. One thing I like about Ashes of Creation already is the detail they put to things such as crafting. Not only making it spiffy, but at the same time make it a necessity, a job you could have to service other players. I also like to think it connects a guild in terms of crafting and sorts, becomes a benefit for the entirety of the guild.
I think the way looting should work is based on the monster. I could see attacking an orc and receiving orc armor from it, but I'm human so I would have to find some way to make it useable (such as a crafter). I don't think everything you find should be instantly useable, but I don't think it should be impossible either. I can see for like their staches, or whatever storage they have from what they took from slain adventurers being useable because where they came from. I also believe there should be a equal balance for both crafting items, and loot from creatures or bosses. I don't think one should be less than the other.
Like this you will have a mix do raids pve and crafting etc do it all and as long items are not soulbound if someone doesn't like to do it go buy it of someone else :-)
I can see the appeal to that at first glance, but then again, I need a set for every element then swapping around nonstop. All the clutter happening for x- elements. No thanks that's to much administrative work for nothing and resistance set in pvp is especially unwelcome.
Gear trumps Skill? Where have I heard that before? Right in p2w cashshop items, now we grind to have a singleuse win pyroblast staff? Sorry but this feels completly missguided for a healthy game, even thinking about it makes me shudder. Having the need to carry that shit around at al times to be competitive, because that's what is going to happen and completly burry the actual game under it.
Steven let us know already that he loves his crafting and is designing an extensive system for it, as evident by several indepth answers in the discord Q&A, you might want to check that out.
Specific elemental resistance warranting a entire build to be based around it would cause huge problems and would be easily abused because mages have access to different elements and the fact that it could only be abused by mages where other classes it not might be that big of a deal.
I’d like to see materials harvested from mobs and the environment for which crafters then use to create the items for the world.
The world of Ashes though was once inhabited by us so I would be surprised if we never came across items used before the mass exodus, and that are still functional upon our return. This is a fantasy game after all so I am hoping to see some legendary items lost to the ages waiting to be discovered again.
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This.
Have them drop mats.
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If Dungeons are more than 10 minute affairs and no automated grouping tool. It will be very easy to keep people from farming dungeons. Dungeons should require 5 to 12 people, should require a Support class with tank, DPS, and healers. They should require 60 to 90 minutes to complete and if they take longer then save points should be added. And No Automated group finder tools but a Party browser system is good. Doing this will slow down any farming other than the guilds that have kids in them that play 24x7. If instances and these systems are done right the highest tier's gear will be achievable with some work and PVEers will be doing dungeons because its profitable, Fun and not just for gear. Gold can be used for upkeep on houses, or Shop Vendors or other things. So if a person does not want to craft but gets a load of gems for crafted items, then they are likely to sell the gems or trade the gems for gear.
Specific elemental resistance warranting a entire build to be based around it would cause huge problems and would be easily abused because mages have access to different elements and the fact that it could only be abused by mages where other classes it not might be that big of a deal.
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Resistances cannot be abused because gear should have 1 specific resistance its meant to protest against. Here is an example Vin. http://www.uoguide.com/Dragon_Scales Red Scales from UO would make Red Scale Armor. That Armor would protect against fire but makes you weak against Cold. So it balances out. The other resistances are helpful but not enough to protect you more than a small amount usually less than a percent or two. Again NO way to abuse resistances. You are thinking along the lines of WOW resistances or FFXIV.
I just started playing GW2 and I'm level 80 with all gear from quest or just leveling up, is better than crafted to this point.
I just started playing GW2 and I’m level 80 with all gear from quest or just leveling up, is better than crafted to this point.
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I like your idea, as such a crafting window would prevent players to scam each other.
And with drops needed to improve gear would give high level crafters something to do in this game. I like it.
on the one Hand it would require an totaly new System which isnt a bad Thing at the first look but its gonna be rly rly tough to Balance it out that well that it actually would be an good alternativ and by failing it could have an really bad Impact on the game because it makes it tough to grind for good loot
I would love to have a real choice between crafting and looting aswell but i dont think its a good idea to actually Combine it because if you are able to find crafting components in an dungeon crafters gonna be really happy because they get 2 loots at the same time but People who dont skill crafting they dont get any value of the crafting components beside the ability to sell it (but we all know that the Gold you get for such components is far away from the value because you cant buy items for that Money that would be as good as the weapon that you could´ve crafted) so maxing the crafting skill would give you an pretty huge Advantage above People who dont skill that...
My idea would be to have two totaly diffrent sources for Items. A) the typicall grinding in dungeons and B) Crafting your items while you get the needed components in a diffrent type of dungeon...maybe it is not about hit&slay like in normal dungeons but maybe you have so solve diffrent puzzles (maybe combined with the typical Mobs) this could be implemented in the Story by finding ancient ruins where you can find old Technology to forge powerful weapons but they are secured by an "secruity System" so you have to solve some mysteries to unlock those items/Technologys
for example you could also alternate the spawns of those ruins so its not the same for evrybody which would work around the fact that otherwise you would find the solution for zhese puzzles online really fast
It might be tough to implement aswell but i think this could allow you to actually Chose 2 totaly diffrent sources of your Equipment that also have an Impact on how exactly you are going to Play this game a) you fight and hope for lucky loot which would be depended on luck, time, loot area, diffrent buffs and maybe Teamwork while These "puzzle" dungeons depend mostly on how "smart" you are, how well you know the Story of the game, maybe Teamwork(with puzzles that have to be solved as a Team) and luck so you find a dungeon that offers really rare components
To make it clear i dont think every crafting component should be only optainable by going into those puzzle dungeons....most of the items should still be found in the open world or maybe partially (i could think of an old mine for ores) in dungeons but some rare items should only be accessable by crafting them and maybe 1 or at some cases even 2 components should only be optainable in those puzzle dungeons which would make it worth skilling as crafter but still its not needed because you can still loot the normal way in dungeons so its up to you which way you prefer....hit&slay or puzzle (i know puzzle elemts are really rarely a part of any mmorpg and i dont think this should be a Major Feature for the game but in small partions like this it could be really fun and mix some Things up)
I would really like to hear some Feedback from you guys because i think its quiet an interesting idea but its hard for me to evaluate how good you can implement those Features into an actuall game
Its impossible to read what you wrote because its one very long run on sentence
I also like idea of having crafting items in dungeons. My only concern with such approach is I do not want to have to grind the same dungeon over and over again if it is not good. I also think some extremely rare and powerful gear should only be found by questing/dungeons. Maybe the game lets you craft the best sword or Armor, but maybe it just happens that the best belt or ring you can find is a rare drop in the world. Some sort of combination so PVE players can also find some great stuff.
Crafting these days has led to so much grinding in games. I hope they can find the right balance. Story has suffered in so many games as well, or been made just way to complex to follow.
I know my favorite game for gear to play was WOW. I thought it was awesome that every few level I always seemed to find a better item. That is why I am not sure crafting isn't vastly overrated. Nothing like questing and finding something that actually doesn't suck otherwise what is the point of questing?
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Yes I am. What I would suggest is type up your thoughts in Microsoft Word or an application like word. Then use the Translate tool to translate it into English. It would give what you wrote a lot better format. You can at least write it in your own language and then let the computer translate what you said the best way it can.
I also like idea of having crafting items in dungeons. My only concern with such approach is I do not want to have to grind the same dungeon over and over again if it is not good. I also think some extremely rare and powerful gear should only be found by questing/dungeons. Maybe the game lets you craft the best sword or Armor, but maybe it just happens that the best belt or ring you can find is a rare drop in the world. Some sort of combination so PVE players can also find some great stuff.
Crafting these days has led to so much grinding in games. I hope they can find the right balance. Story has suffered in so many games as well, or been made just way to complex to follow.
I know my favorite game for gear to play was WOW. I thought it was awesome that every few level I always seemed to find a better item. That is why I am not sure crafting isn’t vastly overrated. Nothing like questing and finding something that actually doesn’t suck otherwise what is the point of questing?
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Questing should give you the gold to buy gear not drop the gear for you. That turns the game into a game on rails. If you can get the gold by either questing, grinding mobs, or doing dungeons it gives you choice to what you want to do. By suggesting that gear drop from quest because it was good in WOW will only cause people who played WOW or FFXIV or any other themepark rail games to ask this question. "Why am I going to play Ashes if Ashes is just a copy and paste of WOW?" Then people will just stick with what ever game they want.
If you do not want to approach the game as a Dungeon grind like WOW and the other MMORPGS today you need to take all loot gear drops out of instances in the way it is today. If loot is not the main focus of Dungeons then you are likely to do it because you want to do the dungeon for fun, the gold, loot you can sell for gold, and crafting mats that you can use or give to a friend or sell. All bosses in a tier drop anything in the tier pool so there is no need to do the same dungeon over and over again. We need to redefine loot completely here OR we just end up with WOW/FFXIV which people will just continue playing because Ashes will not be different from current games.
We also need to get away from always needing to replace gear you have every few minutes to feel like we are progressing while doing quest. You should be thinking of gear as what will help me do what I want to do. Yes players should think about what elemental damages they are using. No they should not use Fire Damage weapons on a Fire Elemental. Streamlining everything has hurt MMORPGS.
If everything is based on gold we have major problems because that is exactly what a gold farmer wants to hear. The last thing I want to play is a game that forces people to buy from gold farmers. Archeage is a disaster with gear. It is all about crafting and having mats that you simply wont be able to attain without exploits and alt armies. That is why Archeage is completely dead at this time. Those are the people ruining the MMO genre.
Basically in my perfect MMO give me tons of dungeons like WOW with WOW gear with some tweaks. Make those dungeons have cool features like found in the AD&D mmo where rogues found hidden things. I recall there was some cool stuff to figure out to get through their dungeons too. Give me the seamless expansive world of Archeage. Now give me a simple great story with awesome quest. I liked the start to ESO but I couldn't stand the entire world covered in brown so I quit after two hours. Another game I recall that had cool quest was Baulders Gate. Keep awesome trading and crafting. Give me an auction house but put a minimum sell price on items so Mats do not sell for more than the crafted items worth. Crafted items should be worth more that is the point of crafting. Give me the ships of Archeage. Stop alt armies and do not allow one pc to run multiple clients. I know I am leaving out some ideas but somebody please get it right lol. Obviously a great game has rare mob spawns, awesome raids, and events. PVP should be balance too. Regarding classes they should not all be made to be equal. What they should all have is a class that is their weakness. If everyone is vulnerable to something you have better pvp.
I would hardly say I want a WOW clone. I mean I hate pandas for one. Give me classic races, and monsters. Maybe open a AD&D monster manual. Do something because I do not want to fight cute fur balls and wear bunny ears. WOW had a huge advantage over other game makers and endless resources and still squandered it because of lack of vision. The foundation of WOW was incredible though and that is why it was so successful. To ignore that and any influence from it would be foolishly insane. The quest sucked though. Get ten of these and then go get ten of those is not fun questing. Still to this day I have never made a toon in any MMO that looked as cool as my favorite WOW toon. That says something considering how many years ago WOW came out.
Archeage gave me an incredible open world. I mean you climb a mountain and the view is beautiful as it should be. The oceans are expansive and potentially dangerous. To ignore that would be crazy I think too.
The point is a great game takes the best elements from everyone. Not all things WOW related should be ignored. The game has a lot to teach us. I personally love being able to upgrade gear like I used to in WOW. That is just my personal preference. I play Archeage now and have been wearing the exact same gear for two months because there is no way I am spending insane amounts of gold on regrading. That is boring! That ruins the game for me. WOW ruins it with lame quest and pandas and not having things like schooners in an open ocean.
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I would hardly ever want a copy and paste of WOW. What I really want to see is the best from everything put into one awesome game, as well as some really awesome innovations.
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Then you are saying this
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Basically in my perfect MMO give me tons of dungeons like WOW with WOW gear with some tweaks.
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You are copying and pasting WOW here with no change. You are going to create a Repetitive dungeon crawl game that will end up throwing in a Automating group finder tool which ruins MMORPG communities and a Gear treadmill.
So I would ask you this, IF you want a copy and paste of WOW which you are saying why wouldn’t you just play WOW? This is the problem with today’s Games. They consistently go back to WOW because it was the most successful MMORPG without looking at what WOW has become because the Developer design and thinking WOW always has to be copied.
Now I am like you. I love Vanilla WOW and TBC WOW dungeons. Problem is that will NEVER happen again because people will bitch until they get a LFD tool that kills communities because they expect Dungeon runs daily multiple times a day and for them to be pointlessly easy.
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If everything is based on gold we have major problems because that is exactly what a gold farmer wants to hear. The last thing I want to play is a game that forces people to buy from gold farmers. Archeage is a disaster with gear. It is all about crafting and having mats that you simply wont be able to attain without exploits and alt armies. That is why Archeage is completely dead at this time. Those are the people ruining the MMO genre.
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First ArcheAge is dead not because of Gold Farmers or their crafting system. Its dead because the game was P2W and everyone knows this. I played AA day one and loved the game but hated how many people were spending real money to get their gear ahead of everyone else.
Second If you played any MMORPG prior to WOW’s release in 2004 you will know that most MMORPGs relied heavily on buying gear through their currency. Examples that I played are UO and SWG. Both you can buy what ever you wanted if you had the Gold in UO and credits in SWG. It was not hard to make Gold or Credits in either game. Yep it took time. Yep their were gold sellers and they often got ban and so did the players account who bought the gold. If you Think the game FORCED people to buy gold or credits you are 100% wrong. The problem is for example in UO people wanted Castles, they were rare and cost hundreds of millions of gold to get and few people if any would sell them. Most people that wanted a Castle didn’t buy gold to get a castle, they worked for months to get the gold for the castle buy killing monsters and selling stuff. In SWG Credits were so fluid and not hard to come by that people rarely bought credits except it they were doing the jedi grind.
The Key is to get away from today’s Dungeon Gear Treadmill which needs to end. If I was to see another Gear Treadmill game I wouldn’t play it, I would stay in FFXIV. What I want is OLD school gaming where it took work and effort and time to earn stuff. Yea you will need to farm Gold. But you know how in SWG players had a lot of credits? They sold stuff they were not using and I don’t mean to an NPC vendor who gave them 100 credits. They sold that stuff on their own vendors, or the bazar. A lot of players had harvesters that helped them get materials that they sold. Then in turn they both gear. There was nothing in SWG that players couldn’t get with a little work. No Credit Sellers needed.
Listen I hear what you are saying about Dungeons and Progression. I enjoyed that too back in Vanilla WOW and TBC. Best time in my life in MMORPGS because they were engaging. The problem is players no longer are willing to wait around for a group, or have any Dungeon that forced them to fail if they were no good. Today Players want hack n slash easy and to be totally geared with the best gear in 2 months. MMORPGS cannot survive like that.
If you get rid of the gear Treadmill and make it so Gold is the key to Dungeons, with Crafting mats involved, Glamour gear and the same gear that crafters can make you can make Dungeons enjoyable again. You can make Dungeons something you love to do but do a few days a week because you dont have automated tools. Flatten out the gear deal because that resolve so many issues and content can be so much more enjoyable. No more Trophies for everyone because the only Trophies there will be is rare Glamour gear that most people can take it or leave it.
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See I too do want to find a useful sword in a Dungeon. What I do not want is the gear Treadmill. Also I am not saying you are going to have the same gear for months, that becomes a choice because I also want Item Decay which means consistently replacing gear. There should be several hundred different combinations of gear. For example there should be a sword with a special trait called Elemental Slayer. You dont use this sword on anything other than killing Elementals because it gives you 50% more damage on Elementals and since the gear breaks you dont want to use this sword on just anything.
I want an open gear system where everything is useful but there is a large part that is situational. This gear can either drop from a chest or they can be crafted. Yes you should be replacing gear because your gear breaks and you need new gear. If you want a Dragon slayer weapon maybe a crafter that specializes in Dragon Slayer weapons is someone you want to talk to about picking one up or go into a dungeon what specializes in those weapons for drop rates.