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Regarding the new node they showed today

ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
The node looked really good next to the river, but a bit too empty. One thing I loved in the node streaming was that it was full of NPCs doing their day-to-day and even with no player it felt like a living place. I know this is an alpha and probably this node is not finished, but just to point out that please keep NPCs in the nodes, not only for gameplay, but also for environment and feeling of a living place. Just like other games such as Throne and Liberty or Black Desert Online.

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    To be fair, they didn't really poke around the node very much. The last node update video showed plenty of animated/patrolling NPC-life.

    I think it just had to do with what was being highlighted.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.

    well assuming the first node they showed was plenty of NPCs, I hope they haven't "down grade it" in this way. I hope it is just unfinished, but they should be able to have a lot of NPCs + players. Look at Throne and Libety.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    Look at Throne and Libety.
    Yes, a finished game that was ~10 years in production and an alpha version of a game from a smaller indie studio. Yes :)
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    Look at Throne and Libety.
    Yes, a finished game that was ~10 years in production and an alpha version of a game from a smaller indie studio. Yes :)

    That's not the point. It is possible and I hope they can.
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    No need to worry about this! The node you saw today was not in a complete or polished state. The team still plans on having alive nodes with NPCs going about their business :)
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  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 31
    Vaknar wrote: »
    No need to worry about this! The node you saw today was not in a complete or polished state. The team still plans on having alive nodes with NPCs going about their business :)

    Wonderful. I don't know if I'm the only one, but immersion is key in an MMORPG, and having social places such as villages, towns and city full of life it makes it more immersive. This is something that Asmongold always point out, and games like BDO, Throne and Liberty and even World of Warcraft despite its years, do vey weill. I know that having NPCs doing their business don't add much gameplay, but immersion is very important. Thanks for clarify this Vaknar.

    @NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
    Where exactly was my initial response negative? My answer was to your comparison of a ready game to a non-game. Obviously they CAN do that, but at current point of non-game their current build might've not supported 2 raids-worth of active players together with city npcs on the server.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 31
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
    Where exactly was my initial response negative? My answer was to your comparison of a ready game to a non-game. Obviously they CAN do that, but at current point of non-game their current build might've not supported 2 raids-worth of active players together with city npcs on the server.

    Here:

    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.

    A staff member have already confirmed it wasn't about optimization, but an incomplete/unpolished node.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    A staff member have already confirmed it wasn't about optimization, but an incomplete/unpolished node.
    If you read that supposition in a negative way - I'm sorry. I was simply stating a possibility of the current state of the build. That sentence had no "I hate the devs and they're horrible at their job" coloring. I was saying what I thought was a more probably situation, cause to me it seems that plopping a few npcs into a node before a showcase is easier than risking the game crashing because the current state of the build/server doesn't support 2 active player raids AND those plopped npcs.
  • SengardenSengarden Member, Alpha Two
    Even when A2 drops, I wouldn't be surprised if the nodes we see then get even more polish and NPC "flavor" before launch. Having deadlines for anything usually means the frills get left behind on the middle-milestones. I'm sure they'll all look as good as the node-specific update we got earlier when A2 launches, but I still see room for improvement later down the line. All in good time.
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    edited February 1
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
    Where exactly was my initial response negative? My answer was to your comparison of a ready game to a non-game. Obviously they CAN do that, but at current point of non-game their current build might've not supported 2 raids-worth of active players together with city npcs on the server.

    Here:

    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.

    A staff member have already confirmed it wasn't about optimization, but an incomplete/unpolished node.

    What exactly about what you bolded from @NiKr was negative? He gave two possible perspectives on why the npcs might not be so present:

    - Optimisation
    - Unfinished Node.

    When Vaknar replied he confirmed it was the 2nd option. So actually one of the two suggestions he made would end up to be the case.

    Are we now saying that people assuming something that might not turn out to be true BY DEFAULT is considered negative?

    Even his tone was incredibly neutral.

    "I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node."

    I think you're picking fights where fights don't need to be had.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 1
    AidanKD wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
    Where exactly was my initial response negative? My answer was to your comparison of a ready game to a non-game. Obviously they CAN do that, but at current point of non-game their current build might've not supported 2 raids-worth of active players together with city npcs on the server.

    Here:

    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.

    A staff member have already confirmed it wasn't about optimization, but an incomplete/unpolished node.

    What exactly about what you bolded from @NiKr was negative? He gave two possible perspectives on why the npcs might not be so present:

    - Optimisation
    - Unfinished Node.

    When Vaknar replied he confirmed it was the 2nd option. So actually one of the two suggestions he made would end up to be the case.

    Are we now saying that people assuming something that might not turn out to be true BY DEFAULT is considered negative?

    Even his tone was incredibly neutral.

    "I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node."

    I think you're picking fights where fights don't need to be had.

    He gave two possibilities but he was definitely more inclined towards one over the other, and the one he favored was based on not being possible for the sake of optimization. It's negative because the most common thought is the node isn't finished (like many other things) and since the first node they shown was full of npcs doing their business, there is no reason why the other doesn't have to follow the same guidelines (and I'm pretty sure they tested the first node with more people inside it to check optimization), yet he was betting more on the not being possible due to optimization issues with a lot of players, so we couldn't be able to have somethint that cool. Then a staff member came to confirm what I was asking and confirmed what I thought at first. He was negative (as many people are, there is nothing wrong with that, although I recommend to be more positive in life) to think it is not possible instead of thinking it is a WIP, and that's it.

    Idk if he is your friend or something, but I think you don't need to jump into a 1-on-1 discussion and turn it into a 2-on-1, especially when the whole thing has ended. But, I know you will want to have the last word, so I'll give you that pleasure :).
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    to think it is not possible instead of thinking it is a WIP, and that's it.
    You do realize that "not being able to do smth right now" applies to the "this is WIP" as well, right? And I simply didn't assume what you did, that they've tested the previous node with a ton of players in it (because I wouldn't have any proof for that assumption).

    And even if I did make that assumption, builds change throughout development. NPC behaviors might've gotten a tweak, so now server can't quite keep up. Mass PvP might've been overloading the current server structure, when combined with NPCs doing stuff rather than just standing in one place.

    My supposition was based exactly on the fact that the game is a WIP. I was just supposing a more macro issue, rather than thinking it was a micro one of "they simply didn't place npcs there yet". If macro issues are seen as negative, then I sure hope Intrepid fix their entire damn alpha real quick, otherwise it's gonna be real negative, cause I'm sure that they have a shitton of macro issues (the tank feedback loop from Steven's anecdote seems like one, for example).
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    Artharion wrote: »
    AidanKD wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    NiKr see? I told you. Don't have to be always that negative.
    Where exactly was my initial response negative? My answer was to your comparison of a ready game to a non-game. Obviously they CAN do that, but at current point of non-game their current build might've not supported 2 raids-worth of active players together with city npcs on the server.

    Here:

    I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node.

    A staff member have already confirmed it wasn't about optimization, but an incomplete/unpolished node.

    What exactly about what you bolded from @NiKr was negative? He gave two possible perspectives on why the npcs might not be so present:

    - Optimisation
    - Unfinished Node.

    When Vaknar replied he confirmed it was the 2nd option. So actually one of the two suggestions he made would end up to be the case.

    Are we now saying that people assuming something that might not turn out to be true BY DEFAULT is considered negative?

    Even his tone was incredibly neutral.

    "I'd assume it was more about optimization of a ton of players + npcs in one place. Though there's definitely a chance that it was just an unfinished node."

    I think you're picking fights where fights don't need to be had.

    He gave two possibilities but he was definitely more inclined towards one over the other, and the one he favored was based on not being possible for the sake of optimization. It's negative because the most common thought is the node isn't finished (like many other things) and since the first node they shown was full of npcs doing their business, there is no reason why the other doesn't have to follow the same guidelines (and I'm pretty sure they tested the first node with more people inside it to check optimization), yet he was betting more on the not being possible due to optimization issues with a lot of players, so we couldn't be able to have somethint that cool. Then a staff member came to confirm what I was asking and confirmed what I thought at first. He was negative (as many people are, there is nothing wrong with that, although I recommend to be more positive in life) to think it is not possible instead of thinking it is a WIP, and that's it.

    Idk if he is your friend or something, but I think you don't need to jump into a 1-on-1 discussion and turn it into a 2-on-1, especially when the whole thing has ended. But, I know you will want to have the last word, so I'll give you that pleasure :).

    This isn't a one on one discussion. You created a thread which is a public discussion. If you would like a one on one discussion with someone then you should message them privately. When you put yourself out in the open you make yourself open to criticism.

    I also like healthy discussion. Healthy discussion can have opposing views without making personal attacks on people - such as self-valuing their views as "negative". It's not about negative or positive views. There are just different views which you've associated your values. You're welcome to do that, but it's not objective and warrants itself to not be taken as seriously.

    As an example, when we got the update from Vaknar, you followed with "see? I told you" - it comes across a little as rubbing it in his face. It was just (in my opinion) - a pointless thing to say that added nothing and served only to stir up.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2
    But, I know you will want to have the last word, so I'll give you that pleasure

    I knew it. So predictable :)
  • Nexus777Nexus777 Member
    I think it all was just for the showcase. You didn't see monsters on the road either to keep you occupied.
    I hope that you'll see a very livid Verra on the future.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Nexus777 wrote: »
    I think it all was just for the showcase. You didn't see monsters on the road either to keep you occupied.
    I hope that you'll see a very livid Verra on the future.
    We saw a few mobs attack them, but definitely fewer than in the previous caravan showcase.
  • AidanKDAidanKD Member
    Artharion wrote: »
    But, I know you will want to have the last word, so I'll give you that pleasure

    I knew it. So predictable :)

    You're unbelievably petty. Apparently if someone responds to the points you make it's "having the last word". It's not down to one person to dictate when a conversation ends. All it does is feed this complex you have in your head that you're above everyone around you.

    The sarcastic smileys at the end of your points are pretty hollow too, because the way you actually compose yourself is black and white in the words that you write.

    I suppose that you probably won't be replying to this comment though, because in doing so you would be having the last word; a pleasure only reserved for me? :smile:
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