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Tab targeting combat in PvP makes no sense today.
Sauronplay
Member
How about guys, I want to give my opinion on the tab target, I know there are many discussions about this, but we have to remind intrepid that the tab target is obsolete and I understand that Steven wants to make an old school mmorp, but I disagree in delivering the tab target and especially in pvp since we could not dodge certain targeted abilities.
For me it doesn't make sense since it would be extremely easy to cast skills and I think that even a noob could kill anyone without having to use their developed skills (action combat), it is reasonable that the tab target is used in pve, they are compatible since we are killing npcs or mobs. But adding tab target to pvp does not make sense, since pvp has great synchronization with action combat, apart from improving your skills with mouse control and launching skills (keyboard) among others. In my opinion they should automatically disable the target tab for pvp. I know it's hybrid combat, but I wanted to give this suggestion.
What do you guys think?
For me it doesn't make sense since it would be extremely easy to cast skills and I think that even a noob could kill anyone without having to use their developed skills (action combat), it is reasonable that the tab target is used in pve, they are compatible since we are killing npcs or mobs. But adding tab target to pvp does not make sense, since pvp has great synchronization with action combat, apart from improving your skills with mouse control and launching skills (keyboard) among others. In my opinion they should automatically disable the target tab for pvp. I know it's hybrid combat, but I wanted to give this suggestion.
What do you guys think?
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Unless you make some sort of keybinds for target 1,2,3 (maybe for instanced PvP areas) then again how does it know in open world? etc tab just makes it so it select closest one and cycles
How do you suggest you target other than manually with a mouse?
Tab is not obsolete and it fits pvp just right, it's simply a different approach to pvp.
So no, tab should never be turned off. And humans are also no different from mobs, so I see no reason why combat against either should be treated differently.
Thank you
I think we need to see what the action mode does when its properly done so we can see which skills actually work when its turned on.
We are supposedly to be able to aim abilities as a function of the game. Last we heard the action toggle isn't working functionally.
Including Action Skills is great, though.
As a result anyone going into PvP thinking "I just tab target and kill them all" is going to be at a disadvantage from the get go. Which leads to the conclusion that there is no need to exclude those skills from PvP. If someone takes a spoon to a knife fight and you are still rewarded for winning - that sounds like a good deal to me.
We've seen a resurgence in pixel games, and Baldurs Gate 3 literally won GOTY and is killing it.
When was the last tab based MMO release you remember? All the latest I am aware of have ALL been action.
And yet the most successful MMOs are STILL... WoW, FF14 etc (to a lesser degree GW2?)
The type of combat is simply a choice and it's not about one being better worse - they just allow for different systems.
Action games tend to have less abilities, more mobility mechanics baked in or skill based systems (i.e. dodge, parry/timed attacks/defense).
Tab games tend to have more abilities, more focus on itemisation and stats.
There can be overlaps - but this is the general trend. It's very clear there is still a huge audience that are happy to play Tab games - and for them wouldn't it be nice if a successful tab based MMO released after* literally like 2013 (FF14 ARR release). That's over 10 years.
Action players can build the chars with lower evasion, because they can balance that out through dodges, while tab players can boost their evasion if they feel that their dodging skills are shit.
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And what’s the alternative?
This is similar to ESO targeting and I think it's good balance between tab and action. Also I remember Steven mentioning something about "soft lock" so I assumed it can be sort of what they're trying to do already.
In my opinion I grew up on tab targeting games it’s not obsolete, that being said I love the feel of combat in games like new world action combat system. I believe this games offer both so I don’t see any problems with that. Some people suck with tab targeting games and some suck with action combat giving us the option to choose will give players the power to gameplay how they want and I love that.
How is this a bad thing?
I see this as a good thing. Mass pvp in tab games is hell, especially for melee, since it's too easy for people to target and focus you down. You are not able to enjoy the fight since you die almost instantly.
People don’t have the dexterity for a whole lot of free aim.
So they make some up to cover up that fact, instead of admitting they need tab because they would never be able to partake in a mmo that’s predominantly free aimed abilities.
for example pull should be aimed since pulling somone in large scale fights is basiclyt 100% kill
i feel like this free aim thing needs to be debunked, action mmorpg does not mean shooter. You can use soft target and just need to be aiming generally near someone. That is base line the easiest version and than yuo tweak aoe size (if there is even a aoe) and precision of your target loc for how near you need to be near someone for your attack to go off. On top of having varying forms where its a slower moving projectile or a homing projectile (if homing as long as you attacked during the lock on it will home towards the target)
It doesn't get any easier than that as we are talking about hybrid. And requires addition effort, skill and tracking (no where near the lvl of a FPS)
I'm sure some might be worried about this but I genuinely don't think it's as hard as they fear. Most people already keep control of their camera as they play in tab systems, altering their play so they are also keeping the center of their camera on what they are looking isn't taxing.
I know some fear adding aiming means they need to be able to 360 no scope to play the game and that isn't the case. Yes, if you die in one hit, the person who can put their curser on the target first wins but that's not how MMOs play. The longer the ttk, the less important that initial hit is.
Basic aiming be hard since some of these old school followers are like 50 lmao.
You just don’t like the side the skill is on. Tab target is about mentally preparing for any situation that arises and being ready to counter it, action is more about the decisions made right there in that moment.
Personally I find the tab target to be a much. Much deeper skill system. The way that you described Tab target systems, like some noob killing you because he’s locked to cast spells, it almost makes me think you have never played a Tab target PVP system in an MMORPG before.
Not trying to be a jerk but some of the points you mentioned are just not realistic unless it’s the worst tab target system ever. But I heard that Throne and Liberty had reworked its combat system.
That isn't true action has everything TAB has on preparing, decision, etc because you literally just make the abilities work the same... but you need to target your enemy, and position is more important on top of it.
This idea tab does things action doesn't is debunked easily when
1. You read off both abilities and they do the exact same thing showing there is in difference between abilities and in turn the depth of game play.
2. Argument becomes about what is easier to use in fights and there isn't a argument you can make for tab since all you have to do is have someone selected and use your rotations while being in range of them. Even when going of large aoes that still takes more skill than tab lock and skill rotate. And you aren't even getting into the discussion on small cones, aoe sizes, or soft lock which only targets one person (0 difference from tab in how it targets one person but you need to follow and track them so some extent)
3. The extra loop added in with action needing to be camera facing and targeting your enemy being he only addition on top of action combat showing it has not just the depth of how abilities work but other skill elements on top of it.
Every time argument boils down as a response with either action is only large aoes or action can't have as many skills. Both which are completely false you can have as many skills with action as you want. You can have action without large aoes or aoes at all using softlock.
It does, people think free aiming is the boogeyman and it isn’t.
Shit just learning how to screen center and most people would dramatically improve.
At this point people just love bad faith.