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Summoner (Necromancer specifically) class discussion.
Pedwin
Member
Hey, not to be a pest, I'm reaching out as someone who has been following for a while now. One of the things that most excites me about this game is the rich diversity of class options. The class most sticking out to me being the summoner, and then the necromancer sub-class. My question is regarding this game and summons (more specifically wondering how the necromancer will be handled) Will the summoner archetypes be treated like something in say Guild Wars 2? Basically, a handful of summons that just kind of float around you. Maybe more like Elder Scrolls Online? Which was more or less, ability attacks that incorporated a minion like creature in the different attack spell animations. Or will we be getting something more akin to a True Necromancer. Basically, a slow roll minion class, where you start off weak because you are just you, and then as you kill and animate (or summon) things you build your army up and grow stronger (obviously with an eventual minion cap being achieved through either a mix of a couple large creatures, or a handful of medium strength creatures, or a bunch of weaker disposable minions). Very few games have gone with a true necromancer approach on classes like this due to a variety of reasons, but as a player I find its the variation on summoner (more or less necromancer) classes the most fun. Strategizing how to send in waves of minions, keeping your own position in mind so you don't just get murked to get around them having to kill your army, it's a high-risk high-reward style of play that just isn't seen often due to the challenges developers have in balancing/coding something of that nature. But honestly, just being some self or even party buffer with a bone aesthetic or something of the sort, is a tired trope to simplify the class that's generally used. I think however the team chooses to handle things, i will love the game regardless though.
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Seems like waves would have to be an augment attached to something, like Hallowed Ground, which remains active for 30+ seconds.
The Necromancer could have a few powerful pets, or several weak pets, or a combination. Also, the pet points could be increased at the cost of making the Necromancer more weaker to attacks, or the pet points could be decreased, allowing the Necromancer to do more spell damage.
The spells for the Necromancer ranged from decay damage over time to ice spells.
Also, the Necromancer and their pets had a chance to proc a temporary pets on the killing of an enemy.
Overall the Age of Conan Necromancer was a very flexible class.
I hope the Summoner archetype in general uses a pet point system.
The only issue with the Necromancer was having pets hold agro in early game, even though there was a ability that was suppose to temporarily empower a pet to hold agro.
Like Archage, Age of Conan had a lot of good ideas, but its flaws held the game back.
" Hmmm ? Did somesay say ... ... ... Necromancer ? "
Right now, i imagine a Necromancer to be just a Summoner like every "other" Summoner Archetype either with or without a certain Subclass,
same Mechanics as all others aside from a few varying Abilities - and the "Optics" of Course will be that You use "Ghosts" as a "good" Necromancer - and undead Minions like Skeletons or Zombies as a "bad" Necromancer.
Somehow like this, i understood it.
I wonder how between like a single powerful Summon or several weaker Summons, how well the Balance of the Game will allow the Necromancer to protect him/herself.
A Skill that transfer's Damage taken directly to the Summons would be nice, in Case some agile PvP'ers can just pass the Summons and attack the Necromancer directly.
I don't even see that as overpowered, because the "Power" between the Necromancer and his Summons is still split, even if no Battle-Pet is involved.
Took the Words right out of my Mouth. I too personally hope, it will be a bit "more" than just a Replacement of every other Summoner-Archetype with a few Boney and/or Undead Looks, Models, Aestetics.
I won't complain if it should be just that in the End -> but of Course i will always hope for more - and always ask and dare the Developers to give Subclass/Second Class-Archetypes a bit more of Lore, Depth, Atmosphere and a Feeling of Immersion. 😁👍
You strike me as a kindred spirit in this matter hah. Im glad there are other necromancy die hards out there.
I completely agree that the necromancer in Age of Conan is the best made. Just because the necromancer's pets quickly ran up to the enemy and attacked him, and also quickly returned back. Each pet had a passive effect from the attack. But I didn't like the character's attacking ice magic itself. There was also black magic that poisoned and cursed the enemy. I really like the green magic of the character in GW2, but the pets are just disgusting.
Truthfully i absolutely hated the necromancer in GW2 it handled in nearly every tropey way possible to side step the potential of what the class could actually be. I remember reading on it that they did that because they just didn't want to make it too complex on the coding side and didn't have the time to dedicate to it to make sure it was balanced properly etc. So they took a lot of shortcuts, and really it felt like a fairly generic caster class, with a few built in minions that had no oomph to them. I dont want a reskinned mage with a couple of brain dead pets that rely 100% on AI to do everything. I know its asking a lot, but a system where the caster actually has a bit more input into their pets actions would be ideal, where your spells actually fit the theme of a dark caster, using elements of life sacrifice (be it yourself, an ally, or an enemy) or making weapons out of bone, all the gruesome things that people think when they think of a necromancer, not a simplified dumbed down support character (which ive seen that done before, and i hate it) or just a reskin of a generic caster (side eyes elder scrolls online. That thing is hardly a necromancer! its just a generic caster with undead animations! GW2 isn't too far off from that themselves, being only marginally better than ESO)
I have not played GW2, so I cannot comment on that game.
That is a good point. I was kind of hoping, while the Necromancer specializes in undead. The Warlock specializes in demons and the Shadowmancer deals with dark spirits, while the Shaman handles holy spirits.
Yea, generally speaking that would be a warlock for demons, and shaman for spirits as will stated
I remember when I played GW2 for a necromancer in the year 2015, they had a bug when all the summoned pets died when changing weapons or moving to another location (I don't remember exactly). They fixed this bug very quickly, literally in 1 day. But after that, the pets became 1000% dumber. Before the bug, when you start attacking the enemy, the pets immediately ran to be him, and after that bug and fix, the pets began to stand still for about 3 seconds, after they began to attack. This is still the case((. Six months later, the game was switched to a frituplay and new classes were introduced that were stronger than all vanilla classes. To buy a new addon. At the moment, playing for a necromancer with pets in pvp is impossible because they die very quickly from new classes that have AOE skills and the pets do not have time to do anything and die, the funny thing is that they are not taken into the target, they will die quickly anyway. And before this bug, you could play as a necromancer with pets and compete in pvp. It's very sad.
The best AI implementation for a necromancer is in Age of Conan. The fact is that the game had a fast running mechanic. The player could press the shift key and start a sprint on a certain stamina. As far as I remember, different classes had different amounts of stamina. A warrior has more, a magician has less. And so. The necromancer's pets also had stamina, which was spent, and so let's say their own shift key. And when you sent your skeletons to the enemy, they ran very quickly to him and back if necessary and if they had stamina left. It all looked incredibly cool, just amazing. When an army of 8 skeletons or zombies is chasing your opponent just without letting him go. Of course, they didn't hit the enemy super hard there, but you could always rely on them knowing that they would do their damage, and not stand still doing nothing and die 3-5 seconds after the start of the fight.
Yes, they just made an ice mage that way.
If you summon demons, then it's a demonologist or a warlock.
Thanks for the kind Words,
but actually - Please don't laugh at me - > i just really, really, REALLY haven't played an actually decently designed Necromancer Character anywhere in ANY Fantasy-Universe i liked or VideoGame i liked to play,
since the Expansion of Diablo Two. I kid' you not,
it's been TWENTY - FULL - YEARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Since i really last enjoyed playing a Necromancer.
The Death-Knight Class from a certain MMO named World of (WoW-Token)-Warcraft comes a little bit close, but it feels cheap and not really like a Necromancer,
because duuuh -> it is not a Necromancer, but a twitching and flinching Knight who just happens to be able to summon Undeads on his Side.
Uff. I miss the good, old Days. Part of me wonders to this Day, why i didn't became an edgy Teenager between 1995 and 2005 (<- born in 1985) and when i saw just SO. MANY. good, dark and/or edgy Fantasy-Tropes, Classes, Characters, etc.
I just miss the good, old Days. Sorry for making it sound like it is about "me",
but i think i am just like Sir Steven in that regard. I just want to relive the good, funny Days a little bit, when playing a Fantasy-Game was just SO. MUCH. FUN. !! 😁
I personally think -> the whole Stuff and Content with the whole Caravan-System, "Node-System", Siege-System, Monster-Coin-System - and much more,
is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY harder to design in a good, satisfying way - than just to design a good Summoner-Class/Specc that is designed to be a Necromancer.
Meaning, i take it easy and have full Trust in Sir Steven and his mighty Crew. If he can make such a grand, glorious Game a Reality - than making a good Necromancer-Class (Specc for the Summoner) should be easily being able to be manageable for the Intrepid-Crew as well.
You are literally in the exact same spot i am in then. I just want a well designed necromancer as well, and im tired of it being poorly done.
I really like that type of system, and not only for summoners/necromancers. It opens up so many different playstyle.
100.000% agree.
Enough "cheap, poor quality" Necromancers, Please.
It is unfathomable how VideoGames fail since Years and Years on end to deliver what others "effortlessly" delivered before.
Be it in a Hack-and-Slash like Diablo II,
or a Game like Heroes of Might and Magic Three,
there were a few Games in which Necromancy and undead Aesthetics were done just SO wonderfully beautiful, it was almost criminal when modern Games failed to re-create it.
I completely agree.
1,000% agree with you on this.
but when it is about " Necromancy " done right - and the Feeling, the Aesthetics, the Vibe and Atmosphere around this spooky, scary World between Life and Death that is the Realm of the Undead,
i think Diablo II had done it really really well -> and " ESPECIALLY " Heroes of Might and Magic Three. Maybe a bit of the later Heroes of Might and Magic Games as well, but especially the Third Game.
Doing this is not hard. Not when People know how to write, design (and program^^) a calm, stoic and melanchonic Realm of eerie Silence, dark Beauty - and the Fantasy-Vibe of the mysterious and impalpable running wild.
Similar like the Feywild - or the Hells. But not like any of them, despite those other Two Realms also being pure Fantasy and boundless in Inspiration.
Just a Realm you can barely understand even if you think You know everything about Necromancy.