Summoner (Necromancer specifically) class discussion.

Aszkalon

Pedwin wrote: »

It absolutely has been done well in the past to your point, and it's just a shame so many modern games fall flat when trying to recreate that essence of the class.

It's a Willingness-Problem in general, though.

It's not limited to Fantasy-Universe Video Games at all. You can see so many Companies fail time and time again to deliver good Games which are actually Fun and which Players really enjoy to play,


because many of them became Micro-transaction and Shop-Article addicted and the " Game " is only second in Priority to them.

One Exception above all other Games than can be seen as Exceptions against this disgusting Greed,

is Baldurs Gate Three.
The best DnD Game since forever, for every Lover of turn-based Fantasy Games. While in that Game, Necromancy is not so much in the Focus,

it broke Limits and became a Blockbuster. The first Priority was Love and the Desire to make the Game as beautiful and perfect as possible in their limited Area's in which the Storyline plays out.
( Part One, Two - and Three )


This is " NOT " hard.

Not when People know what they are doing and "love" what they are doing and want to see it succeed.

It didn't became harder from 2015 to make good Video Games.
It is just that so many People, Companies and Developers, become so dispassionate, lazy and greedy, that it took a SERIOUS blow to their Competence.


And it makes Sense - does it not ?
How can someone expect Competence from Someone who became a crooked Mix between lazy Bungler and fullblown Crook ?


The Gollum-Game from 2023 -> is an absolute Scam and Insolence.

The "Starfield"-Game from Bethesda, is such hot-smoking Garbage of Woke'ness that many Players can only endure it with Modifications that take things like "Pronouns" and other Crap away.

" Aliens Colonial " Marines was the cheekiest, most brazen and most insolent Scam in the whole Video Game History of Xenomorph-Aliens versus Marines from the Alien Universe.


But more so than Incompetence -> i see an outright REFUSAL of Companies and their Developers, to make a good Game.

When Developers start to "talk Trash and Smack" about their Customers. About their Playerbase. About their "Fan's" of the Fantasy-Universes their Games play in,

or even the same but about "MOVIES" like Lord of the Rings and other Franchises,


then i don't see just Incompetence. I see an obstinate, recalcitrant Intractability to " ACTUALLY " do a good Job at what they are doing.


And such People don't deserve Money. They deserve going broke and being bought up by other Companies and Publishers.


Sadly to many Video Gamers have the Willpower of a Drug-Addict in Withdrawl. They get baited with another, cheap Promise and Shot of Dopamine from a VideoGame - which then turns out to be the next Disappointment, after Disappointment, after Disappointment, after Disappointment ... ... 😅 . 😅 . 😅



I saw a few People complain about the Fact, that Sir Steven Sharif seems to be kinda a Perfectionist.

They nagged and whined about the Fact, that Ashes of Creation takes so long, to come out.
Said Stuff like it takes to 2030 or 2035 and how they can't wait to see their Grandchildren play it - and so on.


Thanks the GODS and the Others for Sir Steven being such a Perfectionist.

He and his mighty Crew are not designing a single Player.
Not just a simply Multiplayer Game either.

They design an "MMORPG". A Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game.

If you design such a thing -> and do "NOT" aim to make it as good as possible -> You might as well right away throw all the Money you needed "AND" your Lifetime you needed to develop the Game, right into the Trashcan.

And from what i observed, Sir Steven and his fellow Developers are not planning on doing that.

AgniaR

Greetings! Nice to read this topic. I would really like to see a necromancer damage dealer. In the preliminary class table he was listed as a healer. It is very strange. How can the Lord of the Dead heal living characters? His prerogative is to kill, curse, probably (?) drain life.

Depraved

AgniaR wrote: »

Greetings! Nice to read this topic. I would really like to see a necromancer damage dealer. In the preliminary class table he was listed as a healer. It is very strange. How can the Lord of the Dead heal living characters? His prerogative is to kill, curse, probably (?) drain life.

I think necro was summoner/cleric, so not a healer main. anyways, necros could be good at preventing death too? not just resurrecting things that have died. but that would be a stretch I guess.

Solmyr

Here are some things about Summoners and Necromancers from the Wiki:

• Up to three summons.
• Your minions aren't autonomous. Their abilities are represented on your hotbar, you control them directly.
• You have the ability to split incoming damage with your summons.
• You have the ability to split outgoing threat with your summons.
• Multiple summoners can work together to summon a miniboss during seiges.
• Summons aren't temporary. They stick around until they are killed, or the player logs off.
• Summons will have some crowd control abilities.
• Your race, your subclass, and optional cosmetics will influence the appearance of your summons
• There are good and evil Necromancers. Evil Necromancers summon zombies, skeletons, and other undead. Good Necromancers summon spirits
• Corpse reanimation is a maybe.
• Summons may be able to be customized via a modified character creator.

And here are some quotes on the topic from Steven:

I view the Necromancer as a master of life and death and the way I want to implement our Necromancer is you can choose to be a Necromancer for good or Necromancer for dark and twisted things. Either is viable. If you want to work with spirits that aid you can do that. If you want to summon zombies and skeletons and other type of undead creatures you can do that as well; and then you can use them for your will.

The necromancer is going to be able to choose the path of life or death with regards to its summoning influences and augments. So you'll be able to augment your summons to either aid and assist in healing and providing support to either yourself or the other summons you may have out or other party members; and the death side of that augmentation will really influence your opponent to create damage, to sap life, to manipulate their ability to survive in combat.

Aszkalon

AgniaR wrote: »

I would really like to see a necromancer damage dealer. In the preliminary class table he was listed as a healer. It is very strange.

How can the Lord of the Dead heal living characters? His prerogative is to kill, curse, probably (?) drain life.

Second Archetype/Sublass is Cleric, right ?
I guess this is why a Summoner mixed with it, can cast some Heals.

Although i wouldn't dare to go so far as to guess he can heal as well as a full Cleric, or a Bard or other supporting Class. Or maybe Bard and Summoner are the only Support-Classes ? Damn i realise once again my Knowledge is laughable.

Dripyula

AgniaR wrote: »

How can the Lord of the Dead heal living characters? His prerogative is to kill, curse, probably (?) drain life.

As the D&D community once said " Necromancers... are just very late healers. "

Solvryn

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

Finov

Solvryn wrote: »

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

I would like more combat spells. I really want to shoot green balls with a black trail.
Tired of DOT

willsummon

If you like DIablo II Necromancer, which was decent. Check out the Grim Dawn Necromancer

Finov wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

I would like more combat spells. I really want to shoot green balls with a black trail.
Tired of DOT

Well, having a spell that sends a fiery green ball with a scream human skull in it towards an enemy would be cool.

The reason for DOT spells with Necromancers is that DOT could be view as a form of decay spell. As in death and decay.

Solvryn

Finov wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

I would like more combat spells. I really want to shoot green balls with a black trail.
Tired of DOT

We already have burst healing spells present in the cleric. It makes more sense for Necromancer to havre more dots/hots present.

Finov

Solvryn wrote: »

Finov wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

I would like more combat spells. I really want to shoot green balls with a black trail.
Tired of DOT

We already have burst healing spells present in the cleric. It makes more sense for Necromancer to havre more dots/hots present.

I want to have a burst of damage in combination with pets. So is heal. And DOT damage/heal too

Finov

willsummon wrote: »

If you like DIablo II Necromancer, which was decent. Check out the Grim Dawn Necromancer

Finov wrote: »

Solvryn wrote: »

I would love to see the Necromancer cast life-stealing Damage Over Time (DOT) spells on enemies, which then return health as Heal Over Time (HOT) effects on allies. In Asheron's Call, there was a skill called Drain Health that worked just as it sounds—you drained health from enemies to heal yourself. This mechanic would make the Necromancer an interesting counterpart to the Cleric class, providing built-in anti-healing capabilities.

I would like more combat spells. I really want to shoot green balls with a black trail.
Tired of DOT

Well, having a spell that sends a fiery green ball with a scream human skull in it towards an enemy would be cool.

The reason for DOT spells with Necromancers is that DOT could be view as a form of decay spell. As in death and decay.

not necessarily even a skull. Just a simple green ball looks better.

ItsNoGood

lol Diep.io has the best necromancer gameplay for the "starting weak but slowly building an army then becoming op" class fantasy

Nightmarelol

Diablo's Necromancer had some great ideas behind the class (basically i think Diablo is what brought Necromancer to the light of potentials in games adding a class designed around this)

Diablo 2 / Diablo 3 / Diablo 4's Necromancer
- Bone spells
- Blood spells
- Shadow spells
- Summons and Minions

WoW's Demonology Warlock
- Summoning Demonic pets
- Controlling strong Demonic minions
- Plus your standard shadow/fel moves

I think if AOC take some of the great ideas behind these classes/specs (even just the good ones) and incooperate that into Necromancer / Shadowmancer, we could be seeing something amazing here ☠️