Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
I'm not convinced you've been to London, or been wind-surfing, or that you've eaten Unagi. OK, now that we're done making baseless speculations, I was in the last part of the beta testing for New World, and played for a couple of months post launch. I then returned briefly when I had a few people tell me that some of the "improvements" that had been made, had a significant effect on the quality of the game.
New World was a bitter disappointment. One that can best be highlighted by the fact that even the Alpha 1 build of AoC was more enjoyable than the launch version of New World.
Erm, no. In future it's probably best you avoid trying to tell people what they are saying, as you seem to have missed the point.
What I was pointing out, is the fact that there are already effective systems used by other MMO's to prevent heavy exploitation of open world quests, chest etc.
The devs haven't specified the damage amounts/percentage as yet, so for all we know, some reward/quest credit may be possible for players who are part of a zerg group. They also haven't as yet discussed the specifics in regards to locking certain open world quests to not allow players to progress if they're part of a raid. That's going to be important as damage done as part of a raid or group, will likely be credited evenly to all who are part of it.
Erm, not necessarily. If the chest in question is part of a quest, or content that is supposed to be a group quest, but there aren't sufficient mechanics in place to try and prevent players from using a raid size group, or a giant zerg train to clear the content, then it is very much just as necessary to try and protect it from being exploited.
Saying there are other ways to stop something has absolutely nothing to do what so ever in suggesting Raid groups and chest runs are tied together in new world when there is 0 coloration in how the game works. As you don't need to be in a group to loot a chest. Hense why i said its a terrible point.
You suggesting he devs can do things to prevent chest runs but doing completely different systems is very obvious devs can do anything. Again that has nothing to do with using Narc saying look at these raid groups running chest and than saying raid groups will be a issue because of that example with new world. Mean while you can do the exact same thing SOLO or with a pair and regardless group STATUS does not affect anything you can loot it regaurdless.
.... I literally gave you a quote from the devs with values and than you say they haven't said it...This is the issue when people just regurgitate things from content creators not every take a streamer has is going to be perfect....
Nothing stop you from running in the world in a zerg, that doesn't mean its going to be efficient if you are waiting for everyone to get credit for mob kills. If 50 people decide to all do the same quest that is no different than any other mmorpg. Based on the game there is going to be a lot more people running around since there are no shards.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Looting
This is getting into a different topic at the moment and you are missing the original point. "Using zergs in new world looting chest is a BAD example because group / raid placement is not a factor as you don't need to be in a raid or group to loot chest.
If your issue is with people zerging content in the game SAY THAT don't use new world chest looting as an example. Yes people can zerg content that doesn't mean they will get loot unless they are going to try to track their dmg and only do enough to not get credit somehow coordinating between a zerg... It is one of Narc's weaker points since he didn't acknowledged the looting table rule sets.
Hint new world didn't have this (you only need to hit a mob once for credit) and as you said devs and figure out things to help reduce it, they literarily already have...
Cool. Except I didn't say that you need to be in a group to loot a chest. Hence why I suggest again that you should probably avoid trying to speak on behalf of other people, you're not doing a particularly good job at it. Or even just reading what I wrote.
My comments were related to the fact that content that may have been intended to be completed by a group, or by a solo player, be that a quest, or a special loot item, etc, can and will be exploited if there aren't mechanics in place to try and prevent it.
We have had this little chat about you attempting to tell people what they were saying, haven't we?
Not sure why you're still hung up on Narc, you seem a bit upset. My agreement was with his general point that without sufficient mechanics in place to prevent exploitations, then exploitations will be rampant.
No one said otherwise. The point was, and still is, that any possible challenge that certain content may have been designed to pose to a solo player, or small group, is quickly destroyed if there aren't systems in place to stop players from either creating a raid, or a giant zerg ball to steam-roll through that encounter. That mentality breeds a habit for players where some will actively look to use that tactic to breeze through as much content as possible, whilst other players who may ordinarily not have looked to use that as a means of clearing it, will feel as though they are falling behind, and start to use it as well.
You gave a quote of what they are currently looking at. Now setting aside the fact that literally every time Steven shows new content, or discusses features of the game, he makes it painfully clear that everything is subject to change, as this is still a game in Alpha development, if you knew even the slightest thing about game development, you'd know that this is common. It's not a given until it's baked in, and even then, it could still change down the line.
Except, it is different, if there aren't systems in place (such as in WoW, and Lotro) where the person/group who tags the mob or triggers the quest dialogue first, gets the credit. Yes, there will be lots of people running around, but random groups typically aren't going to use their time attacking some other player/groups targets if they're not going to get credit for it. Which then discourages the potential for those mindless zergs on quest mobs, if they're already tagged to another group.
Sigh. I made the original post. You replied to it. You don't determine what the original point was. We've talked about this, haven't we.
For what is not the first, and sadly, unlikely to be the last time, no one is saying you have to be in a raid to loot it. If you're going to invent arguments for the sake of arguing, maybe save those for the voices in your head.
Lord, give me strength.
It is what I've been saying. Multiple times. At this point I get the feeling that even cue cards wouldn't be sufficient to help you understand what has been written in plain English.
Ok, we get it, you're a big fan of New World. That's cool. To each their own.
To be clear though, New World is being used as an example because it is a terribly made game, that lacks many of the normal control systems you would expect to see in an MMO. Or at least one that hasn't been rushed out the door as a half baked concept.
You are agree with narc about raid groups in new world (which were not actually raid groups) looting chest when i said it was a bad comparison. You're the one to choose to argue it was a good example so it is what you are saying as you are defending that point.
I think you are missing the point again that I have made and talking about getting hung up on things when the point was about that. Again content creators can make bad takes as well u don't need to defend every word they say.
Please don't talk to me about game development -smh-. Also stop trying to get away from the fact there was a quote that directly counters that whole point by saying its not final. You effectively are trying to derail by saying nothing matters until the game launches so no points or quotes have any weight.
Again you are talking about credit for mobs while there is a quote already, blindly trying to ignore information on that game sounds pretty silly. Its not hard to say you missed that there is a lot of information on AoC i don't expect anyone to know everything...
I made a post on your post and you replied to my part about Narc having a bad take with his example so yes i get to decide.
Honestly at this point going through your post you are reaffirming my point about you not understanding things + following Narcs take without understanding. If this was true you would see zergs in BDO all attacking mobs and farming zones easy, or any other game.
To some this up you are refusing to acknowledge you replied to my comment about narcs take being bad, do to AoC already having a looting right system. And basing your argument as if that doesn't "exist" in AoC because its a alpha....
Just in case this reaches a Dev who is not familiar, in nearly every situation where the loot is good in BDO and it doesn't have the restrictions being 'talked about' here, this is actually exactly what happens.
So, actually, it is true, and it absolutely does happen in BDO, BDO just doesn't care.
This is not true (unless BDO has changed in the recent years) attacking a mob only gives rights to one person / group who does the most dmg. Tagging a mob does not give you rights for loot.
This is why in BDO people go in different rotations and will flag / guild dec people messing with their rotation.
If you are proof the game has changed from how it has been for many many years you are free to share it though with proper context. Because than you would be arguing BDO should no longer be labeled as a solo mmorpg if anyone can get credit for tagging a mob.
Understood, I'll clarify further just in case.
In the context of this discussion where Pokkitt is talking about chest opening, quest clearing, etc, the equivalent things in BDO (event mobs, field and world bosses, sea monsters, some other related quest things), this happens almost immediately.
To the point where you can use it to predict economic flows, and the Devs use it to outright manipulate them. I hope that's clearer. If you give people a Quest to kill world boss Nouver for a certain event period, during that event period, Nouver is zerged so hard that I have seen it be downed in 22 seconds.
The result is a massive increase in Nouver sub-weapons on Auction since aside from the top 10 or so damage dealers in the fight, everyone has a separate 'roll' for whether or not they get the box.
BDO can manage this because most of the things they do it for are not persistent like the Commissions board would be, but they do have content like that. The simple outcome is that people do group up and zerg through that content so quickly that the value of anything from it drops instantly.
Occasionally they make what I consider a 'mistake' and make that content type able to drop 'Gold Bars' which can be converted directly to ingame currency. This results in hyperinflation until someone fixes it (and hopefully scolds whoever put a currency faucet on a repeatable non-event).
Thank you, Mag, for reminding me to be more explicit in making sure people understand.
World bosses getting zerged is pretty much expected, but that does not equal to killing base mobs which is my point. The money made from bosses does not equal to the money made from grinding and getting 1 bill+ a hour in gold. A nouver is pocket change compared to actual grinding spots as the Price to buy one is a faction of what people actually make in gold as they grind.
Also there is intention for the boss to be zerged and killed design wise. Where when we are talking about new world to AoC for looting chest it can be done with 2 people. 1 to pull aggro one to loot the chest. The raid group example is not really relevant in that game as it doesn't really change anything.
To be extra clear i have no issue with people viewing zerging as a potential issue as I've said already using new world is a bad example with chest runs. Because looting chest is not tied to raid / group and has nothing to do with it as its designed as a casual system for a casual game.
Besides the chest if we are talking about bosses in the world in New world you get loot by just tagging the boss once, where AoC you need to do a certain % of dmg to get loot and only one person gets it. So comparing a game designed for casual where everyone gets loot to a game that has more clearly rule sets sounds silly like someone missed a point about the AoC (which is fair).
Hence the next argument would be would zerg groups be willing to do things even though none of them are getting gear. Does one one person / group getting gear enough to stop as many zergs from happening to clear content mixed with Is saying they have anti zerg skill abilities and the xp / gear repair cost mixed with that.
Did... did you just forget altogether that we are talking about a Commissions board?
Il just repeat the core of this whole thing was the comment on new chest run being bad example as well as new world in general for a bunch of reasons including tagging requiring a 50% done.
If you don't want to interact with that part that is fine but this was the discussion.
YOU were the person who brought up the chests, Mag!
You built three separate strawmen to pretend-argue with, all the while Pokkitt was asking you 'what are you even doing?'
If you want to argue with your strawmen, do it in your own head please.
....Please watch Narcs video if you don't understand what is going on here.
Assume I won't.
I needed to deliver some information to devs in the tiny chance that they didn't have it. I did so. You can make a post with Narc's video and do an in-depth reaction for them based on your perceptions of... what other people are challenging... or something.
Or you can assume they'll watch it and understand what you meant. If that's the case, then my contribution won't matter and you can ignore it.
one thing to note is that i think its fine to copy other game systems. devs shouldn't care about people that "ohhh so basically that game, no originality". to be fair other games copied their systems from somewhere, and they did somewhere else etc.. so totally do copy if its good (cuz its not copy). Sometimes u come up with the idea originally through inspiration (like all other ideas) but sitll get called out for copying other when u actually didnt. it just happens that they saw something else do tht same thing before u. do please share this. i do genuinely believe this adventurer guild tavern system is good for the game
video:
Erm, no. At no point did I say that my agreement was specifically to do with New World raid groups. My agreement with Narc, was, and still is, the fact that a game that lacks systems to prevent zerg mentality, will result in a number of players simply exploiting systems to grind through it as quickly as they can. I'm not sure how much clearer that needs to be spelt out for you.
No, this is the result of you failing (repeatedly) to grasp what was actually being said, and then deciding to make that the basis of your argument. You are the forum equivalent of the crazy guy on the subway, shouting at his shoes.
Sigh. To be clear, you replied to my post. You miss-interpreted what I was saying, and then attempted to create an argument from that. You don't determine the point of my posts. That's not how this works.
No one said they are perfect. Once again you are inventing arguments for the sake of having something to argue about.
You might need to shake your head a little bit more, clearly some additional blood flow is required.
That's not "trying to get away from", it's pointing out the very real fact that Mr Steven Sharif, you know, the boss man in charge of this project, has said, and continues to say that this is all work in progress, and anything could be subject to change. That is common for any game in development, particularly in Alpha, and is extremely relevant when discussing systems still being built.
No. I'm using those as examples of systems that work in other games. I honestly don't understand how you are unable to comprehend that.
No. My original reply to your criticism of Narc, was to tell you we would have to "agree to disagree" on that. Something that you clearly have failed to grasp the meaning of.
Yes....I'm the one who is not understanding things. -_________-
No, I'm very much acknowledging that I replied to your response to my original comment. You simply have a breathe-taking ability to look at a simple comment, and construct your own alternate reality out of it, complete with pointless arguments.
A looting system that is not only still in development, but is also tied to their quests/raids, and for which they asked us to give feedback/suggestions on.
This game currently doesn't 'exist'. It is an incomplete project, one that we are all following and trying to provide feedback on, in the hopes of helping the developers create a game that avoids some of the same mistakes that other game developers have made in the past.
Now with that said, if you are unable to grasp these very simple points, I'm going to have to assume you are either deliberately trolling, or you are someone who doesn't speak English as a first language and is relying on running these comments through an online translator, which would explain these circular conversations.
Regardless of the reason, if you have somehow, once again managed to miss these easy to understand points, then that is on you. I have wasted far more time than I should have by having this (repeated) conversation, and I see no reason to waste any more time on it. Be my guest and go shout at the sky if you feel the need to perpetuate these arguments any further.
The old quests should remain stored in the character history summarized is a book.
These books could be shared with alts when they level up to help them level faster, if the same story was already experienced.
Maybe players could store these books in public libraries and let other players visit and read. Or these books could increase the power of some buildings in the node, specific to the node type the story is linked to.