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My PvX != Your PvX
chibibree
Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Basis: I prefer PvE over PvP so, in my mind, I'd like to see more balance between the systems.
Is this a fantasy, yes. I know logically that PvX for Ashes consists of a blend, a mixture if you will, of both elements. Therefore, I think that when some of us say "Ashes isn't really PvX", what we mean is that it isn't what we would think PvX would be (Equal measure of both in my opinion).
Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!
All in all, I'm just trying to say that I think PvX can be considered more of a spectrum where some of us like the (in my opinion) PvP heavy version of PvX and I'm sure there are some that prefer a more PvE heavy version of PvX.
I plan to play Ashes all the same, but I had seen this topic floating around and wanted to discuss it, or share my thoughts.
Is this a fantasy, yes. I know logically that PvX for Ashes consists of a blend, a mixture if you will, of both elements. Therefore, I think that when some of us say "Ashes isn't really PvX", what we mean is that it isn't what we would think PvX would be (Equal measure of both in my opinion).
Do I want PvE only servers? No. I enjoy the risks that come with the PvP Systems in mind. Will I need a group of friends to play with because (even though I'm complimented for living in the Caravan stream) I'm a big scaredy cat when it comes to PvP? Absolutely!
All in all, I'm just trying to say that I think PvX can be considered more of a spectrum where some of us like the (in my opinion) PvP heavy version of PvX and I'm sure there are some that prefer a more PvE heavy version of PvX.
I plan to play Ashes all the same, but I had seen this topic floating around and wanted to discuss it, or share my thoughts.
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PS: If we happen to play on the same server, count on me to assist you and Virtek in securing that household or tavern land plot.
https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
If traditional herb/rock gathering was too contentious or competitive I may focus trees and explore ship building possibilities.
If all this is still too steeped in PvP for my liking I would run for mayor as a last ditch effort lol.
The most PvP heavy concepts I can think of now besides a Zerg guild would be militaristic node into bounty hunting and or caravan sieges while having a heavy focus on combat progression. Identify the highest paying materials on market and use my corruption cooldowns to actively farm those gatherers in those areas for quick payouts if I can identify common path routes common along side progression content like commissions.
Everyone has a different comfortability with varying levels of risk which will influence pleasure or anxiety. The question I an eager to see answer during alpha, beta and release, is what balance of each type of person does Ashes need to succeed long term.
So yes, PvX is a spectrum, but the individual perception range of it is a MUCH wider spectrum than the actual PvE/PvP balance if you look at cold, hard data like time spent against the environment and time spent actually fighting another player in a given game session or gameplay loop.
Consider a dungeon run. You've spent almost an hour getting into a good spot, maybe taken down one boss and working on the next. Along comes another group and kills your group in 3 minutes. That's a PvX experience of 95% PvE and 5% PvP, so waaay on the PvE side of things. But I know several people who won't feel that way. They'll feel the PvP side of things weighs much heavier than the 5% it actually was. And that's fine, I understand that. It just makes it difficult to quantify when discussing it
Will there be PvP settings where the rest of the world cant just jump in and screw with it (even randomly/spur of the moment) at any given moment?
Like sieges? Battlegrounds?
Will there be PvE settings where the rest if the world just cant jump in and screw with it?
Like raids and dungeons and farming areas?
Now looking at that - do players get any reward whatsoever (items, money, leaderboards, standings, mounts, outfits, titles) from the sterilized/instanced pvp settings? If so, PvE and all its aspects need the same... if its actually PvX.
As such, its mostly a PvP dominant game. Very cool with me. Stating "PvX" tho is a marketing ploy.
We most definitely do. Dygz on one end, Neuro the other, and me in the middle. I don't think it as simple as saying you spent 90% of your time getting somewhere and 10% getting killed by another group means it is a 90/10 balance. That is one way to look at it. But I don't think it means very much to most players.
I agree! Lots of unique perceptions when it comes to these things. I also prefer PvE.
Also, heck yeah! The Golden Feather Tavern will be up and running in no time!
I actually made an image for where things stand in my mind:
PvX is about the interdependency of PvE and PvP and the artisan skills, etc.
Sieges will likely be instanced in some way. Magic firewall, teleporting non-participants out, something. But sieges will likely have guards, so they won't be purely PvP events and preparing for sieges will likely be very PvE heavy. During the siege event it's mostly PvP hopefully, but not 100% because of the guards. Sieges still fall under the PvX umbrella.
Same goes for the caravans, except I suspect most caravan runs will be 100% PvE with phat bonuses for the driver.
I think only arenas are purely PvP, where no monsters can interrupt, and the only pure PvE without anyone else to disrupt is likely inside instanced story dungeons/areas (and whatever you can do inside your house). Both gameplay loops give rewards.
Everything else is a potential mix (aka potentially PvX) where you can interact both with players and the environment in some sort of adversarial way. They shouldn't be separated, because that's the whole point of the game. Calling it PvX is not a marketing ploy, it's a specific playstyle and way of looking at the game.
Unless Ashes becomes a game where you spend over 50% of the game session actively fighting other players, it's not a PvP dominant game. But I understand for some people, the mere potential for PvP will make it feel that way, because it occupies their head 100% of the time.
I think its going to be very different than what I am used to and I am pretty excited for that. Do I wish there were more PvE specific things? Yes, but still excited to try everything out.
@Fantmx That is a great perspective! I also like the way you guys have your differing opinions
I agree. Looking purely at time spent isn't what makes sense for most players
Great image Chibi, for illustrating the point. We categorize things very differently. For me, only arenas are pure PvP, because monsters can't interfere. Naval content, sieges, caravans, and even guild wars, fall into the PvX category for me, so in there with the dungeons and world bosses.
The potential for PvP doesn't make the whole thing PvP. I really think that is the major divide for a lot of people. Because it should go both ways then. If there is even a chance of a monster encounter in arena fighting, does that make it a PvE event? Same logic.
Edit: Actually, sieges and caravans should probably go in the middle, since they also have major economic gameplay relevance.
Edit2: I would put "Being a gatherer" in the middle too and remove the whole farming bosses as a master gatherer thing.
Like, what is Ashes missing in that part of the design?
That's a good idea!
Things that have been weighing on me as of late are my love for more difficult dungeons but am not sure how that will play out for Ashes. I like harder Raids and more difficulty, etc. Just not sure how that will work with PvP being able to interfere. I wish there were more of an equal balance to instanced and non-instanced raids as well, but that is another thing I'll have to experience as well.
Steven said there'll be super hard encounters in the game. It's just that majority of them won't be instanced.
What I'm saying is, don't say that the pve:pvp ratio is off. Simply say you want more instanced pve content. That way everyone will understand your point better and everyone will make their own judgement on that point.
It just is going to add another element you aren't familiar with atm, but with the right group I believe you will find enjoyable. Doing a hard encounter, while keeping your head on a swivel is even more rewarding and enjoyable when you finish it!
https://youtube.com/@TheHiddenDaggerInn
And that is what I'm hoping for haha which is why I keep saying, I will see in game. It is just a really new concept for me and I'm not sure how overwhelming it will be.
The only instanced pvp is arenas and sieges. Sieges are once a month (and we got no clue how often Node sieges will be), so ratio-wise, there's gonna be waaaaay more open world pvp/x than instanced stuff.
In other words, pvp might have a worse ratio than 80/20, when it comes to open world vs instanced.
Yeah, we don't know how those hardcore encounters will be designed, but there's multiple ways of addressing the scale of pvxness in any given encounter and I'd expect Intrepid to use at least a few of those.
1,000,000%.
While my chronic Concentration Disorder hurts my Head when i look at a few Parts of this, well done.
I don't imagine things there, right ?
" Killing the Gatherer " ? ^.^
So People actually no Problem to admit that most PvP-Action " WILL " be the Role of the classic Highwaymen.
Or of a Pirate. >;-)
As I understood, PvX in AOC means the stakes involve mostly PvP but PvP is strictly regulated by a corruption system to leave room for PvE.
Their cross-over between PvP and Economy is the Killing The Gatherer.
Their "PvP-action" itself is Arenas, Sieges, Caravans, Guild Wars, Naval.
Although, I'd probably put Caravans in the cross-over between PvP and Economy, too.
How so, if i may ask ?
Any Bandit, Highwayman, Ganker or whatever else for Playerkiller, can just try to ambush and murder You for parts of your gathered Ingredients and Ressources inside your Pockets, right ?
Sure, he/she gets Corruption for it - but that doesn't make innocent Gatherers immune from being robbed.