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What is everyone opinion on the gaming forcing you into grouping for content?

135

Comments

  • bigepeenbigepeen Member
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    The game shouldn't "force" players to do or not do anything.

    I am quite confident neither You or me will be able to beat a World Boss completely One-on-One, no matter how much we have maxed out our Characters or how legendary our Gear will be, though. ;)

    So what would that " force " us to, if we want to take down said World Boss in Question ? ;)

    True, but I guess we have different definitions for "force". For example, as a lvl 10 character, you are not forced to first lvl up before fighting a lvl 60 mob, but you are encouraged to do so unless you want to die to it repeatedly. Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish. However, there should not be any hard limits on them trying to access such content, which is what I meant by forced.
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    The game shouldn't "force" players to do or not do anything.

    I am quite confident neither You or me will be able to beat a World Boss completely One-on-One, no matter how much we have maxed out our Characters or how legendary our Gear will be, though. ;)

    So what would that " force " us to, if we want to take down said World Boss in Question ? ;)

    True, but I guess we have different definitions for "force". For example, as a lvl 10 character, you are not forced to first lvl up before fighting a lvl 60 mob, but you are encouraged to do so unless you want to die to it repeatedly. Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish. However, there should not be any hard limits on them trying to access such content, which is what I meant by forced.

    This, basically?

    The game types that this is close to, so far, mostly force players to group for efficient progression. And looking at their current PvE probably not even that (which should probably be ignored, I know, but they said something recently that makes me think maybe PvE feedback is back on the menu).

    There are definitely design reasons why I can see it not turning out that way in the long term, but there's a difference between 'soloable' in the sense of 'I can progress, the game has given me enemies to cut down by myself that are also innately nearly as rewarding as grouping', and 'I could spend 5 minutes killing this one mob because it's challenging and fun but my actual progression rate from doing that is maybe 1/6th of what I'd get in a proper group.

    Are we considering it 'forced' just because progression is 'the point'? Because if not, then there's no reason the game has to 'force' grouping. Just make a solo build and solo everything.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Should we say 'rewards grouping' rather than 'forces grouping'?
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    tautau wrote: »
    Should we say 'rewards grouping' rather than 'forces grouping'?

    RING DING DING DING !!! :mrgreen: The better Phrasing we so desperately need/want. (lol)
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You will be able to solo in this game. Some classes/specs will do this better then others. The fact you need to team to get the good stuff done, including getting matts and crafting done. Makes me thrilled. I'm sick of playing games with harmonized classes that don't need anyone and any class can fill any spot on a team. I love that classes will be needed to support other classes play style. My first MMO loves were EQ1 and DAoC. I have been waiting for a game like Ashes for a very long time.
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Group or die. No force necessary.

    It’s trying to be a social game and that’s precisely why a lot of people are drawn to it. Now maybe it’s just an attempt to relive the so-called glory days, which had its own level of jankiness, but there’s faith that players will embrace that.

    And if you don’t want a social game, then you can try to solo as best you can. Just don’t expect them to sacrifice the social game for the solo game. There are more than enough solo games to play.

    I wouldn’t worry. The nature of social games is that there are some periods where the group can’t get together and some degree of solo play is in order. Ideally there should be enough content for each style, but I think they are expending far more calories on the social play. However there are also ways to make the group up dynamic seamless. I think we’ve seen examples of that in the events showcase plus other opportunities to join in the fun.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish.

    This is one of the unsung benefits of level cap increases.

    In most games that add a full level cap increase (10 levels as opposed to 5), when you hit that new level cap, a lot of the raid content from the last level cap becomes group content, and a lot of the group content becomes solo content. It isn't unheard of to see a very good solo player taking on some raid content in some situations.

    Soloing easier raid level world bosses from the previous level cap (so between 4 and 6 levels below the current player level cap) was - for a while - one of my favorite down time activities in EQ2.
  • I think its really great. Most games are made too much for everyone. I get that people want to solo, and thats ok - solo should be an option. But it should never be a way to go straight into endgame. Grouping should always yield more XP and items than solo. If you cater to much to solo, some classes gets left behind, unless you plan everyone to be a solo class. Grouping is where the real challenge lies. Bosses can be harder etc.

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    It's like playing a musical instrument.

    Playing by yourself simply requires practice.
    Playing in a group requires additional patience, coordination, teamwork, communication, and more.

    I always found playing in the group to be more rewarding. Playing music by myself was enjoyable, but being part of the bigger group enabled me to be part of something bigger and more impressive.

    I see the same with MMOs.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 5
    Well.. it's not quite like that because in MMORPGs doing activities with other players is not exactly the same thing as being in a Group.
    Being in a Group might be more rewarding. But, the "reward" isn't always of primary interest. And sometimes it's still fun to do stuff even without any other reward.
    In EQ, I used to love healing and bestowing Spirit of the Wolf on other players even when I was not in a Group - for no other rewards besides the joy of helping other players for a moment.

    I think most of us agree that Ashes should follow the original design of typical gameplay being balanced for an 8-person Group.
    That's still not the same thing as being forced to be in an 8-person Group.

    We can't solo a Node. That's not the same thing as being forced into Grouping.

    Grouping providing more xp and rewards encourages players to Group. It doesn't force players to Group.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    i dont think people are forced to group. the right word would be encouraged.

    you could play solo 24/7, and just farm something you can get by yourself, sell it, and buy the things you cant get by yourself.

    id say forcing is more like when you cant enter a dungeon if you don't have a minimum of 3 players, and then you cant buy the loot from other players and the only way you can get it is by doing the dungeon yourself.
  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 7
    Already going in with a group of friends and recruiting on the side, so I do not fear this at all.

    I can see where a solo player entering by themself would have worry or concerns.... but that comes with playing an mmo.
  • ExiledByrdExiledByrd Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't think AoC will have much if any content that you can be successful at solo. Open world PvP will make questing, farming and gathering much safer in a group than solo. Ganking the previous people will be easier with a couple of friends as well.

    You need a Freehold to be a successful processor, and you could lose it in a node war.

    Crafting will need materials from convoys, but I guess if you stay in the biggest nodes you may be able to buy any materials you need.

    Of course raids, dungeons and pvp events will need a group of people to complete. What content does that leave for a solo? The first category and just risk it?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited June 17
    Solo is not the same thing as "Single-Player".
    Grouping is not the same thing as multiplayer.
  • Swifty00Swifty00 Member
    Erahh wrote: »
    how do we all feel about the game having content that will force you into grouping?

    I think it is better than setting an expectation that you can solo all content.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I like being forced to group to get more out of the game than if I was solo. I tend towards introversion, so a push towards grouping is what I need.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Games like this will have content you won't need structured groups. You will see lots of people playing in small groups of two, three or four.
  • EndowedEndowed Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    MMOs.

    You don't group -- you don't get some of the content.

    That is the proper design.
  • RagingWarriorRagingWarrior Member, Alpha Two
    I would say work towards finding a good community or group of folks to play with. I push content with friends or guildies and sometimes knock out maintenance tasks with randoms. I enjoy solo content, just farming/crafting, but my heart lies in PVE content. I need to work on my PVP game more...
    "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very, very brightly, Raging."
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It’s a good thing. I for one am extremely pleased that Intrepid is sticking to their guns about making a game that’s good, not a game that’s for ‘everyone’, which in most cases ends up translating to ‘the lowest common denominator’ and makes the game lesser for it
  • tautau wrote: »
    Should we say 'rewards grouping' rather than 'forces grouping'?

    This. There's more of an incentive to group up vs solo playing. I like both, just depends on how much time I can contribute during that play session. I personally think it helps if the community is accommodating too, in WoW it's known for being toxic while playing FFXIV I've had excellent parties.
    Just like the moon, half of my heart will always love the dark.
    ✓ roleplayer
    ✗ Not looking for a guild atm
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Erahh wrote: »
    What is everyone opinion on the gaming forcing you into grouping for content ?

    I say force them.

    Huuuuuge Group/tiny Army of Mobs or above ? "Force" People with their Presence to band together and face them. This is not Worst of WoW-Token Craft here, so single People shouldn't be abe to farm huge Groups of Mobs.

    Worldbosses roam around ? Terrorising the Streets ? Making a hot mess out of any stray People or Caravans that dare to leave the City Walls ? Band together to face it, i say.
    Monster Coin Raids ? Same here, but it should be even more obvious.


    Huge corrupted Area with one or several, powerful Ancients floating around there and murdering Everyone who dares to approach ? Get rid of it, or maybe the Corruption will get rid of your Node. >:)


    And Nobody needs to mention what the Solution for plundering People on the open Seas or in the Roads between Nodes is, right ? When scattered, single Players get picked up one by one - or even small Groups : the Solution is obvious. Unleash the Citizens (lol) of your Node and carry the Fight back to them if you can. ;)
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • RipteyeRipteye Member, Alpha Two
    I believe there is a place for the reclusive MMO player. Communities need all types of people. I feel like there should be an avenue for every type of gamer in an MMO.

    There are times I want be involved in large group content it is rewarding to accomplish things with other people; however my social battery needs regular recharging so I don't become toxic.

    It helps if the game has a way for you to be alone in game and still progress.
  • Ace1234Ace1234 Member
    edited July 8
    Risk vs reward, you should be able to do most things alone but it should be tougher. That way grouping is encouraged through being a more efficient, but solo players aren't excluded as long as they put in the work.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    seems like most thing in the game u can do solo however u can do it better in a group.

    So no i wouldnt say ur forced into grouping with exception of dungeons/raid mobs i would say.


    PvE u can do solo
    Crafting/gathering/processing can all be done solo
    Caravans u can do solo riskier yes but doable
    wars can be participated in solo

    And so on, might be more efferent in groups but it not stopping you
  • HalaeHalae Member, Alpha Two
    In my personal opinion, the structure of it should be extremely simple; soloing means you don't have to split rewards, but you also get fewer rewards because you can't handle all types of content. Grouping, conversely, makes you split the haul but allows you to get more of a haul in the first place. All of this assumes you're successful in the first place, of course.

    That settles the entire problem. Rewards define the flow of player interactions and the structure of how they approach challenges.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 8
    Its in the name of the genre. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. The focus should be multiplayer gameplay. Solo play should be an afterthought in terms of priority. Design the game for groups, and whatever is possible as solo play within those designs is what will be the extent of solo play. For an MMO, solo play content is just whatever you can manage to play solo.
    Asking for solo play in an MMORPG is like asking for Massive multiplayer in a linear single player game. Its just not the focus of the genre.
    So put solo play design at the bottom of the list.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 8
    Massively multiplayer is not the same thing as Grouping.
    You don't have to join a Group to help progress a Node or attack/defend a Caravan or participate in a Node Siege. You don't have to be in a Group to Craft for or Trade with other players.
    Plenty of interactions can be had with masses of other players without being in a Group - especially in Ashes.

    Playing Solo is not the same thing as single-player or even playing alone.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Massively multiplayer is not the same thing as Grouping.
    You don't have to join a Group to help progress a Node or attack/defend a Caravan or participate in a Node Siege. You don't have to be in a Group to Craft for or Trade with other players.
    You don't need to group to do these things.

    However, you do need to group to do these things well.

    If you are off by yourself, you are not getting the protection the group offers, nor the communication. In the grand scale of things, it doesn't matter if you are there or not if you are not in a group.

    That is because the point of grouping in an MMORPG is that the sum of the whole is greater than the individual parts. Even if you are a collection of parts, if you don't take that step to be a part of that whole, you are still just one part among a collection.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    United we stand. Alone we fall.


    And Verra takes that literally.
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    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
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