The game shouldn't "force" players to do or not do anything.
I am quite confident neither You or me will be able to beat a World Boss completely One-on-One, no matter how much we have maxed out our Characters or how legendary our Gear will be, though.
So what would that " force " us to, if we want to take down said World Boss in Question ?
True, but I guess we have different definitions for "force". For example, as a lvl 10 character, you are not forced to first lvl up before fighting a lvl 60 mob, but you are encouraged to do so unless you want to die to it repeatedly. Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish. However, there should not be any hard limits on them trying to access such content, which is what I meant by forced.
The game shouldn't "force" players to do or not do anything.
I am quite confident neither You or me will be able to beat a World Boss completely One-on-One, no matter how much we have maxed out our Characters or how legendary our Gear will be, though.
So what would that " force " us to, if we want to take down said World Boss in Question ?
True, but I guess we have different definitions for "force". For example, as a lvl 10 character, you are not forced to first lvl up before fighting a lvl 60 mob, but you are encouraged to do so unless you want to die to it repeatedly. Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish. However, there should not be any hard limits on them trying to access such content, which is what I meant by forced.
This, basically?
The game types that this is close to, so far, mostly force players to group for efficient progression. And looking at their current PvE probably not even that (which should probably be ignored, I know, but they said something recently that makes me think maybe PvE feedback is back on the menu).
There are definitely design reasons why I can see it not turning out that way in the long term, but there's a difference between 'soloable' in the sense of 'I can progress, the game has given me enemies to cut down by myself that are also innately nearly as rewarding as grouping', and 'I could spend 5 minutes killing this one mob because it's challenging and fun but my actual progression rate from doing that is maybe 1/6th of what I'd get in a proper group.
Are we considering it 'forced' just because progression is 'the point'? Because if not, then there's no reason the game has to 'force' grouping. Just make a solo build and solo everything.
You will be able to solo in this game. Some classes/specs will do this better then others. The fact you need to team to get the good stuff done, including getting matts and crafting done. Makes me thrilled. I'm sick of playing games with harmonized classes that don't need anyone and any class can fill any spot on a team. I love that classes will be needed to support other classes play style. My first MMO loves were EQ1 and DAoC. I have been waiting for a game like Ashes for a very long time.
It’s trying to be a social game and that’s precisely why a lot of people are drawn to it. Now maybe it’s just an attempt to relive the so-called glory days, which had its own level of jankiness, but there’s faith that players will embrace that.
And if you don’t want a social game, then you can try to solo as best you can. Just don’t expect them to sacrifice the social game for the solo game. There are more than enough solo games to play.
I wouldn’t worry. The nature of social games is that there are some periods where the group can’t get together and some degree of solo play is in order. Ideally there should be enough content for each style, but I think they are expending far more calories on the social play. However there are also ways to make the group up dynamic seamless. I think we’ve seen examples of that in the events showcase plus other opportunities to join in the fun.
Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish.
This is one of the unsung benefits of level cap increases.
In most games that add a full level cap increase (10 levels as opposed to 5), when you hit that new level cap, a lot of the raid content from the last level cap becomes group content, and a lot of the group content becomes solo content. It isn't unheard of to see a very good solo player taking on some raid content in some situations.
Soloing easier raid level world bosses from the previous level cap (so between 4 and 6 levels below the current player level cap) was - for a while - one of my favorite down time activities in EQ2.
I think its really great. Most games are made too much for everyone. I get that people want to solo, and thats ok - solo should be an option. But it should never be a way to go straight into endgame. Grouping should always yield more XP and items than solo. If you cater to much to solo, some classes gets left behind, unless you plan everyone to be a solo class. Grouping is where the real challenge lies. Bosses can be harder etc.
Playing by yourself simply requires practice.
Playing in a group requires additional patience, coordination, teamwork, communication, and more.
I always found playing in the group to be more rewarding. Playing music by myself was enjoyable, but being part of the bigger group enabled me to be part of something bigger and more impressive.
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited April 5
Well.. it's not quite like that because in MMORPGs doing activities with other players is not exactly the same thing as being in a Group.
Being in a Group might be more rewarding. But, the "reward" isn't always of primary interest. And sometimes it's still fun to do stuff even without any other reward.
In EQ, I used to love healing and bestowing Spirit of the Wolf on other players even when I was not in a Group - for no other rewards besides the joy of helping other players for a moment.
I think most of us agree that Ashes should follow the original design of typical gameplay being balanced for an 8-person Group.
That's still not the same thing as being forced to be in an 8-person Group.
We can't solo a Node. That's not the same thing as being forced into Grouping.
Grouping providing more xp and rewards encourages players to Group. It doesn't force players to Group.
i dont think people are forced to group. the right word would be encouraged.
you could play solo 24/7, and just farm something you can get by yourself, sell it, and buy the things you cant get by yourself.
id say forcing is more like when you cant enter a dungeon if you don't have a minimum of 3 players, and then you cant buy the loot from other players and the only way you can get it is by doing the dungeon yourself.
Comments
True, but I guess we have different definitions for "force". For example, as a lvl 10 character, you are not forced to first lvl up before fighting a lvl 60 mob, but you are encouraged to do so unless you want to die to it repeatedly. Maybe I am being pedantic, but there will always be stuff that solos and small groups will be unable to realistically accomplish. However, there should not be any hard limits on them trying to access such content, which is what I meant by forced.
This, basically?
The game types that this is close to, so far, mostly force players to group for efficient progression. And looking at their current PvE probably not even that (which should probably be ignored, I know, but they said something recently that makes me think maybe PvE feedback is back on the menu).
There are definitely design reasons why I can see it not turning out that way in the long term, but there's a difference between 'soloable' in the sense of 'I can progress, the game has given me enemies to cut down by myself that are also innately nearly as rewarding as grouping', and 'I could spend 5 minutes killing this one mob because it's challenging and fun but my actual progression rate from doing that is maybe 1/6th of what I'd get in a proper group.
Are we considering it 'forced' just because progression is 'the point'? Because if not, then there's no reason the game has to 'force' grouping. Just make a solo build and solo everything.
RING DING DING DING !!!
It’s trying to be a social game and that’s precisely why a lot of people are drawn to it. Now maybe it’s just an attempt to relive the so-called glory days, which had its own level of jankiness, but there’s faith that players will embrace that.
And if you don’t want a social game, then you can try to solo as best you can. Just don’t expect them to sacrifice the social game for the solo game. There are more than enough solo games to play.
I wouldn’t worry. The nature of social games is that there are some periods where the group can’t get together and some degree of solo play is in order. Ideally there should be enough content for each style, but I think they are expending far more calories on the social play. However there are also ways to make the group up dynamic seamless. I think we’ve seen examples of that in the events showcase plus other opportunities to join in the fun.
This is one of the unsung benefits of level cap increases.
In most games that add a full level cap increase (10 levels as opposed to 5), when you hit that new level cap, a lot of the raid content from the last level cap becomes group content, and a lot of the group content becomes solo content. It isn't unheard of to see a very good solo player taking on some raid content in some situations.
Soloing easier raid level world bosses from the previous level cap (so between 4 and 6 levels below the current player level cap) was - for a while - one of my favorite down time activities in EQ2.
Playing by yourself simply requires practice.
Playing in a group requires additional patience, coordination, teamwork, communication, and more.
I always found playing in the group to be more rewarding. Playing music by myself was enjoyable, but being part of the bigger group enabled me to be part of something bigger and more impressive.
I see the same with MMOs.
Being in a Group might be more rewarding. But, the "reward" isn't always of primary interest. And sometimes it's still fun to do stuff even without any other reward.
In EQ, I used to love healing and bestowing Spirit of the Wolf on other players even when I was not in a Group - for no other rewards besides the joy of helping other players for a moment.
I think most of us agree that Ashes should follow the original design of typical gameplay being balanced for an 8-person Group.
That's still not the same thing as being forced to be in an 8-person Group.
We can't solo a Node. That's not the same thing as being forced into Grouping.
Grouping providing more xp and rewards encourages players to Group. It doesn't force players to Group.
you could play solo 24/7, and just farm something you can get by yourself, sell it, and buy the things you cant get by yourself.
id say forcing is more like when you cant enter a dungeon if you don't have a minimum of 3 players, and then you cant buy the loot from other players and the only way you can get it is by doing the dungeon yourself.
I can see where a solo player entering by themself would have worry or concerns.... but that comes with playing an mmo.