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What is everyone opinion on the gaming forcing you into grouping for content?

playerEraplayerEra Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Thought this would be a good point of discussion.

how do we all feel about the game having content that will force you into grouping?

Personally I am all for it, the classic MMO days before group finder and all of the jazz were a different kind. I think we should be forced into the interactions of making groups with friends and randoms from the get go that way it doesn't feel alien when you require it at max level.

I think this was a big places where MMO's like WoW really let us down. Group finding and having to talk to people was an amazing experience, allowed for meeting new people and making new friends. Instead it became a silent husk of people queueing and rushing to finish the instance without a word being said.

What about you, all?

I've always felt like MMO's are about community and bringing people together to accomplish goals. I look forward to this in Ashes :smiley:
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Comments

  • SongRuneSongRune Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm good with it, personally. But I don't like it being mandatory for all content, particularly gathering. Unfortunately, that's the way Steven wants to go. It's just... Am I supposed to ask my group to just hang around and watch me, if their own gathering specialization is different and not applicable to the area? If I don't, getting ganked and robbed is all but guaranteed, tomorrow if not today. If I do, what's the fun part for them?

    At the same time, if you make it more efficient, and make it better for bosses, particularly the more interesting ones, that's great. But we should still have solo options. Does that mean some players will focus exclusivity on those? Yes, always. But giving duos and trios, or even soloers something to do seems important to me. If my friends get off work an hour later than me, should I really just not play? There's always going to be group/coordination downtime. I feel like it's better to give people something to do then other than log off because it's not worth spending 15 minutes organizing a pick-up group, or traveling to meet them, when you've only got 45 minutes of downtime.
  • tautautautau Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am not sure we are being forced into grouping for 'any' content. Rather we are forced into grouping for 'some' content. In other words, the content that is difficult enough that you cannot do solo, you need a group for.

    This is fine. Because if someone could do ALL the content by themselves, that would be a really lame game, wouldn't it?
  • TyranthraxusTyranthraxus Member, Alpha Two
    I'm sure there will be solo-able content, as well as group content; If someone doesn't want to play an MMO like an MMO, there will still be activities they can complete.

    Always been a fan of group-accomplishments in games / Never been a fan of anyone who complains about an MMO not being entirely solo-able.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    It is required.

    And as others said, there's obviously gotta be some soloable content, and ideally smth to do for your group if you're doing high value solo content that's gonna attract attention.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    MMOs should be based around groups IMO, theres a lot of solo/co-op/singleplayer RPGs out there
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Indeed - group content should be the default, with evidence and a small amount of solo content in support.
  • TryolTryol Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 31
    One of the main draws of AoC for me. Modern MMORPGs don't do this nearly enough.
  • SolbranthiusSolbranthius Member, Alpha Two
    I'm not opposed to it. I played a certain other MMO that shifted away from a need to interact with other players and it completely changed the community and landscape to something much worse and far more selfish.

    When too many compromises are made in favour of pandering to 'solo focused' players, those same individuals inevitably - and ironically - team up to demand that more and more content is focused on pleasing them.

    Of course, this doesn't mean that there should not be solo content, just that it shouldn't become the priority at the expense of group content/player interaction.
  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 31
    Forced grouping is good. Chances are that you will end up grouping with someone from your node, which helps build that community up. For those with static groups that dynamic won't happen, but hopefully they are forced out of their comfort zone as well sometimes, if a few members don't show up that day :wink:
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    That's very well communicated about the game. The game highly focused on group gameplay or group achievable mechanics. And that's good
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Erahh wrote: »
    how do we all feel about the game having content that will force you into grouping?

    Well it ~ " IS " ~ an MMO, right ? ;)


    While for Example World of WoW-Token Craft does the same in Raids - i miss the Need to team up with others in most Places of the Open World - except for Worldbosses.


    And i can imagine only anti-social People having a real Problem with being forced into Teamwork with others. I understand completely the Desire to explore amazing Video Game Worlds alone from time to time.

    But ALL the time ?? Hell and Heavens Please no. At least not in an MMO.



    I like the Idea that i can NOT just walk around in every single Area of a vast, huge Open World completely alone. For Example in Castle "Oaken(?)bane" where countless Goblins had their Base and Camp in the Fighter Presentation. ;)
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    MMORPGs should not force grouping.
    Group because you have the desire to be in a group.
    Have Active Skills and other abilities that synergize with other players in a group.
    Maybe give some bonuses for Gathering together.

    It's Massively Multiplayer Online game
    not
    Massively Multiplayer Grouping game.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    Dygz wrote: »
    MMORPGs should not force grouping.

    If you can do all and every Open World Area in the whole Game Solo - except for when a Worldboss is present,
    then the Game is doing something wrong. ;)

    A Base FULL of let's say for Example Enemy Minotaurs, or Enemy Goblin Hordes,

    this is not something someone should be able to just walk through alone. Not even just easily when carefully pulling (aggro'ing) the Mobs in as tiny as Groups as possible.



    I loved how "Tyr's Hand" ( Eastern Plaguelands, WoW ) was DAAANGEROUS even for LvL 60 Characters. There were so many Scarlet Crusade Elite(?) Mobs around there, between LvL 57 and 59 or 60 or so.

    One of the strongest Dudes there the Paladin of my Brother and me, we could only beat like once in an Hour. Because Lay on Hands had a Cooldown of Sixty Minutes or so. :D


    WoW Vanilla was AWESOME with Moments like this.


    And "Pyrewood" (Silverpine Forest) had ELITE Worgen around LvL 14 when i remember correctly. They were a NIGHTMARE for Characters beneath LvL 18 to 21, making that Village there an awesome, challenging Area.


    In Burning Crusade, first Addon - there were a few Area's with relative strong Demons not only in Hellfire Peninsula, but also Nagrand.

    Again. Our Paladin, even when wearing FULL T4 Epic Endgame Gear, needed sometimes all of his Shields, plus Lay on Hands - AND needed to crit at times when dealing with some Mobs there One-on-ONE. ;)

    And that were not even the truly ridiculous Elite Mobs.




    Nothing could be more boring and horrible, when You share an Open World (Server) with like +9K People - and can clear out everything Solo.

    Bandit-Camps ?
    Goblin-Camps ?
    Minotaur-Camps ?

    Shall we blindfold ourselves and smack them to Death with our dxxx's when we just experienced these Area's often enough ? Of Course completely Solo.

    Shall we wrestle with half-grown or fully grown Dragons also ? Without the Need of Allies ?



    And then,
    like in WoW -> People start to pass and walk by each other - and partially seem the other People as nothing but insignificant Existences ... ... ... ^.^;"


    Please not again. That were horrible times when i experienced that Behaviour in WoW.
    When People treat You only like an Annoyance or Opportunity to make ingame-Gold, this is very anti-social and it ruins the MMO Feeling at least partially.
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
  • DiamahtDiamaht Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's a step back to one of the things older games actually did right.

    A lot of things got better over the years, but the trend towards soloing everything is not one of them.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Prefer the notion compared to a solo grind.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aszkalon wrote: »
    If you can do all and every Open World Area in the whole Game Solo - except for when a Worldboss is present,
    then the Game is doing something wrong. ;)
    Um. You don't have to formally join a Group/Party in order to be in combat alongside other players.
    Sieges and Caravans don't force grouping, for example.


    Aszkalon wrote: »
    A Base FULL of let's say for Example Enemy Minotaurs, or Enemy Goblin Hordes,

    this is not something someone should be able to just walk through alone. Not even just easily when carefully pulling (aggro'ing) the Mobs in as tiny as Groups as possible.
    You don't have to Group in order to succesfully complete that encounter alongside other players.


    Aszkalon wrote: »
    Nothing could be more boring and horrible, when You share an Open World (Server) with like +9K People - and can clear out everything Solo.
    Content designed for multiple players is not the same thing as forced grouping.
  • WHIT3ROS3WHIT3ROS3 Member
    Verra is a sandbox. It should have lots of content at different levels, solo+
  • VargosVargos Member, Alpha Two
    I hope that solo content will be available as much as group content. Exactly forcing players to group together should not be a good idea, as it could cut off a large percentage of players.

    Yes, group content should have more rewards. But a solo player should be able to achieve similar results, even if for a longer period of time than in a group.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Rewards should be the same regardless.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • koltovincekoltovince Member, Settler, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two
    I dont think a game should force grouping but encourage it. You are questing in an area and you see an elite just chilling hidden in a cave. You cant solo the elite, but the game incentivizes you to kill it for some special loot. The player goes out of their way to group up and kill the elite and get the loot.
  • TheHiddenDaggerInnTheHiddenDaggerInn Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Before the advent of Dungeon Group finders, which I'm not fond of—and I'll share why—players could abruptly leave a dungeon if they were dissatisfied with you, the party's makeup, your damage output, or your healing abilities. Such actions left the rest of the group in a bind, without any consequences for the leaver who wasted the time of four others, only to easily join another group elsewhere.

    Contrastingly, in AoC, where parties consist of 8 members, I wholeheartedly support the traditional approach of using group chats and networking within guilds to assemble a cohesive team. This method not only enhances the gameplay experience but also fosters the potential for long-lasting friendships within the game, possibly extending over two decades.

    Choosing to play solo is entirely up to individual preference. Yet, it's worth noting that this choice might limit access to certain game content. As Margaret mentioned during the stream, building friendships is key. I'm eagerly anticipating the resurgence of the social dimension in MMOs, enhancing the overall gaming experience.
    TwitchTV Streamer: The Hidden Dagger Inn Saturday's PM Cst And
    Wednesday's at PM Cst
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  • NerrorNerror Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    When I say forced grouping is good, what I am talking about is having a lot of content you can't do if you're not in a group. Not even alongside each other outside a group, unless for some reason you are lucky to get healed and get the most damage on the target that someone else tanks. Not every mob has to be an elite in Ashes, I would hate that myself, but almost all the good stuff worth killing for XP and drops? Absolutely. Call it forced, call it heavily incentivized, it's the same meaning here. I would like to see gatherers having to group up for some areas too.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »
    Verra is a sandbox. It should have lots of content at different levels, solo+
    Verra is a Themebox.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    Nerror wrote: »
    When I say forced grouping is good, what I am talking about is having a lot of content you can't do if you're not in a group. Not even alongside each other outside a group, unless for some reason you are lucky to get healed and get the most damage on the target that someone else tanks. Not every mob has to be an elite in Ashes, I would hate that myself, but almost all the good stuff worth killing for XP and drops? Absolutely. Call it forced, call it heavily incentivized, it's the same meaning here. I would like to see gatherers having to group up for some areas too.
    Yep. Which is why I said that forced grouping is unecessary. Because it's MMO Roleplaying Game.
    It's not MMO Grouping Game.
    There is plenty of room for multiplayer content and multiplayer combat that can be completed outside of a formal group.
    Join a formal group because that's the way you like to play - not because the game forces you to.

    I think we were both clear - and disagree.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    koltovince wrote: »
    I dont think a game should force grouping but encourage it. You are questing in an area and you see an elite just chilling hidden in a cave. You cant solo the elite, but the game incentivizes you to kill it for some special loot. The player goes out of their way to group up and kill the elite and get the loot.
    Group or kill it together without grouping.
  • koltovincekoltovince Member, Settler, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Group or kill it together without grouping.

    Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    koltovince wrote: »
    Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?
    Yes, this would be a rewardless action. But for Dygz reward is the content and the cooperation, which is why he'd be mostly fine with getting nothing for a good thing done.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    koltovince wrote: »
    Wouldn't that mess up most of the players with the current loot system planned for ashes if players just killed it without grouping?
    If you want more loot from grouping - go ahead and group.
    Nothing is stopping people from grouping as far as I know.
  • TheDarkSorcererTheDarkSorcerer Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 1
    I don't like to be forced to be in a group unless it's a trial/dungeon.

    Same with gyms. I don't like working out WITH people, but I like working out AROUND people
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  • SengardenSengarden Member, Alpha Two
    IMO, MMORPGs should make you feel like a member of Tolkien's Fellowship.

    Frodo wouldn't have taken the One Ring anywhere if Gandalf hadn't come along to bid him away from his home. Gandalf couldn't take the ring himself, so he had to get his friends involved. Merry, Pippin, and Sam wouldn't have gone on their respective journeys if they hadn't been following Frodo. Aragorn wouldn't have realized his destiny if the threat of Mordor and Middle Earth's only hope to stand against it didn't rise from the shadows in the form of Frodo and his quest. Gimli and Legolas helped ensure the other's survival and dissolved each other's prejudices, even when they didn't realize it, or care to acknowledge it. Frodo wouldn't have gotten the ring to Mt Doom if Aragorn's army hadn't distracted Sauron at a pivotal moment, he wouldn't have reached the peak if Sam didn't carry him, it wouldn't have been destroyed if Gollum hadn't bitten it off his damn finger, and everyone would've died if Gandalf's feathered friends didn't show up at the end of the battle to slay some drakes, toss some orcs, and provide a couple of Hobbits with an airlift.

    Every single time something went wrong, and things did go wrong (a lot) the team relied on different members of their diverse group to help, even when the saviors might've been far away and simply doing the right thing, not knowing the sweeping consequences of their actions.

    Naturally, not every day in an MMO is a day in the Journey of The Fellowship. Sometimes you log on and farm herb nodes for an hour, manage your freehold, and have a guild meeting. But the main point I'm trying to make with the storytelling comparison is the call to action and overcoming of unexpected obstacles. Things going wrong is a staple of engaging storytelling. I hope that in Ashes, there will be enough dynamic PvX content spread throughout the world such that you will get distracted from your main objective fairly often, that you will face setbacks, that you will need to rely on others for help, and that you will have fun coming out the other side having grown as a player and an individual for having faced those challenges and strengthening those bonds with old and new friends. Yes, even when you originally intended to simply log on and farm herb nodes for an hour.

    Would you rather have a boring game that lets you farm herb nodes for an hour by yourself no problem, or a game that offers unexpected challenges that require you to call on old friends, develop new ones in the moment that you create shared memories with, and finish your session with a unique story that some of your friends might not be able to replicate?

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