As far as I have heard/read, the summoner is supposed to completely shift into the role of the secondary. To me that means a summoner/cleric should be very close to the healing ability of a cleric/x, although with a summoner's flair.
As far as I have heard/read, the summoner is supposed to completely shift into the role of the secondary. To me that means a summoner/cleric should be very close to the healing ability of a cleric/x, although with a summoner's flair.
Similar to the the way the summoner/ranger is likely to summon archers and be an RDPS, or a summoner/rogue is likely to have stabby summons and deliver MDPS.
I'm pretty sure I've read near enough the opposite;
no other primary archetype will compare in healing ability to a cleric primary, although the secondary archetype will have a significant impact and offer some healing capability.
EDIT:
Cleric classes are the only classes that can fill the role of a primary healer. Classes with Cleric as a secondary archetype will have self-healing benefits as well as limited healing benefits to other players.
No one is going to fill the role of a primary healer other than the healer archetype; but there will be secondary class options that you can select, which will provide you with some level of sustainability under restoration, most of that will be centralized to yourself, especially in the case of a Paladin. – Steven Sharif
I don't think healer is the most important. I also don't think healers are always the most scarce. Healers actually tend to have the lowest skill ceiling in MMOs, and tanks tend to have the highest because they are often conductors of fights and have to manage all or most of the mechanics in PVE.
Got to remember though that for an 8 player group, you should only need 1 tank and 1 cleric. So the ratio isn't as high compared to WoW where you want 1 tank and 1 healer for a 5 man group.
I'm hoping though that for both tank and cleric, that the sub-classes provide the variety of tank and healing options that you normally get in other fully fledged classes in other games.
Something like this:
cleric/tank - adds a bubble to your heals that absorbs future damage
cleric/rogue - adds hots to your heals
cleric/ranger - increases chance of critical heal
cleric/mage - increase aoe effects of heals
cleric/cleric - increases healing amount
cleric/bard - gives target a damage increase
cleric/fighter - increases healing power of follow up heals on target
cleric/summoner - pet that also heals your target
I was under the impression, that it is 5 or 6 man groups?
I don't think healer is the most important. I also don't think healers are always the most scarce. Healers actually tend to have the lowest skill ceiling in MMOs, and tanks tend to have the highest because they are often conductors of fights and have to manage all or most of the mechanics in PVE.
Tank is the most important.
nah bards will be the most important class in aoc, followed by the cleric :P
I'm sure you will be able to win pvps without a tank, but not without healers and bards
I don't think healer is the most important. I also don't think healers are always the most scarce. Healers actually tend to have the lowest skill ceiling in MMOs, and tanks tend to have the highest because they are often conductors of fights and have to manage all or most of the mechanics in PVE.
Tank is the most important.
Agree tank is most important & scarce. Healing can be a pretty chill experience when in the mood, although it can be incredibly demanding EG in a higher-end PvP scenario.
Tank is actually one of the primary archetypes that has me most intrigued... and that's despite being a pvp-leaning player.
It sounds like they're making real efforts to re-think the tank dynamics - particularly in a PvP context, and generally with the different types of tank builds: evasion, control, mitigation.
Why the Cleric Archetype is AOC's most important Archetype and Cannot Fail.
It seems and looks like the Cleric is the only "strong"/direct Healer in the Game, doesn't it ?
Revive/Rezz People ? Okay.
Heal Tons of Damage ? Okay.
Maybe we can get the Bard to have a Rezz/Revive-Ability, too - but not as often or as many People as a Cleric can. Would make the Bard very cool but also would not take the Importance from a Cleric away.
Why the Cleric Archetype is AOC's most important Archetype and Cannot Fail.
It seems and looks like the Cleric is the only "strong"/direct Healer in the Game, doesn't it ?
Revive/Rezz People ? Okay.
Heal Tons of Damage ? Okay.
Maybe we can get the Bard to have a Rezz/Revive-Ability, too - but not as often or as many People as a Cleric can. Would make the Bard very cool but also would not take the Importance from a Cleric away.
You probably know that they plan to have Scrolls of Resurrection, so anyone can rez (I disagree with this btw). But Clerics will have a specific rez ability that will be more powerful and convey additional benefits.
Aside from the scrolls, I personally would not want to start giving the rez ability to other classes. I'm biased b/c I plan to play a Cleric, but that said, I think loss of class identity is a major problem with MMOs. Once you start giving every class every ability, thus eliminating what makes your class special, it's completely removes the fun of playing (for me anyway). 10 years later and I'm still bitter about WoW giving battle rez to non-druid classes. DK with a battle rez, ffs.
I realize you said give Bards a weaker rez, but still, it would start to erode a core part of the Cleric identity. This would mean anyone can use a scroll, but the Bard has a more powerful rez than that. Possibly if you got rid of the scrolls, gave the bard and maybe summoner a weak rez, then maybe.
You probably know that they plan to have Scrolls of Resurrection, so anyone can rez (I disagree with this btw). But Clerics will have a specific rez ability that will be more powerful and convey additional benefits.
Fxxx. Thanks for this Information, Tacquito. I had actually no Idea about this. Hopefully the Scrolls will be very limited to what for "Advantages" it will have over having no Scrolls at all.
Its up to the devs to make an engaging bard which can't be botted so easily. Cleric is quite bot adverse with held buttons and the like. You'd need a human to gauge the nuances of battle to be most effective. Same with the proc based bard. You couldn't just unleash the bot and expect all buffs to be in the correct order. Not that I've seen the bard yet.
I feel like people are getting away from the reason for the discussion.
Cleric being the most important class to get right, is not based on 'skill cap or 'power tuning', it's the most important class because if it is not engaging, people won't play it and group dynamics will suffer. This means the experience for ALL classes and players will suffer.
But to those points, why would people want to play a healing class with a low skill cap, low engagement, low power tune, low utility and flexibility, where core abilities like rez are shared through scrolls?
Most importantly, as it is right now there is a complete lack of choice in fulfilling player class fantasy for this heal kit. A cleric is a holy paladin as a heal bot and an inquisitor as a dps/heal hybrid. Both of these class identities are incredibly similar and does not fulfill the myriad of other class fantasy options that might make a player roll a healer when they otherwise would not have.
Ashes of Creation is based on group gameplay.
Cleric is the only class that can main heal a group.
If the cleric fails, people won't play it.
As a result, there won't be enough clerics to support group dynamics and advancement.
As a result, group gameplay as a whole will suffer
All classes (not just clerics) will get frustrated at the lack of advancement, the time needed to find a cleric and potentially at clerics themselves if they choose to seek a more dps focused playstyle in a world where main healing itself is already an incredibly scarce resource due to bottlenecking the number of viable healing alternatives to just 1 class. This is why this class must succeed and be appealing to a large enough amount of the player base in order to entice players to play it.
Comments
I'm pretty sure I've read near enough the opposite;
no other primary archetype will compare in healing ability to a cleric primary, although the secondary archetype will have a significant impact and offer some healing capability.
EDIT:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cleric
Tank is the most important.
I was under the impression, that it is 5 or 6 man groups?
nah bards will be the most important class in aoc, followed by the cleric :P
I'm sure you will be able to win pvps without a tank, but not without healers and bards
Agree tank is most important & scarce. Healing can be a pretty chill experience when in the mood, although it can be incredibly demanding EG in a higher-end PvP scenario.
Tank is actually one of the primary archetypes that has me most intrigued... and that's despite being a pvp-leaning player.
It sounds like they're making real efforts to re-think the tank dynamics - particularly in a PvP context, and generally with the different types of tank builds: evasion, control, mitigation.
I think it could make for an interesting secondary at least.
Have a read of the Wiki:
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Tank
It seems and looks like the Cleric is the only "strong"/direct Healer in the Game, doesn't it ?
Revive/Rezz People ? Okay.
Heal Tons of Damage ? Okay.
Maybe we can get the Bard to have a Rezz/Revive-Ability, too - but not as often or as many People as a Cleric can. Would make the Bard very cool but also would not take the Importance from a Cleric away.
You probably know that they plan to have Scrolls of Resurrection, so anyone can rez (I disagree with this btw). But Clerics will have a specific rez ability that will be more powerful and convey additional benefits.
Aside from the scrolls, I personally would not want to start giving the rez ability to other classes. I'm biased b/c I plan to play a Cleric, but that said, I think loss of class identity is a major problem with MMOs. Once you start giving every class every ability, thus eliminating what makes your class special, it's completely removes the fun of playing (for me anyway). 10 years later and I'm still bitter about WoW giving battle rez to non-druid classes. DK with a battle rez, ffs.
I realize you said give Bards a weaker rez, but still, it would start to erode a core part of the Cleric identity. This would mean anyone can use a scroll, but the Bard has a more powerful rez than that. Possibly if you got rid of the scrolls, gave the bard and maybe summoner a weak rez, then maybe.
Fxxx. Thanks for this Information, Tacquito. I had actually no Idea about this. Hopefully the Scrolls will be very limited to what for "Advantages" it will have over having no Scrolls at all.
Cleric being the most important class to get right, is not based on 'skill cap or 'power tuning', it's the most important class because if it is not engaging, people won't play it and group dynamics will suffer. This means the experience for ALL classes and players will suffer.
But to those points, why would people want to play a healing class with a low skill cap, low engagement, low power tune, low utility and flexibility, where core abilities like rez are shared through scrolls?
Most importantly, as it is right now there is a complete lack of choice in fulfilling player class fantasy for this heal kit. A cleric is a holy paladin as a heal bot and an inquisitor as a dps/heal hybrid. Both of these class identities are incredibly similar and does not fulfill the myriad of other class fantasy options that might make a player roll a healer when they otherwise would not have.
All classes (not just clerics) will get frustrated at the lack of advancement, the time needed to find a cleric and potentially at clerics themselves if they choose to seek a more dps focused playstyle in a world where main healing itself is already an incredibly scarce resource due to bottlenecking the number of viable healing alternatives to just 1 class. This is why this class must succeed and be appealing to a large enough amount of the player base in order to entice players to play it.