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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
True Stealth
Nerror
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
@Vaknar @StevenSharif or whoever, can you clarify what Steven meant by "true stealth" for rogues? Did he just mean it's not proximity based like camouflage is? Are we still getting the predator type stealth? Or has it changed to actually be completely invisible?
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Comments
I hope that's all it was
I'd prefer somewhere in between the two; close enough to invisible but with a chance of perceiving it against the right backdrop.
Also I'd like ripples to be visible in water and any other similar effects that non-stealthed players may produce, such as footprints in snow/mud.
That's a hard line to toe I think. For example, if you have some distortion so they are just a bit noticeable then I think I everyone who plays a decent amount of pvp will be able to spot them since people will just get use to it. However if the distortion isn't good enough then they might aswell just b invisible. I do however like the idea of them still making ripples or trails in snow or whatever terrain. A step above this for people who really want to devote themselves to stealth would be having augments within the assassin class that remove all Traces of movement. Just a thought.
And in secluded areas like bushes or darkness the shimmer would be less noticeable.
This strikes a nice balance on my opinion and makes stealth work better in situations where stealth is realistic, and allows for spotting the rogue when they are out in the open for all the reasons described above, without making it impossible.
― Plato
However, he said that environments, items and I think archetype skills are where the effective counters will come from? So perhaps by default everyone is unable to see them at all. But either of those sources can offer increased visibility of invisible enemies up to a certain range. How visible, and to what range they are more visible could be the parameters available.
I'm not sure what I like, I tend to hate invisibility personally (master of getting ganked) - curious what you'd be trading off for a toolkit of better anti-visibility measures. Stealth characters would need to be common enough to warrant making those compromises.
I think he didn't elaborate because he was saying it's the stealth you see currently with rogues in most MMOs, invisible. If it was something different he probably would have felt compelled to explain.
At least that's what I took from it.
This is the way I hope they go.
"There will be countermeasures found in itemization, other archetype abilities and environmental that stop stealth. So there is a strategic and tactical response to invis players".
How to interpret this statement becomes the next question...
― Plato
Personally I'm happy with that but I'd like an ultra faint indication at range, just to give that.. "was that a rogue?" doubt.
That will only be " more OR less easily to see " however, when someone is expecting Rogues or looking out for possible Rogues,
in a remotely quiet and oversightly Area.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
While moving you are almost invisable but can still see them like shimmers or what not so you can stil be seen just rather hard
However when stationary you are true inviable unless somone right near you.
Stealth at night/darker area would be better than during the day/light area aswell
i dont realy like true stealth in games since it doesnt realy offer much counter play especialy when there no duration on the stealth so u can sneak around 24/7 looking for a gank like WoW has (or had when i played)
I'll still say that in third person games with large zoom options, distortion stealth can be very similar to no stealth when used against people with good dynamic vision, in a large number of situations.
It's the kind of design that makes the game fun for those who have it and frustrating for everyone else (in small scale PvP).
In large scale PvP it becomes frustrating for the rogues too because they can't actually use it since everyone in the enemy team spams detection all the time. On top of that, everyone who has the option to spec into detection measures is now pretty much forced to have at least one point in it.
Invisibility and detection is just a bad design by principle in any PvP game, doesn't have any real strategy to it: if you don't have detection you are useless. if you have detection the invisible enemy is now the one being useless. it's literally 1 or 0 with no nuances.
its not a bad design. also, depending on the game, detection can be built in other skills, you don't necessarily have to spec for it. also whats wrong with that? that's like saying, well this ability is very strong, now I'm forced to spec on it. this anti heal is strong, now I'm forced to spec on it. you don't have to.
in small scale pvp, the rogue isn't gonna be perma invisible 24/7. you play around that and pay attention because he gonna show up eventually.
regarding mass pvp, if the rogues weren't invisible, don't you think they would still have issues trying to approach the enemies from afar? they arent warriors.
high mobility / dashing around / dodging / move speed are just a few ways on how u can design a strong rogue without invisibility, and without having to force everyone to play around it. "pay attention and just wait they show up" is boring and non interactive way of playing, in my opinion.
you didn't get it. you will be doing other things, such as fighting the rogue party, you just need to pay attention to when he pops up. doesn't mean you gonna stand still and wait for him. anyway, you still have to play around other classes and reach to what they are doing... replace rogue with healer, or tank, or ranger and its the same. you are basically saying "I don't want to play around anyone or react to what they are doing".
sure you can have dashes all you want, but you can also have invisibility. approaching the rogue's target in a non direct way is part of being a rogue. invisibility is an implementation of that.
also, dashes are probably more op...free get out of jail card and free chasing and no one can escape you.
invisibility might be hard to balance, sure , who knows, same as other things. but you cant say its a bad design. you are only saying its a bad design because "ewww I don't like it".
I don't see how anyone could say that. I don't recall an MMO ever having stealth like this, or anything with high zoom. Zooming out would make it harder not easier, especially with all the other stuff going on on screen. That's like saying it's easier to detect people in camo in Halo when I'm further away from them, which is just flat out false. Nobody is going to be hyper focusing on looking for stealthers in the middle of battles.
To each their own.
I stand by what I said, but I accept that I, and the people I know, might all be outliers.
well, heroes of the storm xD
not an mmorpg tho. but looking out for zeratul if he was in the match was normal. it wasn't that hard to see (distortion based stealth). i have to say it was harder for lower rank players tho, having played zeratul myself soemtimes.