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My concerns with the summoner class

I really like the concept of a summoner class in an mmorpg game , it's a very nuanced class that can be implemented in a plethora of ways but a lot of times it ends up being lackluster.

In my opinion a summoner class that plays strictly through it's summons is a bad take on a summoner. A summoner that only uses it's summons as a low damage buff is also not the correct way to have a summon class (why not just drink a buff potion or have a cleric / bard buff your damage output ?)

A summoner should always be a 50/50 kind of deal. A summoner should be really weak without it's summon and a summon should be really weak without it's summoner. Never should it ever be that you summon an entity and stand back and let it do the fighting (with weaker mobs that should be an option in case of grinding but not in regular gameplay).

If we take a look at Azir from league of legends (I get it's a completely different style of gameplay but the principle still stands) he is just as important as the summons he creates and it makes for an engaging gameplay that relies just as much on the player as the summons , it's not just a 'summon , click target , win' strategy.

The summoner as a character should always be a integral part of the class and the power level should be balanced between the entity and the player.
Another example is the character Wendy from Don't starve. Without her summon she gets a 25% damage decrease debuff , while I don't think this is how AOC should go about making the summoner it still puts a sort of agency of the player to actually interact with the enemy , other than letting the summon do all the work.

In my opinion a summoner should fight beside their summon , not fight through them. It should be an active class with ways to influence the fight by themselves with the help of the summon. On their own their weak , but with the help of the summon(s) they are of equal level to other classes.

Of course this will make the summoner harder and more convoluted to manage but if someone really wants to play as a summoner that will not be a problem for the player. It's a hard game of balancing power levels between the player and summon but that's how it should be.

Thoughts ?

Comments

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    SnowElfSnowElf Member
    Summoner has continued to struggle throughout MMOS for years it would seem, so the concerns are absolutely valid. FFXIV has reworked Summoner countless times and still the class never has been able to shine imo. I think that the only video game that I actually enjoyed Summoner was in Final Fantasy Tactics, being that it has strong support and offensive/defensive capability.

    What I would truly love to see when it comes to the Summoner archetype is that the Summoner actually becomes the summon, rather than always summoning a 'pet' to act as a summon to aid them in battle. Not every Summoner ability would have to turn them into a different summon, either, but there is viability in roles such as tanking, healing or DPS where they could become a summon of their respective role that they are fulfilling while playing in AoC, which then boosts or alters some of their core abilities to fit their role better.

    Some examples..

    If I'm a DPS summoner, maybe transforming into an ice or fire summon role would suit better to dealing out the damage. If I'm more spec'd toward being a healer, maybe a wind or water summon would help in healing allies, or, if I'm looking to tank as a Summoner, the summoner could transform into an earth elemental, like the ones we've seen in the tank archetype showcase.

    Being able to transform into different aspects also doesn't mean that the transformation is everlasting. It could be baked into a rotation which eventually allows for a burst of increased damage or healing, and eventually the summoner reverts back into their original form.

    For those who may think this sounds more like a shapeshifter/druid, I hear you, but that's where the nuance comes in. We've seen countless variations of classes throughout video games for decades, each game with their own unique spin on how they assume a class should be. I think it would be neat to see a summoner class where the summoner becomes the summon in some way, shape or form.
    I am obsessed with anything magic.

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    MicoMico Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Personally I think playing through your summoned pets is the fun of being a summoner.

    Where I think most games go wrong with summoners is the limitations of the number of useful pets in your arsenal. If I had 20 different summons that I had to rotate between and summon depending on the situation, all with different abilities that would be very engaging.

    I feel summoners should have a huge arsenal of different types of summons to do, where the draw back to the large variety is the time it takes to cast/summon your pets.

    I think the pets of a summoners should be a true jack of all trades between, males dps, magic dps, healing and buffing and even short term tanking. They just can't do everything instantly, which is the trade off.
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    willsummonwillsummon Member
    edited May 17
    I believe the summoner should have basic pets with some schools of direct magic, such as damage over time and channeling spells.

    The whole concept of the summoner is to wear down and defeat the enemy though pets and spells. So damage over time and channeling spells would fit the motif.

    As for a summoner's roles and direction for more advanced spells and pets, that would depend on which class the summon chooses to become.
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    KilionKilion Member
    It seems that Summoners will have their own skills, but will gain additional abilities based on the Summons they have currently walking with them. The Summoner can channel their own abilities through the summoned creatures and of course as with all other classes it is safe to assume that basic weapon attacks will provide them with some sort of essential utility to increase their combat power.
    The answer is probably >>> HERE <<<
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    They havent really given out any real information about the summoner, so their take on a summoner, could be vastly different from what you think it would be. It could be like a warlock from WoW. Different pets you can spec in, and some abilities besides the pet. Like a mage from EQ1, if you know that class/game.
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    willowisp wrote: »
    Thoughts ?

    My thoughts on this are that we should probably wait to see the skill-set before having such concerns.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/
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