Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
The community has had PvP concerns. You gave us a long form video that did a lot of systems justice.
Pros:
TTK seems to be in a good spot imo at least in its current state
Combat looks pretty fluid
Class kits look engaging
Sound design seems extremely crisp and well done
The Node War seems to have a very good balance of PvE objectives and PvP opportunities
Cons:
Ranged abilities spell/cast range may need to be tuned
Player movement animations while strafing, and a few times during PvP looked a little rough
Short of class balance the combat and overall design look to be heading in a very positive direction.
9/10 Stream Do not regret watching the showcase 4 times.
It looked pretty awesome. I liked the combination of pve and pvp both in the structure of the war and the rewards for victory. The combat also looked pretty smooth (no lag) even with a pretty large group.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Node Wars Preview? (UI, VFX, and performance are things we know need love, and not what we want feedback on currently)
My particular concern is that this seems like another system in AoC where zergs seem to have an overwhelming advantage. I know there are supposed to be systems implemented to allow smaller guilds/groups to compete with larger player numbers, but it almost seems like those situations will be a rare exception. For example, one type of war objective with elite instanced content, but predominantly open field wars.
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I enjoyed the aspects of server wars in GW2 where large groups were throttled by environmental or PvE features. For instance natural terrain might limit volume for a zerg or the defending group has limited use consumable weapons to help balance for numbers.
How did you feel about Mass PvP?
I typically play with a small group. For me, Mass PvP is fun to the extent my small group can contribute without always needing to hop in a giant zerg ball. If mass PvP devolves into a zerg fest, I'm not sure if anyone like to be KO'd 3v1.
How do you feel about the Node Wars Preview?
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node Wars system?
As a player familiar with GW2 WvW and the entire game, which leverages every class and creates every build possible, I find your direction with Node Wars refreshing and appreciate your understanding of similar game modes.
I wanted to see an objective-based strategy incorporated into NvN like GW2 had in WvW. I like the gathering to trigger the main event. It's essential to have objectives that teams of 8 can focus on while the Zerg fight for the bigger purpose. I also like catch-up mechanics. If you fall behind, you have another option or two to return for the win.
That said,
PRO:
The Terrain line of sight and high ground availability for the game during the fight were perfect. Ranged classes, like Ranger, one of my main GW2 classes, were suitable. Finding high ground to selectively pick off the weak team members struggling to regain their health is excellent.
Tank Walls and Sheilds – A lovely touch with the walls that can cut Zerg lines in half, wall them into a kill zone, or block gaps to retreat.
Shields—I particularly like the tank shield options. Some have transparent bubbles for a line of sight, and others allow other defensive options. Having the options to specify is critical for game longevity. The more options that make sense, the better.
I like the fact that a NvN war has phases. GW2 WvW lasted a week, so I hope battles between Nodes last more than 24 hours. Up to 7 no more than 14 days rate occasion 30 days for some epic Vassil Metropolis falling to a war.
Is there anything you’re particularly excited about regarding what was shown with the Node Wars Preview? We value your thoughts on the UI, VFX, and performance, as these areas need more love and attention.
UI:
I like the direction you are going with the UI. It looks clean and makes sense from an MMORPG standpoint.
The Spell Icon looks crisp and informative.
The mini-map looks excellent but needs a filter to find specific options.
The main map looks clean and is starting to look kind of informative.
Appearance, compass, waypoints, coordinates, lock options, expander, location and viewable filters, color and transparency options, pins for waypoints, Quest tracker, etc. I hope you add a lock, zoom-in-out, etc. You need to hire a better UI developer if you don’t know what an excellent mini-map add-on looks like after playing Wow, FFXIV, and other MMORPGs. Group waypoints, anyone? Being able to ping a rally location in WvW or in a group is always nice. Wow allows it, and FFXIV lets you put down raid location markers.
This is a minor detail, but please add POE UI art to each class's character sheet, skill UI, and other screens. Make it pop and put that cherry on top. This will let us know you are paying attention to the little details. Looking at the POE Inventory screen, you see art attached to the dead space. It makes it look more like Middle Earth or D&D custom character sheets. It would be even better if you could cater it to the class and race. POE skill tree, art is added to make it feel like a fantasy game. I hope you do that in this game. You have a lot of art you could incorporate and show off. I hate dead space. It looks terrible, considering the work your UI team has invested in the design you put into the UI already.
Commission System:
The Mayor's War Declaration Commission is an excellent system. Citizens can complete it to go to war or tell the mayor to pound sand. War nodes should not allow citizens to opt out because they are war nodes.
I also really like the fact that you can decide the main objective of the war and the conditions that will be imposed if your node wins or loses. The more options that make sense, the better.
I also would like to see sub-commission and/or war objectives that can augment the number of charges the mayor has of a particular war ability for the raid. Maybe some for crafting certain war supplies, etc., during a phase of the war. That way, losing a war phase and completing a few sub-objectives is not a total loss. I was throwing around some ideas.
I like the fact that alliances can be utilized during Node wars. Game of Thrones-type Eve Online gameplay is always fun. Get your wheeling and dealing, black ops gameplay on. Imagine the stories that will be told around a campfire of how enemies overthrew the XYZ Empire by inflating it within.
The last thing is that you want NvN wars to become static and incredibly dull.
Capture the flag, hold the waypoints, defend caravans, etc., that must be creatively designed. At the very least, I hope it's not static every time that map comes up. GW@ WvW suffered from that.
VFX:
Lighting passes are still needed, and you already know this.
Having character models backlight is hard to look at because it washes out everything.
The warrior wall is red, but I would like it to have an art pass to fit the land's beauty.
Ground indicators tell you what buffs you should stand in and which are the enemies. Without clear indicators of who AoE or ground healing buff you're running into, it is challenging to want to stand in anything.
Ball lighting—It looks better, but I am still not sold on it; at the very least, give the community the option to vote on A, B, or C, so you know you are close and moving in the right direction.
Performance:
I need to play it to know. It is a work in progress, but I saw no rubber banding our clipping.
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
How did you feel about Mass PvP?
I like mass PvP but would like to be able to skip out if I am having one of those days where I do not feel like I am in an all-out war mode. GW2 WvW spent months in those zones where you need a break occasionally to enjoy all the other things the game offers.
Question:
You probably already answered this. What happens when a non-NvN war participant wanders into your all-out war area? If you kill them, do you get PvP flagged by doing that?
Question:
If yes, then that would be a punk thing to do as an ally node to camp the spike, and you nerf the opposing team to massive PK penalties. Insta troll tactic.
What I saw reminded me of playing GW2 WvW, but it was better because it was in the open world, and the chock points and ability to get to higher ground, even by climbing rocks and walls, were better. It looks like you're moving in the right direction. Being able to use your ground mounts and their abilities would be next level. It took GW2 years to add mounts to WvW.
Keep up the great work, and keep finding the fun.
I noticed that none of the quests on the quest board explained what their effect on the node would be. Only the individual turn-in reward is shown. Nowhere on the War Preparations commission, either the mayor tab or the commissions board, did it state that completing the quest would grant the mayor authority to declare war. It is important that citizens fully understand the results of their actions before they make a decision that will affect the node.
The simplified friend/foe indicators are an improvement compared to the ones used in the early siege gameplay. Simplistic icons are better in a chaotic environment like mass PvP.
It would be nice if when a citizen enters an event zone, they are automatically given a pop-up asking if they want to join the raid. Otherwise, they need to scream in region chat until someone can look away from the fighting long enough to invite them.
I am glad to see that there is a place for PvE in wars. Is there also room for smaller events or objectives? Maybe seeking out and killing enemy scouts that spawn in your node could award victory points. Or there could be special resource spawns that will grant points if you can bring them back to your node safely. These can help to fill the gaps between large events as well as provide focal points for spontaneous PvP. It would also help care-bears like me to feel effective in the war without needing to activley seek out PvP.
Maybe another type of event could result in both sides getting some points. Rather than winner takes all, both sides get war points equal to the number of resources/capture points collected with the resource source/capture point having a limited number of points.
I am glad that during the event you can see the enemy progress as a bar, so that you don't know what or how much they actually need.
When Winstead lost the cap point, did they lose all of their capture progress? Seems a bit extreme for how long it took to complete the capture. It would only take one player with a long-range stun to kamikaze and destroy minutes of progress. That may lead to some incredibly long and drawn-out fights. Maybe make a team only lose 20% of current progress when they get driven off the cap?
I would like to see wars last at least around 5-10 days. That way there is an opportunity for the seeds of attrition and economic warfare to bear fruit.
Breaking enemy health bars into quarters and the reason for doing so are both things I agree with, but it will definitely take some getting used to. I would encourage adding a skill, or a series of skills, to the player's general skill tree that increases the number of bars. Having better information on enemy HP would be a viable tradeoff for not taking a damage or utility buff.
Also, Steven, you missed a perfectly legitimate reason to wear an eyepatch. -50 DKP (Dashing, Kool Pirate)!
1. General Node Wars Discussion - How do you feel about the direction Node Wars and mass PvP is moving in based on what was shared during the May 2024 Development Update? What did you enjoy, and what do you think should be done differently?
Im really hoping that wars are a week long series of 7 events. And the side that wins 4/7 of the events wins the war.
2. Territory Control Event - While Node Wars will be made up of several events, what feedback do you have on the specific territory control event shown during the May 2024 Development Update?
Due to the nature of the Territory Control War, you have to travel to the actual territory, which is in enemy territory. Distance and logistics is a large part of War, and since you cant war those in your vassal network, youre likely gonna be traveling a larger distance, which I think is a negative. For other wars, I imagine there will be more of a middle ground.
As for the PvE events that occured (blood and rubies), I wasnt that impressed with the thematics. Like if its a territory war, I would want something more related to taking over a territory, such as placing a bunch of pylons in the area or something, while the enemy tries to remove them. Or something that has more of an aggressor and defender relationship rather than what seemed like a race.
3. Mass Battles vs Small Teams - There are a variety of event types that can be part of Node Wars. What do you think the balance should be between mass PvP battles, and smaller teams working towards smaller objectives?
I think theres a need for both. I view wars and sieges through the lense of a MOBA, so I would view the mass battles as sorta an "ARAM" whereas the small battles would be like fighting for smaller objectives like Baron or other buffs. I think Wars and Sieges should be doing both at once, which I think the Castle Siege in Alpha 1 did pretty well. You had the mass battle "ARAM" at the castle, and the smaller skirmishes at the dragons, both happening at the same time.
4. Node Wars Blue-sky - What types of interactions between Nodes do you want to see during Node Wars? What rewards would be cool? What aspects from other games or popular media would you like to see in Node Wars systems in Ashes of Creation?
I liked the idea of siphoning node XP or gold. I think it would also be cool to force an NPC trade route/caravan to occur where the regional resources of the loser node will get sent over to the winner node. I think this in particular would encourage wars with nodes that are farther away.
This way an advantage will force use of defensive CD's on the opposing side/player by choosing your abilities carefully adding depth, skill cap and increasing the feel of your damaging abilities having more impact on smaller health pools.
The ice block ability in WoW is amazing as you can use it to anticipate and avoid huge damage that would otherwise kill you or escape CC, similarly feign death for hunters in WoW etc. creating epic moments.
You will notice games like Warhammer online lacked these kind of defensive abilities/depth and was what really set WoW PVP apart despite Warhammer online having other great features. Having/keeping your defensive CD's or forcing use of defensive CD's of your opponent creates an enjoyable chess match.
I was a little unsure of war length, though? Seemed to be saying that if you declare war just before Peak time, complete your objectives and win, that the war's then over after just a few hours? Would feel a little underwhelming to have such a short war. Maybe a minimum length of a few days, just to let people get stuck in and make something of it, or retaliate and get vengeance for having lost the war objectives?
i feel it would be nice to have a secondary objective to counter the dragons.
Maybe a balist that you need to gather ressource for and then construct.
There would be only 1 balist that both team could fight for.
On the side, in the middle
My main observation for the god spike is to have some side pathway, back access.
So each team could attack from different angles.
I am excited in seen that they mixed the PvP and PvE fairly balanced and both being equally important for the objective. The concept that Intrepid has in mind is a great idea and at this point would just need to be tested out for improvements.
I know we haven't seen the later phases of the Node wars, but i'd like to see an increase number of objectives added needed to be completed during the higher phases. The smallest team suggested to complete any objective shouldn't be less than 3 people. I'd like to see Intrepid encourage objectives focused on 5+ players. (Excluding the use of archtype specific utility skills).
I really like the various types of node wars that was pointed out, including the territory control rewards.
The medium sized PvP combat that was shown was very exhilarating and I'm hyped to get involved into some PvP action like that. I would've liked to see the "godspike" area to be a bit more strategic with more obstacles and barriers around rather than in the open. It would feel a bit more competitive than just having a zergfest clumped together fighting each other. Have various obstacles where these "godspikes" or "Capture the flag" type objects reside. Make it more dificult terrain. It needs much more variety in location & space. Give players the freedom to come up with strategic placements around the area for ambushes, ranged sniping, hiding, or any other sort of unexpected event. Yes there needs to be room for players to battle but just have more variety around it.
So, I was one of the Clerics in the video. I played Ranger and Mage as well. The 3 ranged classes.
I never needed to use the action camera mode as that would only handicap myself, so there wasn't really any action combat. Many skills don't even work without a target selected, including skills which can be used for mobility like Blitz and Wings of Salvation.
We can target-lock with action camera mode, but it's much easier to just click on the enemy with tab-target camera mode.
As a Cleric, when teammates climb on walls or behind a terrain, it was much easier to just click on their names from the raid UI and heal them without knowing where there are. Now there is nothing wrong with that (I guess?), but the combat was full tab-target for me. I do not understand what they meant when they promised a hybrid combat, when all we got was an optional action camera mode on a tab-target combat.
The counterplay potential and skill ceiling is still almost nonexistent.
If you're like me, unhappy with the current state of the combat, I urge you to speak up before it's too late.
Problem #2,
RNG in combat must go away entirely. RNG-based buffs, RNG CC, RNG debuffs, RNG damage proc.
Good news is, blocking is no longer RNG, it's now active, except it doesn't do a thing besides showing the text "BLOCK" on hit, the damage received is not reduced. It's Alpha I know, but my wish is that it fully blocks the damage, not reduce it. Within a limit, of course, similar to BDO's "Guard gauge", how much we can block is based on the total defensive stats, so Tanks can block more, as they should.
Problem #3 Skill Trees
(Ranger's skill tree)
We had 14 skill points. The new branch-like skill tree is designed in a way which forces us to spend skill points on skills we don't necessarily want, in order to unlock the skills that we want.
Unfortunately, I am not allowed to upload a screenshot of the Cleric's skill tree, but this useless skill costs 5 points to unlock, or 7 points with its 2 passive upgrades.
With that, half of our skill points are already gone on unwanted skills. It's an MMO where choices matter, yet we have no choice? Everything about the combat is too restricting; it's depressing, suffocating.
Problem #4 Class Fantasy/Identity
I've spoken previously about the Mage, this time the Cleric.
Cleric in Ashes of Creation is a healing bot. It has an excessive number of healing skills that do the same thing.
4 AoE heals. 6 quick single-target heals & HoTs, and 2 slow heals.
Alpha2 lvl 15 Cleric has more healing skills than WoW's Holy Priest.
Are we meant to create our own class fantasy and pick only the heals that we want? then the skill tree shouldn't force us to spend points on skills we don't want. It should be based on the total spent points as it was in Alpha1.
We (the testers) did not grind our way to level 15, but if we did, solo Clerics would be spamming only the Wand attack from level 1 to 15 with Smite every 8 seconds. Imagine how unenjoyable that would be.
It's clear that not much thought went into creating a functional class, it's a healing bot.
I've played an MMO (Dragon Nest) with a healer ninja and healer summoner. The class fantasy and uniqueness of our "next gen MMO's" Cleric is a joke in comparison.
One comment said they believe the early levels should be boring, I strongly disagree, this is where you WILL lose most of your player base, especially those new to MMORPG. Make it interesting. Enough with the restrictions, let them try other classes and find the class they enjoy without having to start over, at least until level 25.
Problem #5 Scarcity of Mana and how we have to sit down in the middle of war to regen mana. This image is self-explanatory. Count how many players with less than 35% mana. It's a constant struggle against oneself.
Thank you for reading~!
- I really like that there are PvE and PvP elements to it. a true PvX game! This will incentivize PvE players to participate in Node Wars (something generally seen as PvP)
- some more flexability would be nice in setting the respawn point. great for more strategic plays.
- feels weird that the respawn point is allready set up with tents and what not. the mayor leads choices a point (maybe 4 choices max on map). great for immersion and some bonus points
- Open World NOT Instanced event. those are the best kind and truly fits the game. Some archeage nostalgia..
- PvP, TTK looks great.
- some VFX feedback (altough not requested): it looks great. Many people are criticizing it, but how i see it, going great! only thing that should change is the ranger's spells. too much green neon.
I just wanted to remind everyone that we have a Dev Discussion topic live right now for the Node / Siege Systems in our game, which you can provide some additional and more general feedback not directly related to the livestream. Be sure to check it out here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59546/dev-discussion-64-war-siege-systems/p1
I felt excited because it provides an opportunity for small scale fights, a good reason (a mechanical incentive) to pvp in the zones beyond the sake of it, and I like that the large scale happens at the end as it makes it feel like a great capstone that is almost like a movie climax. Makes a lot of sense and feels "right" as the application of large scale pvp v. small scale.
The top of my concerns (I may have missed the details on this in the video) is I feel like there should be a period between declaration and the war event itself taking place. A time where you're "at war" and citizens of both sides can engage in world pvp to score some victory points prior to the event and logically the preparations for war event are taking place. You could create a cap to prevent zerging or some other systems. I feel like war should have a period of time where both sides feel under siege and have an opportunity to engage in combat in the world with an incentive. Probably just 24-48 hours.
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
In New World I did not like the exclusivity of participation in wars as they were a big part of end game content. There's a lot of differences in participation and number of nodes v. settlements in New World. The takeaway on this is server population should be calibrated to allow for a majority of players to participate in war systems you create in their day-to-day. Not just that you have some randomness to who gets in but that people have a reasonable chance to participate on a semi-regular basis.
How did you feel about Mass PvP?
The specific area it (the last fight over the god spike) took place was tight with not as many ways to engage so it felt a little awkward. A lot of tactics are expressed when there's more ways to engage. That being said, I think having the defender be able to choose from some locations that have different setups like restricted access points and an open field would be great. That way defenders may choose to say "nah I know I'm at a disadvantage we're choosing a place more restrictive to prevent your tactics/advantage" would be even more engaging in the longer term.
What do you believe the perfect balance to be between PvE and PvP objectives?
You have two choices, PvE objectives should help those people PvP through buff or provide a meaningful impact on the overall objective based on the time spent. That is how I see the balance. If this question pertains to how often each should occur I would suggest there to be an even split in the smaller events of a node war. This is where I point to a period of "pre-war" where you can pvp more for victory points and fun (should have less or no pvp death consequences between citizens at war.)
What are your ideal expectations when it comes to mass-player battles, and objectives oriented or best fit for small teams?
I would like the mass battle to be at the end when contesting the god spike. It feels great. Makes sense. And lines up with the general vibe of like movies, books, etc. The end of a conflict is the large scale fight. The small scale pvp and pve should be the side objectives leading up to it that can hedge the end objective to one or the other side's favor (lesser channel time, buffs, etc.)
I do think small teams should have two roles. Contesting/fighting the side objectives and then flanking to fight backlines of the large scale fight over the god spike.
What would be the ideal frequency for events like Node Wars in your opinion? What kind of impact do you want events like these to have on a larger war?
It will depend on the impact it has on the playability of the node during the time and the timeframe a node war takes place. As it looks right now, outside looking in, I think it could be as frequent as weekly or bi-weekly. Anything more than that will make wars feels mandatory instead of exciting. There's plenty of nodes to have wars.
What event rewards do you think would be cool?
Convenience. Enhanced regen while resting. Improved drop rates (amount and rarity) from resources. Enhanced luck on crafting. Things that help take the grind out of the systems you've created but not eliminate them.
The choices you have made look great. The preparation for war is a great way to enable citizens to show support for or oppose the declaration.
The reduced death penalties is fantastic, combined with the objective based event leading to that final meeting for all out war is ideal. I enjoyed watching the tactical gameplay of sending out groups to do different things while one team try to distract the enemy. The spectacle was great, I loved seeing all the magic flying over the battlefield.
My concerns? I guess the only one is of a large node steam rolling their way through the server. This might already be the case but maybe having a system so that if a war is declared between nodes that they can call their allies in for reinforcements. Obviously this would need to work both ways but it could lead to a wonderful battle. Imagine there is a particular node/guild that are steam rolling through and the rest of the server all band together to halt their advance or better yet, defeat them. It could be like everyone in LOTR banding together against the forces of Mordor.
That's about all I have. Looked great. Keep up the great work.
Sorry I forgot to add one last thing. I was watching with speakers rather than headphones so apologies if this is redundant. I trust you're going to have great sound design but if you are able to design it similar to Battlefield 1, that would be fantastic. I don't know how they did it but it really felt like you were IN a war with their sound design and immersion.. That converted into fantasy and feeling like the spells might actually hit you and your tanks rallying everyone with their battlecry, oh that'd be a dream..
As someone who really only cares about crafting, It would be really cool if there was a way for crafters to participate in the battle. Like crafting supplies that give temporary buffs to people. Would be fun to be a crafter following the back line, supplying stuff to those fighting where they can run to the crafters, pick up a weapon (that just gives like a DPS buff) armor (giving a defensive buff), or elixir (some kind of spell casting buff) from the crafters, and rejoin the fight.
Or even a way for crafters to join the fight as a way to make a profit by selling items during the wars. If our real world has taught us anything, there is a lot of money to be made during times of war. Would be a cool feature if big battles like this were a way for crafters to really reap the reward of all of their gathering efforts and crafting in preparation of these big fights.
They could also help tip the scales, depending on what kind of node you are a part of.
I would love to have this put up in a separate post to discuss more if you're willing. I think meaningful talent point choices and the cleric commentary is something that merit's further discussion and would be beneficial for the developers to observe earlier on if possible.
I am really excited about the types of node wars and how different will each be as well as what benefit/requirement,r rewards, duration each will have.
Here is what i'm concerned about as i don't think it was mentioned:
What happens to innocent bystanders during this war?
For example in the area showed can others (ppl not involved with the at war nodes)keep questing? are the quest objectives still there or there are only war related ones?
How do aoe skills behave?
Say im participating in war and an innocent bystander is also there as i use my aoe skils...do i hit him? do i get flagged? or even pk by accident?
This whole situation is gray for me and i will try to clear it up during A2.
I would really like to see how much can a small group influence the war declaration by participating or not on bulletin board mission before a war starts. Requirements for participants and how do you avoid it from being exploited.
Besides the fetch X amount of materials if there are kill quests as well can i, as a citizen, group with non citizens and get higher, greater participation credit? or something similar.
Again i really like guild battles and any "zone" battles especially when the team mates are clearly distinguishable from the enemy. This is where i think we need to have clear visual feedback of all those aoe attacks, spells etc.
The mayor rally skills looked incredible
The mount potential in these battles looked significant with a strategic advantage that can turn the tides of battle even if numbers are against you.
The mass PvP was great in my opinion and in a good spot overall. There is still work that needs to be done ofc.
Also i think it would be nice for the war declaration (or maybe the node siege declaration) to be some kind of escort mission to the opponent node or even just an npc one with a caravan horses etc and a timer that goes to 0 when that caravan reaches destination and everything start.
Just clicking and immediately starting didn't feel too good but maybe it was just for the showcase.
There is no perfect balance and there is no need for it to be.
It would be great if you had pve phases in a war and pvp phases or wars that are more one or the other.
There are so many ideas throughout the years and games that can fit the node wars concept.
You can have objectives and large scale battles. Since distance matters you could have it that if nodes are X far away from each other more small scale battles/events are triggered.
The number of node wars wins could be a condition to be able to declare siege on a node.
Depending on how easy is to start a war i think it should last 1-3 days to give an opportunity to everyone to participate.
I have a dream.
My dream is to be able to buff the whole clan with the press of a button and to be able to visually see it and hear it(as my pc burns to the ground).
Similar to how Overlord was in L2. Not strong individually but you want one in a war.
It would be amazing if a bard or cleric could spec to something similar.
Regarding rewards i liked the things you talked about on stream. Win the area and get the bonus it provides for yourself and if you defend it get a boost maybe for a while.
Unique node rewards as relics or something lore related (economic node merchants are so happy they will get more gold from the war win so you get -10% on X prices etc) and titles for participation in objectives.
Also make it so those rewards are counted not just by kills or deaths. We want our healers and buffers to be able to get comparable rewards for assisting our bloodthirsty frontlines.
Edit: Curious if and how seasons and territory management will play into wars
A very good Comment in my Opinion.
Would it be bad - > if a Mayor would need to be inside his own Node - if he wants to declare a War ?
" Market Crier " NPC's should then run around - and shout and announce and spread the Knowledge of a War against another Node being declared.
Of Course,
the same should happen when One of the two Mayors - or both of the two Mayors involved, declare that the War between their Nodes is over.
Then, the Market Crier NPC's should run around and loudly declare and shout that the War is over.
In the cool Game of " V Rising " - > there exist " Alarm Bell NPC's " in the Middle Section of the Game World and Land, the Farmlands of Dunley.
Guess what happens when they spot " YOU " - as you move your Vampire-Character through the Village they are in. A World in which "Humanity" is at War with your vampiric kind.
They run around, SHOUTING AND RINGING their Bell they have with them - with the Force of a Thousand eternal Twitter- Reddit- or Tik Tok-Virgins, in need of Attention. (lol)
We don't even need anything louder.
Just imagine how much Liveliness and Immersion that will add, if a Level 3 Node or above,
has their own Market Crier NPC's who make a loud Announcement, everytime the Mayor decides something that affects the whole Node in general.
Like the lowering or heightening of Taxes.
Like declaring War or Peace.
Like declaring Buildings like Taverns, or Estates like Freeholds for Sale or whatever. Or maybe Decisions involving Caravans.
Damn i can see it now.
Well, not really. The apparently best MMO Game of all Times is still not ready.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
Would be nice to see something like a ‘total objectives’ map i.e.all steps involved in the war. There’s a lot of things that need to be done and interact so a total picture would be good as well as current objectives.
Some more notifications of what is happening elsewhere in the war would aid response.
The mayoral abilities could be OP, still not convinced about a few people having this much sway over the server.
TTK looks good atm.
Not related to node wars, sorry, but really hope we end up with something akin to ‘Darkness Falls’ from DAOC.
Finally, for the love of god, please make jumping cost Stamina, watching Keenge was painful.
I thought that it was a great preview, especially for an alpha.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node Wars system?
The unknown about it. To elaborate, you may have a "beef" with your neighboring node but possibly think ok nothings going to become of this. Then the next day the war has started.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Node Wars Preview? Nothing right off, also with this being an alpha build and work in progress, i'm confident all of these things will get ever better with time! What i did see though even as placeholders or early iterations look good to me.
How did you feel about Mass PvP?
It looked engaging and fun have to fight in a particular area. With that though having something for PVE and PVP enthusiast is key in my opinion. While the preview did have those elements, I'm curious to see how you can take that further with different scenarios that can occur during these node wars. Which leads into
What do you believe the perfect balance to be between PvE and PvP objectives?
To me this is simple- Just like in the live stream shown, At the POI's that are being fought over have things for both PVE and PVP players to do, but maybe mix up in different ways. Such as the more PVE focused players in one of these battles is gathering materials to make a catapult that can be used to help ward off enemies or even eliminate them trying to channel the godspike. I'm sure you have plans to do different scenarios and looking forward to see what those are!
What would be the ideal frequency for events like Node Wars in your opinion? What kind of impact do you want events like these to have on a larger war?
The frequency is tricky, you want to have them often enough so different players can participate at different times but also don't want to over do it. As its impact on the larger war. The winning node of the node war should maybe have a small advantage given to them if the war would escalate to a node siege possibly. Nothing over the top but something to show for their efforts in the war.
What event rewards do you think would be cool?
Titles, maybe some war node specific cosmetics to show you're a war veteran.
Overall the stream showcase was great! Looking forward to getting to test these things in Alpha 2. Keep cooking Intrepid!
- I think Vassal Nodes should be able to declare war on each other. This can be reduced to not include the destruction of other vassals, but to steal resources and the mayor hijacking type wars. A lower tier Node should be able to take over a higher tier Vassal Node within the same network though (For example a T3 Node attacks a T4 Node, if they win they can switch their Node Tiers or something). This would obviously be very difficult, but should be an option.
- Vassal Nodes should be able to come together to declare war on the parent node. This should be a collaborative effort between the vassals, and require a minimum amount of vassals (50% for example) to agree to declare war. It is idealic at best to believe that a parent node will only have positive contributions to the vassals. They could start unwanted wars with stronger nodes, they could have unwanted policies that the majority of vassals disagree with. There is a lot of politics here that should be allowed to play out by allowing vassals to revolt in a civil war. It should not be easy, but should be possible.
- In the Node War event, I think when channeling the God Spike as a victory condition, the channel time should not reset to 0 when interrupted. I think it should instead decay progress while it is not being channeled.
Combat Systems
- Ball Lightning seems to be a very low impactful skill, especially in pvp. With a long cast time, small hit box, slow travel speed, and low apparent damage, it doesn't seem to have much impact. As a change to this skill, I think allowing it to be augmented, or completely changing it to a Gravity Ball would be a better skill. A Gravity Ball would be much more impactful, with abilities like slowing enemies at the edge of the orb, or sucking enemies in that are in the center and carrying them with the orb. This seems like a much better use for a slow moving ball ability.
- Obligatory VFX comment, mostly around the ranger skills. The green colored ranger skills were incredibly bright compared to everything else.
- The Tank Wall was a fantastic skill, this is a great ability that has a ton of use in both PvE and PvP scenarios. Blocking off areas temporarily/blocking abilities is a high impact skill when used right.
- As was mentioned in a comment during the stream, I also think there should be a noticeable difference between allied AoE and enemy AoE effects. This should be noticeable and apparent at a glance so you know how to position yourself during combat and are not standing in enemy attacks on accident.
Commission Board:
> Descriptions on the commission board seem a little inconsistent - the node is a referred to as a "fair city" and also as a node.
> The commission box is currently quite boring and poses no significance.
War Types:
> It is great that different types of wars can be declared!
> I do think it will be helpful to have a small 'skirmish' type war which is without events and only a single phase, but has an objective centered solely around the protection of the resources in the participating Nodes' ZoI.
> I would also love to see how a 'coalition' type of war would work. I imagine two or more nodes joining a war against a far more aggressive, militaristic node to stop their aggressive expansion could give way to some awesome stories, and develop political intricacies greatly.
> Rather than being told, seeing what other types of wars are going to be in the game and how they would work is definitely very high on my list.
Visuals:
> Notifications need to be a little better at grabbing your attention, especially at important points in the raid (different colour, different sound cue, different design?).
> The Victory notification needs to be way more grand and exciting, both in sound and sight - even Steven didn't notice that they won, lmao.
> Godspike should emit a little bit more of a holy light, showing off its significance.
Other:
> Dragon Divebomb should send enemies flying backwards (supposedly depends on Mount Stats).
> Dragons (or Royal Mounts with true flight in general) could have some kind of awesome, epic mid-air melee fighting animation when they get too close to each other, maybe the damage dealt could depend on mount stats alone.
Question:
> When a node completes an objective at a PoI, how much territory is claimed and does this become part of the Node's ZoI? Is this the only way a Node expands their ZoI/borders, or is it just to take territory away from another node?
Thanks Intrepid for another great stream.
Would love a separate post on this to discuss this topic more with you!
We think it would be nice if a node war would go through different stages through a week. And I think these stages should go both ways. So the node declaring war can also be invaded by the node they are attacking. Would be weird if as a defender you can't cut enemy supply lines.
So stages could be something like this:
1. establish beachhead in enemy territory (warday 1 event)
2. reinforce position (+1 day event / gathering/crafting/caravaning establish steady supply lines to forward base)
3. raid enemy node (+2 day event / multiple events at the same time)
4. defend forward base (+3 day event, after heavy raiding, get ready for vengeance)
5. concluding raid/assault on enemy node city
Obviously these events can take place in both nodes at the same time, forcing nodes to split up their forces. Maybe in this way vassals can play a role, don't know.
2: an event focused on "outgathering" could invite a lot of pvp. Small groups or solo players trying to gank gatherers, pvpers protecting the nodes gatherers etc. Also 3rd party pvp, people willing to go corrupt to steal the gathered resources. This would also make it interesting for bountyhunters, making the node war a hotspot for pvp.
For the different types of war you could define different stages. This would make every war a unique experience. You can even create unique events per node, but with the amount of nodes, this is a ton of work.
However I do have more questions about that mana-regen problem:
- could more mages made a difference? (they said mages could regen mana to a group)
- how often do you had to rest?
I don't have a problem watching my mana consumption. I would love to communicate with my team so we can hold up a nice mana pool/healing wave... . What i absolutly dislike is sitting around all day waiting to fill up some stats so I can have fun.
The perfect balance implies that both PvP and PvE are equally important when it comes to winning the node war and that just slamming face first into the enemy is just as important as completing objectives. In my opinion PvP is main focus of node wars, while the PvE objectives are secondary. I like the idea of PvE objectives being important though, if the PVE and PVP aspects are going to be equally important, then node wars should not be winnable without focus on both PVE and PVP, if one is ignored in favor of the other then you should have no chance of winning.
What are your ideal expectations when it comes to mass-player battles, and objectives oriented or best fit for small teams?
Super-large groups facing off is the best, being a bruiser/tank and jumping into the thick of it, or being a caster/ranged player DPSing in the backline, or rat classes picking off stragglers from the side. For small teams, objective wise, i think its important for everyone to have a role, not all players like PVP, but that doesn't mean they don't want to participate, winning wars doesn't involve pure PVP fighting, smaller groups of players that don't want to directly engage in PVP could be given roles, like repairing base infrastructure if something like that will exist, manning siege equipment or defensive equipment, making sure supplies are being routed to said equipment if it requires it, etc.
What would be the ideal frequency for events like Node Wars in your opinion? What kind of impact do you want events like these to have on a larger war?
In terms of frequency, I think it is most important that as long as the conditions for someone/some guild to start a node war are met, it should be allowed. Artificially limiting when wars can start or how many can be going on at once, or when one can start based on when the last one ended is just taking away the freedom from the player to influence the world how they want to. As far as having an impact on larger wars, I didn't think of anything above node war so far, if there is something larger then I think it's best that the owners of a node would have the ability to participate in said war, maybe like a region or continent war?
What event rewards do you think would be cool?
Exclusive pvp/war cosmetics big time, everyone loves cosmetics. As far as that goes though, consumables that give boosts to offense/defense in pvp, guild upgrades that give minor but global pvp boosts to members.
How do you feel about the Node Wars Preview?
I was surprised at how smooth things seemed to be going, can't wait to try it out in alpha 2 hopefully.
What excites you about playing and interacting with the Node Wars system?
I just like PVP, the idea of coming out on top, whether it be by strategy or just overwhelming the enemy, hard fought drawn out battles are always the best.
Is there anything in particular you’re excited or concerned about regarding what was shown with the Node Wars Preview?
Excited for the pvp like I said before, as far as concerns, it's hard to say since we're only seeing tests and previews right now. One thing I couldn't decide if I liked or not was the health bar not constantly updating, will elaborate on that more down below.
Are there similar systems you’ve seen in other games that you like or dislike? If so, please explain!
I really like how BDO allowed guilds to place and build around their base in node wars, and they were responsible for protecting it, repairing it, and placing down new fortifications if they lost some to keep it alive.
How did you feel about Mass PvP?
The bigger the battle the better in my opinion so im kind of biased here. I just like large-scale PVP.
Other things:
As others have pointed out, health bars, I didn't dislike the idea of the health bar being slightly hidden and only updated every 25% at first, but as I think of it more, it could negatively impact pvp in the long-run. How do I know I am doing any meaningful damage to someone beyond my damage numbers, which may not reflect accurately because of the varying builds that players will have and differing amounts of health, not to mention finisher/execute type abilities will be extremely inconsistent.