Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
to be fair, I have reworked WoW rogues to be incredibly fun. I even made an evasion tank rogue specialization that worked very well. That being said I was purely a design guy and never a coding guy, so I give more props to the guys who were able to make my designs happen.
but arent those 2 different thing? defense abilities and magic missiles are something easily accounted for since you see the mage beforehand and know the abilities range. So you have some action to counter it. Being engaged on and opened anywhere at anytime with pretty much no counterplay is totally different.
yeah you can give them a counter but how would that look like? in a small setting like arena the hunter flare would work but even then its randomly guessing where the rogue might go and hope you hit it in range. hardly a fair counter if he can just sit in a corner somewhere for 3min until everyone gets bored trying to fish him out?
The way I went about it was stealth focused specialization for rogue focused more on poisons and CCs, faster stealth movement, escapes, and greater stealth . They were capable of high dps but less bursty than the other specialization which only relied on a lesser stealth as an opener, and then went toe to toe with whoever they were fighting, focused more of burst damage and bleeds, and less cc but slightly more survivability.
The issue you're concerned with revolves entirely around balancing all classes. And the balance for rogues striking first and hard is generally sacrificing their durability and limiting their range. I am a firm believer in counters and think squishy players are a focus for rogues, while heavy armor classes should make rogues terrified.
but rogues are about high damage and stealth, even those dnd classes you mentioned are
if you start removing those things, the rogue becomes a warrior.
Problem is : in for Example Worst of Warcraft -> you get "forced out of Stealth" already the MOMENT you are in like +30 Meters away from an Enemy Raid. It is like there is a Torrent of Violence and Chaos around the People that automatically flags all Stealth Characters and makes them visible.
When not even clear AoE's are around, or Flares of Hunters. It was the worst during Whorelords of Draenor on Ashran Island.
And only People who have like +2 to +3 ways to enter Stealth immediately can use Stealth "SOMEWHAT" to come close and engage into the Battle without being exposed before they even landed a single Strike. x'D
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Maybe i look after a Guild sometime soon
Yeah, i agree with the counter approach and that certain classes should be having a hard time against one class and easier against others. That being said, even if they sacrifice durability and range, if you give them too much utilities then that hardly matters (old-school rogues come to mind). Im not saying take away stealth. Im saying make stealth work differently that rogues at least have to use some sort of skill, knowledge and observation on how to move to stay undetected. What would you do to make stealth less annoying to play against? What counters would you implement that are actually counters? (Flare removing stealth i dont count since you need predictable skills to land it near the rogue, not even close to even)
I'm not normally a rogue guy. (I did play feral most of my WoW life, which is like a hybrid rogue.) But I think rogue builds have a lot of potential to be intriguing in this game. I mean, there's going to literally be a way to play as a fire-and-ice Nightspell.
I mean other than traditionally blasting AoE, popping defense abilities, using escape abilities, or using stealth detection abilities?
I feel like everyone hates rogues, and rightly so since they were designed to be a nuisance. But if people look back who really played a lot of PvP, you'd realize they died just as much as any other class did.
But to answer you as best as i could, I'd simply fine tune and balance all of those previous types of counters, as well as stealth and the rogues abilities. It's hard to just say I'd do this this and that without a lot of info on every class and their abilities/gameplay.
Luckily and according to the website description, Intrepid is going to follow the more classic archetype.
The Mercenary in DAoC had a skill named Dirty Trick that was more or less that. Melee range debuff that made the target miss most of their attacks.
I found Elyon Assassin really fun. Hopefully Ashes can do something similar.
Can’t see ganking being that much of an issue
All you would literally have to do is make “Corrupted players cannot use stealth” and that would solve it
As it stands for the entire duration of this Alpha
98% of players died to PvE or Environment
2% died to PvP, not bad for a PvX game 😂
Rogues should be permanently stealthed (even if that means Rogue/Rogue archtype) and secondary archtypes can play off that
Was stating the problem not the solution 🤗
The good thing? Steven and his crew have been very quick to respond to this type of play and it's simply amazing how well this development team is responding to community feedback and balancing Steven's vision of the game and what we want out of the game. The Rogue class has been delayed, I fully believe it's for a very good reason and I fully believe they are trying to address a lot of the potential issues with this class before we get our hot little hands on the class.
We shall see.......
That might be the long term shift, for a certain archetype of rogue. I don't know their stated goals for the design.
Problem is Sent/Mara wasn't a rogue class, it was a Berserker class (dual wield/fighter) The rogue classes were Shadow and Smuggler both of which had permanent stealth.
Not to mention Sent /Mara got fucking destroyed by the nerf hammer because while it was insanely fun to play as, but playing against it was a nightmare.
You can have permanent stealth so long as it isn't followed up by a 4 sec stun then, a 4 sec mez then, an 8 sec mez which is enough time to drop combat and restealth and apply the 4 sec stun again.
Stealth should be a gap closer to apply front loaded damage, a long potent DOT or something that goes off 5 secs after application.
This allows for counter play like using DCDs or applying HoTs which gives the rogue a chance to assess what's going on and either continue with the attack, or choose life.
Blown past falling sands…
I expect nothing less than getting one shot by a rogue dropping out of invis from this game. If they surprise me, then I'll be surprised, but I've already steeled myself for the rage induction and frustration of stealthed rogues.
Potions, Cloaks, Rings, Spells -> those things should be all about Invisibility.
Rogues should be scoundrels!
They should take advantage of weaknesses, exploit any opportunity, and be selfishly merciless.