Farm the Crafters
Pawkets
Member
Lately, I have heard an overwhelming opinion that Ashes will be catering to the PvP crowd or this is a PvP game, despite the constant reminder that this is a PvX game.
While we won't truly know if this opinion is accurate or not until we feel it in Alpha 2 there is something I want to state for those who have this view on the game.
1. I have heard the argument that PvP players can sit at the arenas all day without threat or need to participate in PvE content. For anyone striving for competition in PvP they will need to chase their BIS set of gear. In WoW arenas (talking about early TBC arenas as I am not a retail Andy) the best armor for PvP was from arenas, however, the best weapons for arena were the same BIS weapons from high end PvE raids. So while the arena trolls just wanted to PvP most of the high competitive arena boys went out into those raids and earned their DKP in order to get those weapons.
2. I've also heard there is no threat of PvE for people in the open world/open seas. For this, I would again hope for something like what we can see in Sea of Thieves (see my "Everyone's thinking it, I'm just saying it Pirates!" post for more details /smile) However, I think even our PvP Pirates out in the open seas who are only looking to raid, pillage, and plunder without any corruption might run into a kraken like can happen in Sea of Thieves, when this tentacle ______ stops your ship in the middle of no where you got to fight it. I would hope that in Ashes just as there is a risk of PvP at most turns there is a risk of PvE for everyone as well. Thus why they call their game a PvX game.
3. Which leads me to my 3rd point which is: I think is a good solution and balance for this debate. While PvP people seemingly have a protected space to "only PvP all day with no threat of PvE" and the big thing that PvE people want is a place so they can gauge their progression and weekly performance and see they are improving their game play the same as what a PvPer can do in arenas. I suggest there is about a 50% instanced raid content. A place where on a weekly lock out, something that is needing to be group completed content.
All 3 of these points leave out the entire thing that brings them all together and makes these arguments sort of mute in the first place. Even if Ashes has this content that is seemingly geared more towards PvP or PvE -- All players striving to obtain their best in slot gear won't do any of this content for it. They will have to farm the crafters-- They will need to go into the open world and fight both NPC and player to obtain their materials, they will have to move their materials via caravan (watching the caravan showcase the amount of PvE involved in a caravan run between 2 close nodes included:
Parts Purchasing
Tumok Avoidance
Wolf Clearing
Spider Clearing
Rabid Avoidance (No rabids were harmed in the making of this livestream that I noticed)
Bear Killing
Chopped Trees
Terrain Maneuvering
PvE Elite Spawn event
And Route Planning -- plus probably more that I missed
After they've obtained both materials and gold or moved materials where they are needed they will need to get into the good graces of the crafters who if they have previously murdered while said crafter was trying to gather their PvE goods, they will probably get told to pound sand. -- In short, I want this game to stop being referred to as a PvP oriented game, it is not.
We will all need to farm the crafters, and this requires a large handful of PvX.
While we won't truly know if this opinion is accurate or not until we feel it in Alpha 2 there is something I want to state for those who have this view on the game.
1. I have heard the argument that PvP players can sit at the arenas all day without threat or need to participate in PvE content. For anyone striving for competition in PvP they will need to chase their BIS set of gear. In WoW arenas (talking about early TBC arenas as I am not a retail Andy) the best armor for PvP was from arenas, however, the best weapons for arena were the same BIS weapons from high end PvE raids. So while the arena trolls just wanted to PvP most of the high competitive arena boys went out into those raids and earned their DKP in order to get those weapons.
2. I've also heard there is no threat of PvE for people in the open world/open seas. For this, I would again hope for something like what we can see in Sea of Thieves (see my "Everyone's thinking it, I'm just saying it Pirates!" post for more details /smile) However, I think even our PvP Pirates out in the open seas who are only looking to raid, pillage, and plunder without any corruption might run into a kraken like can happen in Sea of Thieves, when this tentacle ______ stops your ship in the middle of no where you got to fight it. I would hope that in Ashes just as there is a risk of PvP at most turns there is a risk of PvE for everyone as well. Thus why they call their game a PvX game.
3. Which leads me to my 3rd point which is: I think is a good solution and balance for this debate. While PvP people seemingly have a protected space to "only PvP all day with no threat of PvE" and the big thing that PvE people want is a place so they can gauge their progression and weekly performance and see they are improving their game play the same as what a PvPer can do in arenas. I suggest there is about a 50% instanced raid content. A place where on a weekly lock out, something that is needing to be group completed content.
All 3 of these points leave out the entire thing that brings them all together and makes these arguments sort of mute in the first place. Even if Ashes has this content that is seemingly geared more towards PvP or PvE -- All players striving to obtain their best in slot gear won't do any of this content for it. They will have to farm the crafters-- They will need to go into the open world and fight both NPC and player to obtain their materials, they will have to move their materials via caravan (watching the caravan showcase the amount of PvE involved in a caravan run between 2 close nodes included:
Parts Purchasing
Tumok Avoidance
Wolf Clearing
Spider Clearing
Rabid Avoidance (No rabids were harmed in the making of this livestream that I noticed)
Bear Killing
Chopped Trees
Terrain Maneuvering
PvE Elite Spawn event
And Route Planning -- plus probably more that I missed
After they've obtained both materials and gold or moved materials where they are needed they will need to get into the good graces of the crafters who if they have previously murdered while said crafter was trying to gather their PvE goods, they will probably get told to pound sand. -- In short, I want this game to stop being referred to as a PvP oriented game, it is not.
We will all need to farm the crafters, and this requires a large handful of PvX.
1
Comments
This is not wow, with its instances. This is closer to L2 which had its arena only during prime-time, so top lvl pvpers had to decide - do they want to get better gear, which always required them to pve, or do they want to sit in the arena in their currently shitty gear. Constantly sitting in the arena would also decrease their chances of being the one who DOES get the gear from pve, because GLs would not appreciate a pvper who's not present at pve. This will be doubly important in Ashes, where all the cool L2's rewards are completely absent, so sitting in the arena brings nothing to the player's guild.
2. The "threat" of pve is that everyone needs to do it. And the only activity that doesn't have pve is the instanced arena. And as I said above, arenas might be limited in their duration, so the overall ratio of any given player's pvp activities might be close to 80:20 open world to instanced, which is the same as pve, except the 80 of pvp will include pve in most cases, so, if anything, pvers are getting more content than pvpers.
3. We don't know how exactly the instanced pve will be designed. It's meant to not be "farmed repeatedly", but if the rewards are cosmetics or titles then you're not really "farming" anything, cause that shit doesn't have direct impact on gameplay. If we don't have repeatable instances with such rewards - I do support their development, but they should be limited in duration/attempts the same way the arenas should be (my example from above is also my preference btw).
Whoever was telling you that either made it up or has been breathing in far too many orc farts lately.
Those are not opinions I have been hearing. Opinions are not facts, there carry no weight. AoC is different than the other games that many have played in the past. Folks tend to assume that what they saw before, they will see again.
A2 isn't released yet, how in the world do people form these uninformed opinions about what it will be like to play! Lord have mercy.
The way it has been worded is "in all the pve content there is a threat of pvp, but pvp content is catered to, and there isn't a safe space for people who enjoy pve content."
Worded by who? Well, I mean the phrasing "safe space for people who enjoy pve" makes this sound like an anti open world pvp post.
Not sure where this thread is going.
It is not a percentage problem, imo, it is a IT EXISTS and I cannot NOT participate problem for them.
I think most PVP focused players cannot understand this.
1) Players will be dealing with the environment and other players simultaneously through-out the entire game.
2) What does this mean? I am not sure what you're actually trying to say. There's not a risk of PvE in any game, it's usually a requirement in any MMO title.
3) I am absolutely vehemently against any type of instancing in Ashes, PvE - PvP or otherwise. It's called a coliseum in a military node.
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Worded by who? Well, I mean the phrasing "safe space for people who enjoy pve" makes this sound like an anti open world pvp post.
Not sure where this thread is going.[/quote]
This is a pro PvX post -- I would argue it is anti world PvP post. But its definitely not an arguement for PvE only.
I resonate with the made to pve part. Steven said wars will cost resources, not gold. Wars will be started with pve. I hope more meaningful functions of the game continue to require pve support to fuel the Ashe’s content. Hopefully we all rise to the occasion to foster functional relationships between pve and PvP communities.
If an individual who is purely pve and an individual who is purely PvP work together than surely both of them will succeed in a node war environment.
2. It's easier to avoid PvE encounters than it is PvP, there should be harsher PvE death penalties than PvP, forcing players into difficult encounters would just be frustrating, using sea of thieves is a bad example as that game isn't anything like what Ashes is aiming to be.
3. No threat of PvE? Still don't know where you got this from, Steven has said before that some of the best gear in the game will come from being crafted with the materials obtained from end-game bosses. PvP players cannot obtain this without it being handed to them from a friend if they only camped the arena all day.
If they lack efficacy of control it sounds like they shouldn't be playing MMOs.
Worded by who? Well, I mean the phrasing "safe space for people who enjoy pve" makes this sound like an anti open world pvp post.
Not sure where this thread is going.[/quote]
This is a pro PvX post -- I would argue it is anti world PvP post. But its definitely not an arguement for PvE only.
[/quote]
Anti World PvP post pretty much makes it antithetical to the design of Ashes.
Having said that, even i don't expect to play an MMO without having to PvP. What is more important is to make sure that the PvPers need PvE. That means I can PvP less and my team-mates can PvP more.
The key point is making PvP players defend as well as attack. It really has nothing to do with the PvEers.
You just have to realize that the world pvp is baked into the design. They want friction to occur between players.
And this is what my post is not agreeing with. Even if you think those games are PVP games, Ashes isn't going to be a PVP game - My argument is: it is purely a PVX even if you feel it is a PVP game. People having their misconceptions about this game and staying stuck in that mindset will continue to think its a PVP game but that is due to them not being able to see the PVX (E) that even PVPers will have to do.
Well I mean if 90 percent of us are not understanding your point then you'll want to clarify it.
Try to boil it all down into just a couple sentences first. Don't talk about what you don't mean, clarify what you do mean.
I've reread my initial post and everything in it is exactly the information that is needed to be included and has a purpose. As I've heard this in different conversations. If you read this coming from a pro PVX standpoint everything makes sense. Reading the responses, it seems people think I am either a PVE or a PVP person. My goal in this is to protect the PVX from the PVE mindset. And I have evidence for what I am saying and even include a solution that will not inhibit or hurt the PVX goal.
That may be true, and you are saying a lot of us are misunderstanding which may also be true.
Can you summarize, in short form, what you mean?
Sometimes it is nice to focus on one or the other. There looks to be lots of PvP only content. Instanced dungeons and raids would be PvE only content. There doesn't seem to be much for low stress gathering. Town content might be good for low stress though.
1- we don't have any info on arenas, only that they exist. we don't know if they will be open 24/7 or not and if they will give you bis gear or not.
2- what do u mean by no pve threat? monsters and bosses can kill you.
3- its not a good solution. we don't even know if there Is even a problem to begin with, as you are describing it. people shouldn't be able to simply log in, do pve dungeons and log off, come back next week and still get their bis gear. it eliminates all the risks. additionally, ashes needs people to be out in the world doing stuff. you would probably need to separate gear into pvp and pve...and so far, you would use the same gear for both.
the only way that could kind of work is if you still needed to do pvp so that you are able to do the pve instance. maybe you can get some pieces of gear from crafting, then some more from doing arena, then the last few from doing a raid dungeon, so players will still need to engage in different type of content instead of just doing one thing then logging off until the reset.
also, this isn't a game for pure pve players, its a game for people who like pvp. pvpers craft too.
so basically you want to separate pve players so they arent murdered by the pvpers, so they don't get bitter and angry and sell gear to the PVP players? what
have you considered that the PVP players can also craft and sell you gear? even if most players wont sell you gear because you killed them at one point or another, the players in your guild will still sell you gear or craft for you. pvpers can craft too.
1. They will not give you BIS gear as that will come from crafters.
2. This is not my point but this is what I've heard stated and I am an advocate for things such as a kraken to come mess up your open seas pvp day. And force pvp'ers to endure difficult pve content.
3. Raid instancing is different than dungeon instancing -- the purpose of this is to gauge your pve skills in a set environment. Just like arenas can gauge your pvp skills in a set environment. BIS gear will come from crafters also if you're the type to want the competitive pve you will no just log in to do that, you will need to farm the consumes and farm the bis gear which is coming from the crafters.
The entire point is by "Farming the Crafters" means you won't be able to live in either instance because you need to work out in the open world, however, I hear the people who want an unobstructed gauge for difficult raid content. 50% raids would be open world, 50% raids could be these gauge raids. But they will have to get their bis gear from crafting either way.
raid and dungeon instances ar the same, you just have different configurations. one allows more people than the other or might have limited entries, etc.
the gear might come from crafting, but the mats might come from these instances, that's why I said you could get your bis from instances. getting the mats is the difficult part, not pressing E on a crafting station in town. the gear basically comes from the dungeons since you need to do them to get the mats (unless you buy them from someone else).
if doing the dungeon doesn't give you anything towards your bis gear, whats the point of doing the dungeon? you could do it for fun or for the challenge, but after one run, the challenge is gone. repeating the same dungeon for no reason gets boring too. no rewards and no challenge.
if you want to gauge your pve skills (lol) you can still do so in the open world. even if you need to pvp for a boss or a farming spot, at some point you will need to actually fight the boss or the mobs. at that point, your pve skills (whatever you mean by that) come into play. pve is still a threat.
In my original post if you read it I specifically say "50% instanced raid content. A place where on a weekly lock out, something that is needing to be group completed content." This avoids things such as a singular person going in and farming the raid repetitively for a gold farm outside of the open world.
I am not one that would want to raid a PVE objective for gear that isn't BIS, however, as stated the complaint is PVP players have an area that is instanced area for unbothered PVP content and so this is a counterbalance to that. The entire purpose is acknowledging the people in the community who have expressed their view that the systems within Ashes are seemingly leaning towards PVP (I disagree with this opinion)
I am not fully sure if you're correct or not in the part about the mats "might come from these dungeons" the dungeons are only quest line. Even so, this is not what I'm advocating for in the least, I am again advocating for PVX and for your best gear coming from open world and crafting.
if you were advocating for pvx, then you would ask for arenas to be removed. why do you want more separation of PVP and pve instead of removing it? you are going in the opposite direction xD
also, it doesn't matter if those people think the game is leaning towards pvp more than pve, because the game is for people who like pvp, specially open world PVP. it would be silyl to complain that final fantasy is leaning towards pve, because the game is for people who like pve.
also, we don't really know how arenas are going to work. we don't know if there will be an entrance limit and what kind of things you get from them. chances are that you only get augments and enchantments that reset per season.
the game already has some instanced content. 50% would be too much. that's basically separating pvp and pve players. consider than even if this is a pvx game leaning towards pvp, you will be doing pve 90% of your time, it just wont happen in instances. if anything, the game needs less pve, so I'm not really sure the game is leaning towards pvp (killing other players). there is still competition though.
Do siege players get a safe area to do sieges against other players without outside interruption by others? Yes??
Do PvErs/dungeon-divers get a safe area to do dungeon crawls without outside interruption? No?
Do Raiders? No?
Do farmers? Mostly no? With some very limited freehold plots, but are those open to being attacked if standing outside?
Do explorers/achievers? No?
>>That's a PvP centric design.
Just call it what it is.
I'm good with it as it stands.
Though the ugly "lie" seems to be pushed for sales.