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Open World Raid Boss Respawn Timers

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Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    if you give players from multiple guilds the ability to end an attempt, I see no reason why you wouldn't simply end the attempt if you weren't winning.
    Track the group who did the first hit on the boss (with a timer on it, of course), then apply the wipe mechanic to those who're not included in that group, if this group2 have been around the boss (and especially interacting and/or flagging around it) for a while. Or at least the first ones who get hit with the wipe is group2 and only after that group1 gets hit (depending on how the particular wipe mechanic gets triggered).

    Give players a few tools that interact with this mechanic, where maybe you can sacrifice your group's aggro listing to change the "first hit" value to your group. This would make group2 do dmg to the boss first (helping group1), which can not only help them overtake looting rights, but also avoid a group2 wipe mechanic (which imo should be triggered more easily/often).

    All of that while the hazards are boosted around group2 (because they are the ones that triggered the anti-zerg mechanics), so it'd be harder for group2 to gain the required aggro listing.

    Then the aggro listing itself should have several interactions and mechanics related to it, so losing it might aggro the boss onto the "newcomers".

    And again, all of that is just the most surface lvl stuff that I came up with on the spot. But imo all of that would be way more interesting than just aggro control or simple PKing.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 14
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    if you give players from multiple guilds the ability to end an attempt, I see no reason why you wouldn't simply end the attempt if you weren't winning.
    Track the group who did the first hit on the boss (with a timer on it, of course), then apply the wipe mechanic to those who're not included in that group
    Cool so I use ungrouped guild members (or even non-members - paying for things like this isn't unreasonable) to kill off your attempts at mobs that I got first hit on.

    If the fail condition doesn't cause everyone to wipe, then you simply use sacrificial groups to eat up those fail conditions.

    It being a full wipe of everyone present is a requirement.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Cool so I use ungrouped guild members (or even non-members - paying for things like this isn't unreasonable) to kill off your attempts at mobs that I got first hit on.

    If the fail condition doesn't cause everyone to wipe, then you simply use sacrificial groups to eat up those fail conditions.

    It being a full wipe of everyone present is a requirement.
    Like I said, what I suggested is the most surface lvl stuff, all of which can be tested and adjusted.

    I'm just sad that everyone is completely content with going for the usual crap, w/o asking for something more.

    Obviously there'll always be some way to game the system, just as bosses can be cheesed somehow or how devs can sometimes miss a particular build/interaction that lets players make a boss way easier for themselves. But I'd still prefer if devs at least tried implementing something deeper than what most games have.

    And even if bosses still end up being in semi-/instanced locations - the mobs could still use those new mechanics to make the pvx more interesting.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 14
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    But I'd still prefer if devs at least tried implementing something deeper than what most games have.
    That's the thing to keep in mind here, what we are talking about isn't a new problem - it is a problem that has been around for at least 25 years. It is something that people with Masters (and a few PhD's) have spent years trying to solve. It isn't something you or I are going to solve here.

    However, if you look at the problem of encounters being shallow, of players wanting better, deeper encounters, - if that is the problem you are wanting solved - that problem has been solved for over 20 years.

    Open world encounters in a PvP enabled setting need to be HP sacks. If you want deeper, you remove that PvP option. You remove the ability for anyone outside of the group or raid to influence either side of the encounter. If you want to keep that outside influence in tack, you revert back to sacks of HP for encounters.

    But then, we have discussed this at length in the past.
  • iccericcer Member
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Dimitraeos wrote: »

    Again, if people see pvp as "interrupting content", then why can it not be mirrored by the other side? If anyone can just come and attack you while you're doing whatever - why can't someone else use a mob to retaliate against that person?

    Because you are looking at it from PvP-ers perspective.

    Most PvE players have no wish to do so. They don't want to interrupt and mess with other people's content (you could say they don't want to PvP), they just want to complete their own.

    I know the conversation has moved on since then, but I just wanted to reply to that bit.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    iccer wrote: »
    Because you are looking at it from PvP-ers perspective.

    Most PvE players have no wish to do so. They don't want to interrupt and mess with other people's content (you could say they don't want to PvP), they just want to complete their own.
    The "someone" I mentioned can be the person who got attacked by another player in the first place.

    Several people in these kinds of conversations brought up the issue of "pve has no impact on pvp". And I suggest that it should.

    Obviously majority of pvers wouldn't want to use mobs to explicitly attack others, but they should be able to use those mobs to their own advantage when a pvper attacks them. The pve should be able to come in-between the pvping players and have a direct impact on it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited July 20
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Several people in these kinds of conversations brought up the issue of "pve has no impact on pvp". And I suggest that it should.

    The problem with this is that if I am attacking you and don't want you to be able to use PvE to your advantage, I simply attack you while you are not near any PvE mobs.

    It isn't as if the world will be so packed full of mobs as to make this difficult.

    That is why PvP can be a factor in PvP, but not the other way around. Players have complete agency over where PvP happens, but developers dictate where PvE happens.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    It isn't as if the world will be so packed full of mobs as to make this difficult.

    That is why PvP can be a factor in PvP, but not the other way around. Players have complete agency over where PvP happens, but developers dictate where PvE happens.
    Well, that's simply a difference in expectations. I do expect mobs to be very populous. Even attacking someone in a node center would still be close to guards, which are npcs.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    It isn't as if the world will be so packed full of mobs as to make this difficult.

    That is why PvP can be a factor in PvP, but not the other way around. Players have complete agency over where PvP happens, but developers dictate where PvE happens.
    Well, that's simply a difference in expectations. I do expect mobs to be very populous. Even attacking someone in a node center would still be close to guards, which are npcs.

    What we will find is that mobs in areas with mobs are reasonably well packed, but there will be space - a lot of space - between mob areas.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    What we will find is that mobs in areas with mobs are reasonably well packed, but there will be space - a lot of space - between mob areas.
    We'll have to see. I like worlds filled with mobs, so I personally hope that's the case in Ashes.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    What we will find is that mobs in areas with mobs are reasonably well packed, but there will be space - a lot of space - between mob areas.
    We'll have to see. I like worlds filled with mobs, so I personally hope that's the case in Ashes.

    Since I am talking about places like roads, I can't imagine how bad an MMORPG would be if these were littered with mobs. We are talking ARPG type world building at this point

    There will be areas in which players can traverse the world that are generally free from mobs. You will not need to fight your way from one town to the next if you are following the roads.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    There will be areas in which players can traverse the world that are generally free from mobs. You will not need to fight your way from one town to the next if you are following the roads.
    But those places would then depend on mob leashes and roaming mobs. We've already seen that mobs can attack caravans/people on roads, so it's obviously possible and is in the game even now. If leashes aren't too short, then I'd totally expect people to be able to bring pve onto the road if the think they might need it to help defend themselves.

    But even outside of that, if mobs are close to the roads, if anyone gets attacked on the road they can just step off it and use the mobs to help themselves out.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    There will be areas in which players can traverse the world that are generally free from mobs. You will not need to fight your way from one town to the next if you are following the roads.
    But those places would then depend on mob leashes and roaming mobs. We've already seen that mobs can attack caravans/people on roads, so it's obviously possible and is in the game even now. If leashes aren't too short, then I'd totally expect people to be able to bring pve onto the road if the think they might need it to help defend themselves.

    But even outside of that, if mobs are close to the roads, if anyone gets attacked on the road they can just step off it and use the mobs to help themselves out.

    Roads won't be lined with mobs just waiting for players to step off.

    If I am attacking you, I get to pick when and where. Making that somewhere where you don't have any mobs that could assist you will not be difficult.

    The idea you have that players should be able to use PvE to assist them in PvP is fine in theory - but it won't work in practice.
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