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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
even in the game infantry, groups were created just to roam the map killing people and stacking bounties to earn money, there was also solo players going after people with big bounties as well as engineers and medics who were out farming resources.
I honestly feel like this is the only instanced pvp you would need that doesn't impact the game world like sieges and wars. the small team stuff like 3v3 can be done outside in the world. I know in NW there was a lot of time spent dueling and people would bet in game currency in discord on who wins the fight. could definitely see the same thing happening if enough people want small team v team battles (just flag for a dual as a group) that way it can be 2v2 up to whatever the group/alliance size is
I am all for keeping as much to the open world as possible, but content is consumed faster than it can be put out and MMOs need something to keep people busy, that's why most of them have arenas
Pvers have already used arenas as the main argument for why they should get repeatable instanced content. And I completely agree with that argument. Except I want neither group to have repeatable instanced content.
I completely disagree with this position because it's this kind of thinking that has diluted every damn game out there. You start with "let's have something that appeals to a broader audience", then this broader audience complains and pushes for even more content that appeals to them, and by the end your game is changed so much that you have completely lost your main target audience, while this broader appeal has diluted your game past its uniqueness and this broader audience left to play other games that specialize in their preferred content.
I'd rather have a niche specialized game that only appeals to its audience than a vague mess that barely appeals to anyone in particular. And if that niche game is great - it'll attract people naturally, because those who're playing it will share their hype with their friends and spread the word about the game.
I agree thats why I said it would be best to prioritize the pvx stuff to maintain the identity of the game, but I don't think its as black and white as that, I think its more of a sprectrum and a matter of degrees. You can still have the focus on a certain type of content while still including other types of content, as long as you satisfy the needs of the target audiences, I think the problem starts to form when you swing the pendulum too far in another direction where you cant keep up with the needs of the main target audience, or when the needs of a different audience cause decisions to be made that have too much of a negative impact on the experience of the main target audience. Again, I don't think this would be the case by simply adding instanced pvp content for players who desire that, because players are going to play how they want and if they can't meet their needs with one game they will just play a different one, so I don't think this would have any effect on the experience of the pvx players other than a potentially positive impact by drawing more players to the game.
Its so obvious i don't see how people don't see this. It be one thing if someone was arguing about arenas giving pvp gear. My guild was raising a eyebrow hearing about this talk about no arenas or mobile style ones where you only can do it a few times during a certain time of day.
The moment you need to protect your node, get your own gear, etc means the priority is pvx gameplay. Which is good but it doesn't mean people won't enjoy arena during times there is less going on.
This is also why i hated the argument about being forced into pvp because it raises the question of pvp happening even more often. IS is definitely going to be going for a balance and not going to kill of their game by having everyone forced into pvp every second (obviously not every second but you know what i mean 2-4* the amount)
I've seen Nikr argue not wanting the game to die off yet every time I see these suggestions on the super niche level that would hinder growth.
you realize MMOs used to not have mounts, your argument would be like me saying Ashes shouldn't have mounts because old school MMOs didn't.
there's gonna be arena play, it's always incentivized cause it gets dull and boring. if you make it fun you won't have to hand out rewards that take away from playing the actual game so you don't end up loosing any immersion
Also, I'd support a no-mount design, because it'd lead to more PKs which means more targets for BHs
All of us want at least a single thing that someone else here doesn't want. I just want a lot of things that a lot of people don't want (on both sides of the pvx spectrum).
There is much more nuance to people choose to do arena over OWPVP just because there area arenas. You can make a argument some people on BDO spend a lot of time doing pvp in arena. The quest is the cause and effect of why someone will do that, in BDO's cause it is the lack of Owpvp and the regression of ability to do it.
I'm sure there are reasons for Linage as well on why there wasn't as much owpvp based on the systems and effects in game. This is a common issue with older games do to lack of content or heavy consequences. That is why saying this point on its own doesn't really stack of.
You are effective trying to push for a niche game that isn't going to be good because you want L3, and L3 already exist as throne and liberty. Pushing towards that will end up as a dead game, there is no reason to hyper alienate all players to make a niche game that isn't going to draw people.
If there is a reason why people are not doing OWpvp that issue needs to be solves on its own to get people to do that. In AoC it would mean the game has failed to deliver on their systems, because unlike other mmorpgs this game really is giving a lot of OWpvp for players to do tied to rewards, consequences, growth and drama.
This is why your point is you just don't want it just cause. And you aren't making a clear point on why current systems won't draw enough Owpvp engagement. To the point you even admitted even if its just 5% of players avoiding owpvp to do arena you want them forced as well. Which brings up the point it isn't about having most players doing owpvp it and just about you not wanting arena without a clear point to go against it.
And if 5% of concurrent players are sitting in an instanced thing - that's 5% of server slots not being used by people who would've been existing in the open world. And I'd prefer if everyone in an owpvx game were in the ow doing pvx things
This is the issue you are so stuck wanting L3 and AoC is not L3, issues and how the game played are going to be different in AoC. AoC isn't going to go down the round of extreme niche for no reason so it dies off.
You are trying to turn a non-issue into a issue because you don't like it. Which isn't creating a strong argument for what you are trying to complain about. This goes into the category of people thinking mortal online 2 is the best and AoC should copy their hardcore mechanics, even if it means a dead mmorpg.
What you should be concerned about is such things not taking away from OWPvP Ie being able to gear from it or progress, or a lack of OwPvP content that is interesting and engaging for players.
Wanting good content that draws players wins over forcing players any day of the week. But either way your concern for arena really doesn't make a lot of sense as well as your example based on AoC and their direction.
In other words, I literally want the opposite of what L2 had, so no, this is not the case where I want L3. This is the case where I dislike instanced content, as I've always had. I dislike it when it's pve and I dislike it when it's pvp.
My argument makes perfect sense and you aren't grasping it, you point doesn't really stand as there is cause and effect. Older games had less content to do, and less importance on it that extends to owPvP. Saying people are in arenas in a older game does not match AoC. Issues L had will not match AoC the content loop is completely different.
You make content to attract people to do that, you don't remove content because you are worried people will do it. Your worry for taking away from OWPvP doesn't make much sense, as progression is tied to open world pvx content + around the content being important as well as fun.
In short your fear of people not doing owPvP in AoC doesn't really seem to be founded based on the content loop. There will most likely be more people trying to avoid pvp than ones that will only want to pvp in the arena.
Even if for some strange reason 50% of people didn't do any owpvp and only did arena (obviously an exaggeration just for that point). The devs design had failed and they need to rework it and change the design for owPvP and such to be more appealing to players.
You going down this road on adding mobile mechanics when people can and can't do content is one of the absolute worse things to do in a game, forcing everyone into more pvp just for arenas is going to push more people away from the game, removing arena style gameplay that is based on fun and not actual gear progression has no benefit except for killing content in the game.
Whats better,
A- certain people not playing AOC at all (and thus not playing in the open world) because they are salty AOC limits their preferred content type
B- those same people playing AOC arenas occasionally and also playing open world content when they feel like it?
Because I can tell you there are players who would be salty enough to just not play AOC if it doesn't give them the option to play how they want, so at that point you are choosing between A or B.
And to clarify, this isn't about the "this game isn't for you then" argument like some people might want to derail the discussion towards, because that only applies when the designers have to choose between pleasing one side or another, and it does not apply when they have the ability to please multiple types of players through the design.
Not saying that is the case I'm bringing up multiple points that can be a reason. The idea is there was was not enough of a reason to partake in open world content to the point people can focus on arena. Or things in place that prevent people being to more freely pvp.
Back in Everquest days alot of the places had fake walls sometime u couldnt tell the difference aother times there be slight hints like it look like it out of place slighly finding the qeynos sewers in EQ but noticing a wall slightly off and u decide to walk through if a like wtf moment ohh what have i stumbled across (In the first case it was getting lost in the sewers for 45 minutes was a blast)
But i honosty would love to see illusional walls in AoC where they look like walls or floors but there not
If you're attracting people interested in arena - they'll be mostly interested in arenas, so they will be mostly playing arenas. And if you allow them to play those arenas as much as they want - they'll do that.
Same as it would've been the case with instanced pve. And on the note of instanced pve
Time lockouts existed way before phones had games that could utilize that mechanic. This is not a mobile thing. It's simply a limitation thing to either prevent people from overdoing it, or to funnel people together for better results.
I guess all the sieges and wars should also be changed, cause they're only active during prime-time, right? Cause that's so mobile
To me, A, because those people not being in the game means that servers can fit more people who want to pvx, rather than sit in arenas.
You all cope and hope that arena players will magically get pulled into other stuff, but imo it's the same as instanced pve. Anyone who's asking for it, would be spending absolute majority of their time in it, because that's literally what they prefer. That's the whole point of a preference.
Sure, they'll spend some time gearing, just like everyone else, but as soon as they get to a certain point - they'll be arena sitters, because that's the content they came for (if they were appealed to with it). And then if that arena is also cross-server (which has been discussed in the past iirc) - they can literally sit there forever, because arena sitters in other servers will provide them with content.
Both. And I say both because only the top player of a class would get a great piece of gear, while others mostly got enhancement items, so a lot of people sat in arena just because they liked 1v1 limited-buff pvp.
And with Ashes also having those enhancement items as rewards for arena - people will 100% minmax the shit out of arena farming. And if arenas are unlimited, that means this minmaxing can take all of their time. And god forbid those items can be traded, cause ooooohhh boi, there'd be literal arena farms if that's the case.
And L2's rewards were already a pull for players even before the gaming culture became super singular and ego-centered. These days everyone wants to prove themselves as the best pvper and want the pvp arena to be as equalized as possible too (because this makes it easier to get into it asap).
This is the only argument that needs to be made. It's one of the core elements that Intrepid wants to do differently. I'm not opposed to arena / battleground gameplay in general, but it belongs in this game as.much as a dungeon queuing system does.
Thank you, ChatGPT!
Well, I think this idea is a waste of time in Ashes, it is a whole new game mode while there's so much to do, so much details about the core systems no one knows about. Also, there's no much point in playing this, it's not real pvp a not real pve either, also makes no sense in node stuff
However, this idea about be useful as an event in the node wars, and then it would make sense and be fun
I don't think it would require magic to get players to bounce between content types, I would say its pretty common for players to change moods and play different types of things based on their mood. There would be a lot of players who would play both arenas and the open world, and who would be pretty salty if the game didn't let them play arena pvp when they want to play it.
Want to fight in an arena? Go to an open world one and do that. Want to fight a boss? Go to an open world one and do that. All's equal.
You are trying to skew it in a way and not understanding the point I'm making. Because you already convinced yourself arenas bad no matter what and force people to do more pvp than normal. This is why post get so long cause you are trying to find a way out to think you are right and making me repeat past points again.
Where do you see in these post people talking about gaining gear or such or creating reasons people need to do arena towards any kind of progression or influence on systems in the world. None clearly you are taking my point about attracting people to content and removing the context to fit your own narrative.
That is a mobile mechanics 100% you want people to do it a limited amount of times. I'm not trying to argue the prime time thing because for you that doesn't make your argument make any kind of sense since you want people pvping. But you have arenas going on prime time which makes your whole point not make sense. The core of it is you just don't want people to do arena.
I'm going bold this point, as this is just you being disingenuous at this point. Wars and sieges happen during prime time because of the consequences and giving people plenty of warning and ability to respond than being offline raided. You trying to make this point again proves what i said that you have 0 point or reasoning for this. You just don't like arena and aren't making any kind of argument but feelings.
From the very start I simply said "I don't want people to sit in instances". You obviously do. Great. That's your feedback to Intrepid. I gave mine and then spent 1.5 pages explaining why I gave that feedback.
There's never been any argument outside of "I don't want people to be in instances", because there doesn't need to be one for a preference.
My whole point is most people are not going to be sitting in arena instances all day. Issues with L2 do not make sense to relate them to AoC. Issues in L2 with people doing arena is more of a lack of content / PvP issue.
And there is no reason to take like infinite spots of land for arenas pointlessly to have it in the open world as well.
Your points are not strong for your feedback it is akin to feelings. You aren't making solid arguments why people are going to be in area over gearing and protecting their land, and owpvp events. Which should be the bare minimum for you to be making a argument with feedback.
To repeat this extra again, saying L2 had a issue does not mean there is a issue with arenas, that means there is a issue with how the OWpvp content worked and game design in general.
Edit* in fact doing a search shows you get items from arena in L2 connected to character growth from what I see.
It's not about issues in L2. It's about issues of an ow game having a choice of not participating in that open world.
As long as there's a choice - people will choose it. And when half of arguments for arenas has been "we need them to appeal to people who like them" - the entire point of that argument is that those players will make the arena choice way more often than any other player. And the more such people you "appeal to", the more people will take up server slots, while not participating in the open world.
At the end of each season, a player's cumulative score may unlock various rewards.[14][2][15]
Gear enhancement rewards.[15]
Achievement ranks.[15]
Purchasing power (Currency).[15]
Potentially more granular player health bars.[16]
The enhancement and currency alone will make people grind arena to the max, especially if it's in any way tradeable.
This is why I keep saying you are wrong as you need to actually progress in game to get further. You can't just spam arena and only pvp to progress meaning you will have to do things in the open world. Effectively you are making it up that too many people will only do arena and it doesn't make sense. People that want to focus on PvP will do pvp content in the game not just arena but might do that more so during down time as I've already said.
As i said before if its only 5% that try to avoid all pvp and only do arena you really shouldnt be complaining about that. More than likely people that only focus on arena gameplay will be a smaller faction and those tend to be more pve types of players. As AoC is PvX you are going to get more pvp types of players and those players enjoy all forms of content but won't be in arena all day even during prime time.
The point people are making is that the game is appealing to the PvX design not the arena gameplay. So it isn't going to take away from the open world content. Though its expected some players will try to avoid open world pvp arenas or not so it doesn't really matter. Arenas actually help get people more into PvP in general and get them more comfortable and learn faster.
Enhancement is the only thing there you can make an argument for power and we know nothing about it. But it doesn't even remotely match L2 from what i saw on some of the rewards you can get from going arena. You can not compare these two things and say there was a issue with L2 so AoC will have the same issue. They are entirely 2 different games with AoC leaning towards much better owPvP. People will be more ingrained to protect their node.
*edit
And if you want to argue for any item at all being removed that can give any kind of power that is the better direction to go for what you believe in. Trying to say no arena or mobile style arena is silly. Lack of content and too much forced pvp would be the death of AoC. Rules need to be in place to give the casual player a breather. And when less is going on some players might do some arena for fun, testing things out, or practice.
I'm just curious if it's insentivized too much. The way I see it is people in MMO want more pvp. That's where arenas come into play. But they all do even teams vs eachother.
In sense this leads to doing the same thing over and over while foliwng a meta strategy. People complain so instead of fixing the pvp they add gear progression and other rewards that shouldn't be there.
My idea was tried and tested in infantry and it was amazing, plus I think the dynamic gameplay it offers compliments MMOs where the 20v20 is more like how a shooter game is set up.
I bring this up as a way to stop having to add highly insentivized arena play and stop people from grinding it out for hours on end and let it be something people just go have fun with
Regardless of idea i generally view arena as a way to have fun and mess around in, or have some more competitive small fights against other people queing. Which I'd see in like a 4v4, 8v8 kind of thing. Not actually gear growth or such, most people aren't going to b sitting in arena all day it wouldn't make sense.