DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Yeah, I'd like to see how the players on a low pop server feel about the gameplay.
Also, what would happen when some mega-guild jumps on to raid some Castles.
That is a financial reason to do it, but the main reason to merge servers in a game like Ashes is about gameplay. As pointed out above, a low population server where there just aren't enough people around to provide the risk elements that Ashes is built on would essentially be broken.
The financial reason i can understand. The gameplay stuff I can only agree to if the userbase on the low pop realm is actually requesting a server merge.
Ashes is a game where not everyone gets everything. A lot of people are already resigned to that. People on a low pop realm that like that way may not care about the things they are missing out on because they weren't planning on doing that content anyways.
Some people may only want to craft things in this game and sell them to people and not do the caravans, should they get kicked because they don't want to do all the content?
Not only that, but there may be userbase fluctuations throughout Ashes of Creation's lifecycle. Do they really want to kill a whole bunch of realms with <30% regular pop (3k users) that have realm histories where people care about their contribution, only to bring back fresh realms half a year later because of increased interest in the game?
The financial issues are in and of themselves enough of reason, however I also think the gameplay issues are enough of a reason.
It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.
It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.
I just find this line of reasoning so hard to understand.
So does that mean if a player wants to just do commissions and side quests near a safe town and just chat and trade and never do any caravans, it shouldn't be up to them?
What about being in a large guild conglomerate that owns a whole bunch of nodes. Seems pretty easy, not up to them though?
It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.
I just find this line of reasoning so hard to understand.
So does that mean if a player wants to just do commissions and side quests near a safe town and just chat and trade and never do any caravans, it shouldn't be up to them?
What about being in a large guild conglomerate that owns a whole bunch of nodes. Seems pretty easy, not up to them though?
If wants to run low risk content, then they can have at it.
They get the reward that is appropriate for the amount of risk they are putting themselves under, and that risk and reward is largely the same on all servers.
If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.
On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.
These are different things - one is meeting a challange (large guild), one is working within your risk acceptance (running side quests), where as the other is just not having the challenge at all.
Not only that, but there may be userbase fluctuations throughout Ashes of Creation's lifecycle. Do they really want to kill a whole bunch of realms with <30% regular pop (3k users) that have realm histories where people care about their contribution, only to bring back fresh realms half a year later because of increased interest in the game?
Again, you're painting it way too dramatically because you're not engaging with more positive ideas of how the process might go; all of which is a result of this thread being a meta discussion of a general topic without any connection to specific direct discussions of the topic and their conclusions.
I think if you take a look at some of the more fun solutions in these threads, you might agree that the more pertinent discussion isn't "do we need to merge at all," - as evidenced by the way you treat the prospect of a merger in your discussion as something destructive by default - and instead "how do we orchestrate the mergers which do end up being necessary, in order to respect players' time investment and avoid making them feel like we're destroying the world they've built and achievements they have made?"
Also keep in mind: If you take one 1000 player realm, and you merge it with another 1000 player realm, it's not like it's suddenly packed, or like the power structures of the old realm will be wiped out.
(Obviously they shouldn't let realms get so low that one realm might then quickly undergo 4 mergers in quick succession as more players jump ship, which is a possibility if the numbers are picked too small. 1000 is a random ballpark number; the game itself will probably offer far more useful metrics for how low the player count can go before too many nodes will be neglected and the economy and liveliness will suffer too much, before a realm is at risk of going multiple mergers in succession)
Another fun and obvious addition to the initial solution offered in the second thread (and linked in the first) could be to give the "losing" realm tools to reinstitute their known node for structure on the new realm they are colonising, by giving incoming players cheaper and prioritised access to node citizenship in the places they were used to.
It doesn't have to be destructive, it can just be a new challenge to live through.
Anyway, I think the solution is to combine the best of all worlds (pun):
- Reduce the amount of merging needed by managing realm population and limiting the amount of dying communities in the first place.
- But if a realm does crumble faster than any reinforcements can cover, have a backup solution that feels like a fun new challenge while preserving as much of the existing realm lore as feasible, to making the new introductions to it interesting, instead of disconnected to the point of inspiring nihilism.
The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.
On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.
And what about the realm that starts as high pop (like all the realms), but then large guilds dominate (like you are saying) and take over areas and people start to quit or migrate to other realms, causing the realm to become low pop and dominated by just a few big guilds.
Time to merge them i guess? Regardless of all the work and effort these guilds put into taking over their realm?
0
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 18
Low Pop Realm would have lower Risk from PvP, but should have increased Risk from PvE - due to rampant World Corruption.
(Also more challenging to construct and maintain Metros)
Yeah, I'd like to see how the players on a low pop server feel about the gameplay.
Also, what would happen when some mega-guild jumps on to raid some Castles.
If Nobody can really do anything with their Nodes, because there is either missing Competition "OR" Allies,
then People will most likely switch to/seek another Server - or leave the Game entirely.
If some "MEGA-Guilds" can jump and raid any Castle, Node, whatever - without even the WHOLE. REST. of the remaining Server being able to stop them,
hence basically being reduced to their "living NPC-Toys" forever,
then that can lead to either mostly Everyone of these other People wanting to "join" the MEGA-Guild - ooorrr leaving the Game entirely.
Both of these are things that could ruin and end a whole MMO. These are nice Reasons to do something against that. Of Course You "WILL" without fail have People who always have something to nag and whine about anyway,
and some People will leave the Game anyway sooner or later -> but still there is always Reasons to make Decisions that benefit most of the Community playing the Game.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
They could make a world event on low pop servers...where the world starts to fall away...get smaller. Unless enough ppl get together to stop it, via difficult quest lines.
This would make oceans shrink...the land mass shrink, until the low pop isn't as much a problem.
Just a thought.
It would suck to merge realms, and everybody losses everything they had land/homes, etc.
I believe the low pop would merge with a high pop. Does this mean the low pop has to fight as a homeless to get land in a high population server? Is it a wipe, and everybody has to start fresh...wow wouldn't that suck for the high pop server...you didn't do anything wrong. Realm is running great...then bam...little guy wants a house...so sorry...WIPE time
If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.
On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.
And what about the realm that starts as high pop (like all the realms), but then large guilds dominate (like you are saying) and take over areas and people start to quit or migrate to other realms, causing the realm to become low pop and dominated by just a few big guilds.
Time to merge them i guess? Regardless of all the work and effort these guilds put into taking over their realm?
Realistically, with the server population Ashes is looking to have, if an alliance is able to run everyone else off, it probably has the population needed to support a server by itself.
You seem to be over thinking this in order to attempt to rationalize Intrepid keeping low population servers. That is the wrong way to approach this topic, imo.
2
DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If some "MEGA-Guilds" can jump and raid any Castle, Node, whatever - without even the WHOLE. REST. of the remaining Server being able to stop them,
hence basically being reduced to their "living NPC-Toys" forever,
then that can lead to either mostly Everyone of these other People wanting to "join" the MEGA-Guild - ooorrr leaving the Game entirely.
Both of these are things that could ruin and end a whole MMO. These are nice Reasons to do something against that.
Steven already has some plan for Realm Merges, regardless, but...
It's up to each Realm population to react to Mega-Guilds dropping in to take over a Metro.
That might trigger the non-MG folk to request a Realm Merge.
Or they might enjoy the new challenge of becoming Allies vs the Mega-Guild.
It's up to each Realm population to react to Mega-Guilds dropping in to take over a Metro.
That might trigger the non-MG folk to request a Realm Merge.
Or they might enjoy the new challenge of becoming Allies vs the Mega-Guild.
All these Scenarios are exactly what i am hoping to see.
When i had my Discussions with Magspy7( ? ) - i said it several times. " SEEK. Allies. "
The People on a Server should NOT. JUST. SIT. AROUND. and complain, when a few hundred People have the Ability to band together and kick some mighty, major butt.
People should at least "TRY" to also band together to fight them. - > and if it doesn't work, People can still request a Server-Merge.
But here is the tricky Fun thingy.
When for Example all " HARDCORE-Players " - > meaning Hardcore-PvP'ers involved - dominate a Server entirely : and the remaining Folks are just the far more Casual Playerbase,
then what in the Case, that with a Server-Merge, the " HARDCORE "-Playergroups just find each other and band together once more and again ? . heheheheheh.
There is no Ironclad Rule that the "Hardcore-Groups" would fight each other, right ? We are not in the Manga "VERSUS" who seems to be from the same Creators of the Manga "OnePunchMan".
In the End - there will always be a few things and Circumstances - that not even a Server-Merge will just be able to annul and overcome.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Comments
Also, what would happen when some mega-guild jumps on to raid some Castles.
The financial issues are in and of themselves enough of reason, however I also think the gameplay issues are enough of a reason.
It shouldn't really be up to players to decide if they want easy mode or regular mode - which is basically what a low population server would be.
I just find this line of reasoning so hard to understand.
So does that mean if a player wants to just do commissions and side quests near a safe town and just chat and trade and never do any caravans, it shouldn't be up to them?
What about being in a large guild conglomerate that owns a whole bunch of nodes. Seems pretty easy, not up to them though?
If wants to run low risk content, then they can have at it.
They get the reward that is appropriate for the amount of risk they are putting themselves under, and that risk and reward is largely the same on all servers.
If a large guild or alliance is able to run off the oposition to the point where no one is challenging them, that is them being successful at eliminating a risk. The risk of PvP from other players was always there, that large guild or alliance has just managed to reduce that risk via good gameplay.
On a low population server though, anything that involves open PvP or contest is a lower risk, but with the same reward. That risk that the large guild has eliminated simply doesn't exist at all on a low population server.
These are different things - one is meeting a challange (large guild), one is working within your risk acceptance (running side quests), where as the other is just not having the challenge at all.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59440/how-to-prevent-the-early-demise-of-any-good-mmorpg-from-inevitable-early-population-decline
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/59330/server-merge-solution/p1
I think if you take a look at some of the more fun solutions in these threads, you might agree that the more pertinent discussion isn't "do we need to merge at all," - as evidenced by the way you treat the prospect of a merger in your discussion as something destructive by default - and instead "how do we orchestrate the mergers which do end up being necessary, in order to respect players' time investment and avoid making them feel like we're destroying the world they've built and achievements they have made?"
Also keep in mind: If you take one 1000 player realm, and you merge it with another 1000 player realm, it's not like it's suddenly packed, or like the power structures of the old realm will be wiped out.
(Obviously they shouldn't let realms get so low that one realm might then quickly undergo 4 mergers in quick succession as more players jump ship, which is a possibility if the numbers are picked too small. 1000 is a random ballpark number; the game itself will probably offer far more useful metrics for how low the player count can go before too many nodes will be neglected and the economy and liveliness will suffer too much, before a realm is at risk of going multiple mergers in succession)
Another fun and obvious addition to the initial solution offered in the second thread (and linked in the first) could be to give the "losing" realm tools to reinstitute their known node for structure on the new realm they are colonising, by giving incoming players cheaper and prioritised access to node citizenship in the places they were used to.
It doesn't have to be destructive, it can just be a new challenge to live through.
Anyway, I think the solution is to combine the best of all worlds (pun):
- Reduce the amount of merging needed by managing realm population and limiting the amount of dying communities in the first place.
- But if a realm does crumble faster than any reinforcements can cover, have a backup solution that feels like a fun new challenge while preserving as much of the existing realm lore as feasible, to making the new introductions to it interesting, instead of disconnected to the point of inspiring nihilism.
And what about the realm that starts as high pop (like all the realms), but then large guilds dominate (like you are saying) and take over areas and people start to quit or migrate to other realms, causing the realm to become low pop and dominated by just a few big guilds.
Time to merge them i guess? Regardless of all the work and effort these guilds put into taking over their realm?
(Also more challenging to construct and maintain Metros)
If Nobody can really do anything with their Nodes, because there is either missing Competition "OR" Allies,
then People will most likely switch to/seek another Server - or leave the Game entirely.
If some "MEGA-Guilds" can jump and raid any Castle, Node, whatever - without even the WHOLE. REST. of the remaining Server being able to stop them,
hence basically being reduced to their "living NPC-Toys" forever,
then that can lead to either mostly Everyone of these other People wanting to "join" the MEGA-Guild - ooorrr leaving the Game entirely.
Both of these are things that could ruin and end a whole MMO. These are nice Reasons to do something against that. Of Course You "WILL" without fail have People who always have something to nag and whine about anyway,
and some People will leave the Game anyway sooner or later -> but still there is always Reasons to make Decisions that benefit most of the Community playing the Game.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
So basically Fortnite.... lol
Realistically, with the server population Ashes is looking to have, if an alliance is able to run everyone else off, it probably has the population needed to support a server by itself.
You seem to be over thinking this in order to attempt to rationalize Intrepid keeping low population servers. That is the wrong way to approach this topic, imo.
It's up to each Realm population to react to Mega-Guilds dropping in to take over a Metro.
That might trigger the non-MG folk to request a Realm Merge.
Or they might enjoy the new challenge of becoming Allies vs the Mega-Guild.
All these Scenarios are exactly what i am hoping to see.
When i had my Discussions with Magspy7( ? ) - i said it several times. " SEEK. Allies. "
The People on a Server should NOT. JUST. SIT. AROUND. and complain, when a few hundred People have the Ability to band together and kick some mighty, major butt.
People should at least "TRY" to also band together to fight them. - > and if it doesn't work, People can still request a Server-Merge.
But here is the tricky Fun thingy.
When for Example all " HARDCORE-Players " - > meaning Hardcore-PvP'ers involved - dominate a Server entirely : and the remaining Folks are just the far more Casual Playerbase,
then what in the Case, that with a Server-Merge, the " HARDCORE "-Playergroups just find each other and band together once more and again ?
There is no Ironclad Rule that the "Hardcore-Groups" would fight each other, right ? We are not in the Manga "VERSUS" who seems to be from the same Creators of the Manga "OnePunchMan".
In the End - there will always be a few things and Circumstances - that not even a Server-Merge will just be able to annul and overcome.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)