For sure the Summoner must be the class with most CC of them all. As a jack of all trades he will have less dps than dps's, or less healing from cleric, cant tank like a tank. Wont be a mass buffer like the Bard.
I put summoner because they are able to take up the dps role. They are not just a jack of all trades. They can change to be different roles and no one said that made them worse at those roles. Not yet anyway
It is confirmed from the Wiki that summoner cant be the Main tank or heal of the group. Also his dps will be lower than the other dps classes.
So he should be the class that dedicates the tides of the battle with cc and with assisting with tank/dps/heal/support wherever and whenever its needed,
Also just personal opinion, but I really dont like rogues like in WOW. I think the rogue play style should be completely different from stunlocking 1 target than run away.
This gameplay is better than the whole rogue spec be around the stealth mechanic. (As a rogue player)
They are connected. Take for example WoW. Rogue stun locks 1 target. Than rogue goes invis. stay invisible for 1 min till his cd reset. And since the enemy cds are 2 min. the rogue has free kill with his cds vs target with no cds left after the first engagment. So as conclusion the rogue play style is stuns + staying invis for 40 seconds. Most lame thing ever .
It is a 1v1 class, it made to be like that (AoC will have skills to reveal rogues as well) Rogues arent that effective in Large scale battles as a Fighter or Mage.
For sure the Summoner must be the class with most CC of them all. As a jack of all trades he will have less dps than dps's, or less healing from cleric, cant tank like a tank. Wont be a mass buffer like the Bard.
I put summoner because they are able to take up the dps role. They are not just a jack of all trades. They can change to be different roles and no one said that made them worse at those roles. Not yet anyway
It is confirmed from the Wiki that summoner cant be the Main tank or heal of the group. Also his dps will be lower than the other dps classes.
So he should be the class that dedicates the tides of the battle with cc and with assisting with tank/dps/heal/support wherever and whenever its needed,
Also just personal opinion, but I really dont like rogues like in WOW. I think the rogue play style should be completely different from stunlocking 1 target than run away.
You might wanna read the wiki again. It's pretty clear that when they say you cant tank as well or support as well it's because the summoner is specced for dps and bringing out a pet to try and perform those roles.
As for rogues, that's just kind of the playstyle that many enjoy. The other "option" is a slippery glass cannon that has massive single target damage and is highly mobile with some stealth mechanics. But I bet you wouldn't find that fun either.
I'm expecting a mix, with an emphasis on shadow magic, similar to how the fighter uses blood magic, to enhance their prowess in combat.
You might wanna read the wiki again. It's pretty clear that when they say you cant tank as well or support as well it's because the summoner is specced for dps and bringing out a pet to try and perform those roles.
This makes zero sense. The whole gameplay of the summoner is trough the pets he summon. And NO the summoner is not a dps role.
Per WIKI:
Summoners can shift their roles easily to fill gaps in a group's composition based on the role of the summon they are utilizing coupled with their choice of secondary archetype, which influences the role the summons perform best at.[3][4]
the role the summons perform best at - indicates that even when you build full dps as a summoner, you still will have some tanking skills as well as heals and support stuff.
You might wanna read the wiki again. It's pretty clear that when they say you cant tank as well or support as well it's because the summoner is specced for dps and bringing out a pet to try and perform those roles.
This makes zero sense. The whole gameplay of the summoner is trough the pets he summon. And NO the summoner is not a dps role.
Per WIKI:
Summoners can shift their roles easily to fill gaps in a group's composition based on the role of the summon they are utilizing coupled with their choice of secondary archetype, which influences the role the summons perform best at.[3][4]
the role the summons perform best at - indicates that even when you build full dps as a summoner, you still will have some tanking skills as well as heals and support stuff.
Ok you can believe this. I cant say anything that would convince you otherwise when you are quoting part of the exact Steven quote and getting it wrong.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
Where do all of you get all this false information from?
Ofc you cant be dps as a Bard. Just because you may have few more offensive spells with different augments, doesnt mean you will become dps class
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
Note, Steven has outright stated that "damage when not healing" is a core part of cleric. It's not something you spec into, it's just straight up part of the basic cleric kit.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers. That sounds like the kind of class nobody would play, because it can't do anything adequately for group content.
What actually seems more likely to me is that... well, they'll have a tank, DPS, and healer summon, right? those'll probably operate at about 65% the output of a full class, because you can only have one summoned at a time. Then when you specialize the things you didn't specialize in stay the same, but the one you did goes up to 85% or 90%.
So say you pick up Brood Warden, the Summoner/Tank option. Chances are your DPS summon would be unchanged in power output, not getting weaker, but not being strong enough to compete with dedicated DPS classes, but it would be harder to kill. Same with the healer summon. Your tank summon, on the other hand, would become significantly better at fulfilling the tank role, gaining health, mitigation, threat management, and CC, if the wiki is accurate. It might even be enough to compete with a baseline Tank archetype, but NOT one that has a secondary class of their own. You can fill the role, but there's better options.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
Where do all of you get all this false information from?
Ofc you cant be dps as a Bard. Just because you may have few more offensive spells with different augments, doesnt mean you will become dps class
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
We will see. I can't tell you how many mmo's I have played where I have seen a support role get built into a dps/cc. Vanguard had the first bard class like this that I can recall of the top of my head and that was back in 2007 but carry on with your know-it-all narrative. I do believe Bard/Rogue, aka Trickster, will be able to get built into a satisfactory dps/dps support with S+ tier cc.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
from what I can tell they can do damage, but i dont think they can properly fill in for a dps role in the same way that a ranger or fighter can. Much in the same way that a fighter will probably be able to tank some content, but not be able to properly tank like the tank would.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
Where do all of you get all this false information from?
Ofc you cant be dps as a Bard. Just because you may have few more offensive spells with different augments, doesnt mean you will become dps class
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
you are mixing an age old clash of Hybrids vs Pures and the design for summoners in your mind. A summoner + summoner will be able to spec so that they are a tank, healer, dps, or support. A Summoner + cleric will also be able to spec as a tank, healer, dps, or support but their healing will be more focused.
The key point is how the summoner specializes and this decides which role they fulfill. Steven has never said that they will be shittier than the other classes that fill that role normally. The only thing he said was this: "So if you go with a secondary archetype for your class selection that's more DPS oriented this summons from a role category perspective will be a DPS summons. You'll still have the flexibility, but it won't be as strong as if you had chosen a support or a tank role and the summon benefits you would have as a result of those secondary choices."
This means the secondary archetype is important, but does not mean that without it the summoner has no access to a tank, heal, support, and dps oriented setup. Their main skill tree choices will allow them to specialize into one of the 4 roles completely or build hybrid setups to preform different roles as they want with what I would assume lesser effect.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
from what I can tell they can do damage, but i dont think they can properly fill in for a dps role in the same way that a ranger or fighter can. Much in the same way that a fighter will probably be able to tank some content, but not be able to properly tank like the tank would.
Bard is a support class but it can be ran as a dps so I believe trickster will have the most cc followed by Spellsword, Shadow Caster, and Predator/Scout.
Where do all of you get all this false information from?
Ofc you cant be dps as a Bard. Just because you may have few more offensive spells with different augments, doesnt mean you will become dps class
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
you are mixing an age old clash of Hybrids vs Pures and the design for summoners in your mind. A summoner + summoner will be able to spec so that they are a tank, healer, dps, or support. A Summoner + cleric will also be able to spec as a tank, healer, dps, or support but their healing will be more focused.
The key point is how the summoner specializes and this decides which role they fulfill. Steven has never said that they will be shittier than the other classes that fill that role normally. The only thing he said was this: "So if you go with a secondary archetype for your class selection that's more DPS oriented this summons from a role category perspective will be a DPS summons. You'll still have the flexibility, but it won't be as strong as if you had chosen a support or a tank role and the summon benefits you would have as a result of those secondary choices."
This means the secondary archetype is important, but does not mean that without it the summoner has no access to a tank, heal, support, and dps oriented setup. Their main skill tree choices will allow them to specialize into one of the 4 roles completely or build hybrid setups to preform different roles as they want with what I would assume lesser effect.
TBH what you say and what i said are not that far different.
And your stuff will apply only if there are like 40 spells for the summoner to chose from when building the spells you want. From what we have seen so farm from the calsses - you will have some free choice of what spells to pick but in the same time in the bard showcase for example - you dont have more than 3-4 dps spells.
Well maybe you will be right and the summoner will have much more spells to choose from than other classes, for example every different pet can have different spells to chose from. And in this way you will be able to pick all Heal spells for example which would almost fill your skill bars. But tbh i doubt this will be the case
TBH what you say and what i said are not that far different.
And your stuff will apply only if there are like 40 spells for the summoner to chose from when building the spells you want. From what we have seen so farm from the calsses - you will have some free choice of what spells to pick but in the same time in the bard showcase for example - you dont have more than 3-4 dps spells.
Well maybe you will be right and the summoner will have much more spells to choose from than other classes, for example every different pet can have different spells to chose from. And in this way you will be able to pick all Heal spells for example which would almost fill your skill bars. But tbh i doubt this will be the case
My understanding is that the current showcase of skills are the skills up to level 25. So there will definitely be more if thats the case.
Comments
It is a 1v1 class, it made to be like that (AoC will have skills to reveal rogues as well) Rogues arent that effective in Large scale battles as a Fighter or Mage.
You might wanna read the wiki again. It's pretty clear that when they say you cant tank as well or support as well it's because the summoner is specced for dps and bringing out a pet to try and perform those roles.
As for rogues, that's just kind of the playstyle that many enjoy. The other "option" is a slippery glass cannon that has massive single target damage and is highly mobile with some stealth mechanics. But I bet you wouldn't find that fun either.
I'm expecting a mix, with an emphasis on shadow magic, similar to how the fighter uses blood magic, to enhance their prowess in combat.
This makes zero sense. The whole gameplay of the summoner is trough the pets he summon. And NO the summoner is not a dps role.
Per WIKI:
Summoners can shift their roles easily to fill gaps in a group's composition based on the role of the summon they are utilizing coupled with their choice of secondary archetype, which influences the role the summons perform best at.[3][4]
the role the summons perform best at - indicates that even when you build full dps as a summoner, you still will have some tanking skills as well as heals and support stuff.
Ok you can believe this. I cant say anything that would convince you otherwise when you are quoting part of the exact Steven quote and getting it wrong.
Where do all of you get all this false information from?
Ofc you cant be dps as a Bard. Just because you may have few more offensive spells with different augments, doesnt mean you will become dps class
The primary class type defines your role. If you pick Cleric. This means you are healer. And all 8 sub classes of the cleric are healers. Ofc you will see lots of variations from those 8 variations. Like some may have HOTS, other direct instant heals, other bigger slow cast heals. and ect. Some may even do damage while not healing. or maybe transfer part of the dmg they deal as heal for the party.
THis thing will apply to any class except the summoner. Which is jack of all trades.
With the summoner you can imagine it like this: A summoner+summoner class should have 25% dps 25% heal 25% tank 25% support spells.
If you go for summoner + cleric - you will get 55% heal, 15% dps, 15% tank, 15% support
I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers. That sounds like the kind of class nobody would play, because it can't do anything adequately for group content.
What actually seems more likely to me is that... well, they'll have a tank, DPS, and healer summon, right? those'll probably operate at about 65% the output of a full class, because you can only have one summoned at a time. Then when you specialize the things you didn't specialize in stay the same, but the one you did goes up to 85% or 90%.
So say you pick up Brood Warden, the Summoner/Tank option. Chances are your DPS summon would be unchanged in power output, not getting weaker, but not being strong enough to compete with dedicated DPS classes, but it would be harder to kill. Same with the healer summon. Your tank summon, on the other hand, would become significantly better at fulfilling the tank role, gaining health, mitigation, threat management, and CC, if the wiki is accurate. It might even be enough to compete with a baseline Tank archetype, but NOT one that has a secondary class of their own. You can fill the role, but there's better options.
We will see. I can't tell you how many mmo's I have played where I have seen a support role get built into a dps/cc. Vanguard had the first bard class like this that I can recall of the top of my head and that was back in 2007 but carry on with your know-it-all narrative. I do believe Bard/Rogue, aka Trickster, will be able to get built into a satisfactory dps/dps support with S+ tier cc.
from what I can tell they can do damage, but i dont think they can properly fill in for a dps role in the same way that a ranger or fighter can. Much in the same way that a fighter will probably be able to tank some content, but not be able to properly tank like the tank would.
you are mixing an age old clash of Hybrids vs Pures and the design for summoners in your mind. A summoner + summoner will be able to spec so that they are a tank, healer, dps, or support. A Summoner + cleric will also be able to spec as a tank, healer, dps, or support but their healing will be more focused.
The key point is how the summoner specializes and this decides which role they fulfill. Steven has never said that they will be shittier than the other classes that fill that role normally. The only thing he said was this:
"So if you go with a secondary archetype for your class selection that's more DPS oriented this summons from a role category perspective will be a DPS summons. You'll still have the flexibility, but it won't be as strong as if you had chosen a support or a tank role and the summon benefits you would have as a result of those secondary choices."
This means the secondary archetype is important, but does not mean that without it the summoner has no access to a tank, heal, support, and dps oriented setup. Their main skill tree choices will allow them to specialize into one of the 4 roles completely or build hybrid setups to preform different roles as they want with what I would assume lesser effect.
TBH what you say and what i said are not that far different.
And your stuff will apply only if there are like 40 spells for the summoner to chose from when building the spells you want. From what we have seen so farm from the calsses - you will have some free choice of what spells to pick but in the same time in the bard showcase for example - you dont have more than 3-4 dps spells.
Well maybe you will be right and the summoner will have much more spells to choose from than other classes, for example every different pet can have different spells to chose from. And in this way you will be able to pick all Heal spells for example which would almost fill your skill bars. But tbh i doubt this will be the case
My understanding is that the current showcase of skills are the skills up to level 25. So there will definitely be more if thats the case.