Oh, and no one thought you were spending 150 or 250 or 500 dollars on purely alpha/beta access. You would have to be blind to think that. IF you bought those packs and ONLY wanted alpha and beta access, and you had no intentions of playing the game at release, and had no need for the game time skins or embers, you should have NOT BOUGHT THE PACK. Its that simple.
You are way too optimistic if you believe that there's no one who spent those money thinking they were only paying that for the access and nothing else.
There's already been complaints about "I spent 250 on A2, but these fuckers get it for 120?! That's unfair!" And those are just the vocal minority of all the dumbasses who were only buying access in those bundles.
Only a small % of people can plan ahead and see the benefit of the future. Literally everything in the support bundles was "the future". But out of all of those things the closest thing was always the alpha. It was also the most tangible of the bundle benefits, cause you'll be enjoying that for months and months, while cosmetics and sub are years away, so they don't matter now.
dude im sorry but i remember what those packages looked like. If you looked at those packages and didnt see the skins and embers and game time, along with the keys, all pictured on the screen, and listed below, then i think you would have bigger issues in life than this. Like there is just no way idk. they just should not have bought the packs if they only wanted access to the testing and nothing more. But im not sure who would want to put in the effort of testing a game with no hope of playing it some day and using the skins, game time, and currency.
First off, I’m rarely active here and usually just lurk, so I don’t post often. I’m also not interested in discussing the price, even though I personally find it too high.
What really bothers me is this so-called "confusion" in Steven's post or "clarification" mentioned in the original post. What confusion? What clarification? At no point during the entire stream was it mentioned, either verbally or on any slide, that the beta access was included. There was no talk of a giveaway either. It was always presented as a purchase.
What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is this supposed "open communication." Now, there’s an attempt to backtrack and justify things with wordplay because of the backlash. This doesn’t come across as honest and only breeds more distrust.
dude im sorry but i remember what those packages looked like. If you looked at those packages and didnt see the skins and embers and game time, along with the keys, all pictured on the screen, and listed below, then i think you would have bigger issues in life than this. Like there is just no way idk. they just should not have bought the packs if they only wanted access to the testing and nothing more. But im not sure who would want to put in the effort of testing a game with no hope of playing it some day and using the skins, game time, and currency.
Again, it's not about seeing stuff or whatever. It's about caring only about specific things in the bundle. When testing access overvalues everything else in the bundle - the person perceives the purchase as that of only the access.
In an ideal world those dumbasses would in fact NOT buy those bundles. But they did. A ton of them did. And a high % of those dumbasses will also complain that A2 is not a game they can play, because no matter how many times Steven repeats the fucking "WIP, NOT A GAME" on stream - people don't care.
People are stupid, so they do stupid things.
And as for cosmetics and embers - I, as someone who'll have B1 bundle at some point, could not give fewer shits about those. I hate cosmetics and despise transmog. I will maliciously use transmog of the very first gear in the game to fool anyone who's not looking at my gear icon in pvp. So, to me, those bundles only represent testing access and sub time. And I obviously would've preferred to not have subtime included, cause I would've bought a sub on release either way.
But I'm completely fine with the bundles themselves, because I knew what I was getting with them when I was buying them. I was burning some cash and also getting a test access afterwards. And it's exactly because I know what's in those bundles that I'm saying that all the $120-100 people are getting fucked over even with the latest changes. Cause $70 for A2, B1 and B2 access is still more than the $20 of the $250 bundle. And if these people are getting fucked either way, it would've been way less controversial to just put the price at half the $250 bundle and say "these are a late-time purchase that yall yourselves asked for - so go buy them".
And this approach would be fair to the key beggers, because it was known that $250 was the normal access price. So getting access for half of that is still fair. Especially if Steven would've simply said "this money will help us keep developing the game w/o me going bankrupt or Intrepid going to shit due to third-party investors". Instead he said that they "need testers", even though in january they didn't and we've yet to enter A2, so the situation literally could not have changed from then.
And he then made things worse by justifying the key cost with server expenses, even though the price differences on the keys do not have a linear increase, so there's no direct correlation between server costs and key prices.
What really bothers me is this so-called "confusion" in Steven's post or "clarification" mentioned in the original post. What confusion? What clarification? At no point during the entire stream was it mentioned, either verbally or on any slide, that the beta access was included. There was no talk of a giveaway either. It was always presented as a purchase.
Ohhhh, there WAS mention of betas Literally both Margaret and Steven said, at two separate times of the stream, that these sales are JUST for Alpha access. No betas included.
So yes, those "clarifications" are bullshit. This is simply giving all the haters and scam-callers more ammo to argue their points. And Intrepid could've avoided all of this by either doing what I suggested, or by having some kind of testscreen group of NDA'd people who'd pre-watch all the showcases/announcements and would point out all the potential BS points to Steven.
As for the giveaway part of that discussion, that's purely about previous key giveaways, so it's not related to anything that was said on the stream, and only related to the change that was made in that clarification post.
So i'm curious do they plan to compensate everyone that backed them initially with some other incentive? I think i speak for many people when i say it feels like everyone who bought into their pledge packages are getting screwed over. Let me put it to you this way previously the cheapest access was about 250$
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
Access to the alphas/betas are the most important part of the package and i'll gladly explain why. While hopefully you will be breaking the game and reporting bugs and exploits competitive people are finding min/maxing information to save time, make in game currency, and optimizing your gameplay. This is the most valuable part of the package. So they are undermining everyone who pledged early to back them and support their dream. Whether or not you agree with this is irrelevant it is something they are doing. While some people who purchased packages might be okay with it, i consider this an abusive practice.
But Let's Be Honest Who cares what I think.
6 months of game time ($90 value) This doesn't cost them hardly anything once the game is out so while some can say 90$ value this is not a 90$ value 90$ in the year 2000 is not equivalent to 90$ today
$100 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits) Once again this literally doesn't cost them anything and while 95% of people may or may not care about cosmetic stuff i can say definitively that cosmetics mean nothing to me unless its going to give me an advantage or something that is super exclusive such as 10 only ever being made. Otherwise it becomes too saturated and the cosmetic loses its value.
Along with an accessory skin, mount skin, and pet skin. once again all useless.
Ultimately the packages were selling a dream, we can only hope that the majority of backers are not as disappointed as i am of these recent developments, and backtracking to appease the masses. I understand it costs them money to fund the extra people who bought in to the alpha access later which is why i didn't initially have much a problem with them offering keys to what i thought were going to be sharks and whales. I also understand some people didn't know about ashes of creation until they know about it, is that anyone's fault? Yes, when you are passionate about finding a game that suits your taste you will be willing to search for it. Plenty of information has been surfacing about ashes of creation for several years.
One last note, i want to sincerely ask if you are the average working class adult, does it not sting to purchase something for a specific price only to have someone you know purchase the very same thing the next day for half the price.
You can say that all you want but first off thats his opinion. And second you cant just disregard all the things you got with a pack because you specifically only wanted the alpha. You also cant disregard it because it costs them nothing to sell you. Skins cost nothing and loot boxes cost nothing for a dev team to puke out onto their cash shop and people buy plenty of them. You're funding a game you are playing, or want to play. Or you arent.
Just because it didnt mean anything to you doesnt change the facts. for the 100th time i wish they just sold alpha and beta access for the people who only wanted alpha and beta access. But they didnt.
They never did. I also hope they let those people upgrade their packs to just alpha access for a cheaper price. But thats up to intrepid. I think its probably a small amount of people in this situation that dont care about the extra stuff in the packs, but they should still do it. And again, if you only wanted access and didnt care about the other stuff then you should have not bought it.
also im not sure why you keep calling these people dumbasses and idiots for buying access to the beta pack. The tactics of FOMO are predatory. As i said in my OP. Im not going to shit on people who wanted to test the game but didnt have the 250 bucks to shell out at the time and bought beta access because they were told the "pre order" packs were going to be discontinued, even though the game is years from release, for whatever reason. But i also dont think those same people should be complaining when im pretty sure they can upgrade the packs. If they only wanted alpha and beta access they should have not bought it or waited.
Idk why im still arguing with you lmao. I hope they let these people upgrade to alpha access for a cheaper price, my main thing was you saying 120 bucks for only alpha access was the correct choice is an awful take, and almost no one agrees with it. Thats all.
You're criticizing the company for not screwing over newer players hard enough, but at the same time criticizing them for not helping the people who bought beta packs. So from what i gather, you just hate newer players coming to this community and think they should be treated less than. Which is strange, because who fkn cares.
One last note, i want to sincerely ask if you are the average working class adult, does it not sting to purchase something for a specific price only to have someone you know purchase the very same thing the next day for half the price.
As an adult you have to take responsibility. Literally no one should have bought these packs with any expectations. You should have looked at it as a donation, nothing more. Thats my advice, but im aware people wont do that. That is the problem with development like this. And that doesnt mean the pricing cant be criticized. Or the way that they handle things.
As i said above, you're twisting this to your narrative. You're pretending the stuff the pre order packs came with dont exist. But it does exist. 90 dollars in game time, 100 dollars in embers, and lets say 10-20 in skins, you're paying 40-50 bucks for the alpha/beta if you bought the 250 dollar pack. I get why some people might be agitated by this, but like you shoudlnt have bought it if you only wanted access. And if you did, you should just except it.
The people in a predicament are the few people who bought a beta pack, literally wanted nothing more than access to the alpha/beta, and now are left with the choice of upgrading to a bigger pack, or buying this new 120 dollar pack. And i would say either wash your hands of the alpha and play the beta, or if you really want it buy whatever option is cheaper. but this is just talking in circles at this point, because no rational person should have bought these packs if they didnt value the game time and embers, at least.
Why would i ever spend 100-500 dollars on a game to test it in alpha if i didnt think i would play it on launch. And if i was going to play it on launch then i would be fine with getting cash shop currency and game time. Its money i would spend anyway, so whats the difference.
You can say that all you want but first off thats his opinion. And second you cant just disregard all the things you got with a pack because you specifically only wanted the alpha. You also cant disregard it because it costs them nothing to sell you. Skins cost nothing and loot boxes cost nothing for a dev team to puke out onto their cash shop and people buy plenty of them. You're funding a game you are playing, or want to play. Or you arent.
Just because it didnt mean anything to you doesnt change the facts. for the 100th time i wish they just sold alpha and beta access for the people who only wanted alpha and beta access. But they didnt.
They never did. I also hope they let those people upgrade their packs to just alpha access for a cheaper price. But thats up to intrepid. I think its probably a small amount of people in this situation that dont care about the extra stuff in the packs, but they should still do it. And again, if you only wanted access and didnt care about the other stuff then you should have not bought it.
also im not sure why you keep calling these people dumbasses and idiots for buying access to the beta pack. The tactics of FOMO are predatory. As i said in my OP. Im not going to shit on people who wanted to test the game but didnt have the 250 bucks to shell out at the time and bought beta access because they were told the "pre order" packs were going to be discontinued, even though the game is years from release, for whatever reason. But i also dont think those same people should be complaining when im pretty sure they can upgrade the packs. If they only wanted alpha and beta access they should have not bought it or waited.
Idk why im still arguing with you lmao. I hope they let these people upgrade to alpha access for a cheaper price, my main thing was you saying 120 bucks for only alpha access was the correct choice is an awful take, and almost no one agrees with it. Thats all.
You're criticizing the company for not screwing over newer players hard enough, but at the same time criticizing them for not helping the people who bought beta packs. So from what i gather, you just hate newer players coming to this community and think they should be treated less than. Which is strange, because who fkn cares.
I can disregard all the things i got with the pack when the only way to get into the alpha/beta was to purchase a pack however if you pay attention to what i actually wrote, what i basically said was they were selling a dream and not alpha/beta/ access in addition to the cosmetics or membership its all completely irrelevant if you invest your money into anything you are not entitled to anything not promised. There is a difference between supporting a company for a dream and buying the pledges for access. I don't regret spending 250$ on the pledge package to support their dream. I am bothered by the fact that they think its okay to devalue everyone that had supported them through their packages. When you offer something that is exclusively part of a pledge package you are devaluing it.
also im not sure why you keep calling these people dumbasses and idiots for buying access to the beta pack. The tactics of FOMO are predatory.
I'm calling the ones who "only bought the access" dumbasses. The one's who're yelling "I paid 250, but these fuckers are only paying 120 for the same thing".
You're criticizing the company for not screwing over newer players hard enough, but at the same time criticizing them for not helping the people who bought beta packs. So from what i gather, you just hate newer players coming to this community and think they should be treated less than. Which is strange, because who fkn cares.
It was Intrepid that pretend to care about the previous bundle buyers. Steven gave it as the second reason for key prices during the AMA stream.
So what I'm saying is exactly what Steven did. Except he then gave into the whiners and complainers and fucked over the very bundle buyers he supposedly cared about before. The 120 pricetag was most likely chosen for the same logic I gave - "it's half the price of the bundle, so it seems fair".
And there's literally no way for Intrepid to NOT have fucked someone over. Bundle keys costed $20, so pricing them higher would obviously be "unfair" towards the newcomers. But pricing them at 20 would be the hugest spit in the face of everyone who simply wanted to test A2 and could not care less about other stuff.
So imo 120 is the best price for these keys. They limit the amount of testers in A2, they give Intrepid more money for development and they'll still be sold in big numbers, because the damn 250 bundles sold more than 100k copies.
There is no fairness in this situation. There's only inability to stick to his guns on Steven's part. And a veeeery bad communication overall, which creates horrible optics for Intrepid, as is super evident by all the drama around this mess.
So i'm curious do they plan to compensate everyone that backed them initially with some other incentive? I think i speak for many people when i say it feels like everyone who bought into their pledge packages are getting screwed over. Let me put it to you this way previously the cheapest access was about 250$
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
Access to the alphas/betas are the most important part of the package and i'll gladly explain why. While hopefully you will be breaking the game and reporting bugs and exploits competitive people are finding min/maxing information to save time, make in game currency, and optimizing your gameplay. This is the most valuable part of the package. So they are undermining everyone who pledged early to back them and support their dream. Whether or not you agree with this is irrelevant it is something they are doing. While some people who purchased packages might be okay with it, i consider this an abusive practice.
But Let's Be Honest Who cares what I think.
6 months of game time ($90 value) This doesn't cost them hardly anything once the game is out so while some can say 90$ value this is not a 90$ value 90$ in the year 2000 is not equivalent to 90$ today
$100 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits) Once again this literally doesn't cost them anything and while 95% of people may or may not care about cosmetic stuff i can say definitively that cosmetics mean nothing to me unless its going to give me an advantage or something that is super exclusive such as 10 only ever being made. Otherwise it becomes too saturated and the cosmetic loses its value.
Along with an accessory skin, mount skin, and pet skin. once again all useless.
Ultimately the packages were selling a dream, we can only hope that the majority of backers are not as disappointed as i am of these recent developments, and backtracking to appease the masses. I understand it costs them money to fund the extra people who bought in to the alpha access later which is why i didn't initially have much a problem with them offering keys to what i thought were going to be sharks and whales. I also understand some people didn't know about ashes of creation until they know about it, is that anyone's fault? Yes, when you are passionate about finding a game that suits your taste you will be willing to search for it. Plenty of information has been surfacing about ashes of creation for several years.
One last note, i want to sincerely ask if you are the average working class adult, does it not sting to purchase something for a specific price only to have someone you know purchase the very same thing the next day for half the price.
I don't want compensation at all. I understood exactly what I purchased. The value was good then, especially considering what they are trying to do. If I just wanted to play the game I would just pay the 15 per month.
We liked what they were trying to do and we voted with our wallets. Also with our time and effort on these forums and soon in game.
You have to choose where you take risks with your money. So far the game is shaping up well, so I'm glad to have bet on the right horse.
I don't want compensation at all. I understood exactly what I purchased. The value was good then, especially considering what they are trying to do. If I just wanted to play the game I would just pay the 15 per month.
We liked what they were trying to do and we voted with our wallets. Also with our time and effort on these forums and soon in game.
You have to choose where you take risks with your money. So far the game is shaping up well, so I'm glad to have bet on the right horse.
Fair statement but i disagree, the value of the package is subjective.
Yes we did vote with our wallets i had no problem pledging the 250$
I agree the game is shaping up well but it doesn't excuse lowering the price of entry for the alpha keys when you shouldn't of offered them for the additional people begging for them.
I don't want compensation at all. I understood exactly what I purchased. The value was good then, especially considering what they are trying to do. If I just wanted to play the game I would just pay the 15 per month.
We liked what they were trying to do and we voted with our wallets. Also with our time and effort on these forums and soon in game.
You have to choose where you take risks with your money. So far the game is shaping up well, so I'm glad to have bet on the right horse.
Fair statement but i disagree, the value of the package is subjective.
Yes we did vote with our wallets i had no problem pledging the 250$
I agree the game is shaping up well but it doesn't excuse lowering the price of entry for the alpha keys when you shouldn't of offered them for the additional people begging for them.
I can see the point you are making. One thing I would point out is that the majority of the push back is that the price is too high. It kind of shows three things.
1. If they did not offer keys at all, it infuriates their newer audience members who want to participate, but feel punished for not hearing about this sooner.
2. If they offer keys and the price is too high, the entire internet accuses them of being con artists, and the newer members are still angry.
3. If they offer keys and the price is too low, a large section of their long time supporters feel cheated and betrayed.
Now add to this the fact that price, in this case value, is subjective. Because the massive audience this game has can't possibly agree on the perfect price, you can safely say that a good price for the keys literally does not exist.
If they can't do anything at all without angering large portions of their audience, what else could they possibly do other than make their best guess based their testing needs and move on with life?
One thing I would point out is that the majority of the push back is that the price is too high. It kind of shows three things.
1. If they did not offer keys at all, it infuriates their newer audience members who want to participate, but feel punished for not hearing about this sooner.
2. If they offer keys and the price is too high, the entire internet accuses them of being con artists, and the newer members are still angry.
3. If they offer keys and the price is too low, a large section of their long time supporters feel cheated and betrayed.
Now add to this the fact that price, in this case value, is subjective. Because the massive audience this game has can't possibly agree on the perfect price, you can safely say that a good price for the keys literally does not exist.
If they can't do anything at all without angering large portions of their audience, what else could they possibly do other than make their best guess based their testing needs and move on with life?
Good points. It's Monday morning qb'ing, but I wonder if reopening the original packs with the original pricing (using one random month's cosmetic pack), but for a very limited window may have been the optimal route.
One thing I would point out is that the majority of the push back is that the price is too high. It kind of shows three things.
1. If they did not offer keys at all, it infuriates their newer audience members who want to participate, but feel punished for not hearing about this sooner.
2. If they offer keys and the price is too high, the entire internet accuses them of being con artists, and the newer members are still angry.
3. If they offer keys and the price is too low, a large section of their long time supporters feel cheated and betrayed.
Now add to this the fact that price, in this case value, is subjective. Because the massive audience this game has can't possibly agree on the perfect price, you can safely say that a good price for the keys literally does not exist.
If they can't do anything at all without angering large portions of their audience, what else could they possibly do other than make their best guess based their testing needs and move on with life?
Good points. It's Monday morning qb'ing, but I wonder if reopening the original packs with the original pricing (using one random month's cosmetic pack), but for a very limited window may have been the optimal route.
Its possible, hard to say really. They did add beta access to the keys so that's good. I'd say they should do something for the existing beta players and call it good. Hell if you want to give me some free crap like @RogueRanger says I won't argue lol, and I'll thank him for it.
Digital products always get cheaper as time moves on. I will even go as far as at some point playing this game will cost nothing (f2p) but that some years out.
I don't want compensation at all. I understood exactly what I purchased. The value was good then, especially considering what they are trying to do. If I just wanted to play the game I would just pay the 15 per month.
We liked what they were trying to do and we voted with our wallets. Also with our time and effort on these forums and soon in game.
You have to choose where you take risks with your money. So far the game is shaping up well, so I'm glad to have bet on the right horse.
Fair statement but i disagree, the value of the package is subjective.
Yes we did vote with our wallets i had no problem pledging the 250$
I agree the game is shaping up well but it doesn't excuse lowering the price of entry for the alpha keys when you shouldn't of offered them for the additional people begging for them.
they arent lowering the prices. If anything people are now paying more for just alpha/beta access. Remember, the 250 dollar pre order packs came like 200 dollars worth of stuff, so that means the access was like 50 bucks. As for the more expensive ones, im not sure. But if you didnt want that stuff you should have waited. As ive said. It is what it is.
And why should newer players have to beg for the esteemed privilege of paying hundreds of dollars to test a game? The packs should have never come down. That was a massive mistake. If they had enough testers, and the server couldnt handle more, then fine. But they never should have involved fomo by saying the packs were going away for ever. That was the biggest mistake of this whole thing, and could have been easily avoided if they just took them down, and put them back up when they felt they could handle it.
the two of you complaining about this are ridiculous. You didn't get screwed. You got exactly what you paid for knowingly. Now you want to complain because other people have access to the alpha. Either upgrade the package, pay the 100 bucks for the new one, wait for the beta, or appeal to intrepid to offer some kind of discount for alpha access. But dont say you're getting screwed.
Either upgrade the package, pay the 100 bucks for the new one, wait for the beta, or appeal to intrepid to offer some kind of discount for alpha access. But dont say you're getting screwed.
I think I said it here already, but I have A2 key and have bought B2 access after that purely to support the game. I will upgrade it to B1 at some point, which will bring me over the $120 pricetage of these keys.
Intrepid allegedly want to implement some new upgrade for the beta bundles, but I highly doubt that'll include update from B2 to B1.
I'm complaining now because Intrepid has fucked up their communication and presentation again. And I need to call out their shitty presentation in hope of them fixing it in the future (even though they haven't fixed it after my previous complaints on this topic).
Please take the time to properly comprehend instead of allowing your emotions to speak for you.
You made a claim that they aren't lowering the prices which is wrong.
First let me correct you on a few things
The 250$ packages came with 0$ worth of stuff as I've stated previously, you don't get to divide and say this part of the package is worth this much. Your inability to actually understand that is why you don't comprehend how they are screwing over the initial package owners. You stated i got exactly what i paid for knowingly? I haven't received anything right now other than a promise, which I'm okay with. You stated i want to complain because other people have access to the alpha. Other people having access to the alpha devalues the promise which was sold to me and the other pledge backers. How is it not getting screwed over when intrepid purposely devalues their own promises or products?
i am going to offer you some basic reasoning below that i got from chat gpt hopefully this will help you understand further, i am trying to get my point across so that you understand. Whether or not you agree is completely different it doesn't change the undisputable fact of what is actually going on.
And just to make this perfectly clear you are seeing they sold me a product(service) which they did not, they sold me a promise(pledge package). I understand what i bought and assuming you bought a pledge package you don't understand what you paid for.
Product: In a business or economic context, a product is an item or service that is offered for sale to consumers. Products can be tangible goods (like electronics, clothing, or food) or intangible services (like software, consulting, or education).
Promise or Commitment: A pledge is a formal or solemn promise to do or refrain from doing something. For example, a person might pledge to donate money to a charity or to support a cause.
Perception of Unfairness: When customers discover that others are receiving a better deal, they may feel cheated or treated unfairly. This can lead to negative perceptions of your business, damaging trust and customer loyalty.
Damage to Reputation: Word of mouth and online reviews can spread quickly, especially if customers feel they've been treated unfairly. This can harm your reputation and discourage potential customers from doing business with you.
Loss of Value Perception: If customers suspect prices vary widely, they may question the true value of your product or service, leading them to demand lower prices or seek alternatives.
Please take the time to properly comprehend instead of allowing your emotions to speak for you.
You made a claim that they aren't lowering the prices which is wrong.
First let me correct you on a few things
The 250$ packages came with 0$ worth of stuff as I've stated previously, you don't get to divide and say this part of the package is worth this much. Your inability to actually understand that is why you don't comprehend how they are screwing over the initial package owners. You stated i got exactly what i paid for knowingly? I haven't received anything right now other than a promise, which I'm okay with. You stated i want to complain because other people have access to the alpha. Other people having access to the alpha devalues the promise which was sold to me and the other pledge backers. How is it not getting screwed over when intrepid purposely devalues their own promises or products?
i am going to offer you some basic reasoning below that i got from chat gpt hopefully this will help you understand further, i am trying to get my point across so that you understand. Whether or not you agree is completely different it doesn't change the undisputable fact of what is actually going on.
And just to make this perfectly clear you are seeing they sold me a product(service) which they did not, they sold me a promise(pledge package). I understand what i bought and assuming you bought a pledge package you don't understand what you paid for.
Product: In a business or economic context, a product is an item or service that is offered for sale to consumers. Products can be tangible goods (like electronics, clothing, or food) or intangible services (like software, consulting, or education).
Promise or Commitment: A pledge is a formal or solemn promise to do or refrain from doing something. For example, a person might pledge to donate money to a charity or to support a cause.
Perception of Unfairness: When customers discover that others are receiving a better deal, they may feel cheated or treated unfairly. This can lead to negative perceptions of your business, damaging trust and customer loyalty.
Damage to Reputation: Word of mouth and online reviews can spread quickly, especially if customers feel they've been treated unfairly. This can harm your reputation and discourage potential customers from doing business with you.
Loss of Value Perception: If customers suspect prices vary widely, they may question the true value of your product or service, leading them to demand lower prices or seek alternatives.
Im not going to waste my time going in circles with you trying to explain very simple facts and concepts. Your take on all of this is completely unhinged. Truly. You can discount everything else listed in those packs all you want but at the end of the day you should not have bought those packs only for alpha or beta access. If you did, that was your mistake. But you got what you wanted at this point, right? Like the post above says? Most people should at least be a bit happier now.
Comments
dude im sorry but i remember what those packages looked like. If you looked at those packages and didnt see the skins and embers and game time, along with the keys, all pictured on the screen, and listed below, then i think you would have bigger issues in life than this. Like there is just no way idk. they just should not have bought the packs if they only wanted access to the testing and nothing more. But im not sure who would want to put in the effort of testing a game with no hope of playing it some day and using the skins, game time, and currency.
First off, I’m rarely active here and usually just lurk, so I don’t post often. I’m also not interested in discussing the price, even though I personally find it too high.
What really bothers me is this so-called "confusion" in Steven's post or "clarification" mentioned in the original post. What confusion? What clarification? At no point during the entire stream was it mentioned, either verbally or on any slide, that the beta access was included. There was no talk of a giveaway either. It was always presented as a purchase.
What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is this supposed "open communication." Now, there’s an attempt to backtrack and justify things with wordplay because of the backlash. This doesn’t come across as honest and only breeds more distrust.
In an ideal world those dumbasses would in fact NOT buy those bundles. But they did. A ton of them did. And a high % of those dumbasses will also complain that A2 is not a game they can play, because no matter how many times Steven repeats the fucking "WIP, NOT A GAME" on stream - people don't care.
People are stupid, so they do stupid things.
And as for cosmetics and embers - I, as someone who'll have B1 bundle at some point, could not give fewer shits about those. I hate cosmetics and despise transmog. I will maliciously use transmog of the very first gear in the game to fool anyone who's not looking at my gear icon in pvp. So, to me, those bundles only represent testing access and sub time. And I obviously would've preferred to not have subtime included, cause I would've bought a sub on release either way.
But I'm completely fine with the bundles themselves, because I knew what I was getting with them when I was buying them. I was burning some cash and also getting a test access afterwards. And it's exactly because I know what's in those bundles that I'm saying that all the $120-100 people are getting fucked over even with the latest changes. Cause $70 for A2, B1 and B2 access is still more than the $20 of the $250 bundle. And if these people are getting fucked either way, it would've been way less controversial to just put the price at half the $250 bundle and say "these are a late-time purchase that yall yourselves asked for - so go buy them".
And this approach would be fair to the key beggers, because it was known that $250 was the normal access price. So getting access for half of that is still fair. Especially if Steven would've simply said "this money will help us keep developing the game w/o me going bankrupt or Intrepid going to shit due to third-party investors". Instead he said that they "need testers", even though in january they didn't and we've yet to enter A2, so the situation literally could not have changed from then.
And he then made things worse by justifying the key cost with server expenses, even though the price differences on the keys do not have a linear increase, so there's no direct correlation between server costs and key prices.
So yes, those "clarifications" are bullshit. This is simply giving all the haters and scam-callers more ammo to argue their points. And Intrepid could've avoided all of this by either doing what I suggested, or by having some kind of testscreen group of NDA'd people who'd pre-watch all the showcases/announcements and would point out all the potential BS points to Steven.
As for the giveaway part of that discussion, that's purely about previous key giveaways, so it's not related to anything that was said on the stream, and only related to the change that was made in that clarification post.
Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
Access to the alphas/betas are the most important part of the package and i'll gladly explain why. While hopefully you will be breaking the game and reporting bugs and exploits competitive people are finding min/maxing information to save time, make in game currency, and optimizing your gameplay. This is the most valuable part of the package. So they are undermining everyone who pledged early to back them and support their dream. Whether or not you agree with this is irrelevant it is something they are doing. While some people who purchased packages might be okay with it, i consider this an abusive practice.
But Let's Be Honest Who cares what I think.
6 months of game time ($90 value) This doesn't cost them hardly anything once the game is out so while some can say 90$ value this is not a 90$ value 90$ in the year 2000 is not equivalent to 90$ today
$100 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits) Once again this literally doesn't cost them anything and while 95% of people may or may not care about cosmetic stuff i can say definitively that cosmetics mean nothing to me unless its going to give me an advantage or something that is super exclusive such as 10 only ever being made. Otherwise it becomes too saturated and the cosmetic loses its value.
Along with an accessory skin, mount skin, and pet skin. once again all useless.
Ultimately the packages were selling a dream, we can only hope that the majority of backers are not as disappointed as i am of these recent developments, and backtracking to appease the masses. I understand it costs them money to fund the extra people who bought in to the alpha access later which is why i didn't initially have much a problem with them offering keys to what i thought were going to be sharks and whales. I also understand some people didn't know about ashes of creation until they know about it, is that anyone's fault? Yes, when you are passionate about finding a game that suits your taste you will be willing to search for it. Plenty of information has been surfacing about ashes of creation for several years.
One last note, i want to sincerely ask if you are the average working class adult, does it not sting to purchase something for a specific price only to have someone you know purchase the very same thing the next day for half the price.
You can say that all you want but first off thats his opinion. And second you cant just disregard all the things you got with a pack because you specifically only wanted the alpha. You also cant disregard it because it costs them nothing to sell you. Skins cost nothing and loot boxes cost nothing for a dev team to puke out onto their cash shop and people buy plenty of them. You're funding a game you are playing, or want to play. Or you arent.
Just because it didnt mean anything to you doesnt change the facts. for the 100th time i wish they just sold alpha and beta access for the people who only wanted alpha and beta access. But they didnt.
They never did. I also hope they let those people upgrade their packs to just alpha access for a cheaper price. But thats up to intrepid. I think its probably a small amount of people in this situation that dont care about the extra stuff in the packs, but they should still do it. And again, if you only wanted access and didnt care about the other stuff then you should have not bought it.
also im not sure why you keep calling these people dumbasses and idiots for buying access to the beta pack. The tactics of FOMO are predatory. As i said in my OP. Im not going to shit on people who wanted to test the game but didnt have the 250 bucks to shell out at the time and bought beta access because they were told the "pre order" packs were going to be discontinued, even though the game is years from release, for whatever reason. But i also dont think those same people should be complaining when im pretty sure they can upgrade the packs. If they only wanted alpha and beta access they should have not bought it or waited.
Idk why im still arguing with you lmao. I hope they let these people upgrade to alpha access for a cheaper price, my main thing was you saying 120 bucks for only alpha access was the correct choice is an awful take, and almost no one agrees with it. Thats all.
You're criticizing the company for not screwing over newer players hard enough, but at the same time criticizing them for not helping the people who bought beta packs. So from what i gather, you just hate newer players coming to this community and think they should be treated less than. Which is strange, because who fkn cares.
As an adult you have to take responsibility. Literally no one should have bought these packs with any expectations. You should have looked at it as a donation, nothing more. Thats my advice, but im aware people wont do that. That is the problem with development like this. And that doesnt mean the pricing cant be criticized. Or the way that they handle things.
As i said above, you're twisting this to your narrative. You're pretending the stuff the pre order packs came with dont exist. But it does exist. 90 dollars in game time, 100 dollars in embers, and lets say 10-20 in skins, you're paying 40-50 bucks for the alpha/beta if you bought the 250 dollar pack. I get why some people might be agitated by this, but like you shoudlnt have bought it if you only wanted access. And if you did, you should just except it.
The people in a predicament are the few people who bought a beta pack, literally wanted nothing more than access to the alpha/beta, and now are left with the choice of upgrading to a bigger pack, or buying this new 120 dollar pack. And i would say either wash your hands of the alpha and play the beta, or if you really want it buy whatever option is cheaper. but this is just talking in circles at this point, because no rational person should have bought these packs if they didnt value the game time and embers, at least.
Why would i ever spend 100-500 dollars on a game to test it in alpha if i didnt think i would play it on launch. And if i was going to play it on launch then i would be fine with getting cash shop currency and game time. Its money i would spend anyway, so whats the difference.
I can disregard all the things i got with the pack when the only way to get into the alpha/beta was to purchase a pack however if you pay attention to what i actually wrote, what i basically said was they were selling a dream and not alpha/beta/ access in addition to the cosmetics or membership its all completely irrelevant if you invest your money into anything you are not entitled to anything not promised. There is a difference between supporting a company for a dream and buying the pledges for access. I don't regret spending 250$ on the pledge package to support their dream. I am bothered by the fact that they think its okay to devalue everyone that had supported them through their packages. When you offer something that is exclusively part of a pledge package you are devaluing it.
It was Intrepid that pretend to care about the previous bundle buyers. Steven gave it as the second reason for key prices during the AMA stream.
So what I'm saying is exactly what Steven did. Except he then gave into the whiners and complainers and fucked over the very bundle buyers he supposedly cared about before. The 120 pricetag was most likely chosen for the same logic I gave - "it's half the price of the bundle, so it seems fair".
And there's literally no way for Intrepid to NOT have fucked someone over. Bundle keys costed $20, so pricing them higher would obviously be "unfair" towards the newcomers. But pricing them at 20 would be the hugest spit in the face of everyone who simply wanted to test A2 and could not care less about other stuff.
So imo 120 is the best price for these keys. They limit the amount of testers in A2, they give Intrepid more money for development and they'll still be sold in big numbers, because the damn 250 bundles sold more than 100k copies.
There is no fairness in this situation. There's only inability to stick to his guns on Steven's part. And a veeeery bad communication overall, which creates horrible optics for Intrepid, as is super evident by all the drama around this mess.
I don't want compensation at all. I understood exactly what I purchased. The value was good then, especially considering what they are trying to do. If I just wanted to play the game I would just pay the 15 per month.
We liked what they were trying to do and we voted with our wallets. Also with our time and effort on these forums and soon in game.
You have to choose where you take risks with your money. So far the game is shaping up well, so I'm glad to have bet on the right horse.
Fair statement but i disagree, the value of the package is subjective.
Yes we did vote with our wallets i had no problem pledging the 250$
I agree the game is shaping up well but it doesn't excuse lowering the price of entry for the alpha keys when you shouldn't of offered them for the additional people begging for them.
I can see the point you are making. One thing I would point out is that the majority of the push back is that the price is too high. It kind of shows three things.
1. If they did not offer keys at all, it infuriates their newer audience members who want to participate, but feel punished for not hearing about this sooner.
2. If they offer keys and the price is too high, the entire internet accuses them of being con artists, and the newer members are still angry.
3. If they offer keys and the price is too low, a large section of their long time supporters feel cheated and betrayed.
Now add to this the fact that price, in this case value, is subjective. Because the massive audience this game has can't possibly agree on the perfect price, you can safely say that a good price for the keys literally does not exist.
If they can't do anything at all without angering large portions of their audience, what else could they possibly do other than make their best guess based their testing needs and move on with life?
Good points. It's Monday morning qb'ing, but I wonder if reopening the original packs with the original pricing (using one random month's cosmetic pack), but for a very limited window may have been the optimal route.
Its possible, hard to say really. They did add beta access to the keys so that's good. I'd say they should do something for the existing beta players and call it good. Hell if you want to give me some free crap like @RogueRanger says I won't argue lol, and I'll thank him for it.
they arent lowering the prices. If anything people are now paying more for just alpha/beta access. Remember, the 250 dollar pre order packs came like 200 dollars worth of stuff, so that means the access was like 50 bucks. As for the more expensive ones, im not sure. But if you didnt want that stuff you should have waited. As ive said. It is what it is.
And why should newer players have to beg for the esteemed privilege of paying hundreds of dollars to test a game? The packs should have never come down. That was a massive mistake. If they had enough testers, and the server couldnt handle more, then fine. But they never should have involved fomo by saying the packs were going away for ever. That was the biggest mistake of this whole thing, and could have been easily avoided if they just took them down, and put them back up when they felt they could handle it.
the two of you complaining about this are ridiculous. You didn't get screwed. You got exactly what you paid for knowingly. Now you want to complain because other people have access to the alpha. Either upgrade the package, pay the 100 bucks for the new one, wait for the beta, or appeal to intrepid to offer some kind of discount for alpha access. But dont say you're getting screwed.
I think I said it here already, but I have A2 key and have bought B2 access after that purely to support the game. I will upgrade it to B1 at some point, which will bring me over the $120 pricetage of these keys.
Intrepid allegedly want to implement some new upgrade for the beta bundles, but I highly doubt that'll include update from B2 to B1.
I'm complaining now because Intrepid has fucked up their communication and presentation again. And I need to call out their shitty presentation in hope of them fixing it in the future (even though they haven't fixed it after my previous complaints on this topic).
Please take the time to properly comprehend instead of allowing your emotions to speak for you.
You made a claim that they aren't lowering the prices which is wrong.
First let me correct you on a few things
The 250$ packages came with 0$ worth of stuff as I've stated previously, you don't get to divide and say this part of the package is worth this much. Your inability to actually understand that is why you don't comprehend how they are screwing over the initial package owners. You stated i got exactly what i paid for knowingly? I haven't received anything right now other than a promise, which I'm okay with. You stated i want to complain because other people have access to the alpha. Other people having access to the alpha devalues the promise which was sold to me and the other pledge backers. How is it not getting screwed over when intrepid purposely devalues their own promises or products?
i am going to offer you some basic reasoning below that i got from chat gpt hopefully this will help you understand further, i am trying to get my point across so that you understand. Whether or not you agree is completely different it doesn't change the undisputable fact of what is actually going on.
And just to make this perfectly clear you are seeing they sold me a product(service) which they did not, they sold me a promise(pledge package). I understand what i bought and assuming you bought a pledge package you don't understand what you paid for.
Product: In a business or economic context, a product is an item or service that is offered for sale to consumers. Products can be tangible goods (like electronics, clothing, or food) or intangible services (like software, consulting, or education).
Promise or Commitment: A pledge is a formal or solemn promise to do or refrain from doing something. For example, a person might pledge to donate money to a charity or to support a cause.
Perception of Unfairness: When customers discover that others are receiving a better deal, they may feel cheated or treated unfairly. This can lead to negative perceptions of your business, damaging trust and customer loyalty.
Damage to Reputation: Word of mouth and online reviews can spread quickly, especially if customers feel they've been treated unfairly. This can harm your reputation and discourage potential customers from doing business with you.
Loss of Value Perception: If customers suspect prices vary widely, they may question the true value of your product or service, leading them to demand lower prices or seek alternatives.
Im not going to waste my time going in circles with you trying to explain very simple facts and concepts. Your take on all of this is completely unhinged. Truly. You can discount everything else listed in those packs all you want but at the end of the day you should not have bought those packs only for alpha or beta access. If you did, that was your mistake. But you got what you wanted at this point, right? Like the post above says? Most people should at least be a bit happier now.