Alpha 2 keys and access - thank you intrepid for listening to feedback

Intrepid says they read the forums so im going to leave this here. It wont make any difference, but its my opinion. I have followed this game since the kickstarter, i have never believed the hate it got, or that it wasnt going to eventually release. And im not even saying i wont try it when it comes out, or that i dislike intrepid, or steven, but I have a lost a lot of faith recently.

The pre order packs were ridiculously over priced. You can say they were not, and i would say you are insane. But most of us didnt complain, because supporting a game that you believe in is good, and if you were actually going to play the game on release then they had some value.

Then you guys removed the packs, and thats when i started to realize what you were going to do. And sure enough, today we got the confirmation. Predatory FOMO, and ridiculous pricing. You can say this is an alpha test all you want. You can say people shouldn't be buying alpha or beta access expecting a game, and i agree. But on the other hand, if thats what you truly wanted, you should have not sold alpha or beta access and just chose select active members of the community. No, this is a game, as well as testing of a game, and people want to test the alpha, help with the process, and have the experience themselves. And slapping them in the face to do it is the wrong way to go about it.

You also say you understand that new people are discovering AOC every day, so they why snub those people as well? Why remove pre order packages when the game is literally multiple years from release? Even if you cant sell your 500 dollar packages anymore, because alpha 1 is ending, you still could have sold the higher priced packs.

And if you removed the packages because the servers couldnt handle it, but brought keys back because now they can, why not just bring back the packs? Or new packs with an increased price?

IMO removing the packs was a mistake and shady. But more than that, turning around and selling these alpha 2 keys for ONLY alpha 2 access is just awful. Nothing else with it. And then what, sell beta 1 access later? And then beta 2? Come on guys, the only people that dont think that is awful are the people with access already, or the biggest intrepid supporters that dont want to say you're wrong.

I think everyone at intrepid is great. I think you guys do an amazing job, and i dont think its a bad thing to say you're making a massive mistake with this. You should just bring back pre order packs, before its too late. Change the pricing if you wish. But at least give people the option to pay ONE TIME for alpha and beta access, and maybe the option to buy a skin or game time with it. Doing it this way is just losing trust with a lot of people for no reason. You could still make plenty of money selling pre order packs similar to how they were before.

I feel like prefacing that you know not everyone is going to be happy with this, and that you cant please everyone, and that everyone is different, changes nothing. While those things are true, if you are targeting people without A2 access, and those people are telling you that this feels reeeaaally bad, then maybe its worth hearing out?

Buying an alpha 2 key for 120 bucks, without anything else, when some months ago you could have bought the $250 pack with all of this other stuff, does not feel good. At all.

Access to future Alpha-2 test phase
Access to future Beta-1 test phase
Access to future Beta-2 test phase
9 months of game time ($135 value)
$125 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits)
16,250 Embers total.
Also with multiple skins (dwelling, mount, etc) and a name reserve.

But now you want to sell ONLY alpha 2 access for half of that price? This is wild. There is absolutely no legitimate reason for doing this. Taking away a pre order this early is just crazy. You could put that same pack up for 250, take away the embers, drop the game time to 6 months, or 3 or whatever, throw in a costume, and still make a ton of money while not making people feel like they are worthless.

GG hope you change your mind.

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Comments

Otr

Hinotori wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

Hinotori wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

$175 is huge. Shouldn't be larger than the difference: $250 - $150 = $100
Was that info even available before purchase?

I used the beta 2 buyers as an example. They payed 75usd so the upgrade for them to alpha 2 is the extra 175 USD

The expeditionaries paid 150 USD and have to pay an extra $100 USD if they want to now join in.

The access keys on their own would have been fine. But now that they come with a month sub and embers beta holders got shafted.

ok, thanks for clarifying.
Given that with the upgrade they get the $20 cosmetic too which otherwise is gone forever (even if they don't care), and +2 months subscription ($30) and +$50 Embers, I think is a good option to consider.

After all we do it to get a good game out of this project.
I don't feel sad anymore for the $150 supporters.

You might not but you should. I'm not talking about upgrades or any of that stuff. I'm talking about All these old backers who might not be able to afford that upgrade but supported the game while they could watching these people who payed less get access sooner... (for a minimum of 19 months they'll have access before them.) Probably longer because there's likely delays with each delay making their purchase of a beta key even worse as time goes on due to the value of testing.

And those newer people get embers and sub time that has also lessened the value of their beta purchases when the game goes live launch.

They got the worst deal in the history of bad deals.

Yes, well, there are people who indeed can barely gather the required amount of money but I have difficulty to feel empathy for them because a self defense kicks in and asks the question why such poor people want to give money to Steven. My opinion is that the best experience comes on the full released game and they get subscription months on that better version. I don't say this A2 will be only testing as others say but when money is such a big constraint, I think priorities should be different.
And later they'll have to keep paying subscription.

While I understand them (if they they have no patience), I feel no empathy.

Hinotori wrote: »

I've seen a few people in outside communities laughing at the "poor beta" people who were proud to support intrepid early. And now they feel like a bunch of clowns.

Pride is a sin. Humbleness is a virtue.
Those laughing at them try to punish them if they did it for pride. But those who maintain their humbleness are worth to be praised.

Otr

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

The community and guild is supposed to keep you on the server... if you want to change it, you know what you do.

Alpha's community and guilds do not matter. Especially when we're a few months away from release (which betas will be).

If your padawans and apprentices move you have to move too

By Force if needed!

Ludullu

Otr wrote: »

If your padawans and apprentices move you have to move too
By Force if needed!

Nah, it's the other way around. People follow me, if they want, while I move around however I want

Iron_Salamander

This move made me abandon any idea of playing this game. There are more games than time in my life and this business practice is just scum. My opinion, don't care.

Ludullu

Iron_Salamander wrote: »

This move made me abandon any idea of playing this game. There are more games than time in my life and this business practice is just scum. My opinion, don't care.

I appreciate your opinion, mr

Iron_Salamander

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Iron_Salamander wrote: »

This move made me abandon any idea of playing this game. There are more games than time in my life and this business practice is just scum. My opinion, don't care.

I appreciate your opinion, mr

Who cares when someone created an account? That does not reflect how long someone has read threads. Thanks for the image and attempt at disparaging me on the public forum. Your not exactly changing minds and showing me how toxic this community really is.

Otr

Iron_Salamander wrote: »

This move made me abandon any idea of playing this game. There are more games than time in my life and this business practice is just scum. My opinion, don't care.

You was polite.
And you are correct. We don't even know how this game will be, once released.
If you have other better games, wouldn't be wise to waste time in this Alpha.

ModestVanity

Hinotori wrote: »

But it's a joke for previous purchasers who never cared about those and are at that low tier now seeing people closely matching your your original purchase value seeing these new people paying LESS and getting to jump ahead of you in the access queue

If they wanted in the Alpha line it was available to them. They chose the Beta line.

nanfoodle

Does not matter how IS rolled this out, there is always some reason, someone will get upset.

belephya

Yeah I understand that it's upset some people, but there's no obligation to buy it, so if it's not worth it to you then don't buy, seems simple enough.

Ludullu

Iron_Salamander wrote: »

Who cares when someone created an account? That does not reflect how long someone has read threads. Thanks for the image and attempt at disparaging me on the public forum. Your not exactly changing minds and showing me how toxic this community really is.

I just find it interesting that throughout all of your supposed following time you haven't made an account to support the development or give devs your opinion on stuff, but as soon as there's some huge drama you come in and say "oh this is scummy and I'm not gonna play the game".

You also didn't provide an alternative that would be acceptable to you. You didn't explain which part of the situation you consider scummy (cause there's several parts here). You simply created an account to say that you won't be using the account that you've just created.

lagz

Hinotori wrote: »

birnir wrote: »

I don't mind them selling access to the Alphas (if there is a market for it sell it). But i feel bit cheated since i bought a Beta pack at 150. and now i could be getting Alpha access for 120. I know there are "extras" in the pack but we all know why we bought our packs. If the idea was just to get more people into the Alphas then why not make a lottery for the beta people to access it or even better move them all there.

I'm with you buddy. I feel for all the beta holders. I may not be now, but I used to be one of you. And I would be feeling pretty miffed if I still were.

i just dont understand this take. Its like people will find any reason to get mad. If you intend on playing the game then what does it matter? If you hypothetically bought the 250 dollar pack then you got basically 200 dollars worth of game time and currency, and a couple skins. And if you dont intend on playing the game, regardless, you should not be spending 75 120 175 250 or 500 dollars just to alpha test a game. Thats crazy.

I get the idea that maybe you would test the game and come to the conclusion that its just not for you, but i feel like you could get that from youtube videos or watching other people. Spending this kind of money to alpha test is, i imagine, for people who intend to actually play the game and want to help with the process.

But again, let me say, for the 50th time, this is exaclty why they should have always been selling keys along with pre order packs. And why they still should be selling a single pre order pack, as well as the key pack. They could have dropped the price of the keys a bit, recouped some of that money in packs, and made more people happy.

lagz

Hinotori wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

I don't know how upgrades work. I was not aware it is already possible to upgrade.
Can you upgrade also to Alpha 2 (Voyager Pre-order Package)?

Yeah the b2 people can upgrade for an extra 175 USD if they want access to alpha 2. But it comes with all the skins and stuff associated with it.

But it's a joke for previous purchasers who never cared about those and are at that low tier now seeing people closely matching your your original purchase value seeing these new people paying LESS and getting to jump ahead of you in the access queue

I've seen a few people in outside communities laughing at the "poor beta" people who were proud to support intrepid early. And now they feel like a bunch of clowns.

ya that certainly is an issue that i think is valid. I still think a lot of people are missing the point of what was given in those packs and the understanding that it would be used on a finished game, but i see your issue. I think the way they have always gone about it sucks.

They should have always sold keys and pre order packs from the start, sold skins on the shop to anyone that bought a key or pre order, and made most people happy. But instead they chose fomo, taking the pre orders down, and now boxing themselves into a bit of a corner. This is what happens when you choose tactics like this instead of just being straight forward with the sales. It was so over complicated and unnecessary.

I think the only logical solution to this problem now is to offer the people with beta packs access to the alpha 2 key ONLY (not upgrading the pack to get the extra in game stuff and time) for a reduced cost. Like if you bought a beta pack maybe you can spend 20 bucks or 30 bucks or whatever they think it should cost, to only upgrade to alpha.

I think people keep putting aside the items these packs come with. Again, they should have sold keys alone but they didnt. But i mean, in 15 years, if you are alive, and the game launches, and you're actually playing it consistently, and probably wanting to buy things, you will get at least a good amount of your money back with game time. thats a lot of IFS but thats something people knew when buying these packs.

lagz

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

Hinotori wrote: »

I'm with you buddy. I feel for all the beta holders. I may not be now, but I used to be one of you. And I would be feeling pretty miffed if I still were.

Nah, only the stupid people spent money on beta bundles thinking that they're only buying access.

The mistakes of the consumer do not relate to the mistakes of the seller. Intrepid's only mistake rn is caving in to all the whiners and complainers, which led directly to fucking several types of people over. They should've just had a $120 key that gives you access to A2 in october. That's it.

All the people that, allegedly, made Intrepid put this sale out would buy it, and everyone else would shut up as soon as A2 is out, because they'd be watching streams of it.

Who are they fucking over? People who bought beta packs for 150 that came with 110 dollars of game time and currency, and 2 skins? The only thing ill agree with some people with is that they should have always just sold keys. Some of us want only alpha/beta access, and some of us actually want some other stuff included. This would have solved those issues. But again, those packs were more than just beta access.

But why do you think you only matter? Why do you think newer players should be charged a ridiculous price, that most people agree is ridiculous, to help test this game? Because they didnt know about it a year ago? Thats a garbage take. I love how i started this thread because of a bad choice intrepid made and now i have to defend them because people have such bad takes on this issue. There is a way for intrepid to be fair to almost everyone. The people who refuse to spend money on an alpha/beta test will never be happy, and are not in the equation. Intrepid chose to charge for testing a long time ago, so that ship has long since sailed.

Ludullu

lagz wrote: »

But again, let me say, for the 50th time, this is exaclty why they should have always been selling keys along with pre order packs. And why they still should be selling a single pre order pack, as well as the key pack. They could have dropped the price of the keys a bit, recouped some of that money in packs, and made more people happy.

Selling expensive stuff not only limits your buyers, but also gives you a ton of money. Having fewer buyers in this context means lesser expenditure later, while the ton of money side lets you develop for longer.

It's a perfect combo. If they sold keys at low prices (i.e. their bundle price of barely even $20) - they'd get a shitton of testers, all of whom will complain if they're not served (which means a shitton of servers which is expensive), while also gives Intrepid only 1/25, 1/12, 1/7, 1/3 of what bundles give you.

One person, allegedly, costs ~$6 a year of testing, in terms of purely server costs. Which means that a single purchase of the three keys (A2, B1, B2), which are priced at $20 in the 250 bundle, would only give intrepid 3 years of server costs for that person. A2 will already be 1.5 years w/o any delays. Most likely it's gonna be closer to 3 years. And then there's at least several months of betas as well.

So that price would already put Intrepid into the red per person. And I haven't even touched dev costs, which are waaaay bigger than server costs. So Steven would need to pay for all of those devs purely out of pocket.

In other words, by selling expensive bundles they both, made money and cut future server costs. 1/3 of dev costs so far have already been covered by those bundle sales. And now that they've changed these keys to bundles as well, they'll probably get a few more mil from these.

Whales always bring in more money than plebs.

lagz

@stev

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

lagz wrote: »

But again, let me say, for the 50th time, this is exaclty why they should have always been selling keys along with pre order packs. And why they still should be selling a single pre order pack, as well as the key pack. They could have dropped the price of the keys a bit, recouped some of that money in packs, and made more people happy.

Selling expensive stuff not only limits your buyers, but also gives you a ton of money. Having fewer buyers in this context means lesser expenditure later, while the ton of money side lets you develop for longer.

It's a perfect combo. If they sold keys at low prices (i.e. their bundle price of barely even $20) - they'd get a shitton of testers, all of whom will complain if they're not served (which means a shitton of servers which is expensive), while also gives Intrepid only 1/25, 1/12, 1/7, 1/3 of what bundles give you.

One person, allegedly, costs ~$6 a year of testing, in terms of purely server costs. Which means that a single purchase of the three keys (A2, B1, B2), which are priced at $20 in the 250 bundle, would only give intrepid 3 years of server costs for that person. A2 will already be 1.5 years w/o any delays. Most likely it's gonna be closer to 3 years. And then there's at least several months of betas as well.

So that price would already put Intrepid into the red per person. And I haven't even touched dev costs, which are waaaay bigger than server costs. So Steven would need to pay for all of those devs purely out of pocket.

In other words, by selling expensive bundles they both, made money and cut future server costs. 1/3 of dev costs so far have already been covered by those bundle sales. And now that they've changed these keys to bundles as well, they'll probably get a few more mil from these.

Whales always bring in more money than plebs.

I can agree with some of that. Your logic is certainly right on some of what you said, but no one said sell the keys at 20 dollars. I was thinking more like 60, if they also had some kind of more expensive pack along side it. But that price would of course be up to intrepid. And you're completely missing the fact that they have already sold a ludicrous amount of packs. 250, 375, 500.

I dont see how offering a 60 dollar key pack along side a 250 dollar pack similar to the one they already had could possibly lose them money. You can try to argue it, but imo its a waste of time. Whales do make them money, and as they said new people are discovering AOC every day. Having both options gives regular players an option and whales with money to spend an option.

I also disagree with your use of the word pleb. In my experience in most games the whales are usually the plebs. Useless players that can do little more than look good in the mmo or game they are playing. But of course they are always welcome in any game, they keep the lights on.

Ludullu

lagz wrote: »

But why do you think you only matter? Why do you think newer players should be charged a ridiculous price, that most people agree is ridiculous, to help test this game? Because they didnt know about it a year ago? Thats a garbage take. I love how i started this thread because of a bad choice intrepid made and now i have to defend them because people have such bad takes on this issue. There is a way for intrepid to be fair to almost everyone. The people who refuse to spend money on an alpha/beta test will never be happy, and are not in the equation. Intrepid chose to charge for testing a long time ago, so that ship has long since sailed.

People begged for keys. They would've gotten keys at $120, cause previous A2 access was a default 250. I don't care about people who learn about the game late, cause they'll have countless streams to watch.

And Intrepid are fucking over all the dumbasses that thought they were spending 250 on purely access. The dumbasses that spend 150 with the hopes of later upgrading higher. Now they're fucking over the $120 dudes, cause keys cost more than the bundle keys did. And the latest change to the $120 keys has fucked over anyone who only had the money for beta access and were fine with that, but now there's a bundle that's cheaper (or more expensive in the case of the B2 stuff) but also provides access to the entire A2 testing phase.

Intrepid should've had a single $120 pricetag on the A2 key. That key should've given access from oct 25. And it would've been fine. All the key beggers would've bought the key. They would've been fucked over with the price, but that's normal when you're buying something that's running out or is in super high demand. So the only ones being truly fucked over would be the people who delusionally believed that keys would only cost a few dozen $.

This has been a total needless mess, which is, at this point, a near-usual situation when it comes to Intrepid's presentation of information.

Ludullu

lagz wrote: »

I dont see how offering a 60 dollar key pack along side a 250 dollar pack similar to the one they already had could possibly lose them money. You can try to argue it, but imo its a waste of time. Whales do make them money, and as they said new people are discovering AOC every day. Having both options gives regular players an option and whales with money to spend an option.

When given a choice, majority of people go for the most lucrative for themselves one. The world is full of dumb people. And a ton of those dumb people bought a $250+ access to A2 already. (i.e. 100k+). If there was a direct key option at $60 - a ton of those dumb people would obviously go purely for it rather than the more expensive version. Which means that Intrepid would've lost 3/4 of their current income from those bundles.

All while the overall cost of servers and development wouldn't have changed, so they'd need 3 times the buyers of the $60 keys to get back to the same value. But as this current drama has shown, the poor normies don't consider spending money on an Alpha in any way valuable, so I doubt that Intrepid would've gotten enough of those $60 buyers to get the same amount of money they've gotten so far.

All the while the costs of servers would be higher, cause now you have four $60 people for each previously $250 person (let alone the 375 one), while you do not have 4 times the money.

lagz

Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »

lagz wrote: »

But why do you think you only matter? Why do you think newer players should be charged a ridiculous price, that most people agree is ridiculous, to help test this game? Because they didnt know about it a year ago? Thats a garbage take. I love how i started this thread because of a bad choice intrepid made and now i have to defend them because people have such bad takes on this issue. There is a way for intrepid to be fair to almost everyone. The people who refuse to spend money on an alpha/beta test will never be happy, and are not in the equation. Intrepid chose to charge for testing a long time ago, so that ship has long since sailed.

People begged for keys. They would've gotten keys at $120, cause previous A2 access was a default 250. I don't care about people who learn about the game late, cause they'll have countless streams to watch.

And Intrepid are fucking over all the dumbasses that thought they were spending 250 on purely access. The dumbasses that spend 150 with the hopes of later upgrading higher. Now they're fucking over the $120 dudes, cause keys cost more than the bundle keys did. And the latest change to the $120 keys has fucked over anyone who only had the money for beta access and were fine with that, but now there's a bundle that's cheaper (or more expensive in the case of the B2 stuff) but also provides access to the entire A2 testing phase.

Intrepid should've had a single $120 pricetag on the A2 key. That key should've given access from oct 25. And it would've been fine. All the key beggers would've bought the key. They would've been fucked over with the price, but that's normal when you're buying something that's running out or is in super high demand. So the only ones being truly fucked over would be the people who delusionally believed that keys would only cost a few dozen $.

This has been a total needless mess, which is, at this point, a near-usual situation when it comes to Intrepid's presentation of information.

It would have been fine? LOL to who? You? No. It would not have been fine. Why do you think so many people were disgusted over it? It was a terrible call to try and sell alpha 2 access ONLY for 120 bucks. You people keep overlooking the fact that those pre order packs came with other stuff. AGAIN, for 150 dollars you got 110 dollars worth of game stuff, plus a skin and beta access. S

I get where you are coming from, and i think it would be a good choice for intrepid to let those people that bought beta 1 packs, and beta 2 packs, upgrade the packs to alpha 2, without the game time, embers, skins, etc. For a lower price.

But i do not agree that the price for only alpha 2 access was ok. In the 250 dollar pack you got like 190 dollars worth of game time and embers. Plus 3 skins. Plus alpha and beta access. And you think someone should pay 120 for only alpha access? No. Thats unreasonable.

Oh, and no one thought you were spending 150 or 250 or 500 dollars on purely alpha/beta access. You would have to be blind to think that. IF you bought those packs and ONLY wanted alpha and beta access, and you had no intentions of playing the game at release, and had no need for the game time skins or embers, you should have NOT BOUGHT THE PACK. Its that simple.

Intrepid should have just sold keys without extras, along with the pre order packs, but they didnt. That was there choice and mistake, but it is what it is.

Ludullu

lagz wrote: »

Oh, and no one thought you were spending 150 or 250 or 500 dollars on purely alpha/beta access. You would have to be blind to think that. IF you bought those packs and ONLY wanted alpha and beta access, and you had no intentions of playing the game at release, and had no need for the game time skins or embers, you should have NOT BOUGHT THE PACK. Its that simple.

You are way too optimistic if you believe that there's no one who spent those money thinking they were only paying that for the access and nothing else.

There's already been complaints about "I spent 250 on A2, but these fuckers get it for 120?! That's unfair!" And those are just the vocal minority of all the dumbasses who were only buying access in those bundles.

Only a small % of people can plan ahead and see the benefit of the future. Literally everything in the support bundles was "the future". But out of all of those things the closest thing was always the alpha. It was also the most tangible of the bundle benefits, cause you'll be enjoying that for months and months, while cosmetics and sub are years away, so they don't matter now.

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