Wow, people are still crying about the "Persistent alpha" thing huh?
Honestly, this strikes me more as miscommunication then maliciousness. People are often so willing to assign blame as malicious, rather then what it often is, incompetence.
I think you still getting a persistent alpha, only what you think it is and what Intrepid think it is are two very different things. It seems most people expected that persistent alpha meant that either the servers would be up 24/7 with no down time, and no wipes up until launch, or just wouldn't be wipes up until launch. Which, frankly is kind of ridiculous to assume. Realistically, that was never going to happen.
People who thought otherwise really just do not understand how game development works.
That being said, your still very likely getting a persistent alpha. By which I mean, that there will be periods of time where the server will be up 24/7 without wipes for a period of time, for a couple of days or a week or so. Because they need to test this, it's very important that they do, and they know it.
I suspect this will happen during phase one, but they may test this multiple times during alpha. Esp since they need to put their server meshing technology through it's paces. They just need to be a heck of a lot more clear what their plans are here.
So when I got access i was under the impresion that it be available 24/7.
So real Alpha 2 that was promised is delayd until May 2025.
A bit shady of Intrepid i think.
idk, i feel like "shady" isnt the correct word... obviously they would release it sooner if they could to avoid people getting upset. But game development and software engineering is incredibly difficult, with problems popping up at every step.
I don't get, getting upset about games not being on time. Games rarely are. Been MMOing for over 20 years. My advice, don't wait for games. Just play games that are out now and follow a game only as far as your brain can handle. If I get upset about a game not out. I stop following it and play a game that's out.
Wow, people are still crying about the "Persistent alpha" thing huh?
Honestly, this strikes me more as miscommunication then maliciousness. People are often so willing to assign blame as malicious, rather then what it often is, incompetence.
I think you still getting a persistent alpha, only what you think it is and what Intrepid think it is are two very different things. It seems most people expected that persistent alpha meant that either the servers would be up 24/7 with no down time, and no wipes up until launch, or just wouldn't be wipes up until launch. Which, frankly is kind of ridiculous to assume. Realistically, that was never going to happen.
People who thought otherwise really just do not understand how game development works.
That being said, your still very likely getting a persistent alpha. By which I mean, that there will be periods of time where the server will be up 24/7 without wipes for a period of time, for a couple of days or a week or so. Because they need to test this, it's very important that they do, and they know it.
I suspect this will happen during phase one, but they may test this multiple times during alpha. Esp since they need to put their server meshing technology through it's paces. They just need to be a heck of a lot more clear what their plans are here.
Yeah, I don't think there was anything malicious here, just unforeseen delays and communication that could've happened sooner. I think they wanted to push for as long as they could towards their original goal and it was just too close to the release promised last year to communicate that it was being delayed/changed gracefully.
Yeah.... their communication to stand to be a lot better. They seem to regularly put foot firmly in mouth.
I prefer to believe only half of what I see, and none of what I hear. Less disappointment that way.
I am happy they make only weekend test at beginning. I mean why not. So they have most possible player on their server and can test important tech things. Also its only for 2 month and then we are 5+ days which mean nearly all day online...
Its a long term alpha and in all alphas i was it was the same: Big hype at beginning but "player"(tester) count will drop after you saw the things which are in yet. We dont know how many time you can spend ingame yet.
I think you still getting a persistent alpha, only what you think it is and what Intrepid think it is are two very different things. It seems most people expected that persistent alpha meant that either the servers would be up 24/7 with no down time, and no wipes up until launch, or just wouldn't be wipes up until launch. Which, frankly is kind of ridiculous to assume.
Steven literally sold this game on a 24/7 uptime for Alpha 2.
Steven: "Persistent for us means that we're going to keep [Alpha 2] servers up all day and night until launch."
I think you still getting a persistent alpha, only what you think it is and what Intrepid think it is are two very different things. It seems most people expected that persistent alpha meant that either the servers would be up 24/7 with no down time, and no wipes up until launch, or just wouldn't be wipes up until launch. Which, frankly is kind of ridiculous to assume.
Steven literally sold this game on a 24/7 uptime for Alpha 2.
Steven: "Persistent for us means that we're going to keep [Alpha 2] servers up all day and night until launch."
Plans change all the time in development unfortunately. For example I was working on a major new feature for a project for several months and a week before it was going to go live a couple of major technical and administrative issues came up and that feature is now on hold indefinitely. This sort of thing happens in software development more often than most people realize.
There's most likely a very good reason for Alpha 2 not being up 24/7 right away and it's probably something that arose recently (if I had to guess it was something related to server meshing but I don't think we'll get a clear answer on what happened). They probably could and should have communicated that the initial plan for Alpha 2 had the potential to change sooner than they did though.
So when I got access i was under the impresion that it be available 24/7.
So real Alpha 2 that was promised is delayd until May 2025.
A bit shady of Intrepid i think.
The real Alpha is end of october where they will have people testing the game in large numbers and fixing / improving things with the data.
Why is your expectations its a game without any of the work required in the alpha stage? You really ought to understand what you are buying, and stop thinking alpha = early access.
Am not thinking about this as a ea. But I was thinking about it as a live service that was available 24/7 from the geko as most did.
so u wanted a GAME to play from the start? this is not and steven said it many times a game to play this is a product to test. people seem to not understand that and keep thinking their going to be playing a fully fledged game with a few bugs here and there that they can press a report button about and then carryon their merry way ><
This video is from six years ago, they clearly adapted their approach based on new conditions and different needs.
Then why not say that until now? Why try to pass what you promised as "Alpha 2" as "Phase 3" - just come out and say it.
"Hey, we promised you a persistent server with 24/7 access for Alpha 2, we sold you keys based on those statements. Unfortunately, we can't deliver on that promise until May 2025, but we're going to be running some smaller tests until then."
That's all they had to do. But radio silence on the bait and switch without mentioning what they said before is SCUMMY.
This video is from six years ago, they clearly adapted their approach based on new conditions and different needs.
Then why not say that until now? Why try to pass what you promised as "Alpha 2" as "Phase 3" - just come out and say it.
"Hey, we promised you a persistent server with 24/7 access for Alpha 2, we sold you keys based on those statements. Unfortunately, we can't deliver on that promise until May 2025, but we're going to be running some smaller tests until then."
That's all they had to do. But radio silence on the bait and switch without mentioning what they said before is SCUMMY.
So you're saying it's not the fact that it happened, it's how it was communicated?
That's perfectly fair. However, you do have to acknowledge the difficulty in getting that level of nuance perfect.
You are saying they are not being explicit enough, am I correct?
yep, considering that up until a week ago ''everything is on schedule and we still intend to hit a Q3 A2 launch date '' seems like a huge kick in the gut, an almost 1 year delay just on A2 launch.., and i think its not okay to pretend that A2 is launching in October, these are just spot tests and lets call it out like it is
This video is from six years ago, they clearly adapted their approach based on new conditions and different needs.
Then why not say that until now? Why try to pass what you promised as "Alpha 2" as "Phase 3" - just come out and say it.
"Hey, we promised you a persistent server with 24/7 access for Alpha 2, we sold you keys based on those statements. Unfortunately, we can't deliver on that promise until May 2025, but we're going to be running some smaller tests until then."
That's all they had to do. But radio silence on the bait and switch without mentioning what they said before is SCUMMY.
So you're saying it's not the fact that it happened, it's how it was communicated?
That's perfectly fair. However, you do have to acknowledge the difficulty in getting that level of nuance perfect.
You are saying they are not being explicit enough, am I correct?
I'm saying they didn't even try to thread the needle, they just rolled out the Alpha 2 roadmap and hoped nobody noticed what they defined Alpha 2 was no longer the case. The sold the keys to Alpha 2 based on 24/7 uptime on the servers. That's now not happening until May 2025. Not acknowledging that delay is scummy behavior.
idk - maybe. It's August and they are clarifying how they are approaching A2 in October based on best thinking. Yeah - it's different than what they said six years ago (but so are a lot more important things *cough* naval pvp).
I agree that they could have telegraphed this better (if they knew) before the official update on A2. Not the way I would've approached it, but for me it's a sunk cost so I'm not bent out of shape either way. Not 'scummy' to me - more like expected level of mess from a relatively small, new product company.
I'll test A2 when it's available and do other stuff when it's not. Not like A2 is going to go quickly...
my expectations were set by steven when he Wrote something next to a pricetag ...
i dont need to make a phd in game developement to understand that what people sell me is what they should deliver ...
And what were you sold that isn't being delivered? And don't say "Alpha 2 in Q3" because that was announced with a huge caveat saying that release window was tentative and subject to change.
This is still going on with people whining. Like its a bad look when its a alpha and people are out here crying they can't play 24/7 in the start of a ALPHA.
Yall need to touch grass if u don't understand the basic process for build up of the alpha and the fact they need to do server work + fix other issues.
The actual level of crying is getting insane from the same handful of people @Blip@Chicago@patrick68794@KingRajesh. Your point makes 0 sense trying to throw misinformation out there and stretch out certain quotes 6 years ago, while have 0 understanding of the planning and ignoring recent messaging. Go find a quote in recent times saying alpha 2 starts with no ram up and people will be playing.24/7 without down time. You won't find it.
ITs wild you are trying to throw unreasonable criticism out yet, you defiantly can't criticism yourself on your click bait being extremely weak. Some people again can not handle alpha development, because the only thing people are concerted about is playing 24/7 like they are actually playing a full game.
my expectations were set by steven when he Wrote something next to a pricetag ...
i dont need to make a phd in game developement to understand that what people sell me is what they should deliver ...
Last i checked Alpha 2 will be persistent and that is what you bought. If you can't understand development and feel alpha = early access. You again really need to do some research before you throw your money. That comes to your own ignorance thinking alpha = early access and that you will just be suddenly given a early access game. Instead of being apart of the development and testing the game.
Its not hard to understand a game being built will need to be tested and work towards what they need to do. IE testing their servers and fixing things, they don't need people on as they are doing that. Nor do they need to be paying people even more so during that time period with live ops.
In the end you dont care about the alpha you are here not caring how much money they spend just so you can paly the game 24/7. Which again screams you think its early access and not a alpha.
This video is from six years ago, they clearly adapted their approach based on new conditions and different needs.
Then why not say that until now? Why try to pass what you promised as "Alpha 2" as "Phase 3" - just come out and say it.
"Hey, we promised you a persistent server with 24/7 access for Alpha 2, we sold you keys based on those statements. Unfortunately, we can't deliver on that promise until May 2025, but we're going to be running some smaller tests until then."
That's all they had to do. But radio silence on the bait and switch without mentioning what they said before is SCUMMY.
So you're saying it's not the fact that it happened, it's how it was communicated?
That's perfectly fair. However, you do have to acknowledge the difficulty in getting that level of nuance perfect.
You are saying they are not being explicit enough, am I correct?
I'm saying they didn't even try to thread the needle, they just rolled out the Alpha 2 roadmap and hoped nobody noticed what they defined Alpha 2 was no longer the case. The sold the keys to Alpha 2 based on 24/7 uptime on the servers. That's now not happening until May 2025. Not acknowledging that delay is scummy behavior.
You literally don't know what they sold alpha keys on....
Like i actually can't people out here are completely looking at AoC as releasing as a game at this point with thoughts like this
you missundestand the issue bc you cant wrap your head around other people who actually believe what somebody says ... and not carry bags of salt around ... if they do spot testing before A2 launch ... great ... if we get access to those spot test ... even better ...
but calling the spot tests Launch of A2 is silly ,if it was obvously defined as 24/7 access before ....if you change the definition of things ... it always looks bad ... he just calls everything A2 at this point ... that is silly .... mai will be the launch of the original intended A2 ... i see it in a way that we get access even before A2 launch now... and i guess bc he doesnt want to admit that he has to delay it again ...
IF ALWAYS WAS TOTALLY CLEAR that spottesting is the way to start alpha 2 ... THEN WHY DIDNT THEY SAY SO .... and spread missinformation themself ... STEVEN did inform people about persistent ALPHA 2 so he set those expectations...
i heard so many times here that "noone hold a gun to your head to buy into this" as a defence for this scummy alpha key sale tactics ...
noone hold a gun to stevens head to spread information that alpha 2 will be persistent and say that it literally means 24/7 access in an interview ...
people are beeing mocked here who believed steven .... and thats very toxic .... hold him accountable instead of blocking anything from your holy messiah .....
you missundestand the issue bc you cant wrap your head around other people who actually believe what somebody says ... and not carry bags of salt around ... if they do spot testing before A2 launch ... great ... if we get access to those spot test ... even better ...
but calling the spot tests Launch of A2 is silly ,if it was obvously defined as 24/7 access before ....if you change the definition of things ... it always looks bad ... he just calls everything A2 at this point ... that is silly .... mai will be the launch of the original intended A2 ... i see it in a way that we get access even before A2 launch now... and i guess bc he doesnt want to admit that he has to delay it again ...
IF ALWAYS WAS TOTALLY CLEAR that spottesting is the way to start alpha 2 ... THEN WHY DIDNT THEY SAY SO .... and spread missinformation themself ... STEVEN did inform people about persistent ALPHA 2 so he set those expectations...
i heard so many times here that "noone hold a gun to your head to buy into this" as a defence for this scummy alpha key sale tactics ...
noone hold a gun to stevens head to spread information that alpha 2 will be persistent and say that it literally means 24/7 access in an interview ...
people are beeing mocked here who believed steven .... and thats very toxic .... hold him accountable instead of blocking anything from your holy messiah .....
yep, considering that up until a week ago ''everything is on schedule and we still intend to hit a Q3 A2 launch date ''
seems like a huge kick in the gut, an almost 1 year delay just on A2 launch
and i think its not okay to pretend that A2 is launching in October, these are just spot tests and lets call it out like it is
You are exactly on point, sadly.
Yet ... ... ... ... this doesn't change - what we must do. * glances over to late October and early November * ... ... ... ... come Hell and high Water.
Let us break the Connection in these Connection-Stresstest Phase as much as we can.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
To me, Alpha 2 phase 2 sounds a lot like what they promised. Any time persistence came up for A2 it had a bunch of caveats for server maintenance, patching, downtime, etc.
Assuming phase 2 means servers are up ~5 nights a week (barring unexpected issues), and the 2 days of outages are scheduled in advance, that pretty much hits what anyone should expect from an "alpha"
"Testing for the 5+ days may fall on a variety of different days. As we head into this phase, we will provide a more detailed schedule for folks to plan around"
Comments
Honestly, this strikes me more as miscommunication then maliciousness. People are often so willing to assign blame as malicious, rather then what it often is, incompetence.
I think you still getting a persistent alpha, only what you think it is and what Intrepid think it is are two very different things. It seems most people expected that persistent alpha meant that either the servers would be up 24/7 with no down time, and no wipes up until launch, or just wouldn't be wipes up until launch. Which, frankly is kind of ridiculous to assume. Realistically, that was never going to happen.
People who thought otherwise really just do not understand how game development works.
That being said, your still very likely getting a persistent alpha. By which I mean, that there will be periods of time where the server will be up 24/7 without wipes for a period of time, for a couple of days or a week or so. Because they need to test this, it's very important that they do, and they know it.
I suspect this will happen during phase one, but they may test this multiple times during alpha. Esp since they need to put their server meshing technology through it's paces. They just need to be a heck of a lot more clear what their plans are here.
idk, i feel like "shady" isnt the correct word... obviously they would release it sooner if they could to avoid people getting upset. But game development and software engineering is incredibly difficult, with problems popping up at every step.
Yeah, I don't think there was anything malicious here, just unforeseen delays and communication that could've happened sooner. I think they wanted to push for as long as they could towards their original goal and it was just too close to the release promised last year to communicate that it was being delayed/changed gracefully.
I prefer to believe only half of what I see, and none of what I hear. Less disappointment that way.
Its a long term alpha and in all alphas i was it was the same: Big hype at beginning but "player"(tester) count will drop after you saw the things which are in yet. We dont know how many time you can spend ingame yet.
Why am I linked in this? XD
Steven literally sold this game on a 24/7 uptime for Alpha 2.
Steven: "Persistent for us means that we're going to keep [Alpha 2] servers up all day and night until launch."
Plans change all the time in development unfortunately. For example I was working on a major new feature for a project for several months and a week before it was going to go live a couple of major technical and administrative issues came up and that feature is now on hold indefinitely. This sort of thing happens in software development more often than most people realize.
There's most likely a very good reason for Alpha 2 not being up 24/7 right away and it's probably something that arose recently (if I had to guess it was something related to server meshing but I don't think we'll get a clear answer on what happened). They probably could and should have communicated that the initial plan for Alpha 2 had the potential to change sooner than they did though.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
so u wanted a GAME to play from the start? this is not and steven said it many times a game to play this is a product to test. people seem to not understand that and keep thinking their going to be playing a fully fledged game with a few bugs here and there that they can press a report button about and then carryon their merry way ><
Then why not say that until now? Why try to pass what you promised as "Alpha 2" as "Phase 3" - just come out and say it.
"Hey, we promised you a persistent server with 24/7 access for Alpha 2, we sold you keys based on those statements. Unfortunately, we can't deliver on that promise until May 2025, but we're going to be running some smaller tests until then."
That's all they had to do. But radio silence on the bait and switch without mentioning what they said before is SCUMMY.
So you're saying it's not the fact that it happened, it's how it was communicated?
That's perfectly fair. However, you do have to acknowledge the difficulty in getting that level of nuance perfect.
You are saying they are not being explicit enough, am I correct?
I'm saying they didn't even try to thread the needle, they just rolled out the Alpha 2 roadmap and hoped nobody noticed what they defined Alpha 2 was no longer the case. The sold the keys to Alpha 2 based on 24/7 uptime on the servers. That's now not happening until May 2025. Not acknowledging that delay is scummy behavior.
I agree that they could have telegraphed this better (if they knew) before the official update on A2. Not the way I would've approached it, but for me it's a sunk cost so I'm not bent out of shape either way. Not 'scummy' to me - more like expected level of mess from a relatively small, new product company.
I'll test A2 when it's available and do other stuff when it's not. Not like A2 is going to go quickly...
Must be a brain fart on my end, sorry about that.
my expectations were set by steven when he Wrote something next to a pricetag ...
i dont need to make a phd in game developement to understand that what people sell me is what they should deliver ...
And what were you sold that isn't being delivered? And don't say "Alpha 2 in Q3" because that was announced with a huge caveat saying that release window was tentative and subject to change.
Yall need to touch grass if u don't understand the basic process for build up of the alpha and the fact they need to do server work + fix other issues.
The actual level of crying is getting insane from the same handful of people @Blip @Chicago @patrick68794 @KingRajesh. Your point makes 0 sense trying to throw misinformation out there and stretch out certain quotes 6 years ago, while have 0 understanding of the planning and ignoring recent messaging. Go find a quote in recent times saying alpha 2 starts with no ram up and people will be playing.24/7 without down time. You won't find it.
ITs wild you are trying to throw unreasonable criticism out yet, you defiantly can't criticism yourself on your click bait being extremely weak. Some people again can not handle alpha development, because the only thing people are concerted about is playing 24/7 like they are actually playing a full game.
Last i checked Alpha 2 will be persistent and that is what you bought. If you can't understand development and feel alpha = early access. You again really need to do some research before you throw your money. That comes to your own ignorance thinking alpha = early access and that you will just be suddenly given a early access game. Instead of being apart of the development and testing the game.
Its not hard to understand a game being built will need to be tested and work towards what they need to do. IE testing their servers and fixing things, they don't need people on as they are doing that. Nor do they need to be paying people even more so during that time period with live ops.
In the end you dont care about the alpha you are here not caring how much money they spend just so you can paly the game 24/7. Which again screams you think its early access and not a alpha.
You literally don't know what they sold alpha keys on....
Like i actually can't people out here are completely looking at AoC as releasing as a game at this point with thoughts like this
but calling the spot tests Launch of A2 is silly ,if it was obvously defined as 24/7 access before ....if you change the definition of things ... it always looks bad ... he just calls everything A2 at this point ... that is silly .... mai will be the launch of the original intended A2 ... i see it in a way that we get access even before A2 launch now... and i guess bc he doesnt want to admit that he has to delay it again ...
IF ALWAYS WAS TOTALLY CLEAR that spottesting is the way to start alpha 2 ... THEN WHY DIDNT THEY SAY SO .... and spread missinformation themself ... STEVEN did inform people about persistent ALPHA 2 so he set those expectations...
i heard so many times here that "noone hold a gun to your head to buy into this" as a defence for this scummy alpha key sale tactics ...
noone hold a gun to stevens head to spread information that alpha 2 will be persistent and say that it literally means 24/7 access in an interview ...
people are beeing mocked here who believed steven .... and thats very toxic .... hold him accountable instead of blocking anything from your holy messiah .....
Well said!
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
You are exactly on point, sadly.
Yet ... ... ... ... this doesn't change - what we must do.
* glances over to late October and early November * ... ... ... ... come Hell and high Water.
Let us break the Connection in these Connection-Stresstest Phase as much as we can.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
Assuming phase 2 means servers are up ~5 nights a week (barring unexpected issues), and the 2 days of outages are scheduled in advance, that pretty much hits what anyone should expect from an "alpha"
Wasn't it five workdays a week ?
In the End, well ... ... ... * shrugs *
I have waited one Time for almost an Eternity between September 2023 and middle of August this Month,
i can DO'IT'AGAAAIIINNN.
If i can help testing before Quarter Two of 2025, i shall gladly do that, though.
✓ Occasional Roleplayer
✓ Kinda starting to look for a Guild right now. (German)
I believe it was said somewhere down Monday and Tuesday and up Wednesday to Sunday.
But it says here.
"Testing for the 5+ days may fall on a variety of different days. As we head into this phase, we will provide a more detailed schedule for folks to plan around"