Removing Waypoints During Questing: A More Immersive Exploration?

Hello everyone,

I wonder if it would be interesting to remove these automatic waypoints to encourage players to truly explore and pay attention to the details of the surrounding environment. This could make quests more challenging and strengthen the connection with the game's world.

any thought on this ?

This is how mmorpgs worked before and it was much better.

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Caww

Sure... let me get lost and wander the landscape for hours of directionless enjoyment...

MajorGeraldX

Caww wrote: »

Sure... let me get lost and wander the landscape for hours of directionless enjoyment...

What if the quests were more detailed? Could you find your way by reading these?

Caww

I was just being snarky but with a hint of what would actually happen to me. Unless there is a compelling storyline most quests are not worth the time to actually read beyond cursory examination. The devs shouldn't spend time developing masterpiece stories just to save 7 villagers.

MajorGeraldX

I don't agree with you and it's not about giving an epic character to quests that aren't worth it. I mean if in the quest you are told the villagers are to the west next to a house, is it so difficult for you to go west and find these villagers by yourself? Do you need a waypoint to find your way and prevent yourself from getting lost?

Caww

MajorGeraldX wrote: »

I don't agree with you ....

Democracy... everyone is entitled to an opinion

MajorGeraldX

Caww wrote: »

MajorGeraldX wrote: »

I don't agree with you ....

Democracy... everyone is entitled to an opinion

This is why i'm asking the question, "Do you need a waypoint to find your way and prevent yourself from getting lost?"

I'm trying to figure it out

RocketFarmer

Depends on the quest.

For some quests related to investigation where you aren’t told to go to a specific location, then no automatic waypoints should show up. The player should however be able to mark their own waypoints on their map associated to the quest through exploring and searching for clues.

For quests directing you to go to a specific location, why not have the waypoint added automatically by the quest?

As for questing, a lot of players will use multiple waypoints to determine what area to head to during a session. So they tend to work multiple quests at the same time.

Caww

RocketFarmer wrote: »

Depends on the quest.

For some quests related to investigation where you aren’t told to go to a specific location, then no automatic waypoints should show up. The player should however be able to mark their own waypoints on their map associated to the quest through exploring and searching for clues.

For quests directing you to go to a specific location, why not have the waypoint added automatically by the quest?

As for questing, a lot of players will use multiple waypoints to determine what area to head to during a session. So they tend to work multiple quests at the same time.

what he said...

MajorGeraldX

Caww wrote: »

RocketFarmer wrote: »

For quests directing you to go to a specific location, why not have the waypoint added automatically by the quest?

Cant you add waypoint yourself on this type of quest ?

Kilion

I agree that waypoints etc "shouldn't" be necessary while questing. HOWEVER, this all comes down to the quality of quest design. Take for example the last livestream:

One thing I would certainly say is a marker who has a quest in the first place would be great and I think that citizens of religious Nodes or players who have a shrine in their freehold could get a clearer indicator seen from further away to find the starting points of quests. (This is under the assumption that religious nodes' "theme" is "PvE" and quest activity).

As for quest goals, I think area marks are enough, if certain objects are necessary to progress the quest, I'd suggest a "twinkling" indicator that activates automatically after a character spends a certain time in the quest area. e.g. after 30 min (maybe even make this dependent on the Intelligence stat of that character?) looking for the components of the Toy Soldier in the Oakenbane Castle ruins, getting near a mob that drops a part of it triggers a 2 second twinkling effect that indicates a point of interest, same could be done when passing by the grave where you ultimately have to lay down the completed toy soldier.

But routing indicators on the map are too much, I found myself looking a lot at the map in games that have that and when something ended up not being marked on the map despite me being there before I realized I had no idea how to get there or where exactly that place was - that is not good for an immersive game.

MajorGeraldX

Kilion wrote: »

I'd suggest a "twinkling" indicator that activates automatically after a character spends a certain time in the quest area. e.g. after 30 min (maybe even make this dependent on the Intelligence stat of that character?)

Great idea

Rorchard

Having to find your own way can make the game world feel more alive and engaging.

Laetitian

Caww wrote: »

I was just being snarky but with a hint of what would actually happen to me. Unless there is a compelling storyline most quests are not worth the time to actually read beyond cursory examination. The devs shouldn't spend time developing masterpiece stories just to save 7 villagers.

It's a tough question, and good points been made about Ashes in particular having to rely on automatable systems because of its modular world and node state design.

But what I know for sure is that I'd rather spend 5 hours stumbling about while actively engaged in figuring out what to do than 3 hours ticking off tasks by following exclamation marks with my brain entirely shut off.
If I don't want to think, I can go farm overland map monsters or an easy dungeon. I don't need quests for that.

If the lack of directions make quests take substantially longer, you can offset that by also adding more encounters to complete them, and then rewarding them with more XP, and then you also keep dev time equal by designing fewer, but more challenging/engaging quests.

CROW3

I like the idea of giving basic directions without UI nav points. ‘I was attacked north of here, over the ridge where the trees get thinner. I think i dropped my pack near the big stone outcropping where I hid to catch my breath..’

Yes, it’s possible to get lost. But that’s where you might stumble upon a side quest, such as ‘Escort @Caww to safety.’

MajorGeraldX

CROW3 wrote: »

Yes, it’s possible to get lost. But that’s where you might stumble upon a side quest, such as ‘Escort @Caww to safety.’

I laught

Aszkalon

MajorGeraldX wrote: »

Removing Waypoints During Questing: A More Immersive Exploration ?

Same as always,

i think the best Option People can quickly settle for - > is that certain Tools of "Help" during Quests are completely optional.

That You can choose for yourself if you want to see for example a "glowing/marked Region" on your Minimap, which Points You into the right Direction of a Quest You saw for example on a Questboard.

During the Times of good, old Gothic 1 and 2 - on the Island of Khorinis - i could find my Quest Objectives always and i truly mean : ALWAYS - without anything that would help me - besides the Questgiver giving me a description of where to go.

It was the best.
Absolutely the best.
Sometimes extremely dangerous for my Character - but that made fulfilling the Quests only the more worthwhile and worthy.

Kyskei

I had immense fun playing Morrowind and using map + directions + exploration to find places.
it also made me stumble on to a lot of different things while I was out in the wild exploring. if they can bring some of that wonder to ashes then I am all for it.

Caeryl

Aszkalon wrote: »

MajorGeraldX wrote: »

Removing Waypoints During Questing: A More Immersive Exploration ?

i think the best Option People can quickly settle for - > is that certain Tools of "Help" during Quests are completely optional.

That You can choose for yourself if you want to see for example a "glowing/marked Region" on your Minimap, which Points You into the right Direction of a Quest You saw for example on a Questboard.

This is actually something you definitely couldn’t do, because Ashes is a competitive game, even with some of the questing. If only X people can complete a quest (such as with particular gathering tasks) then the people using the UI pointers is going to get it done faster.

It’s gotta be one or the other, either we have the waypoint guidance for everyone or, for no one during any given quest, otherwise it just ends up punishing the people who don’t use the Point-Me systems.

Dygz

The challenge is not supposed to be finding the fun you want to have during your play session.

Caww

CROW3 wrote: »

Yes, it’s possible to get lost. But that’s where you might stumble upon a side quest, such as ‘Escort @Caww to safety.’

Did I get lost already??? I knew it...

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