Pendragxn wrote: » In my opinion, a hybrid combat system needs to strike a balance between tab-target abilities and action combat. That's the whole point—finding that sweet spot. It’s important to balance skill-based defensives with action-based dodging and countering. Some abilities just naturally work better as tab-target, while others feel more intuitive with action combat. For example, if a mob throws a spear using a tab/lock-on ability and I use an action combat skill to dodge, I should be able to evade the attack. It’s all about making sure both systems complement each other and work smoothly together.
Pendragxn wrote: » That’s why I think having a stamina bar is crucial, much like managing mana. Tying stamina to action combat abilities makes sense because it prevents players from constantly evading every tab-target or lock-on attack. If you don’t manage your stamina properly, you shouldn’t be able to dodge everything with just action combat skills. It adds a layer of strategy, forcing players to think about when to use their dodges or counters instead of relying on them endlessly. It helps maintain balance between the two systems, ensuring that neither becomes overpowered.
Caeryl wrote: » Elden Ring is an especially good example of an RPG that utilizes active defenses on top of gear based resistances
Noaani wrote: » It should indeed be extremely obvious when someone has dodged one of your attacks. This is usually accomplished by putting the word "dodged" or "blocked" or "parried" or "resisted" in the floating combat feedback in game, as well as in the combat log. It is blatantly obvious.
Noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Elden Ring is an especially good example of an RPG that utilizes active defenses on top of gear based resistances Yes, and the result is a game with action combat. Not hybrid combat. That combat is literally what Intrepid are trying to avoid - just as much as they are trying to avoid tab target combat. More actually, since tab target is their stated default if hybrid doesn't work.
Caeryl wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Elden Ring is an especially good example of an RPG that utilizes active defenses on top of gear based resistances Yes, and the result is a game with action combat. Not hybrid combat. That combat is literally what Intrepid are trying to avoid - just as much as they are trying to avoid tab target combat. More actually, since tab target is their stated default if hybrid doesn't work. Keep your goal posts in one spot. Active dodging, which is ALL we're discussing here right now, is not remotely 'anti-rpg' like you claimed
Caeryl wrote: » Yeah, that's my point. That's playing the UI instead of the game. You should be able to see (no text at all) if the player dodged, or if they're in a blocking/parry stance, or if they're stunned. These need to be communicated in the game space, not just the UI. That's not immersive at all.
Noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Yeah, that's my point. That's playing the UI instead of the game. You should be able to see (no text at all) if the player dodged, or if they're in a blocking/parry stance, or if they're stunned. These need to be communicated in the game space, not just the UI. That's not immersive at all. Why? You are literally saying that some visual indicator for a stunned character like birds floating around the characters head is less immersion breaking than a word.
Caeryl wrote: » It's genuinely odd to me that you can't imagine an indicator outside of being spoon-fed the information as text.
If you're regularly looking at your combat log during combat to figure out what's going on, then that combat system was inadequately designed.
Caeryl wrote: » They 'worked' when that was the only option, but it's an outdated system that isn't particularly engaging and it severely lacks in skill expression.
Caeryl wrote: » And you can easily create systems that have both active dodging and stat based defense. The presence of actively dodging some damage doesn't detract from methods of mitigating damage that does hit, which is all that armor should be for anyway.
Caeryl wrote: » The fact that 'evasion' could be a stat on armor that triggers even if you literally never move is absurd.
Noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » They 'worked' when that was the only option, but it's an outdated system But it still works. Saying your game is a hybrid of tab and action, but limiting defense to action only - that doesn't work. I feel the need to remind you again here that if hybrid doesn't work, action is not the default - tab is, because it works. You can claim it's outdated all you like, but if there isn't a better system... Action combat is not a better system for an MMORPG, because it reduces the value of gear based upgrades, which are kind of the focus most people have in MMORPG's - essentially action combat is anti-MMO. The fact that 'evasion' could be a stat on armor that triggers even if you literally never move is absurd. I mean, it's not. Evading an attack could mean something as simple as a sway to one direction. You don't need to move your feet in order to evade. The notion that movement is required to evade is absurd. As to the notion of RNG, people that blame it are just bad at what ever it is they are talking about. This is especially true in an MMORPG where RNG is actually not all that random - and in the context of an entire fight, only makes up 1 or 2%.
Caeryl wrote: » They 'worked' when that was the only option, but it's an outdated system
The fact that 'evasion' could be a stat on armor that triggers even if you literally never move is absurd.
Noaani wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » It's genuinely odd to me that you can't imagine an indicator outside of being spoon-fed the information as text. My argument here is twofold. First, it is that there is no logical way that text can be immersion breaking, but an animation that looks nothing like the thing it is trying to communicate isn't. If that is the case for you, it is literally because you are either lettign it be the case, or you are forcing it to be the case. Second, text is the best means of communication of simple ideas that has ever been devised. If you're regularly looking at your combat log during combat to figure out what's going on, then that combat system was inadequately designed. This is something I agree with - I don't have my combat log up in game at all, and only look at my tracker when I have finished with the content piece, or the days play. The text is in the game first, but there is a permanant record of it in the log for if you need it for what ever reason. This is why I mentioned the log. It's a log, it's function should be obvious (it is a chronological record of actions to be referred to at a later time if that is necessary - literally the point of any logbook). And if you are attempting to play a tab target game to it's fullest, there are reasons.
Dygz wrote: » Again - RPGs are about the skills and abilities of the characters; not the skills and abilities of the players. Sure... Active Block and Active Dodge are fun enhancements - especially for visual story-telling - but the quick reactions of the player shoud have minimal effect on RPG gameplay. Same with a character's aim. I should be able to build the accuracy of my character's aim to be godlike - even if my own, personal aim as a player sucks. If the genre is BR or Shooter, sure... that should be all about the quick reactions of the player and the character's stats mostly irrelevant.
Flanker wrote: » I haven't read everything, but has anyone mentioned that if you don't want to take a ranged attack (both in PvP and PvE), you might consider making sure that there is an obstacle between you and your enemy?
Apok wrote: » what an ignorant thing to say, who are you to say what is and isn't an RPG. so what is fallout, new world, elden ring, guild wars, elder scrolls, mana series, etc. what kind of games are those?
Apok wrote: » you're gonna tell me one style of games usual way of doing things doesn't fit into other games? why is borderlands so popular then you level up in that game like you would an RPG that's not very shooter like.
Apok wrote: » you guys will come up with any excuse to make this game into a carebear game.
Flanker wrote: » I mean, New World was an RPG (don't know what it is now, but it definitely was in 2021-2022) and it required all of those: character skills, player skills, blocks, dodging, quick reactions, accuracy. I don't know how you can say that about all RPGs when it is simply not true.
