Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Pull off leveling and Artisanship as Immersive
Caracarn
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Hello
I clearly rememebered and liked what Steven said in the early days that Ashes will be a nice experience while leveling up and not as most MMO's that you need to get to max level as fast as possible because then the game begins.
How will they make that true when Landhold are a very tough quest but to get there you need max level. In perspective that it is a limited amount of holds and also that highest Processing is on those landholds?
Another very interesting matter is the Artisanship with for example crafting. How can they make each item valid in the game and not "just" something you need to level up your crafting skill fast?
Usually players find out quickly which item is easiest to craft in aspect of XP gained, but it is worthless on the market in perspective of using it while fighting players/NPC or Mobs. How to solve that?
For example I clearly remembered Skyrim when you wanted to level up Blacksmithing fast fot the "juicy" stuff and you chose iron daggers but the item itself was no point fighting with.
Interesting to read what you wise ones have to say in this.
I clearly rememebered and liked what Steven said in the early days that Ashes will be a nice experience while leveling up and not as most MMO's that you need to get to max level as fast as possible because then the game begins.
How will they make that true when Landhold are a very tough quest but to get there you need max level. In perspective that it is a limited amount of holds and also that highest Processing is on those landholds?
Another very interesting matter is the Artisanship with for example crafting. How can they make each item valid in the game and not "just" something you need to level up your crafting skill fast?
Usually players find out quickly which item is easiest to craft in aspect of XP gained, but it is worthless on the market in perspective of using it while fighting players/NPC or Mobs. How to solve that?
For example I clearly remembered Skyrim when you wanted to level up Blacksmithing fast fot the "juicy" stuff and you chose iron daggers but the item itself was no point fighting with.
Interesting to read what you wise ones have to say in this.
0
Comments
But I also have large concerns about the actual use of freeholds and the fact that it outright requires powergrinding levels as only 10% of all players could own one regardless of their accrued wealth or resources. They should nix the hard cap on them and just let anyone with enough resources buy one, which would reduce the emphasis on pushing max level as fast as possible to get access to something that you essentially have to have in order to progress further in artisan crafts.
I'm aware of how they work. I simply fundamentally disagree that usage of a major crafting system should require the permission of other players to use.
Crafting or processing?
For the crafting professions, you can only craft up to Journeyman level items in freeholds. Higher than that you’ll have to head to the node city.
But, if the underlying issue for you is exclusivity of freeholds, that’s your choice as a player to undertake a freehold or not. That’s not an Intrepid issue.
Just like any other MMO, the players who are able to invest the time and effort will reap the rewards of that investment.
So far I haven't heard him saying anything that eliminates mine.
Simply because there is no "you definitely will have access to one" - Players owning them will control who has access.
Its not a big concern so far though - its not even set in stone how and who can actually be granted access.
Although doubtful, I still hope that we can band together and buy one. In some form of contract system where you pool resources and the non-owning participants are guaranteed access. (And can take over by paying the taxes in case the owner stops playing w/o transfering it or sth).
I think its a big problem to say that it isn't feasible to get one alone but then not to have a system enforcing at least some things probably agreed upon.
Since you can't even put a bounty on peoples head (good in general) there is no real reprecussion against griefing... (as far as I know)
Processing as an artisan path.
Like you said, someone willing to put in the time and effort should reap the rewards. I extend that mentality to Freehold ownership. If a player can support one financially, with their time investment, and manage upkeep, there should be no arbitrary limits preventing them from purchasing a deed to build a Freehold.
So long as there are no arbitrary limits on number, and a dedicated player can reasonably get a deed with sufficient money, resources, and time to put toward its purchase and upkeep, then that's my primary concerns assuaged.
That still doesn't fix the issue of having player owned housing act as a barrier point for an artisan class. Gathering is world-reliant, Crafting is node-reliant, and Processing is player-housing-reliant for no discernible reason.
Processing locations could easily have been a feature of Village+ nodes respective to what their primary local materials are.
If it's the first option - well, you've come to an MMO that encorages/requires co-operation, collaboration and interacting with other players in different ways. It's not a "Massive Solo Player Online Game".
If it's the second option - that's fine, but once again, the same reply applies. Ask yourself "Why do I want it to change?" - is it because you are a casual player (and you are afraid that you might not get access to processing) or a player who prefers to play solo (and doesn't really like to be dependant on actions/decisions of other players)?
This part is important as it explains where your concerns are coming from and helps to understand your perspective better
Guild freeholds may be an option and are scheduled to be implemented in phase 3 of Alpha2 (May 2025). It's unclear what the requirements will be besides a guild hall to be present.
Bottom-line, test these systems during Alpha 2 and provide feedback to Intrepid.
its ok to disagree, doesn't mean you are right
scarcity is a thing in this game. just trade for whatever goods you need if you don't own a freehold.
also, we saw before that you don't need to craft the highest tier sword with the highest tier materials. you can use lesser materials and then eventually upgrade to the best possible sword.
This is 1/3 of the artisan system requiring a permission slip from other players.
Needing BiS gear or not is irrelevant. The issue is that you shouldn't need a permission slip to advance. In no other aspect of the game can you halt another players progress by just saying 'nah'.
There's no reason this one part of artisan crafting is entirely at the mercy of other players.
If it were just more efficient than doing processing at a location in a node, it wouldn't matter so much, as of course a guild will need more than an individual working on personal request from others. But to not have it even be an option to do even small-scale high-level processing independent from player housing is pointless and artisan-unfriendly for no discernible reason.
Yeah, there is a reason … it’s to collaborate with other players in a game with a label in the MMO genre.
Pretty sure we won’t be seeing the full end-to-end freehold activities until Beta, though. So, the jury’s still out on how difficult it will be for the average player (whether it be owning or having permissions).
Hence giving the feedback now that there should be high-end Processing functions available in Nodes themselves, not solely in player housing which no other artisan system does.
Freehold Processing plants should be for increasing efficiency and output quantity.
its not 1/3 of the system. you can do processing in towns. id say its 1/5 of 1/3? since you can do almost all processing in towns except for the highest tier. and ofc this is about BiS. what would it be about if not that? pressing E on a station?
and there are reasons why it works the way it works...
While I agree the tone of their response seems selfish, there are a couple of good points buried in the context.
First, there isn’t any other MMO (that I can think of either) that has a skill line gated by other players. Sure, you’re supposed to cooperate and get along with others in Ashes … but part of a skill line?
Second, there is no other viable alternative to level the skill line fully if you’re not at a freehold.
I’m still siding with Intrepid that they can roll out Processing in a meaningful way that’s inclusive of everyone. Worst case scenario (as you said) is you level up 4/5 of your chosen discipline in Processing … and then focus on your other crafting mastery.
To be revisited later.
but that's the thing. there is a reason why they don't want everybody to master processing. it has to do with the economy. same reason why they don't want everyone to be able to do every profession. it wasn't a random choices. it ties up with other things in the game that us players don't know about since we don't have all the info about the game yet.
at the end of the day, you will still need other players to get the gear you want, no matter which profession you choose and whether you can master it or not.
edit: there are other games who have done something similar. sure you can roll an alt and become a crafter, but leveling one alone is near damn impossible, so you are still somewhat gated to the need of having other players help you to the point you become almost dead weight. it was pretty successful though because you were really needed later on. systems like that encourage group gameplay and planning.
It isn't selfish to see and call an arbitrary restriction for what it is. It's a bizarre turn to have crafting mastery gatekept behind player housing of all things, never existed in any game I've ever played or heard of.
When the current plan for Ashes is to master only one section of the artisan paths, having Processing being entirely unmasterable without permission from other players simply doesn't make sense.
You can fight Gatherers in contested areas to stop them from gathering high-end materials, but they could also kill you.
You can fight Crafters and their guilds away from bosses that drop rate high-end recipes, but they could also kill you.
But with Processing, you can tell someone they can't hang out in your tree house and that's the end of it. They just have to hope the people next door will sign their permission slip instead.
You keep trying to make it about BiS but it isn't. It's solely about knowing that skill line progression should never be gatekept behind being given permission from other players to advance. I'd have the same opinion if it were fishing we were talking about.
It is akin to only letting the top 100 people on the arena leaderboard actually level past 45 - or people they allow.
Scarcity is a good thing in an MMORPG. Top end gear, flying mounts, castles, being mayor, these are all things that benefit from being scarce.
Freeholds though, they are gameplay.
A game that makes it's gameplay systems and content scarce before the game launches seem to me to be a game that is going to be chasing their tail fixing their bad design after the game has launched.
Honestly, it really is bad design.
Can't you do all the things you can do at freeholds in other parts of the world, just with less powerful rewards?
Aside perhaps from "delighting in the pleasure of owning a home," which doesn't suffice for the definition of "gameplay" by my standards. And even this one you can technically emulate at other player residences than freeholds.
(All of which is before we have even considered sharing freeholds with ingame family, and to a lesser extent other allies.)
Castles aren't designed in a way where they are the end of a long progression path. They are essentially like an optional side quest at the end of leveling.
There is also most likely going to be more content - and more varied content - that is locked behind freeholds than castles. The major gameplay aspect of castles is sieges, but sieges of a similar level and style exist outside of castles.
Freeholds though, they offer things that you can do with access to one that you can't do without it.
Also, I haven't seen Intrepid sell any castle skins, they have sold a shitload of freehold skins - long before there was any notion at all of them being scarce.
Is that enough differentiators for you?
That we know of so far, we have plots for raising your own crops and animals. These are things that are not available at all in any other part of the game that we are currently aware of.
Then we have ALL artisan processing past Journeyman - which means freeholds are the only place you can go to perform the last quarter or so of the progression path for alchemy, animal husbandry, cooking, farming, lumber milling, metalworking, stonemasonry, tanning and weaving. This is the aspect of them that is akin to only allowing the top 100 on the arena ladder to progress past 45.
A freehold is the owners own personal PvP free zone.
Then we have the notion of business buildings that are seperate from the node. This includes taverns - so the often talked about notion of running your own tavern is locked behind owning a freehold.
Then, not only are freeholds a block to artisan progression, they even contain their own progression path just for them.
you arent restricted from processing. you just cant do all processing unless you meet certain conditions. that's like saying I cant go into this open world dungeon because I don't have a party, that's bad design since I depend on other players, and that's also gameplay.
This is a skill line, Depraved ... not grouping up for content.
Don't forget the distinction.
That said, we're likely not to see the full loop of freeholds until Beta. The jury's still out in my opinion ... accessibility could be fine after players get in and test.
In all other cases than Processing, it's the exact opposite.
Freeholds, being the only safe zones in the entire game, in all other areas offer less potent rewards than going out in the world and doing content, fighting over things, and engaging with node buildings.
Processing is the ONLY aspect in which this reward structure is inverted, where the safe zone is the only avenue to mastery of an artisan skill line.
I get that but what I mean is partisanship is still part of the game. some parts of the game will require other players to help you to get access to them. so the question is, which parts should be accessed solo and which ones with the help of other players? take into consideration this game is group oriented.
also, some skills in other games require other players to help you activate them. even in ashes, you can promote cc applied by other players. so you can make the same argument here. i cant stun my target because I need a tank that uses a stagger first, boo hoo. so how do you decide when designing the game? i supposed you would need full info about the game first.
Damn it. Now i have no Choice but to give You a Like. Look what you made me do, Dygz !!
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