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Regarding the running animation

ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
edited October 2 in General Discussion
I know we're in alpha and I've opened in the past other posts about it, but I'm concerned that the running and other basic animations feel unnatural in this stage and I see no improvements... For example, the main animation feels like the upper torso is too static, and it doesn't look natural. It would reassure me to know if Steven or any developer has at some point, whether in a devstream, forum, or Discord, confirmed that they haven’t seriously worked on the animations yet, and that they plan to change or improve them.

Yes, in every Stream, Steven says what we see is WIP, but it sounds like a general message. Maybe I haven't seen it, but can anyone confirm if he has specifically spoken about the main animations?

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    Yes, in every Stream, Steven says what we see is WIP, but it sounds like a general message.
    It is a general statement because it applies generally. Nothing is finished.
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  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 2
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    Yes, in every Stream, Steven says what we see is WIP, but it sounds like a general message.
    It is a general statement because it applies generally. Nothing is finished.
    3jm7dz7y25zb.gif

    General doesn't always mean for everything. Anyway:

    Has Steven or any developer has at some point, whether in a devstream, forum, or Discord, confirmed that they haven’t seriously worked on the animations yet, and that they plan to change or improve them.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    General doesn't always mean for everything.
    It does though, when the game is in alpha and is years out from release.

    And no, I don't think they've explicitly stated "WiP" for the running animations. But you can consider your question here as feedback that it looks bad. I'm sure Vaknar will relay that to the devs :)
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    General doesn't always mean for everything.
    It does though, when the game is in alpha and is years out from release.

    And no, I don't think they've explicitly stated "WiP" for the running animations. But you can consider your question here as feedback that it looks bad. I'm sure Vaknar will relay that to the devs :)

    Game's been in Alpha for many years. I've played othe alpha's an in that state, most core animations were implemented.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    I've played othe alpha's an in that state, most core animations were implemented.
    Implemented or polished? Cause we have implemented animations. They work for what Intrepid need.

    But they are obviously not polished.
  • mxomxo Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 3
    Artharion, if you are going to play Alpha 2 (I'm not, because for me personally it's just way too early and I like the finished/polished side of a game so I dont want to waste my low freetime too early on), just emphazise it again and again. This is the best way to address (y)our concerns (and talking about animations it's quite common sense in the entire net, that a lot of work still has do be done). Intrepid knows this (ofc), but still all feedback is allowed to be given, right?
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Ludullu_(NiKr) wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    I've played othe alpha's an in that state, most core animations were implemented.
    Implemented or polished? Cause we have implemented animations. They work for what Intrepid need.

    But they are obviously not polished.

    Implemented. The current animations, especially the running one, look like a generic asset from UE5 or UE4. They don’t differ much from the ones in Alpha-1. Even if a good animation is not polished, you can see the quality of it. Right now, I don't see the highest quality in running animations. To me, they feel odd and unnatural.

    Chaliux wrote: »
    Artharion, if you are going to play Alpha 2 (I'm not, because for me personally it's just way too early and I like the finished/polished side of a game so I dont want to waste my low freetime too early on), just emphazise it again and again. This is the best way to address (y)our concerns (and talking about animations it's quite common sense in the entire net, that a lot of work still has do be done). Intrepid knows this (ofc), but still all feedback is allowed to be given, right?

    I will play it (just 3 weeks from now!!!). But man, I don't know. I think at this point they already know, or they should know, but I never see them bringing up these kinds of questions and concerns in their monthly devstream. All I see during the Q&A part of the show are the same questions they've already answered over and over again. It feels like they're avoiding answering questions about animations, especially the running animations of the characters. Why? I don't know. I will definitely emphasize this topic over and over again, but my guess is that they already know about it. I just want to hear from them that they’ve just started working on it and that they will deliver high-quality work on this.
  • saltedlyftsaltedlyft Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    I know we're in alpha and I've opened in the past other posts about it, but I'm concerned that the running and other basic animations feel unnatural in this stage and I see no improvements... For example, the main animation feels like the upper torso is too static, and it doesn't look natural. It would reassure me to know if Steven or any developer has at some point, whether in a devstream, forum, or Discord, confirmed that they haven’t seriously worked on the animations yet, and that they plan to change or improve them.

    Yes, in every Stream, Steven says what we see is WIP, but it sounds like a general message. Maybe I haven't seen it, but can anyone confirm if he has specifically spoken about the main animations?

    Yeah I agree it is stiff and looks like someone with muscle stiffness lumbering around. That being said like another poster has mentioned just emphatically give feedback to the team during a testing phase.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    saltedlyft wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »
    I know we're in alpha and I've opened in the past other posts about it, but I'm concerned that the running and other basic animations feel unnatural in this stage and I see no improvements... For example, the main animation feels like the upper torso is too static, and it doesn't look natural. It would reassure me to know if Steven or any developer has at some point, whether in a devstream, forum, or Discord, confirmed that they haven’t seriously worked on the animations yet, and that they plan to change or improve them.

    Yes, in every Stream, Steven says what we see is WIP, but it sounds like a general message. Maybe I haven't seen it, but can anyone confirm if he has specifically spoken about the main animations?

    Yeah I agree it is stiff and looks like someone with muscle stiffness lumbering around. That being said like another poster has mentioned just emphatically give feedback to the team during a testing phase.

    Yes but they never talk about this topic in the Q&A section. It's all the same questions that we all know or don't care about them.
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    Typically speaking - art is the second to last thing finalised (sound is last) because you don't want to create art assets for things still undergoing iterative processes.
    The only reason we see so much art at this point in development is because of the 'public development' model where they are showcasing things. Its hurting them in the long run and they are bleeding money when they change something.

    Don't worry about the run animations (or any animations, really) until they are gearing up towards Beta. Those can and will be iterated upon once other mechanics like move speed and other interactions are locked in.
  • mxomxo Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 3
    Artharion wrote: »
    I will play it (just 3 weeks from now!!!). But man, I don't know. I think at this point they already know, or they should know, but I never see them bringing up these kinds of questions and concerns in their monthly devstream. All I see during the Q&A part of the show are the same questions they've already answered over and over again. It feels like they're avoiding answering questions about animations, especially the running animations of the characters. Why? I don't know. I will definitely emphasize this topic over and over again, but my guess is that they already know about it. I just want to hear from them that they’ve just started working on it and that they will deliver high-quality work on this.
    It's just not the most convenient topic for them, that's why they are not reacting to it, obviously.
    There is still time to tune it, but I (personally) share your concerns. If something must be done now, it' those basics. This is nothing which will change at Beta stage or ofc later on, but up from now, because it's too core, too basic. Beta is for final tuning of already finished topics, so fixing of bugs, glitches and so on - but not (re)designing or implementing basic or core things like animations.

  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    I think they know they are working on a mountain of features and stuff to build and the animations are likely at the bottom of that priority list. It’s also work they could farm out when they get to the polish stage for the Betas. So you could be seeing the lack of progress because they just aren’t working that part of the game.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Artharion wrote: »
    Yes but they never talk about this topic in the Q&A section. It's all the same questions that we all know or don't care about them.
    And that's why I said that you can consider this thread as your piece of feedback. And you can ask about this in the next q&a as well.

    Intrepid get, what, over a hundred questions every month? Obviously they can't answer all of them. And this is also why I said that "WiP" is a general statement because it applies to the game generally.

    If Steven had to go and say "this is a work in progress" for each and every element of the game - every monthly stream would just consist of him listing the entire list of features and then saying "they are all work in progress".

    I'm fairly sure everyone agrees that animations look unfinished. This means that Intrepid also know this and will work on it when that's appropriate. I'd imagine it'll be somewhere closer to 6-8 months into Phase 3, where all archetypes/races are implemented and the visual representation of each can be done through specialized animations and stuff.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 3
    ShivaFang wrote: »
    Typically speaking - art is the second to last thing finalised (sound is last) because you don't want to create art assets for things still undergoing iterative processes.
    The only reason we see so much art at this point in development is because of the 'public development' model where they are showcasing things. Its hurting them in the long run and they are bleeding money when they change something.

    Don't worry about the run animations (or any animations, really) until they are gearing up towards Beta. Those can and will be iterated upon once other mechanics like move speed and other interactions are locked in.

    Animations are not art per se; they are integral to the gameplay itself. Developers need to ensure how the character will look when running in order to design the armor, weapons, and gear overall.

    I’ve played several alphas, and in most of them, animations were one of the first things to be implemented.
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 5
    Artharion wrote: »

    Animations are not art per se; they are integral to the gameplay itself. Developers need to ensure how the character will look when running in order to design the armor, weapons, and gear overall.

    I’ve played several alphas, and in most of them, animations were one of the first things to be implemented.

    From a development standpoint, animations are art. They are not tied mechanically to the game at all (and are completely removed from being rendered in a 'headless' environment where no client has to display anything).

    There is nothing mechanical about animations. Animations are something that reacts to gameplay, not something that drive gameplay.

    Animations cannot be finalized until the developers know the state machine of how fast characters move, what transitions need to happen (running to blocking, running to casting, running to stunned, running to dead, to and from running to mounted). All of those transitions have to be in place before you can do a proper final pass on the animations.

    Working on the animations too early is a complete waste of time (and money, as developer time=money) as you'll have to re-do it all if you need something to work different because of other game interactions.

    And, yes, it absolutely can be finalized towards the end of the process. It almost always is for any development company worth their salt. Animations, Art and Music usually get finalized just before Beta launch.

    There is nothing fundamental about animations that requires it to be done early. IT's just a visual representation of the character's movement speed and transition states, which are the fundamental things you are thinking of. The fundamental mechanics do have to be in place early - the actual way they 'look' to the player are not important until product launch.
  • GreatPhilisopherGreatPhilisopher Member, Alpha Two
    i get they got a lot to do and animations "polish" shouldnt be till later but at least make the basic running animation good , they look so goofy or bad
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  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    What the Alpha 2 Road Map didn’t cover was the development goals during Alpha 2. It was focused mostly on features. We know more about their server plans than their animations. So hopefully development in this area is part of the plan. They did something similar during Alpha 1, based on player feedback. It’s just that with so much they have to develop we just don’t know what the priorities are.
  • AreannAreann Member, Alpha Two
    If they were busy fixing everyone's priority thing, they would never get anywhere. As far as we know the Tulnar aren't even in the engine yet so why would they already focus how every character runs.
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    ```
  • SiddiqueSiddique Member
    Yes! No one walks/runs with such a stiff torso, there is a slight bend while running and even walking. In its current state, the animation looks unnatural. I really hope they fix it in the future.

    Right now, it feels when they rigged the skeleton, there was one joint at the tailbone and one at the bottom of the neck. There ought to be multiple.
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 7
    ShivaFang wrote: »
    Artharion wrote: »

    Animations are not art per se; they are integral to the gameplay itself. Developers need to ensure how the character will look when running in order to design the armor, weapons, and gear overall.

    I’ve played several alphas, and in most of them, animations were one of the first things to be implemented.

    From a development standpoint, animations are art. They are not tied mechanically to the game at all (and are completely removed from being rendered in a 'headless' environment where no client has to display anything).

    There is nothing mechanical about animations. Animations are something that reacts to gameplay, not something that drive gameplay.

    Animations cannot be finalized until the developers know the state machine of how fast characters move, what transitions need to happen (running to blocking, running to casting, running to stunned, running to dead, to and from running to mounted). All of those transitions have to be in place before you can do a proper final pass on the animations.

    Working on the animations too early is a complete waste of time (and money, as developer time=money) as you'll have to re-do it all if you need something to work different because of other game interactions.

    And, yes, it absolutely can be finalized towards the end of the process. It almost always is for any development company worth their salt. Animations, Art and Music usually get finalized just before Beta launch.

    There is nothing fundamental about animations that requires it to be done early. IT's just a visual representation of the character's movement speed and transition states, which are the fundamental things you are thinking of. The fundamental mechanics do have to be in place early - the actual way they 'look' to the player are not important until product launch.

    Dude, no offense, but I'm not going to start a discussion about whether animations are art or not. I don’t know why, but whenever there are debates in video game forums, there's always a specific type of user who feels the need to correct and point out every detail of a post, even when that detail isn't the "crux" of the matter, just for the sake of correcting someone. It seems like a matter of ego or a Lisa Simpson complex.

    Anyway, that’s not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of the thread is very clear: the running animation could be greatly improved, and, at least in my case, I haven’t seen any developer admit that they are specifically working on it, beyond the usual "Everything you see here is a work in progress," which sounds more like a generic message. If there is, please post de source (dev stream, forum message, whatever), if there is not, it's ok.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ashes will be upgrading to UE5.4 in A2. It has tools for an animations that are mind blowing.
  • FireplayFireplay Member, Alpha Two
    I agree it would be nice to see more life like animations. They currently do not look fluid.
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  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited October 8
    Animations in AoC are bad, not just for the 3d models but also for special effects
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • PendragxnPendragxn Member
    Agree need better animations as well as SFX for the look of the gameplay and to make it feel better while playing. The combat especially needs to be fluid there are so many games now that can’t do combat properly and it doesn’t feel responsive otherwise unfortunately this game is potentially DOA.
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 8
    Artharion wrote: »
    Dude, no offense, but I'm not going to start a discussion about whether animations are art or not. I don’t know why, but whenever there are debates in video game forums, there's always a specific type of user who feels the need to correct and point out every detail of a post, even when that detail isn't the "crux" of the matter, just for the sake of correcting someone. It seems like a matter of ego or a Lisa Simpson complex.

    Anyway, that’s not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of the thread is very clear: the running animation could be greatly improved, and, at least in my case, I haven’t seen any developer admit that they are specifically working on it, beyond the usual "Everything you see here is a work in progress," which sounds more like a generic message. If there is, please post de source (dev stream, forum message, whatever), if there is not, it's ok.

    Well, you are the one that countered my point that art is the last thing finalized with the idea that animations aren't art

    Art is the very last thing finalized - and it is absolutely relevant to this thread. It's way too early for them to be finalizing something that has too many underlying things that could change. Defiantly worth revisiting in Phase 3 after all the races are in and I'll be right there with you.
  • LughlaochLughlaoch Member, Alpha Two
    Best run animation-No Mans Sky. Copy it.
    It's all about the hips.
  • SnowElfSnowElf Member, Alpha Two
    The fluidity of character movement / animation is a huge concept for me, so I am right there with you. If it feels like my character is pivoted on a stick, it draws away from the immersion for me unfortunately. From what I've seen in the monthly gameplay livestreams, the characters seem to be quite responsive so far to the environment, but I'm sure there is always room for improvement.

    A good example of some character fluidity would be World of Warcraft actually. When a character jumps, you can actually see the character slightly kneel their legs down when their feet touch the ground again, insinuating that there is some type of recoil to touching the ground again, adding to the realism of what it means to interact with the environment, and that's what I really do love to see. Just adding those extra small details really add to the overall enrichment of the gameplay & immersion. Fortunately, Intrepid pays attention to small details so I'm confident it will be tuned if needed.

    Omggg a little over 2 weeks and we're going to be ushered into Verra, MUCH EXCITEEE!! :D
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    Click here to visit Snow elf's Twitch channel
  • ArtharionArtharion Member, Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Animations in AoC are bad, not just for the 3d models but also for special effects

    I would call that effects.
  • Thehector1Thehector1 Member
    fk7aqedw31on.jpg

    It's promising to get an answer to a question I asked on a recent Facebook post.
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