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Node racial style depending on race contribution doesn't make sense

GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
Hi,

while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.
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Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Depends on the server.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Depends on the server.

    How? It's pretty much statistics.

    In wow for example 16% are playing blood elves, while only 3% are playing goblins. In ashes it will be the same. Guess who will contribute more in nearly all cases.
  • BriggsBriggs Member, Alpha Two
    You bring up a good point. I'm interested to see what the Devs do to fix this.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    And if players of that race don't care enough or simply don't want to come together and get their own node - that's how it'll be. But just as there are guilds filled with players of just one race - I'm sure we'll see nodes like that as well. Most likely led by those very guilds.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    And if players of that race don't care enough or simply don't want to come together and get their own node - that's how it'll be. But just as there are guilds filled with players of just one race - I'm sure we'll see nodes like that as well. Most likely led by those very guilds.

    20 years ago yes. Pretty sure that most nodes will be run by streamers or very big guilds
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    20 years ago yes. Pretty sure that most nodes will be run by streamers or very big guilds
    Across all servers? Across every damn 85 nodes on each server? There's not enough big streamers and guilds to do all of that. Nor would any of those big entities stay in the game for long. Especially the streamers.
  • mxomxo Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    Depeding on the influence of racial perks that will increase this risk. Imbalance between races or popularity of races can barely be controlled, but I also guess that there will be solutions in the future that allow switching node styles to fight against domination of a very popular race.

    WoW implemented cross-faction play because of imbalance of races, hard punch lore-wise, necessary solution gameplay-wise. And, WoW started with impactful racial perks and nerfed them completely because min/maxers selected the best race, not the most liked race.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    They pulled the concept of racial perks from the game, so race choice is entirely an aesthetic preference now both for your character and what you'd like to see in a node.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    You are correct, and this is why this is almost exclusively an aesthetic mechanic.

    There are no meaningful benefits to having a node of your own race.
  • This content has been removed.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.

    Why do you think so? Of course it will happen sometimes, but realistically most nodes will have two - three different skins
  • I’ve never been a fan of racial perks in World of Warcraft and the whole min-maxing game based on race. To me, it takes away from the fun of simply playing the race you like or the one that looks the best. I’d rather enjoy the aesthetic and fantasy without feeling like I’m being handicapped for my choice. Gameplay should be about how you play, not what race your character happens to be. Elf supremacy, rise up!
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.

    Why do you think so? Of course it will happen sometimes, but realistically most nodes will have two - three different skins

    so?they are just skins ;3
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.

    Why do you think so? Of course it will happen sometimes, but realistically most nodes will have two - three different skins

    so?they are just skins ;3

    Yes they are, but it's about the system that is not well designed.
  • FlankerFlanker Member, Alpha Two
    edited October 5
    I guess this helps?

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    n8ohfjz3mtqg.png
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    Flanker wrote: »
    I guess this helps?

    70g6xxl78ob6.png

    It's just 440 people...
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    They've already said that there is a diminishing effect if nodes already exist of a certain race - ie a contribution penalty for the other nodes. Less played races might build a node if they work togehter.

    Remember - the world is in ruins. It's built up by players returning to Verra through the portals. A small minority of Nikua won't have that much cultural impact on the world unless they all work together in one place.
  • GarrtokGarrtok Member, Alpha Two
    ShivaFang wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    They've already said that there is a diminishing effect if nodes already exist of a certain race - ie a contribution penalty for the other nodes. Less played races might build a node if they work togehter.

    Remember - the world is in ruins. It's built up by players returning to Verra through the portals. A small minority of Nikua won't have that much cultural impact on the world unless they all work together in one place.

    Players of a race playing together to build a node in their style is very far from the reality of the game
  • ShivaFangShivaFang Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Players of a race playing together to build a node in their style is very far from the reality of the game

    Right, so given that how would a node even form for a culture if the race isn't working together to establish it?

    This isn't wow where the races already have established homes. There are ruins of ancient civilization, but it's still the people coming back through the portals that are building it. There is nothing lorewise OR mechanics wise that can justify forcing particular nodes to be a minority race.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    just leave the aesthetic choice to the node owners.
  • DepravedDepraved Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.

    Why do you think so? Of course it will happen sometimes, but realistically most nodes will have two - three different skins

    so?they are just skins ;3

    Yes they are, but it's about the system that is not well designed.

    why is not well designed? how did you come up with that? just because someone cant get something right away makes it a bad design?
  • LodrigLodrig Member
    edited October 5
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    The players will need to concentrate to make the different styles apear. As both the race apearance and the node apearance are asthetic rather then functional this is a group aschetic choice that you engage in by voting with your time.

    If players prefer certain astetics over other they will preferentially live in the nodes that match vs thouse that don't match. The only issue I see is if players have a mismatch between their character racial astetics they like and the building asthetics they like.

    The logical fix to that is to give players a selector which determines what building astetic their XP generation contributes to a node. Aka you could be a Vek but want to live in a Py Rai node and thus set your selector to Py Rai so your xp gets counted towards that asthetic. By default the selector is obviusly matched to your race but you can change it.

    This would be far better then giving the choice to the mayor because it augments the existing design with more player choice and remains a bottom up vote with time. Also Nodes have an astetic BEFORE they have mayors as a mayor comes in only at tier 3 and their needs to be a system to determine what nodes level 1 and 2 look like.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Your choice of style is made in character select. If node style > character style to you, then you'll have to pick the race with the node style you want.

    Personally I'm hugely against the removal of the racial perks. It just makes the world building lesser for it when entirely different species are treated exactly the same and ultimately it means you'll see more lopsided aesthetics than if racials perks did exist to influence selection a bit.
  • P0GG0P0GG0 Member, Alpha Two
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Your choice of style is made in character select. If node style > character style to you, then you'll have to pick the race with the node style you want.

    Personally I'm hugely against the removal of the racial perks. It just makes the world building lesser for it when entirely different species are treated exactly the same and ultimately it means you'll see more lopsided aesthetics than if racials perks did exist to influence selection a bit.

    that make sense, but throw economy related perks. combat ones are always to much of a head ake.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    P0GG0 wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Your choice of style is made in character select. If node style > character style to you, then you'll have to pick the race with the node style you want.

    Personally I'm hugely against the removal of the racial perks. It just makes the world building lesser for it when entirely different species are treated exactly the same and ultimately it means you'll see more lopsided aesthetics than if racials perks did exist to influence selection a bit.

    that make sense, but throw economy related perks. combat ones are always to much of a head ake.

    Combat ones are fine, good even, as long as they're done similar to D&D, so no % increases to stats or damage. Flat values don't make issues for the end-game.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    I am most aware we are still Y~EEAARS away from it, but ... ... ...



    ... ... can i please have my darn Kae'lar Node ? ^.^ -> " INSIDE " one of the Two cold/est Biomes ?

    Either being a Fishing Village on the Coast ? Or a well-fortified Node in the snowy Forests or one some Mountain ?

    You know ? Something that RESEMBLES the Viking/Nord/Skellige Dream - for a bit. ;)


    It won't ever come to pass if People like me who wish for the same don't come together in great Numbers on probably/(hopefully?) the same Server and all Quest with our KAE'LAR Characters in a specific Node Area so we without fail contribute the most to the Node in Question which we want to make into our cool, northern, Viking-like Node. :mrgreen:



    Yes.

    I am indeed that selfish.

    If the whole World needs to burn for it, then so be it ! (lol)
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    ✓ Guild is " Balderag's Garde " for now. (German)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 6
    Garrtok wrote: »

    How? It's pretty much statistics.

    In wow for example 16% are playing blood elves, while only 3% are playing goblins. In ashes it will be the same. Guess who will contribute more in nearly all cases.
    That's 3% across all servers.
    There could still be a server that is mostly Goblins.
    And, in Ashes, there could be a Realm with a Metro led by the Race that has the lowest percentage across all Realms but has the highest percentage in that Metro.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited October 6
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Depraved wrote: »
    Garrtok wrote: »
    Hi,

    while in theory it sounds great and logical, that a node gets the style of the most contributing race, its actually not a well thought of system.

    In every mmo you have races, that are played much more than others, so a niche race will maybe never or very unlikely see a node in their style.

    I guess there should be an alternative system. Maybe the mayor's race or swappable and you need a blue print that is only craftable by the race itself.

    yeah but also not everybody will be on the same node. less played races might get their node.

    Why do you think so? Of course it will happen sometimes, but realistically most nodes will have two - three different skins

    so?they are just skins ;3

    Yes they are, but it's about the system that is not well designed.

    I kind of disagree.

    The original system had a small amount of benefit to the appropriate races. That made it a badly designed system.

    The fix to that was to remove the benefit and make it an aesthetic only thing.

    The difference here should be obvious. We are all generally against microtransactions, but make them aesthetic only and its generally fine. The same is true here - being aesthetic only makes the whole thing generally fine.
  • LodrigLodrig Member
    edited October 6
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Your choice of style is made in character select. If node style > character style to you, then you'll have to pick the race with the node style you want.

    Personally I'm hugely against the removal of the racial perks. It just makes the world building lesser for it when entirely different species are treated exactly the same and ultimately it means you'll see more lopsided aesthetics than if racials perks did exist to influence selection a bit.

    I also would like to see racial perks retained, utility abiliites I think are good. Nikua holding their breath underwater longer is flavorful but not unbalanced. Some gathering perks and other misilanious stuff has possibility. Perks can and should be used to try to bring more players to the less popular races which means adjusting them over time based on popularity.
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