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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Our opinions may differ in a lot of areas. But, I would like to attempt to clarify some points, from my perspective.
Even though I have no proof of Intrepid’s ultimate designs for gameplay, it is my fervent hope that they’ll be able to institute a system that drastically reduces the instances of mindless PK’ing, which I believe, is the main crux of this thread, as opposed to PvP, in general. Of course, I could be mistaken.
As, Dygz stated earlier, he/she (sorry. i don’t know who you are irl, apologies) would have no problem if PvP was centered around an objective, such as a quest to attack/defend a city, or it’s immediate environs. And, there may be such tasks given by npc’s, though I believe most of that sort of “meaningful PvP” would be player/community driven, as opposed to some scheduled task. Either, or, that kind of interaction is what seems to help drive the core of the game, along with all the PvE aspects. Hand in hand.
I think most here agree that mindless PK’ing, with no intent behind it, other than to grief, is abhorrent. Even bandits, and pirates, have a motive. To fill their coffers/larders. But, “murderers” (and I use that term lightly, as though distasteful as mindless PK’ing is, it’s still just a game), should be dealt with in a stern, heavy handed way, to discourage such behavior.
Will this totally eliminate risk when adventuring? No. But, I don’t think it’d be to such a degree that just being out in the open is a death sentence. That kind of environment is toxic, and could raise serious issues. I have faith that as the game progresses, these things will be addressed. That’s what testing is for, after all. [/quote]
Excellent reflecting back what I've said so far! Thanks!
I think my example of attacking a rival Divine Metropolis will fall under narrative rather than task.
We have 6 religions, I believe. And I hope those deities have direct influence and impact on how conflict and co-operation rise and fall among their zones of influence. More node driven than NPC driven, but similar to the way mobs will respond to our activities within the region.
I doubt I will be as responsive to the whims of player leaders as I will to support the health of the node. Even in real life, I refuse to fight in a war that's not taking place on my home soil. But if there is an invasion on my home soil, hell yeah, I will defend that.
The node/god sending me to destroy a shrine, else we lose the blessings protecting our walls - I will go destroy the shrine.
Player leaders telling me to destroy the shrine... I'm probably going to ignore that.
For me, PvP combat is enjoyable when it's an unfortunate byproduct of a primary objective.
But, I'm more of a PvP combat-sometimes guy rather than at either extreme.
Part of the problem with using the phrase "mindless PKing" is that many people who engage in what PvP combat haters consider to be despicable behavior is considered by the PKer to be meaningful roleplaying: "I am playing an evil villain. I am playing my role." "This is a race war server so it's my role to kill everyone I encounter who belongs to a rival faction."
Even those who say, "You shouldn't play in a space where PvP is possible if you don't want to PvP" believe their perspective is justified, and probably meaningful for their own objectives.
What the devs mean by meaningful PvP is that hopefull for most AoC players, we will feel that our character v character battles will be more motivated by and have more impact on the narrative. Both indirect PvP conflict and direct PvP combat will push the narrative, the region and the world to evolve - and it's that narrative and world evolution that provides the meaning.
It's not just a static, eternal race war. Rather, the outcome of the war could raze cities and forge new alliances.
Thereby providing us with a dynamic story.
Possibly my greatest concern is with the monster tokens.
I've always said that once the AI for mobs is such that we can't tell the difference between players and NPCs, I'll quit playing MMORPGs.
We'll see.
Well written. I hope that no one takes offense at my posting. I enjoy debating and discussing things about MMO’s but sometimes I am too curt or abrupt and not explanatory. Actually I feel like most of us are much more agreed about things than we realize.
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Great posts. Great discussion. And I agree that we mostly agree.
A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equiped items based on their current Corruption Score.
A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equiped items based on their current Corruption Score.
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Thanks Dygz.
A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equiped items based on their current Corruption Score.
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Interesting read, thank you! Most of my knowledge comes from these forums, or the podcasts, that I've seen. I believe there was a link posted somewhere, that gave a detailed description on what the devs have planned, mechanics wise. Will have to find it, and give it a read.
Now, regarding these PvP rules, if they stay unchanged, I would have no problem with the durability loss, or droppage of raw materials. Nor, would I have a problem with xp debt, given that it's not too punitive. From what I glean here, it seems that combatant penalties are less punitive, than non combatant. I'm guessing that's Intrepid's way of incentivizing players to attack/defed themselves. Defenders avoid the non combatant penalties, and attackers avoid gaining corruption. Because, I believe that killing a non combatant, regardless of level, invites corruption. That would work, amongst players around the same level. The problem would be higher lvled players.
Granted, it may seem "forced" to some, but that goes back to what the devs may have in mind to spur "meaningful PvP". But, we'll see how that turns out.
Honestly, nothing alarming, and I'll see how it works, and how they fine tune it.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/free-pvp/page/6/#post-16748" rel="nofollow">Dygz wrote:</a></div>
<div class=""><a href="https://errantpenman.com/2017/01/11/interview-ashes-of-creation-wants-to-bring-the-virtual-world-to-life/" rel="nofollow">Interview: Ashes of Creation Wants to Bring the Virtual World to Life</a></div>
A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equiped items based on their current Corruption Score.
</blockquote>
Interesting read, thank you! Most of my knowledge comes from these forums, or the podcasts, that I’ve seen. I believe there was a link posted somewhere, that gave a detailed description on what the devs have planned, mechanics wise. Will have to find it, and give it a read.
Now, regarding these PvP rules, if they stay unchanged, I would have no problem with the durability loss, or droppage of raw materials. Nor, would I have a problem with xp debt, given that it’s not too punitive. From what I glean here, it seems that combatant penalties are less punitive, than non combatant. I’m guessing that’s Intrepid’s way of incentivizing players to attack/defed themselves. Defenders avoid the non combatant penalties, and attackers avoid gaining corruption. Because, I believe that killing a non combatant, regardless of level, invites corruption. That would work, amongst players around the same level. The problem would be higher lvled players.
Granted, it may seem “forced” to some, but that goes back to what the devs may have in mind to spur “meaningful PvP”. But, we’ll see how that turns out.
Honestly, nothing alarming, and I’ll see how it works, and how they fine tune it.
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Yea they want meaning full PVP. As long as they make Ganking a massive penalty I think most of the complains that people have will be reduced other than the people that want no PVP all together. I think they will strike the right balance.
But because some asshat wants some fun, I either have to not fight and accept full/normal xp debt when I'm killed or engage in PvP combat -which I hate- so that I only suffer half normal xp debt.
That is a win/win for PvP combat lovers - especially PKers.
And it's pretty messed up for people who don't enjoy PvP combat.
There is no lesser of two evils, just different shades of despicable on the same level of asshattery.
Especially because I'll remained flagged as a combatant for some period of time. And the new band of PvPers will think I'm fair game for PvP because I'm flagged -basically against my will- as a combatant.
Play session is ruined in either case. Even if I win the first battle.
But because some asshat wants some fun, I either have to not fight and accept full/normal xp debt when I’m killed or engage in PvP combat -which I hate- so that I only suffer half normal xp debt.
That is a win/win for PvP combat lovers – especially PKers.
And it’s pretty messed up for people who don’t enjoy PvP combat.
There is no lesser of two evils, just different shades of despicable on the same level of asshattery.
Play session is ruined in either case.
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I can honestly say, I feel you. Granted, I'm not going to assume that everyone who attacks me, while I'm gathering resources or whatever, is an "ass hat". Small scale skirmishes over resources, seems to be one of the many potential points of conflict, within the intended game design. But, it's true that ass hattery could happen. No lie.
The only thing I can say to that is, it seems that the way the goal the devs are shooting for, for AoC, may not line up with a "totally-hands-off-free-from-PvP approach", if that makes sense. Even with penalties for unbalanced PK'ing, in some form or fashion, the threat of open world PvP, or character vs character, is real, and all dependent on the players inhabiting that server, in that ZOI, in that node.
The devs seem to what to give the players a choice on whether to set up a peaceful existence, or a aggressive one. With penalties for flagrant abuse, of course.