Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Hold yourselves accountable and deliver what was promised
Faimith
Member, Alpha Two
We still believe in the vision of Ashes of Creation. That’s why many of us have been loyal backers for years, eagerly awaiting the game that promises to reshape the MMORPG landscape. However, with the recent NDA lift for Alpha 2, it’s hard to ignore the widening gap between what we’ve been told and what we’re seeing.
Steven and Intrepid, this isn’t just about missing features or bugs—those are expected in development. It’s about the lack of transparency and consistency in what’s being delivered compared to what was promised. We supported this project because we believed in your vision, but lately, it feels like we’re being misled with overpromises and underwhelming results.
This post isn’t about attacking the development process. It’s about asking you to focus on honesty, clear communication, and delivering on your commitments. We know the game can live up to its potential, but only if you stop overselling and start being more realistic with your updates.
1. Character Creation:
Promised:
AoC promised a highly detailed character creation system with various races, unique traits, and deep cosmetic customization options. It was often marketed as one of the most detailed MMORPG character creation systems to date.
See here, and here.
Reality:
The actual implementation in Alpha 2 seems to fall short. The character creation feels limited, with fewer options than expected. While the visual fidelity is impressive, many testers have reported a lack of racial uniqueness and limited cosmetic customization. This has left some players underwhelmed given the previous promises of depth and variety.
2. Quest Design and Node System:
Promised:
One of the major selling points of AoC was the node-driven quest system. Nodes were supposed to evolve based on player actions, unlocking new quest lines and branching storylines, making every server feel unique.
See here.
Reality:
Unfortunately, many players feel that the node system hasn’t lived up to its potential. While nodes do exist and maybe level up, the dynamic questing system feels underdeveloped. Quests seem repetitive, with little variation across different nodes. Testers have pointed out that node progression doesn’t significantly alter the types of quests available, leaving them feeling like standard MMO fetch or kill quests.
3. Classes and Combat:
Promised:
The class system was intended to be revolutionary, offering 64 combinations through the archetype system, with meaningful augmentations that would make class choice impactful and diverse.
Reality:
Testers have found the class system currently lacking in depth. The lack of variety and depth in combat makes it feel sluggish and in need of refinement. Combat is often compared unfavorably to older MMOs, lacking the fluidity and innovation that was promised. We’re not seeing the combat system evolve into the dynamic experience it was supposed to be, even without the augment system in place.
4. Events and PvE Content:
Promised:
AoC’s world events were touted as dynamic, changing the environment based on player actions and creating a living world. These events were supposed to be deeply tied to the node system, providing immersive, server-wide experiences.
Reality:
While events are present, they feel more static than expected. Testers have mentioned that world events do not seem to have the level of integration with the node system that was promised. Many events feel scripted and don’t adapt based on player interactions, which detracts from the immersive, evolving world concept.
6. Grinding and Leveling Experience:
Promised:
AoC was marketed as a game where player progression wouldn’t be overly reliant on grinding. The goal was to encourage exploration, meaningful questing, and community-driven activities like building nodes. Leveling was supposed to feel rewarding without excessive time spent on repetitive tasks.
That did not age well.
Reality
Grinding in MMORPGs is expected, but the current design leans heavily on it, and it doesn’t yet integrate well with the world-building and exploration systems that were advertised. This leaves many of us feeling like the game is more of a traditional grind fest than the innovative MMORPG we were sold on.
7. Biomes and Environmental Diversity:
Promised:
Ashes of Creation initially promised a world covering 220 square kilometers in Alpha 2, with multiple biomes to explore. This included various distinct environments, each contributing to the immersion and variety of the game’s world.
Reality:
For Phase 1 of Alpha 2, only the Riverlands biome is available, with the Sandsquall Desert and Vandagar Tropics expected in later phases. However, many players have expressed disappointment, noting that even the available biomes feel far from complete. Regular updates and additions are being made to these areas, giving the impression that they were not as fleshed out as the early showcases suggested. This has led some players to question whether the game has truly been in development for the length of time claimed, as it feels more like a project in its early stages.
Steven and Intrepid, this isn’t just about missing features or bugs—those are expected in development. It’s about the lack of transparency and consistency in what’s being delivered compared to what was promised. We supported this project because we believed in your vision, but lately, it feels like we’re being misled with overpromises and underwhelming results.
This post isn’t about attacking the development process. It’s about asking you to focus on honesty, clear communication, and delivering on your commitments. We know the game can live up to its potential, but only if you stop overselling and start being more realistic with your updates.
1. Character Creation:
Promised:
AoC promised a highly detailed character creation system with various races, unique traits, and deep cosmetic customization options. It was often marketed as one of the most detailed MMORPG character creation systems to date.
See here, and here.
Reality:
The actual implementation in Alpha 2 seems to fall short. The character creation feels limited, with fewer options than expected. While the visual fidelity is impressive, many testers have reported a lack of racial uniqueness and limited cosmetic customization. This has left some players underwhelmed given the previous promises of depth and variety.
2. Quest Design and Node System:
Promised:
One of the major selling points of AoC was the node-driven quest system. Nodes were supposed to evolve based on player actions, unlocking new quest lines and branching storylines, making every server feel unique.
See here.
Reality:
Unfortunately, many players feel that the node system hasn’t lived up to its potential. While nodes do exist and maybe level up, the dynamic questing system feels underdeveloped. Quests seem repetitive, with little variation across different nodes. Testers have pointed out that node progression doesn’t significantly alter the types of quests available, leaving them feeling like standard MMO fetch or kill quests.
3. Classes and Combat:
Promised:
The class system was intended to be revolutionary, offering 64 combinations through the archetype system, with meaningful augmentations that would make class choice impactful and diverse.
Reality:
Testers have found the class system currently lacking in depth. The lack of variety and depth in combat makes it feel sluggish and in need of refinement. Combat is often compared unfavorably to older MMOs, lacking the fluidity and innovation that was promised. We’re not seeing the combat system evolve into the dynamic experience it was supposed to be, even without the augment system in place.
4. Events and PvE Content:
Promised:
AoC’s world events were touted as dynamic, changing the environment based on player actions and creating a living world. These events were supposed to be deeply tied to the node system, providing immersive, server-wide experiences.
Reality:
While events are present, they feel more static than expected. Testers have mentioned that world events do not seem to have the level of integration with the node system that was promised. Many events feel scripted and don’t adapt based on player interactions, which detracts from the immersive, evolving world concept.
6. Grinding and Leveling Experience:
Promised:
AoC was marketed as a game where player progression wouldn’t be overly reliant on grinding. The goal was to encourage exploration, meaningful questing, and community-driven activities like building nodes. Leveling was supposed to feel rewarding without excessive time spent on repetitive tasks.
That did not age well.
Reality
Grinding in MMORPGs is expected, but the current design leans heavily on it, and it doesn’t yet integrate well with the world-building and exploration systems that were advertised. This leaves many of us feeling like the game is more of a traditional grind fest than the innovative MMORPG we were sold on.
7. Biomes and Environmental Diversity:
Promised:
Ashes of Creation initially promised a world covering 220 square kilometers in Alpha 2, with multiple biomes to explore. This included various distinct environments, each contributing to the immersion and variety of the game’s world.
Reality:
For Phase 1 of Alpha 2, only the Riverlands biome is available, with the Sandsquall Desert and Vandagar Tropics expected in later phases. However, many players have expressed disappointment, noting that even the available biomes feel far from complete. Regular updates and additions are being made to these areas, giving the impression that they were not as fleshed out as the early showcases suggested. This has led some players to question whether the game has truly been in development for the length of time claimed, as it feels more like a project in its early stages.
7
Comments
As for changes in design - yeah, designs change, nothing new there either.
And from what I've heard so far, the updates come out fairly quickly, so those vertical slices might've been connected to the devs creating the tools needed to create the full content later on (that time being now), so the real showcase of what Ashes is will be right around Phase 3 and in the first few months after it.
So, for anyone who hasn't bought A2 keys - wait till late summer 25 until checking on the game again, cause you'll 100% burn out from all the streams/videos/etc about how the game is not done, is years from being done and it's a scam and all that.
Yes, it's shitty that Steven wasn't an established gamedev before this. It's shitty that he didn't just buy a preestablished studio and said "make me this". It's shitty that it took them more than 4 years to get a somewhat full team of devs that had to then switch the game to a newer version of the engine.
We all wish all of those shitty things hadn't happened. The only thing we can do right now is just test and give feedback. If the game still ends up as shit - oh well, that'd be a great shame. If the game turns out great - awesome, we helped it get there and we get an amazing mmo after that.
I'm more concerned that the specific combination of things that are 'working' are going to make this look like even more of a pipe-dream than even some of the game's critics made it out to be.
Oh well. Keep pushing, team. I hope you get some rest at some point. Things don't look fun for y'all right now.
I do not want them completely burning out right now purely because Steven decided to have a super open development.
Well, as someone who has been there for the last month-ish...
My opinion is, that's exactly what is happening...
And that things are pretty bad.
But they are good at making it look like things aren't quite so bad, they just have a relatively short time remaining in which to do it. I absolutely fear burnout, given what I've seen.
I think I can summarize it by saying that it is bad enough in my view, that I am not comfortable giving details, since I prefer to get to keep posting here.
However, I am, as you know, very picky. Note that I'm also not going to risk giving any analysis of sentiment of other testers, because that doesn't necessarily (in my mind at least) count as released from NDA. So no one should take my opinion to refer to anything I've seen in testing forums/Discord in any way.
My primary concern now is the team's morale/burnout, given the builds we've had.
I dont understand this point. From everything I know there are no augments in at this time as you dont have a secondary archetype. If you are referring to talent choice variety then say that.
True, sorry my fault.
If this is criticism: Is the criticism that Intrepid made general promises (so basically for launch of the full game) that they are not able to deliver on at the stage of Alpha 2? Or are these things that Intrepid has promised on delivering on during the Alpha 2?
Assuming it is the latter - is the criticism that these promises aren't all kept with the start of the Alpha 2, or are these features already known to not be part of Alpha 2?
Because to me it seems (meaning entirely in my opinion) pretty clear that the only real issue that Intrepid is not the quality, but the time of delivery - and they suck when it comes to timing. Everything takes longer than anticipated, at this point I'm not even sure whether we can really move forward to A2 Phase 2 by December, I wouldn't be surprised if the phase shifts get pushed back. But so far I don't feel like anything major has been cut from the list of promised features (then again, I'm only here since Dec 2022 and only remember hearing about the crossbow drama).
Please stop defending stuff. The communication was very very bad about it. If you want to put it in a worse way: it was marketing just to get some hype.
No one expected phased and no one expected the alpha to start with so less.
So what? You’re missing some features? Delays happen all the time
It’s better then releasing unfinished/broken content which is a recipe for a fail
New WoW expacs been amazing, so happy to keep playing that til they get their finer details polished, you should try keeping busy with other games or hobbies
If you think these are delays or broken promises. You wouldn’t last in the building industry mate 😂
Yes, they did. That's the only thing I find that I'm not okay with. I can deal with little to no content, and then suddenly dividing Alpha 2 into phases and the monetization practices.
But when it comes to that, I feel like they literally deceived us.
nvm might have misinterpreted you.
I also don't want to see this becoming yet another fantasy setting that compromises traditional aesthetics in favour of flooding the game with modern day hairstyles and attire. I rapidly lost interest in FFXIV when it shifted from a fantasy setting with some sci-fi elements to suddenly being flooded with modern day style cosmetics.
I don't expect things to get that bad here, granted, though there's other obstacles to navigate such as performative tokenism. It is my sincere hope - especially as a gay man - that the game won't opt to remove 'male' and 'female' terminology on the character creator in favour of the creepy and overly clinical 'Body Type A' and 'Body Type B' - or the equivalent.
I simply want a traditional medieval style fantasy RPG that takes itself seriously and isn't compromised to appease modern day sensibilities. I'm crossing my fingers that Ashes of Creation, Pantheon or both are a return to form on that front.
You didn't listened.
Ashes of CReation feels like it is an Alpha rather than a Release.
Yes and is better than watching streams and guessing what to post in those pinned threads.
Of course you were right and that is pure PvP and his answer is what we were saying in threads too, because there is no better one. And if he puts the most valuable loot into such full PvP zones then the shift toward PvP is even higher.
I'll still keep trying to convince you to play the game.
Shocking.
Haven’t been here long, but seen many long winded diatribes about some of the most nonsensical stuff. It’s an alpha, and people are asking for….everything? Seems a weird dichotomy of people wanting to live a second life via an mmo, and people who just like to play pvp games with other people. I’ve seen so many posts asking for flavor content, and I’m just befuddled. I’m like….its a pvx mmo that’s in alpha…. Maybe it’s a reflection of the space as a whole these days, and not this particular game, but it’s disheartening to say the least.
In other words, people hear "we're working on this right now" and immediately think "OMG THIS WILL 10000% BE RIGHT ON RELEASE OF ALPHA AND IN PERFECT CONDITION". And that's an asinine thing to think. A system can be working when there's only 3 people on the server, but then absolutely shit the bed when there's a 100 players. So then this system has to be downsized to a point where it can still work for testing, but it won't have all the bells and whistles that were shown off during the showcase.
You can go through my post history and see how I "defend stuff". I've been critical about systems, about design directions, about shifts in design directions, about presentation of information and general communication (had a whole damn negative thread about the last year's charity giveaway).
What I'm not too negative about is realistic development. Which this is. And My last 2 paragraphs literally addressed all the negative shit that led us to where we are. I just don't see a point in telling Intrepid "ohhh, you better hold yourself accountable for all of this", as if they don't fucking know all of this already or as if Steven wanted to things end up like this.
Telling Intrepid that they fucked up does nothing. Telling them how to make things better will do quite a lot. I'm planning on doing the latter once A2 releases.
It’s been a bit of a mess so far but fingers crossed we’ll get there and have a good game at the end. I’d rather them not rush things than end up with another New World scenario.
Yeah... I wish that was not right at the end of our time. I would have gone into more detail about how he wasn't originally clear about how much PvP would be in the game.
It's especially funny to me because the very first question I asked Steven the very first time he was on The Ashen Forge is to compare Ashes PvP to PvP in EvE and ArcheAge and he replies that Ashes is different because there is no permanent zone with FFA PvP - everywhere in the game has the Corruption mechanic.
And now the last thing Steven discusses on The Ashen is his defense of them always being clear about their intent by claiming that The Open Seas fits their original vision. Which I guess, might have been clear to him that that's what he wanted, but doesn't conform with the original answer he gave us in 2018.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing though I actually like PvP and prefer there to be specific zones for it, such as the ocean or lawless zones. This is pretty much the same as the black zone in Albion Online or conflict zone in T&L just on a larger more permanent scale.
I think the contradiction is more in the change in the wind and realising there’s better ways to make a PvX game. Honestly I don’t even like the whole corruption system it’s boring, but I’m just glad there’s safe zones protected by it for the people not interested in PvP. However the more PvP zones the better I’ll be disappointed if we don’t also have land masses and it’s just the open sea as that will get boring fast.
And in 2018 I asked him a specific question to guage whether or not it's a game I will play. I have no interest in playing Albion or T&L or ArcheAge or EvE. I don't know enough about Albion or T&L to ask for a PvP comparison. But, I did know enough about ArcheAge and EvE to know that if the PvP is similar to those games, I will not be interested in playing Ashes.
Steven's answer then, in 2018, was that Ashes PvP is different because Corruption is in play across the entire map. Which was enough of a compromise for me to be interested in playing - pending testing Corruption.
I think the contradiction is due to Jeffrey Bard leaving after 2020... and Steven accepting that Ashes is going to take many more years to complete development...
While Steven was acting as Lead Game designer and had time to add in more PvP... he added more PvP. He also began to obsess more over Risk v Reward.
Which is a good thing for PvP fans. I agree it's not a bad thing.
It just means that he was not always clear about what kind of game Ashes is.
He also was not always clear about what PvX means to him.
His concept of PvX also did not become clear until after the announcement about the Open Seas in 2022.