Change the artsyle before it's too late!

Kassian

I would say the art style is fine for what the game is right now, an alpha. But I do agree it does have a somewhat generic feel at the moment.

I can wait for them to add their own style onto the game so when you log in, you are like "Yes, this is Ashes"

Kalnazzar

Iridianny wrote: »

I’ve been following Ashes of Creation for years, and as someone who’s played MMOs my whole life, I’m really excited about the mechanics and systems they’ve promised. But… it’s ugly. When I first saw the concept art and heard Steven’s promise that the game would look nearly identical to it, I was excited. The early artwork was full of life, creativity, and potential. Too bad he lied about that. People aren’t going to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a game that looks this uninspired. At least, not enough people to make the game last in the long run.
The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.
Ashes of Creation already feels outdated with its attempt at ‘realistic’ art. It’s not even good realism. It looks like a collection of generic fantasy assets. With several more years of development ahead, it’s only going to look worse by release if it stays on this path. Realism always ages quickly, leaving games looking unimmersive and boring. Shifting to a stylized art style now would give Ashes the personality and charm it needs to stay relevant for years. If they don’t pivot soon, the game risks getting lost in the sea of other fantasy games, struggling to attract and maintain the loyal audience that MMOs need to thrive.

Honestly, every game you mentioned just doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve never been into the cartoonish style of games like Fortnite, Minecraft, or even early WoW—which, in my opinion, felt aimed at a younger audience. At least WoW has made some efforts to mature its style over time. I like AoC Art Style.

Jayma

I think it's already too late to make a 180 on art style. Yes the game as probably still some years in oven, but probably not enough to redo all assets.
Improving model, animation or visual effect should be possible.

daveywavey

Kalnazzar wrote: »

Honestly, every game you mentioned just doesn’t appeal to me. I’ve never been into the cartoonish style of games like Fortnite, Minecraft, or even early WoW—which, in my opinion, felt aimed at a younger audience. At least WoW has made some efforts to mature its style over time. I like AoC Art Style.

Yeah, it was the cartoony graphics that put me off WoW. I'm sure it was a good game, but it just didn't interest me at all.

Noaani

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population of those games you listed - none of them would do well in Ashes. Either they will come for the art style and leave because the game isn't for them, or they will come for the art style and Intrepid will change the game to better suit them.

Neither is a good result.

Iridianny

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population you are referring to is the majority of the mmo genre player base. Do they want that audience? They better if they want their mmo to be long lasting and make money.

Iridianny

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

The population of those games you listed - none of them would do well in Ashes. Either they will come for the art style and leave because the game isn't for them, or they will come for the art style and Intrepid will change the game to better suit them.

Neither is a good result.

Also, this is based on no evidence. Where is the data that liking a particular art style is linked to any preference of gameplay mechanics in an mmo?
More people will be attracted to a original, unique, stylized art style and maybe more people will come to play because of it, but that is absolutely a good result. I can guarantee Intrepid wants a large player base and lots of people to come play the game, even if they don't end up staying.
This idea that they will change the game for those people is a strange assumption... and kinda has gatekeeping vibes. This could happen regardless of the art style and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ace1234

There are other ways to identify a game other than the artstyle.

Plus, even with a "generic" or "realistic" look, if it is high enough of quality then it can still stand out. Just look at the original ranger showcase and the seasons showcase, those are some of the best looking graphics i've ever seen in a game and I would be able to tell right away it is Ashes by watching those. If the rest of the game looks that good when it finished I don't think the artstyle will be an issue.

Noaani

Iridianny wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population you are referring to is the majority of the mmo genre player base. Do they want that audience? They better if they want their mmo to be long lasting and make money.

Steven has indeed said that the average WoW player is unlikely to enjoy Ashes.

More people will be attracted to a original, unique, stylized art style and maybe more people will come to play because of it, but that is absolutely a good result.

No, it really isn't.

If the game attracts a large number of people that came for the art, but then left because the game itself isn't what they want to play, that just means servers die faster. In an MMORPG, this often ends up in a death spiral of population - I also can't imagine it being overly good publicity for Intrepid to look at server mergers within 3 months of launch.

The players that the game attracts need to be the kind of players that are there for the game systems, not that are there for the art style.

This idea that they will change the game for those people is a strange assumption... and kinda has gatekeeping vibes. This could happen regardless of the art style and there is nothing you can do about it.

There is nothing at all gatekeeping about this. I am in no place to stop you discussing what you think - and if I am in no place to stop you, then gatekeeping is literally not a term that can be applied to anything I do.

However, claiming others are gatekeeping when they are clearly no is a form of gatekeeping by proxy. You said it because you mistakenly thought that you claiming gatekeeping may stop me commenting as I see fit - which would be using social norms as a means of gatekeeping.

Claims of gatekeeping where there is actually none are just a joke.

Laetitian

There is nothing at all gatekeeping about this. I am in no place to stop you discussing what you think - and if I am in no place to stop you, then gatekeeping is literally not a term that can be applied to anything I do.

However, claiming others are gatekeeping when they are clearly no is a form of gatekeeping by proxy. You said it because you mistakenly thought that you claiming gatekeeping may stop me commenting as I see fit - which would be using social norms as a means of gatekeeping.

I agree thoroughly with the rest of your comment, and I hope this comment won't distract Iridianny from responding to what you said, but gatekeeping - at least the way it's used online - doesn't mean preventing discussion. It just means insisting on requirements defining a group or category, and ostracising those who don't fulfil those requirements from calling themselves part of that group. You could be gatekeeping without ever telling someone not to talk about something. Just telling him he's not the target audience that's meant to enjoy the game is technically gatekeeping - though it's a productive kind of gatekeeping.

Blip

Hinotori wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

Caww wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

.....Too bad he lied about that......

Really? You can have an opinion that AoC has not met your expectations but you lose credibility casting dispersion's on others.

He said it would be nearly identical to concept art, and then it's not even close. He doesn't even address it and say 'it will look more like my promise later,' or 'we changed our mind on that promise.' So not sure what else to call it.

He means in regards to content. Not the actual visual style.... look at these, id say theyre almost bang on their concept.

Anyone found these in game yet?😄

Uncommon Sense

At the end of the day, Whatever Steven thinks looks cool AF is what remains...

He's got the bankroll to make whatever he wants.

So you either accept the game for what it is and enjoy it or stay on the gaslight station to lame town...

Should I add "gatekeeping" to my comment to sound more important?

Like at what point did you look at the last 7 years or so of development with concept art and open studio development and think ...I'll join that games forum and piss in its cornflakes bowl because it needs to look like something else even though it had 1 of the most successful kick starter campaigns..let alone this is Alpha 2 playtesting and for what its worth the game looks fantastic for a rough cut on graphics fidelity...

Like how else would you make the human race look different while killing giant flowers, mushrooms, ogres and dragons my guy?

daveywavey

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Should I add "gatekeeping" to my comment to sound more important?

That sounds like it might be the sensible and gatekeepingy thing to do. I mean, who wouldn't want to increase their gatekeepingism? I imagine there's a whole scale of gatekeepingificationnessism.

Caww

the monthly sub. will be the prime gatekeeping mechanism for most players

Uncommon Sense

There are a lot of MMO with stylized graphics that flopped or never survived...Wildstar and Everquest Next for example.

If the gatekeeping gate had hinges it would be Unreal Engine 5.

When I look around ingame It's clearly not photo realistic nor is it Disney/Pixar.

So I would Like to think its somewhere between Conan, Willow, (Terry Gilliam Films) <-> Never ending Story/Dark Crystal (classic Jim Henson)

In other words Classic Western Dark Fantasy...

Azherae

Iridianny wrote: »

I’ve been following Ashes of Creation for years, and as someone who’s played MMOs my whole life, I’m really excited about the mechanics and systems they’ve promised. But… it’s ugly. When I first saw the concept art and heard Steven’s promise that the game would look nearly identical to it, I was excited. The early artwork was full of life, creativity, and potential. Too bad he lied about that. People aren’t going to spend hundreds of hours and dollars on a game that looks this uninspired. At least, not enough people to make the game last in the long run.
The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.
Ashes of Creation already feels outdated with its attempt at ‘realistic’ art. It’s not even good realism. It looks like a collection of generic fantasy assets. With several more years of development ahead, it’s only going to look worse by release if it stays on this path. Realism always ages quickly, leaving games looking unimmersive and boring. Shifting to a stylized art style now would give Ashes the personality and charm it needs to stay relevant for years. If they don’t pivot soon, the game risks getting lost in the sea of other fantasy games, struggling to attract and maintain the loyal audience that MMOs need to thrive.

While it's obviously sad that not everyone will get that perfect blend of 'systems they like' and 'visuals they like' in the MMO genre, there's nothing wrong with the Ashes art style really. It's, as said above, more or less classic 'Western' fantasy style, with all the bumps, grit, and wrinkles you'd expect from that art space.

If we look back at the Character Creator 'pitch' stream (I don't know what else to call these, besides 'advertisements' or 'concept art' but neither of those makes sense) we see an amazing and vibrant design language that could absolutely stand up for a long time, if they can deliver on it.

The 'sea of other fantasy games' isn't going to matter much more than it did during the late '10s when things were visually homogenizing for a bit.

And if it really bothers you that much, just wait longer. MMOs are probably having the start of their 'revival', where devs are coming together and paying attention to learning all the little arts and 'how to step around this pitfall of the genre' moments from the past.

There are other, more 'generic' parts of AoC that probably deserve more attention than its current visuals, and we know the Art and Design teams communicate well enough to work their way there, provided they have the talent to realize their 'design concept art' (I'll accept whatever name anyone wants to slap on this... you know what I mean if you've seen the character creator stream).

Carlisle

I believe the problem is'nt the map/world appearence, the characters make the game ugly, they have not enough saturation and nothing to catch the eye of the player. Usually in mmos the player look to the screen and the most appealing thing is his own character, at the moment the character is hiding in the screen in a ugly and weird way. hopefully they bring more appealing visual for the player in a near future

BlackBrony

Iridianny wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Iridianny wrote: »

The most successful games of all time are stylized — World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Breath of the Wild, Fortnite... These games stand out because their unique art styles give them character and make them recognizable.

In this regard, you are absolutely correct.

The question with that is - does Intrepid want the kind of audience that games with this stylized art style attracts?

The population you are referring to is the majority of the mmo genre player base. Do they want that audience? They better if they want their mmo to be long lasting and make money.

Hell no. Stop those wow FFXIV players from coming in here and demanding useless and baseless changes.