Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
They found the flaw. The flaw is that they didn't think griefers would pay that much money to be here, and ruin the spirit of cooperation. Their flaw was trusting the type of people who would stream snipe, and gank a newbie on the server over and over. That was their flaw at this moment, trusting people who think it is their right to grief others when the punishment systems haven't been brought fully online in an early Alpha stage. They thought they had a mature community that understood that bringing OOC vendettas into the game was improper. They are not wrong for attempting to protect their product, and brand. Hardcore players only make up 10 to 15% of most gaming communities. Most are Casual to Core players. If they think this place is a newbie gank fest, they won't come, and the game will be dead on delivery.
Should the protections have been in place? Yes. Should testers have been mature enough not to gank/grief a level 1 character? Yes. You are not Players, you are Testers. Start acting like it.
It appears that Steven did listen to feedback as he mentioned in a podcast back on Oct 12 before A2 started and well before Asmon logged in, that they were working on safeguards for protecting players on the onset of their experience from immediately having a griefing or PK encounter and that decisions had not yet been made on whether this would be implemented through a level gate or a pvp suppression gate in the starting zone. Steven also stated a week ago that the tech was already created, it just had not been implemented.
It might be okay to suggest that the situation with Asmon speeded up the implementation but I don't think it is fair to suggest that Steven said it would not happen and that it is only happening due to one streamer given the podcast a month ago stating it was coming and a recent interview saying the tech was there and not implemented.
Isn't the bottom line that this protection will be in place for new players and regardless of the timing, it is a good thing for everyone?
The technology is already working on the PTR.
And yes, you're right, it's good. But besides the goal itself, the reasons are also important.
But as I mentioned, it appears the reason for creating the safety mechanic for new characters came from older feedback as Steven indicated more than a month ago that it would be in game?
I have no idea if they planned to implement it last weekend and it didn't happen, this upcoming weekend or if it was planned for a later date and they decided to rush it due to the Asmon situation, I am just glad that they listened to the older feedback and created it so that it was ready to implement.
It's not some complicated technology. It's just a buff that is applied in a certain area when entering with specific parameters. It doesn't differ much mechanically from node buffs. So I don't know whether they made it in advance or in one day.
And I'm honestly happy about this buff. It's just that such coincidences and banning players who followed the game mechanics, I don't like very much. All this can be very much abused.
Perhaps so but at least we had confirmation on Oct 12th that it would be in game at some point and was not a reversal on a decision just for Asmon.
Just so I understand....
Your belief is that griefing is fine in the game or that someone that stream snipes to know a streamer will be logging in who then creates a character named KO followed by the streamers name and waits for him to first log in and repeatedly killing the player so they can do nothing in game is not griefing?
I believe that game mechanics should protect against griefing, not people's assumptions.
You say that someone sat and specifically waited for Asmongold to enter the game, followed him around to kill him, etc. Maybe it's true, maybe not. For the current system, all these actions are just player A level 1 killed player B level 1 in the starting zone.
Let's suppose you enter the game and see a crowd of players killing a first level player and you attack them in response, someone writes to you not to hit the bald guy, but they continue to kill you.
After all, Asmongold's defenders were killing everyone who tried to approach him, well, on those recordings that were in the videos, I'm not his fan and don't follow him.
In the end, you're banned. This situation can easily be seen in such a light too.
Griefing is bad, harsment is bad, stream sniping is bad. These are all bad actions and should be punished. But it's also bad when an admin punishes people without trial and due process and that one guy gets more attention than others is also bad and vice versa provokes people.
P.S. Interesting how many times he'll be killed after he reaches level 5.
Right, but this was not the situation, it was literally someone that followed the stream, knew he was logging in, made a character named KOAsmon, waited at the spawn point for asmon to log in, and relentlessly attacked and killed him every time he would respawn.
I would classify this person as a giefer and a fool in this situation.
I also disagree with you that a real griefer does not break the rules, it is very common for griefers to intentionally break rules (especially the rule of 'no griefing') in many of the games I have played. Developers cannot spell out every single possibility for griefing so they often place a 'not limited to' under the rule so that when someone kills someone for the 27th time 20 yards from the same spawn point declaring it is not griefing because they were not standing on the spawnpoint, bye bye.
I know how on one server they killed one person at a point more than 200 times and it wasn't griefing. But, by the way, it was caused by the GM's refusal to help with a system bug.
And if what you're saying really was the case, then Asmongold should be banned as a griefer.
For streamers, especially big streamers, there are many ways to avoid such an outcome, if you want to, of course. You can put an hour delay on the stream (although even a 15-minute delay would be enough).
You can even just start and move away from the starting area, incognito. Hide your nick, minimap, don't throw a parade.
But that's not the format of this streamer, whose goal is exactly such situations.
As an option, Asmongold could have written, "If you want, let's fight one on one." But as it turns out, someone kills Asmongold, and Asmongold's minions kill that person.
And here's the question of who is really the griefer. The one who was unhappy with this behavior and attacked, and was killed over and over again, and then was banned altogether. Or the one who provoked all this, earned millions of views on it, and got special treatment from the GM.
This situation is very and very controversial in every sense. And it's the developers' job to prevent such situations, not to be part of them. That's my opinion. And I don't like that. Other than that, I'm neutral in this situation. Deliberately orchestrated dramas are not what interests me.
P.S. If I make a character named "KOIts_me" and accidentally kill you in the game, will they ban me for griefing?
"It boosts engagement!" ~Mantra of the great YouTubers/Content Creators of the decade.
This all was totally worth $120, don't you think?
$120 is incredibly cheap for what Intrepid/Asmon got out of this. If it wasn't even either of those 'sides' involved in this (and I can absolutely believe it was not) then they just got all this for free. Maybe even at a profit if that player actually keeps going somehow.
Y'all see griefers, I see $_$.
If this actually did occur, it sounds like that game needs to add griefing under rules or define griefing a little better. If any player had a hand in causing another players death 200 times over a short timespan, even by using/manipulating an in-game mechanic, every game that I play would consider it griefing if documented and reported.
Huh???? 😲🤦♀️
The griefing occurred from the stream sniper that made a character just to repeatedly gate the streamers progress and hinder his ability to play the game.
This is odd victim blaming, to suggest streamers should not stream a game when it is what they do or that they have to delay it or they are a griefer is bizarre.
Streaming platforms like Twitch actually have rules in place against those that stream snipe including banning the account of players that use someone's stream for this sort of thing and you still want to blame the streamer and ban him? 🤦♀️
I have no clue what platform Asmon was streaming on (nor does it matter) but here is Twitch's policy where Asmon could actually get the guy banned from Twitch for stream sniping/harassment so if he did stream on Twitch, I hope he reports the guy and gets him banned from Twitch as well.
"Deliberate, non-consensual in-game stream sniping, including using another person’s stream to gain a competitive advantage in a multiplayer game and disrupt their broadcast."
If Asmon wanted to add a delay, that is fine, but to suggest he should be banned because he didn't and some idiot decided to stream snipe and grief him is a very bizarre take.
No, there really isn't any question in this situation. Love or hate streamers, the griefer is the person with access or information to his stream making a character just to repeatedly kill him every time he logged in. Steven made it very clear that this was absolutely griefing and it is his game so who better to go to for a definition.
?????? You want to compare one accidental kill with a person that watched a stream and intentionally repeatedly killed another player every time they logged in? yikes.
The fact that this conversation has taken a bizarre turn that makes it not only confusing but completely unproductive, tells me it is time to exit. Happy Ashes testing.
ANY toolbag spawn camping newbies should not only get banned but punch it the dangly bits every time they kill someone in a starter area.[/quote]
actual call to assaulting people over a video game imagine that coming from the PVE Andies side ya and PVPers are the problem
Help me here with your point (and I am praying to God that you are capable of having a rational discussion 🙏) as I do not watch Asmongold
Are you suggesting that Asmon should be griefed because it helps his viewership? Are you suggesting that Asmon wanted to be griefed because it helped his viewership? Are you suggesting Asmon set this up and the KOAmon dude repeatedly killing him was a buddy of his? Are you suggesting Steven had a hand in this to boost sales?....
While I am waiting for an answer, couldn't it be both?
I think this was damaging to Intrepid and may have helped Asmon. Steven seemed to be in full damage control mode after this with the interview and quick implementation of upcoming new player protection in start zones ect.
Hm, it would be a push to say I'm 'suggesting' it, but I can say that none of those things would surprise me.
I've definitely worked with people who do things exactly like this. But the whole point is that it isn't really provable. People who are bad at this are too obvious. No one with the type of skill to actually use this sort of thing to get an outcome they want, will ever let it be a thing that you can look at and definitively say 'that was a setup'.
You'd find out ten years later in an interview or something.
As for 'damage control mode', I'll just say that now, there's a lot more discussion of, and knowledge of, the fact that this change (which was already planned) is being made. So well played to someone, I guess. I don't really care who, winning is winning.
actual call to assaulting people over a video game imagine that coming from the PVE Andies side ya and PVPers are the problem [/quote
A game, No. I think stupid should hurt. Anyone spawn camping people at the starter point is stupid.
You think spawn camping new players as they log in is acceptable?
But you were certainly trying to say something, I just wanted you to clarify your point rather me guessing at it.
Can we start with this question, do you feel someone that watches a stream and gains knowledge the streamer is logging in to the game that creates a character with KO and the name of the streamer and sits waiting at the spawn point to repeatedly kill him is griefing?
We know according to Twitch's definition and Steven's definition it is, do you believe it is?
I am not asking if you feel it was arranged, just if the actions on their own equals griefing by your definition and if not, why not?
I agree, there is definitely a lot more discussion that the change is being made. I just think that the damage was done when people saw the clusterfuck mess of the ability for a new player to be spawn camped and that was all some might need to walk away and never look back to hear the discussion regarding the change.
I do not like nor watch Asmongold (I avoid streamer servers like the plague at launches), but while the controversy might have benefited him, I do see it being a negative for Intrepid because any press is good press might favor a streamer but typically does not favor a game developer. 😲
But that specific question I can definitely answer.
If that was the same person every time, then yes. But the problem I have with the situation (and I did not go deep into the analysis of it, nor do I expect Intrepid to release data on who specifically was banned) is that there isn't really a solution if 50 different people each kill Asmongold once.
And that's the true problem here (now solved I guess?)
If Asmongold logs onto a test server and 50% of the server hates streamers, what happens? Do they each get to kill him once? Does the tenth person get banned? Does 'everyone after Steven says something' get banned? The Blessing of the Sandal Lord protects Asmongold from PvP?
So I guess if I had to take a stance it would be that no, waiting for Asmon to log on with a name that indicates you are aiming to kill him on spawn and killing him once at spawn is not griefing from that account.
A guild declaring Asmon KOS because ... idk, the Guild on the server already waiting for their glorious Leader to join, is causing trouble and they want to prevent that guild from getting Asmongold over to some area to get some loot... borderline.
My understanding of this game is that if Asmongold wanted to play without this happening he could/would/should have (easily) arranged for a protection squad, because that is actually how you're supposed to play Ashes of Creation.
Unless Steven's intent was to either 'give Asmongold a special pass to show off systems without disruption' or 'to get more focus on the issue', I don't see why it came off the way it did. What I don't believe is that this was an entirely genuine engagement from both sides of this, because I prefer to believe they're both smart people.
Asmongold created a character, set up a guard, and his loyal minions killed people, interfering with their progress, and then his friend Steven started banning players who approached him. In my opinion, this is clear-cut griefing.
And I don't care who is right or wrong here. I just use facts that are easy to prove.
Where do you know that he was watching the broadcast? In my opinion, to repeat this, you would just have to create a character on this server.
And have a pleasant testing. But remember, Justice is depicted blind for a reason.
And yes, considering Asmongold a victim is quite a strange position. I think he's more than happy with the situation.
Oh yes, they also added protection at respawn points on the PTR. Let's continue the discussion; maybe they'll fix the corruption too.
You seemed a bit confused on what actually played out when we first spoke and now you seem to be the expert, did you watch the videos? 🤣I watched them, I saw asmon log in and repeatedly be targeted and a few players try to heal him, there was a little scuffling around but it looked like random players and players that had no clue what was going on or even how to target. Your dramatic suggestion he set up guard for his loyal minions to kill people is just that, drama.
This conversation is so bizarre that I am beginning to question whether you had some direct involvement with this situation.🤣
This is up to twitch to handle, not me. The fact that the guy was waiting for him to spawn in with a new character named KOAsmon and repeatedly targeted and killed him even after Steven asked for this to stop several times, demonstrates he had information from his stream. The Twitch guidelines do not mention that an offender has to be active in a stream for stream sniping to occur, only the deliberate use of information from a stream to disrupt a broadcast. Chances are he was in the stream but even if he got his info from Joe Schmoe whispering in his ear and created the character for griefing, still stream sniping as he used information from the stream to deliberately disrupt the broadcast.
Like I said, I don't even like the guy and this conversation is just not very productive as we are going in circles so unless you have a new point to make, just scroll up to one of my previous posts for a valid reply on anything else.
Pretty sure there’s a large enough group of followers of Asmongold who only follow to hate on him that this would happen anyway. So it’s hard to say whether a player with a name intended to show a griefer intention specifically against him is a coincidence (very likely not), a small group of Asmondgold haters (probable) or a coordinated setup to get massive attention. I’m of the belief it’s his haters, but do lean towards the possibility of a setup.
By the way, you can clearly see all of Steven's messages here. And this does not put him in the best light. If the game were really popular, I think journalists would have blown this up into a scandal: "Game creator threatens customers with bans to get favorable reviews from a streamer."
What does Twitch have to do with it? We're talking about a player being banned in the game. Was someone banned on Twitch?
P.S And yes, this discussion initially had little sense. Streamers will always receive special treatment, especially from small indie studios. Some guilds and players may also receive special treatment. Some servers get more attention from GMs than others. This may not sound very nice, but it's quite normal.
Twitch came into the conversation when you suggested that a player that had clear knowledge of when and where Asmon was logging in that had made a new character with the name KOAsmon that sat at the spawn in point waiting for him to appear and repeatedly killing him was not griefing and that Asmon should be banned instead. 🤦♀️
I simply stated that according to Steven's definition it was griefing and according to twitch's rules, it could be considered stream sniping and a bannable offense demonstrating your weird take on the griefer not griefing and suggestion that Asmon should be banned.
See, the circle is so dizzying, it is difficult to keep up. 😉
I have to admit, your comment that "perhaps this guy waited for Asmon in the game and followed him around and killed him may be true or may not be true' literally made me laugh out loud considering the ridiculousness of this where there is video (that you have supposedly seen) of someone named KOAsmon that was waiting on the spawn point shown repeatedly killing him. How you come up with a 'may be not true', just tells me how silly this entire conversation is so let's agree to give it a rest?
I always has been and always will be.
Ban them and move on.... laugh at their tears.
Do you even realize why he made them KoS? Because they mass reported him for no apparent reason. Ill add that I do not watch any streamer but I know of the details that surrounds this and you should do a little reading to find out yourself instead of popping off with some BS.