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Non-direct PvPing

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Comments

  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 19
    Noaani wrote: »
    Training mobs in many games is considered a valid skill. Every game I've played where it was considered a valid skill (EQ2 and Archeage were fine with it - which makes up 75% of my MMORPG gaming)

    That is the point, most games fail and Steven wanted something different which is why one of his main focuses is to prevent both griefing and PKing.

    It is Steven's intent to encourage open world PVP where players flag up against one another while also deterring nonconsensual pvp.

    If you look at Steven’s definition of PK which is what he has stated he wants to deter, it is a forced attack and kill on a non-combatant player that elects not to engage in fighting.

    If Steven’s intent is to minimize both griefing and PKing, I certainly do not believe that he would agree with you that repeatedly training mobs over non-combatants to kill them is a valid skill in Ashes. 😲

    In fact, Steven suggests that griefing is when one player impacts another players gameplay in a negative and harassing manner with something that is outside of the expectations of gameplay. As mobs are intended to be encountered and killed and not used by players to repetitively kill noncombatant players to secure a specific grind location, I think this could very well fall under AoC’s griefing definition.

    Now, with all of this said, it would be impossible to prevent this sort of griefing with in-game mechanics. There are ways to minimize it such as changing how mobs re-aggro after unleashing (which I would not be surprised if Ashes does), but no way to actually prevent it.

    Margaret did present a question to Steven in one interview where she described it as 'this is an exploit people have been asking about' and proceeded to ask the question where someone wanted to know if they would receive corruption if they damage a player but then let a mob they were fighting finish them off. Steven answered no but suggested that they will eventually make it so you cannot see another persons hit points outside your alliance, party, guild or raid group so a player would have no definitive knowledge of another players exact hit point values so when you do something 'sketch like that' where you bring them close to death and let the mob finish them off, you risk overhitting and gaining corruption.

    So in a situation of not intentionally training mobs to kill someone but simply engaging someone already fighting a mob, Steven refers to it as sketch and is looking at mechanics to prevent it.

    As someone that enjoys and plays games for PVP, I do not like odd mechanics like this as I think it is important on callouts and focusing low health players during group pvp so I am hoping he does not implement this or if he does, it will only apply to non-combatants.
    To me, calling training griefing is about as accurate as a PvP player in a capture the flag mode complain that the same person was always killing them when they were trying to capture said flag.

    ???? One is an actual intended mechanic of the game and the other is not. Your attempt at an analogy is not even close to apples and oranges, it is more like Volkswagens and ginkgo trees. 😲
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    edited November 19
    Its_Me wrote: »
    One is an actual intended mechanic of the game and the other is not.
    Both are intended mechanics.

    That is where your entire argument falls down.

    Edit to add;

    Your comment as to what Steven considers PK'ing is outright incorrect. That description is what it takes to earn corruption in Ashes.

    Griefing is defined specifically by Steven as impacting another player's gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. You may note the link there so you can check what it is I am saying, since it obviously conflicts with what you think.

    So, training mobs in to a player is - by definition - not griefing. Doing it 20 times in a row may be. However, Steven has also said in the past that killing a player 20 times in a row may be considered griefing - it isn't the individual act in either case that is griefing, it is the repetative nature of it.
  • YushaodoYushaodo Member, Alpha Two
    bruh .... solution is ..... get fkn gud ..... geez .... ......... jokes aside, solution is... still fkn get gud XD
  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 19
    Noaani wrote: »
    One is an actual intended mechanic of the game and the other is not.

    Both are intended mechanics.

    Mobs are not placed in game for players to drag over other players to skirt around gaining corruption for killing non-combatants so I would argue that this is not an intended mechanic.

    As previously mentioned, Steven even referred to players that simply attack someone that is actively engaged in fighting a mob and allowing the mob to kill them as 'sketch' so laughable you feel that someone intentionally dragging a group of mobs to kill a non-combatant to skirt around his mechanic of gaining corruption on a non-combatant PK is one of his 'intended mechanics'. 🤣
    Your comment as to what Steven considers PK'ing is outright incorrect. That description is what it takes to earn corruption in Ashes.

    It is not incorrect.

    Steven has stated that he is attempting to 'significantly' deter nonconsensual pvp and has also stated that his mechanics are based around disincentivizing a griefer AND PKer.

    Although PK just means player kill to many of us, Steven has repeatedly, in both print and interviews, referred to PK as a negative action that he wants to deter and the reference is always regarding the forced attack and killing of a non-combatant that will result in player corruption. Steven refers to combat between two combatants as PVP and the forced attack and killing of a non-combatant as a PK which he has repeatedly stated he wants to deter. As you seem to like the AoC wiki pages, I will attach a couple screen prints from this.

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    Griefing is defined specifically by Steven as impacting another player's gameplay in a negative and harassing and repetitive manner. You may note the link there so you can check what it is I am saying, since it obviously conflicts with what you think.

    ??? You provide a link supporting exactly what I stated and suggest that I am incorrect??? Odd strategy

    Here is my exact statement verbatim: "Steven suggests that griefing is when one player impacts another players gameplay in a negative and harassing manner with something that is outside of the expectations of gameplay. As mobs are intended to be encountered and killed and not used by players to repetitively kill noncombatant players to secure a specific grind location, I think this could very well fall under AoC’s griefing definition."




  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Its_Me wrote: »
    Here is my exact statement verbatim: "Steven suggests that griefing is when one player impacts another players gameplay in a negative and harassing manner with something that is outside of the expectations of gameplay. As mobs are intended to be encountered and killed and not used by players to repetitively kill noncombatant players to secure a specific grind location, I think this could very well fall under AoC’s griefing definition."
    Yes, that is indeed your statement.

    But it is still wrong.

    If someone is being killed repeatidly by mobs being trained on to them, then they should learn how to deal with that situation rather than just die to it again and again. If you are dying to it, you are actually dying to your own lack of ability, or lack of knowledge about the game. If you were good, you would use that mob train and send it straight back to the people that started it.

    That is why it isn't griefing. it isn't unexpected (it happens in many MMORPG's - you should expect it, it is on you if it isn't), and there are steps a player can take to prevent it.

    As to your wiki quotes, you should probably do more "research" than just reading the wiki. Pulling a quote when Steven is talking about why he doesn't want to add nodes for corrupt players in to this conversation is pointless - other than as something to point at to illustrate to you perhaps why you are so wrong here.
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