Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Concerned about Tanks
Yepod
Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Hello fellow adventurers,
I wanted to open a discussion about the future of the Tank class in Ashes of Creation, as I believe it's facing a unique set of challenges that could affect its long-term viability.
One of my main concerns revolves around the penalty system in the game. As we all know, when you die in Ashes of Creation, you incur experience debt, which slows down your progression, and you also drop a significant amount of resources. For Tanks, this risk feels disproportionately high compared to other classes.
Tanks are designed to hold aggro and take the brunt of the damage, but this role inherently makes us reliant on the performance of our team. If the DPS isn’t dealing damage quickly enough or the support isn’t keeping us alive, we’re often the first to go down. Unlike DPS or support classes, we don’t have much opportunity to disengage and save ourselves, as running away would mean abandoning our role and likely causing a team wipe. Meanwhile, other classes can often flee from combat relatively unscathed, saving their materials and avoiding the harshest penalties.
This creates a situation where Tanks bear a disproportionate burden for team failures. Not only are we punished more heavily in terms of progression and resource loss, but this could also discourage players from sticking with the Tank role long-term. It’s a pivotal role in group content, and I worry that fewer people will want to play it if the risk-to-reward ratio isn’t addressed.
I realize that some seasoned Tank players might not see this as a big issue—they’re likely accustomed to the risks and have built up the skills and strategies to minimize them. However, for the average player or someone new to tanking, the learning curve combined with the steep penalties could be discouraging. John Doe trying out Tanking for the first time in Ashes of Creation may find the experience overwhelming. Without the right support from their team, they could end up feeling like the penalties outweigh the enjoyment, and we might see fewer players willing to step into this crucial role.
I’d love to hear the community’s thoughts on this. Are there ways the game could mitigate these risks for Tanks without undermining the challenge? For example:
Could Tanks have a reduced penalty on death due to their role?
Should there be better ways to reward players who play Tanks, balancing out the higher risk?
Or perhaps introduce mechanics that allow Tanks to escape or survive more effectively when the team fails?
Tanks are the backbone of group content, and I hope we can find some solutions to make the experience rewarding without making us feel like walking targets for punishment but still keeping the fear of dying.
I wanted to open a discussion about the future of the Tank class in Ashes of Creation, as I believe it's facing a unique set of challenges that could affect its long-term viability.
One of my main concerns revolves around the penalty system in the game. As we all know, when you die in Ashes of Creation, you incur experience debt, which slows down your progression, and you also drop a significant amount of resources. For Tanks, this risk feels disproportionately high compared to other classes.
Tanks are designed to hold aggro and take the brunt of the damage, but this role inherently makes us reliant on the performance of our team. If the DPS isn’t dealing damage quickly enough or the support isn’t keeping us alive, we’re often the first to go down. Unlike DPS or support classes, we don’t have much opportunity to disengage and save ourselves, as running away would mean abandoning our role and likely causing a team wipe. Meanwhile, other classes can often flee from combat relatively unscathed, saving their materials and avoiding the harshest penalties.
This creates a situation where Tanks bear a disproportionate burden for team failures. Not only are we punished more heavily in terms of progression and resource loss, but this could also discourage players from sticking with the Tank role long-term. It’s a pivotal role in group content, and I worry that fewer people will want to play it if the risk-to-reward ratio isn’t addressed.
I realize that some seasoned Tank players might not see this as a big issue—they’re likely accustomed to the risks and have built up the skills and strategies to minimize them. However, for the average player or someone new to tanking, the learning curve combined with the steep penalties could be discouraging. John Doe trying out Tanking for the first time in Ashes of Creation may find the experience overwhelming. Without the right support from their team, they could end up feeling like the penalties outweigh the enjoyment, and we might see fewer players willing to step into this crucial role.
I’d love to hear the community’s thoughts on this. Are there ways the game could mitigate these risks for Tanks without undermining the challenge? For example:
Could Tanks have a reduced penalty on death due to their role?
Should there be better ways to reward players who play Tanks, balancing out the higher risk?
Or perhaps introduce mechanics that allow Tanks to escape or survive more effectively when the team fails?
Tanks are the backbone of group content, and I hope we can find some solutions to make the experience rewarding without making us feel like walking targets for punishment but still keeping the fear of dying.
2
Comments
On top of that Vengeance skill is completely useless with it's 0,1/0,2/0,3% temporary health (or shield). It should give ATLEAST 1.0/2.0/3.0%, it feels like a typo from Intrepid. Gaining 1% max health + level will give level 20 (with around 4k health) 60/100/140 temporary heal for 33 courage.
Both of these will easily help us in reacting to death scenario and in the same time reduce our death amounts without breaking completely our survivability in terms of PvP/PvE.
It will also make use of our Courage (other than Ground Pound and Fortify) plus let us spend Shake it Off additional point (it's not often worth to take besides some pvp actions)
The issue you bring up further highlights how unfair the current distribution is. Tanks incur the most exp debt which will cause them to fall behind other group members in levels, which will further cause them to get less exp from the group content and so fall even further behind. It's a vicious spiral.
I'd like to see:
-Cleric Resurrection recovering some of the exp debt, starting at a lower % and working to a higher % as they increase level. For instance, at level 10, it restores 25% exp debt, at 20, 50% exp debt, etc.
-More items drops that translate into monetary compensation in groups that won't just disappear on a string of bad pulls like glint does. Does not need to be gear, it can be flavor items like goblin ears and wolf teeth, whatever, just something I can sell at the end of a group grinding session.
-Humanoids should also carry some amount of coins. Not a lot! Maybe just 1/2 of what the glint they drop might sell for, but *something* that will not disappear as I continue to die repeatedly because of group dynamics.
There's probably plenty more options that can help out overall that won't give tanks an unreasonable "well my job is hard so I just don't suffer the same penalties" but will also at least make it so I can pay my repair bills without begging my group for money. Glint being the main source of income just kind of doesn't make sense to me, given it's so intangible and tanks will simply be unable to access it the same way as everyone else.
I think that implementing a little bit better loot tables will fix that issue. For now you either drop an item every 20-100 mobs or you don't drop anything. Mobs could drop some common gear (early) just to vendor or deconstruct them, better mobs could drop green gear more often (like 25+ mobs) while we are already full on green gear anyway we are looking for blue gear at max level it could help making our gold pockets bigger or let others that doesn't spend that much gold deconstruct these items when they will implement this option.
I think that you do have to accept those risks when being a tank. However, I do think that tanks should have the utility to avoid death. From the groups I've been in, your typical tank stands there and absorbs dmg, but often die because they aren't able to really kite (that and not much spell mitigation). The tank really needs some level of cc - whether it's stun, slow, or more defensives - to be able to kite/run away from battle.
Absolutely you have to be able to take those risks when playing a tank. This I agree with 100%, however since the loss is a lot more extreme in this game compared to games like WoW, ESO, Archage even there is a bigger "should I" when deciding to play tank. If the answer is no most of the time we will have a major shortage on Tanks at later stages in the game. If you think searching for Tanks in WoW is bad... wait until you have to find one in AoC the way things look today. @glugmonger
I do believe that the revive by a cleric decreasing debt exp would be a great idea since we are mostly talking about Tanks dying in a group formation which most of the times will include clerics. This however does not solve the resource loss. Tank changes doesn't have to be huge, but multiple small changes like the revive one can suffice in the end. Great suggestion! @Fippy