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Duping on all servers - WIPE pls?

2

Comments

  • MorduneMordune Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    If they wipe at every hickup you will lose allot of testers.

    If this were true then those same people would not come back in December and would long have abandoned the PTR. Also this is not a hiccup or a bump in the road, this is more akin the wheels coming off the caravan and the canopy is on fire.

  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    If they wipe at every hickup you will lose allot of testers.

    Its not every hick-up. This would be 1 substantial instance in phase 1. Seems pretty good to me, considering they even warned us of the possibility of wipes throughout testing ahead of time.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Mordune wrote: »
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    If they wipe at every hickup you will lose allot of testers.

    If this were true then those same people would not come back in December and would long have abandoned the PTR. Also this is not a hiccup or a bump in the road, this is more akin the wheels coming off the caravan and the canopy is on fire.

    Talk to the A1 testers. Every wipe they lost more and more testers. Say that does not matter. But it does to IS. They said themselves, their goal is to not wipe. I stand by their sentiment and agree with it wholeheartedly. If they need to that's their call.
  • kadimirkadimir Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    the issue is - all data going forward is tainted data by dupers.

    I'd actually would like to know, organically how long building takes with efficient mayors and non efficient mayors.

    this, exactly this - is one of my biggest issues. Suddenly springing forth from the stone age on the 10th day en masse on resna. Sounds like we werent the only server to suddenly hit an enlightment period.
    PvP focused: TERA / Wildstar / Aion
    PvE focused: WoW / FFXIV / Lineage II
    Sandbox: Ultima Online / Darkfall / Mortal Online
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  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    No point let it ride till the 20th of december its a whole 12 games days the dupe only realu meand people will be in legendary lvl 1 gear (maybe lvl 10 if people managed to get high quality resource on T2/3 mats on the server that happen to have the benches for the tools) and gold but that only buys you a mount atm basicly so thats not a big deal either.

    May aswell let it ride till the 20th and see what testing data comeso ut of it than reset the progress for 12 playable days
  • MorduneMordune Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Veeshan wrote: »

    May aswell let it ride till the 20th and see what testing data comeso ut of it than reset the progress for 12 playable days

    As we are at the 1/2 way point for this phase, using your same logic, a wipe would only remove the progress of 12 playable days. Less actually because of the DDoS attacks.

    A clean slate would at least let us see how all the updates would impact the leveling curve, including the new starter experience updates.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    people hanging on to their dear exploited pixels.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • NatharielNathariel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    people hanging on to their dear exploited pixels.

    you are looking the things only from 1 points. Do you know how long take for the people test the build and understand what are good and what no?!?! for example like is now the city and crafting station has no meaning to stay because now we have some apprendice workbench and we can craft lvl 10 items that are most of them usell because most of the people are lvl 20/25. But we need also to test what is not good and must be change or correct with more high build , if they make while we can't test more the build in city because i take 3 week to start to make the new build. More things we test better is for the test after the wipe of 20. I think the big reason they will wipe the 20 is because the strucure of the pg change with the new features they will release.

    LA MANO NERA - Gilda Italiana - Sei pronto ad unirti all'Ordine della Mano Nera? Questa può essere la tua occasione
    CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
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  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Steven has already stated that this test is about performance, stability and networking and that production focus would come down the road so not certain a wipe due to duped items will be carried out for this segment of testing.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    No point let it ride till the 20th of december its a whole 12 games days the dupe only realu meand people will be in legendary lvl 1 gear (maybe lvl 10 if people managed to get high quality resource on T2/3 mats on the server that happen to have the benches for the tools) and gold but that only buys you a mount atm basicly so thats not a big deal either.

    The complaint is that people have been duping the gold and legendary materials and I have seen screenshots of inventories full of these materials so legendary lvl 10 gear is possible.

    As far as minimizing the impact of entire parties and/or guilds running around with level 10 gear, here is a pic that someone posted in the Resna channel when someone made fun of the threat of low level duped gear:

    5livzt0s2gq3.png

  • NatharielNathariel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Its_Me wrote: »
    Steven has already stated that this test is about performance, stability and networking and that production focus would come down the road so not certain a wipe due to duped items will be carried out for this segment of testing.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    No point let it ride till the 20th of december its a whole 12 games days the dupe only realu meand people will be in legendary lvl 1 gear (maybe lvl 10 if people managed to get high quality resource on T2/3 mats on the server that happen to have the benches for the tools) and gold but that only buys you a mount atm basicly so thats not a big deal either.

    The complaint is that people have been duping the gold and legendary materials and I have seen screenshots of inventories full of these materials so legendary lvl 10 gear is possible.

    As far as minimizing the impact of entire parties and/or guilds running around with level 10 gear, here is a pic that someone posted in the Resna channel when someone made fun of the threat of low level duped gear:
    I can undestand the disappoint of the duplicate eq, but it's not a reason in this wave that finish in 4 weedend to wipe now and don't permit the test also the city builds. I prefer gather and craft and to can try make lvl 10 item we need to work 3/4 week, just to start with a wipe we can't test anything, you can't discover many bug, the developer already fixed the duplicate problem, we need to focus to check other bug to make the game work better and also to improve what in the game not work good.
    LA MANO NERA - Gilda Italiana - Sei pronto ad unirti all'Ordine della Mano Nera? Questa può essere la tua occasione
    CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
    ya0bgx8sxy7p.jpg
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Mordune wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »

    May aswell let it ride till the 20th and see what testing data comeso ut of it than reset the progress for 12 playable days

    As we are at the 1/2 way point for this phase, using your same logic, a wipe would only remove the progress of 12 playable days. Less actually because of the DDoS attacks.

    A clean slate would at least let us see how all the updates would impact the leveling curve, including the new starter experience updates.
    Its_Me wrote: »
    Steven has already stated that this test is about performance, stability and networking and that production focus would come down the road so not certain a wipe due to duped items will be carried out for this segment of testing.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    No point let it ride till the 20th of december its a whole 12 games days the dupe only realu meand people will be in legendary lvl 1 gear (maybe lvl 10 if people managed to get high quality resource on T2/3 mats on the server that happen to have the benches for the tools) and gold but that only buys you a mount atm basicly so thats not a big deal either.

    The complaint is that people have been duping the gold and legendary materials and I have seen screenshots of inventories full of these materials so legendary lvl 10 gear is possible.

    As far as minimizing the impact of entire parties and/or guilds running around with level 10 gear, here is a pic that someone posted in the Resna channel when someone made fun of the threat of low level duped gear:

    5livzt0s2gq3.png

    i put maybe level 10 cause it depends on the server like rezna for example had 0 crafting benches to even make apprentice tools let along hit a legendary proc on a harvest until the very last day of this weekend.
    I know other server are ahead however but it depended on ur server wether or not u could have it.

    Tbh if anything they should just add a vendor that sells T1/T2 legendary resources and glint for remaning testing phase this balances out the duping issue between player base and testing can continue since wiping would cause alot of people to be like welp ill just take a break and wait for the 20th of december
    Doing this would allow people to test our higher teir gameplay aswell as crafting systems easier. You will probaly increase the amount of people willing to go corrupt too though however would test the pvp system more too :p
  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »

    i put maybe level 10 cause it depends on the server like rezna for example had 0 crafting benches to even make apprentice tools let along hit a legendary proc on a harvest until the very last day of this weekend.
    I know other server are ahead however but it depended on ur server wether or not u could have it.

    I wasn't referencing the level 10 as much as the 'no big deal' attached to it. Just wanted to show the difference a lvl 10 legendary can make.

    Resna had guilds hoarding and duplicating materials and gold and intentionally not building to prevent rival guilds from access to gear until they were ready so you saw things go up quickly last weekend. I saw pictures of entire inventories of legendary materials so even with just one acquired, when you encourage your entire guild to dupe all weekend before a fix is implemented, those legendary materials can build up quickly. 😲
  • SlipreeSlipree Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    An arguement for why you should wipe DEV

    1) most players who did not dupe are going to feel left behind and not bother with alpha, thus you're losing data.

    2) most people not gonna bother to pvp since the dupers managed to secure BiS stuff from it or faster mounts, making others not want to ever participate and thus you're losing data gathering from it as well

    3) the focus of A1 is server and stability overall prior before Phase 2 launch on Dec 20th which will be a new wave of players.
    Let's put it to the test now with wave 1 and wave 2 on a wipe before dec 20th. More data to collect.

    See how servers organically respond to the past month of patches, since there is no plunder quests, bunch of quest fixes, players having an understanding of nodes/building progression now - it would be provide a whole new data for you guys as well. Re-visiting and having more eyes on players now interacting with questing and events.

    How or where will the playerbase move to grind, which work server will be under load during the initial 10 level stage.

    I don't see the negatives for the DEVS perspective. I am sure many on the player side will find "negatives" because their pixels will be gone before they even get to use it - boo hoo, ty for exploiting, let's patch it n wipe.

    I think it's very beneficial to have multiple wipes tbh. I believe once we enter beta, to maybe have 1 wipe in between b4 launch but until then, having multi wipes is fine. It also allows playerbase to try different classes from scratch as well w/o feeling "left behind". There are also a lot of net postives for the playerbase if they look for it and think bigger picture.

    so, we can haz a wipe please?

    its alpha bud. man up and play, or dont. I have never duped in any game, or cheated, and i dont care. I will still kill those kids that need to cheat to get an advantage. Here we have the victimhood mentality rearing its ugly head again. I guess kids with poor parents should quit at life too, since they dont have the same advantages. It is a game. It is for fun. Alpha is for testing bugs, LIKE DUPING, so they wont work when game goes live.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    Its_Me wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »

    i put maybe level 10 cause it depends on the server like rezna for example had 0 crafting benches to even make apprentice tools let along hit a legendary proc on a harvest until the very last day of this weekend.
    I know other server are ahead however but it depended on ur server wether or not u could have it.

    I wasn't referencing the level 10 as much as the 'no big deal' attached to it. Just wanted to show the difference a lvl 10 legendary can make.

    Resna had guilds hoarding and duplicating materials and gold and intentionally not building to prevent rival guilds from access to gear until they were ready so you saw things go up quickly last weekend. I saw pictures of entire inventories of legendary materials so even with just one acquired, when you encourage your entire guild to dupe all weekend before a fix is implemented, those legendary materials can build up quickly. 😲

    Cant haord lvl 10 materials if u dont build the bench to make the tool to harvest them, they have legendary lvl 1 mats but u need lvl 10 resources to make something relevant (outside of caravans which seem to be heavy T1 mats still in alot of it) weapons and armor need T2 or T3 mats which couldnt be aquired without the bench to make a tool which didnt exsist till the end of the weekend test and even then they needed to proc a good quality drop to dupe it, i think the only bench that got up in time pretty much was the alchemy which i think give sickle, stone work was being built but not sure if it finished in time and i think lumber was started but not completed before server down
  • Tahiti02Tahiti02 Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    An arguement for why you should wipe DEV

    1) most players who did not dupe are going to feel left behind and not bother with alpha, thus you're losing data.

    2) most people not gonna bother to pvp since the dupers managed to secure BiS stuff from it or faster mounts, making others not want to ever participate and thus you're losing data gathering from it as well

    3) the focus of A1 is server and stability overall prior before Phase 2 launch on Dec 20th which will be a new wave of players.
    Let's put it to the test now with wave 1 and wave 2 on a wipe before dec 20th. More data to collect.

    See how servers organically respond to the past month of patches, since there is no plunder quests, bunch of quest fixes, players having an understanding of nodes/building progression now - it would be provide a whole new data for you guys as well. Re-visiting and having more eyes on players now interacting with questing and events.

    How or where will the playerbase move to grind, which work server will be under load during the initial 10 level stage.

    I don't see the negatives for the DEVS perspective. I am sure many on the player side will find "negatives" because their pixels will be gone before they even get to use it - boo hoo, ty for exploiting, let's patch it n wipe.

    I think it's very beneficial to have multiple wipes tbh. I believe once we enter beta, to maybe have 1 wipe in between b4 launch but until then, having multi wipes is fine. It also allows playerbase to try different classes from scratch as well w/o feeling "left behind". There are also a lot of net postives for the playerbase if they look for it and think bigger picture.

    so, we can haz a wipe please?

    Why are you concerned about this? This is an alpha test. Nobody is "behind' on anything when the servers will get wiped on Dec 20th anyways. Try and enjoy the test, report bugs, and be less concerned that "John" is ahead because of a dupe on network test of an alpha test.
  • MayhemuXaMayhemuXa Member, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    MayhemuXa wrote: »
    I don't care about the duping at its point of the game - just another test for them to learn from.

    BUT - I still want to test more than server stability. I would also like to test Crafting and at this point, the only ones to get to do that are the dupers/MEGA guilds - So either change the XP on Crafting or resource requirements or resource abundance - Especially COPPER.

    Let us TEST - even with 15 guys supporting me, getting one craft like Arcane Engineering to Apprentice is way too much work maybe even improbable by the 20th and a reset. The only people learning from Phase 1 are the MEGA Guilds.

    I have nothing against MEGA guilds - I have seen them before in tons of other games since UO but this is testing - let us test

    Semper Fi

    yes and no.
    the issue is - all data going forward is tainted data by dupers.

    I'd actually would like to know, organically how long building takes with efficient mayors and non efficient mayors. We thought we knew the streamer server was the crafting server, but they were the ones to have found the bug first and used to get all their shit up. anythign they wanted to test/craft is also pointless since it was all made by duped legendaries

    Tainted Data; hmmm not sure about that. The taint is supposed to be a red flag caught by the Devs extensive monitoring tools it bragged about in at least 1 video. So that in itself is a "test". But I also get the point you're making as well.

    Duping in general: At some point soon it will become a bannable offense /Shrug and good

    On Resna myself and it is a cluster for getting anything done to progress nodes, etc. As far as the efficiency of the nodes/Mayors go.... I think the current data Resna is showing is quite a bit and pretty useful especially when compared to servers that came up 2 weeks later.

    Again, the ones that had prior game knowledge are the same ones in the MEGA guilds - again fine, we will all catch up sooner or later on the knowledge and Guirilla warfare is nothing new. I just want to be able to slowly catch up on that knowledge and "Test" crafting which is right now far from probable due do to the reasons above.
  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Veeshan wrote: »

    Cant haord lvl 10 materials if u dont build the bench to make the tool to harvest them, they have legendary lvl 1 mats but u need lvl 10 resources to make something relevant (outside of caravans which seem to be heavy T1 mats still in alot of it) weapons and armor need T2 or T3 mats which couldnt be aquired without the bench to make a tool which didnt exsist till the end of the weekend test and even then they needed to proc a good quality drop to dupe it, i think the only bench that got up in time pretty much was the alchemy which i think give sickle, stone work was being built but not sure if it finished in time and i think lumber was started but not completed before server down

    Not sure how they acquired the legendary materials for duping, just saying I saw pictures of the duped inventories.

    I know there is a slight chance for legendary materials to drop from both mobs and harvesting and we have seen this.

    According to AoC wiki, legendary equipment is only supposed to be dropped by legendary world bosses and yet, I saw a piece drop from a regular higher level mob. With this being alpha, not even going to begin to guess how materials were acquired for the duping, only that I have seen evidence of it happening so I hope that the devs do follow through and pull the logs and data and handle the people abusing this.




  • ShoklenShoklen Member, Alpha Two
    We are only a few weeks in, now would be the time to wipe if the duping has been fixed. Sure there is a wipe dec 20th but that's still 4 1/2 weeks away.

    I'd be in favor for a wipe this weekend.
  • Ebro EpaitoEbro Epaito Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Only a real issue after it goes live....otherwise its just a whine fest....who cares, it wipes in a few weeks. Have fun, help the devs with solid feedback...move on...
  • MayhemuXaMayhemuXa Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Hi
  • MayhemuXaMayhemuXa Member, Alpha Two
    Veeshan wrote: »
    Mordune wrote: »
    Veeshan wrote: »

    May aswell let it ride till the 20th and see what testing data comeso ut of it than reset the progress for 12 playable days

    As we are at the 1/2 way point for this phase, using your same logic, a wipe would only remove the progress of 12 playable days. Less actually because of the DDoS attacks.

    A clean slate would at least let us see how all the updates would impact the leveling curve, including the new starter experience updates.
    Its_Me wrote: »
    Steven has already stated that this test is about performance, stability and networking and that production focus would come down the road so not certain a wipe due to duped items will be carried out for this segment of testing.
    Veeshan wrote: »
    No point let it ride till the 20th of december its a whole 12 games days the dupe only realu meand people will be in legendary lvl 1 gear (maybe lvl 10 if people managed to get high quality resource on T2/3 mats on the server that happen to have the benches for the tools) and gold but that only buys you a mount atm basicly so thats not a big deal either.

    The complaint is that people have been duping the gold and legendary materials and I have seen screenshots of inventories full of these materials so legendary lvl 10 gear is possible.

    As far as minimizing the impact of entire parties and/or guilds running around with level 10 gear, here is a pic that someone posted in the Resna channel when someone made fun of the threat of low level duped gear:

    5livzt0s2gq3.png

    i put maybe level 10 cause it depends on the server like rezna for example had 0 crafting benches to even make apprentice tools let along hit a legendary proc on a harvest until the very last day of this weekend.
    I know other server are ahead however but it depended on ur server wether or not u could have it.

    Tbh if anything they should just add a vendor that sells T1/T2 legendary resources and glint for remaning testing phase this balances out the duping issue between player base and testing can continue since wiping would cause alot of people to be like welp ill just take a break and wait for the 20th of december
    Doing this would allow people to test our higher teir gameplay aswell as crafting systems easier. You will probaly increase the amount of people willing to go corrupt too though however would test the pvp system more too :p

    More than I was requesting but totally good with this suggestion as well. The last game I seriously "Tested/Played" was Crowfall and this was done several times for "testing" purposes although if memory serves it was on the PTR that everyone had access to. Being we have a scheduled wipe coming I see no reason not to implement.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nathariel wrote: »
    novercalis wrote: »
    people hanging on to their dear exploited pixels.

    you are looking the things only from 1 points. Do you know how long take for the people test the build and understand what are good and what no?!?! for example like is now the city and crafting station has no meaning to stay because now we have some apprendice workbench and we can craft lvl 10 items that are most of them usell because most of the people are lvl 20/25. But we need also to test what is not good and must be change or correct with more high build , if they make while we can't test more the build in city because i take 3 week to start to make the new build. More things we test better is for the test after the wipe of 20. I think the big reason they will wipe the 20 is because the strucure of the pg change with the new features they will release.

    i still dont understand your broken english.

    regardless - AOC wont be ready for release for 2-3 years. test building has LOTS OF TIME, now isnt the time for that. cringe trying to be "On TOP" in a alpha stage. Cringe for "Min/Max" during alpha.

    there is PLENTY of time to test. Phase 1 = SERVER STABILITY. Wipe and put all the players back into Lionhold and make sure we dont crash it, it's playable, so when Dec 20th come, the population will be doubled and the server is ready for it.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Its_MeIts_Me Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Only a real issue after it goes live....otherwise its just a whine fest....who cares, it wipes in a few weeks. Have fun, help the devs with solid feedback...move on...

    Exploiting in test is issue enough that Steven has warned people not to take advantage of exploits and we were informed that logs and data would be looked at and players doing bad things with these exploits could face a suspension or ban. Exploiting IS an issue in test and AoC is not the only game that will suspend or ban for it.

    Do I think the servers should be wiped with less than a month to go before a wipe, no this alpha is focused on stability and performance, but exploiting bugs during test IS an issue and should be addressed so please stop trying to minimize it into a whine fest.
  • BRAD_AoCBRAD_AoC Member, Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    Nathariel wrote: »
    you wrong, they don't need wipe on the server, maybe you don't know but there are the PTR where we take wipe most of the week and sometime also more time for week so the information for the stability with the wipe they already have each week. The server they need to test all the other mechanic of the game.

    If this is the kind of format Alpha 1 testers like you use for feedback posts on the PTR, we're completely doomed. Do people not read over the stuff they're writing these days? Insanity.
    At the end of the day, it's night.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    5livzt0s2gq3.png

    Just look at this... The dupers didn’t even bother to enchant this monster. That’s how overpowered it already is.

    Imagine getting one-shot by this thing while trying to do literally anything this weekend and thinking: "Well, at least they didn’t wipe the server."

    I would rather know I am getting one-shot by an honest man.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited November 20
    XD
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • RuerikRuerik Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    At the end of the day it comes down to which path gets Intrepid more data for their phase 1 goals (performance and stability)

    Which means they want the servers to have a lot of users online all the time.
    Both paths kind of suck, which one makes less people stop logging on.
    Wiping? Or letting dozens of players with full legendary kit (possibly also enchanted since its only level 10) wreck the balance and fun for hundreds of others.

    Kind of hard to tell which way is best. A wipe wont stop me from testing, it will just change my focus on what I try out in the last four weeks.
    iHFwzm7.png
  • Uncommon SenseUncommon Sense Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'll just be rolling lvl 5 alts and going on adventures to find bugs and testing early questing. I see no point putting the grind with a full server wipe a handful of weekends away.

    OK so there was a DUPE great we found it...better now than later. If the Exploiters are put on Notice than also great it means Intrepid a taking this issue seriously.

    I say just roll with the over baked economy untill the wipe and hope no more dupes are found early/at all
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This round of testing is mostly about the server tech. We don't need a reset to get that done. This maybe be an issue if this was phase 2. In the words of Elsa. Let it go.
  • kadimirkadimir Member, Alpha Two
    MayhemuXa wrote: »
    Tainted Data; hmmm not sure about that.
    .. not sure huh?
    MayhemuXa wrote: »
    On Resna myself and it is a cluster for getting anything done to progress nodes, etc. As far as the efficiency of the nodes/Mayors go.... I think the current data Resna is showing is quite a bit and pretty useful especially when compared to servers that came up 2 weeks later.

    We're on the same server, it takes 2 brain cells to be "sure" about the tainted data. We he 0 lvl 10 crafting stations. Suddenly mid weekend we get people offering to buy stuff for 200G in global, shortly after things start springing up all over the nodes. I think it's VERY clear that any data on difficulty getting stations online has been brutally tainted. Had it not been for duping, our server would still be in the stone age. instead well be trying to play catch up with people locking down grind spots with weapons that have nearly 4 times the power of our lvl 10 green scraps we get along the way to 20. Those players will also have very little to do, as their gear is already ridiculous, no need to grind for more - so they'll come gank everyone else who didn't exploit early and exploit often.
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